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General Motors discussions
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GM will probably opt out and put the 3.8 Generation 50 in the next Cadillac CTS :sick:
Rocky
Oh - just that I appreciate the rebound of Cadillac, while I think Pontiac has slipped into the ditch, personally. Become irrelevant. That division should be dropped, and the Solstice sold by Saturn. IMO, of course.
If SAAB were managed by Cadillac it may become better than Volvo - but if the Pontiac division handles it, look for a SAAB minivan in your showroom soon. :P
Rocky
Rocky
Hyundai is going to have to pull off one heck of a marketing coupe to sell a car over 30k in any sort of numbers. Lexi, Infiniti and Acura spent years paying dues before they hit the big time.
As for the G35, I appear to recall thread after thread saying how the Infinit was going to best the CTS and so much blah, blah, blah.
Even without a coupe, a problem that the spy photos suggest may be rectified, the G35 never outsold the CTS.
Rocky
GM is advancing the 3.6. It will continue making the LS engines.
The Sigma platform was designed for the OHV high output engines. The Vette engine, while clearly fun, is not a perfect match for the sigma.
I expect that GM has tweaked the sigma 1.5 platform that will base the next Gen CTS. Not only will accomodate the Z06 engine, it will significantly outperform it.
In my opinion, it makes a lot more sense for GM to spend resources making the next Gen CTS perfect than tweaking the existing CTS-V when you already have a fire breather on the market as it is.
Nothing in the linked blog says there will not be a 2nd Generation CTS-V. Just that the current CTS-V will not be upgraded.
Rocky
Are you saying the new CTS is canceled that was shown on TV? I doubt it.
First, re-read the linked Blog. The CTS will be updated. And the update will come next year.
I did not watch the 60 Minutes Program. Every report I saw about the 60 minutes segment however (and I have seen dozens, both professional and internet buffs) talked about the forth coming next generation blog.
Months ago there were reports GM was going to up the ante with the CTS-V, adding a larger engine and stronger suspension. That is what the linked blog says will get canceled.
And frankly, that makes sense. The next generation CTS is coming out. You want to concentrate on nailing the launch.
Then, much as BMW does with the M Series, about a year later Caddy will come out with a new CTS-V based on the new platform.
Respectfully, you are getting the report all wrong. I am not sure what else I can do for you. Other than to repeat: GM is not going up date the existing CTS-V. It will update the CTS. There will be a 2nd generation CTS-V.
Rocky
:sick:
Rocky
Fast and with a luxurious interior.
Plus... VW will actually mail to you a 'Fast'.
:P
I still don't understand this Fast deal. I saw it on the VW website and your right it looks like a gremilin.
Rocky
Rocky
GM layoffs cut white collar - engineers among others - to the bone. All available remaining engineers are probably busy sweating last minute details on the main line CTS. One hopes they are getting it right.
Afterwards, they can get busy on the next V. One hopes the Corvette Z06 crew have a big honking engine waiting for them.
Will be interesting to see how the top line stuff sells. And the new sports car to come, with RWD and a sharp body like a Maserati will be here this year or next. Not sure if it will be the Tiburon or a replacement with a new name.
-Loren
-Loren
I reckon putting the super Z06 engine in the V would have required a lot of engineering time to make it work.
GM engineers are probably addressing the frame issues noted by the testers.
That said, I agree with you. The 3.6 should be more than enough fun.
-Loren
All of that excess HP is like those folks that drive with huge audio systems with hundreds of watts and big speakers and make a lot of stupid noise that aggravates adjacent motorists or those in homes nearby.
Balance in a vehicle is what majority of people want and is why cars like Accord and Camry succeed. GM should not waste time and effort in marketing cars such as V8 Impala SS that have very limited interest. Sensible people looking at an Impala type car will pick a V6.
YOu might try getting a little more knowledge about the auto industry. You may be one of those sensible,CR worshipping buyers but that doesn't mean everybody else is that boring. :P
It is probably good thing for those Mustangs to have gained power to 300HP, since the old Camaro SS had 310HP. Yes, Mustang needs a higher HP along with the V6 210HP car. As for the thought of a Cadillac owner racing the streets in a 400HP CTS with a stick is somewhat of a stretch. May happen a couple times a year. I have never seen but one CTS on a lot at a time. I don't think the typical Cadillac owner needs to pretend he has a fire breathing track car. If he did, he does have the excellent CTS-V real track car to look up to. I saw the car at Laguna Seca and it was pretty cool. Do they need these in the showroom to bump sales of the V6, most likely not.
I did see the Ford GT for 165K in the showroom of the local car dealer. Hey, great looking car. Conversation piece, or a car for the very-very rich. Now what? The Mustang did not look any better or worse to me that day.
That is an interesting list of cars mentioned. The NSX is an overpriced car which is best bought used, as it held the same body style for so long. The Impala V8 is too much power for FWD without having torque steering and it has DOD, which may or may not work in the long run. The Dodge Viper is something to look at, yet rated a very poor buy. The Corvette is more practical, and has one more races too. Mitsubishi EVO is irrelevant since the dealerships are packing up and closing. It certainly did zip for sales.
Porsche may need a halo car or cars, but does Honda, Toyota and most car companies really need these super cars - I think not.
What is truly boring is not building cars which are in a good price range, well balanced, with steering feel, and enough gas mileage to live with everyday on the road, that have some cool looking design to them. Mustang, an old formula for success, is once again selling. Why? It is a fun and sporty RWD car which is affordable. Yes, there are the Shelby, Roushe, and Saleen models, but they were selling out Stangs long before those models were ever built. Something like 70% of Mustangs over the years have been sold with a V6.
-Loren
Datsun managed to breakthrough the US market in large part because of the original 240Z. Similarly, key to Nissan's recent turnaround was the return of the Z car. Previously, Mazda managed to avoid leaving the US market altogether with the success of the first generation RX-7. And the GTI was critical to keeping VW in the US after its debacles in Pennsylvania.
Sporty cars do matter, but the vanilla cars being sold also have to be good, otherwise the halo won't be enough. Toyota has opted for a somewhat different strategy, namely by creating a halo badge (Lexus), while drifting away from its most sporty offering (Supra), which seems to have worked, at least for now.
The sporty cars not only help with image, but also become real world test beds for new technology that eventually ends up in more mundane cars, improving the breed and the company's competitiveness. They are vital to the lineup, but they won't be directly responsible for driving the profits.
Key to Nissan's turnaround was following up Z with intersting mainstream cars like Altima, Murano etc.
OTOH, you can't get people to buy Malibu and Cobalt just
because the same company also made Z06s.
End of the day, only thing that matters is the product itself.
Discussion of 07/08/09 Cadillac models may be as relevant as discussions of 1960 Packard models.
This is the end game: GM has money to survive a strike or introduce new vehicles. It can't do both.
Perhaps the desirable lines like Cadillac, Corvette and the truck/SUV family will survive as part of another company.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060503/ap_on_bi_ge/delphi_unions_4
And with high fuel prices and big traffic, the message from Toyota (hybrid Camry) and Honda (the new Honda Fit)- seems much more relevant to the market today. At least I feel the Asian companies are trying to fill my needs in a Vehicle. GM may be trying, but I am not getting the message very clearly.
It is not the work of a few days to get other suppliers up and running.
Cars like the V8 Impala,Acura NSX,Ford GT whatever,Dodge Viper,Mistubishi EVO,to name just a few are "halo" cars and can bring in business to their respective brands. ----------------------------------------
That is very interesting. Wonder if there is even one instance ever where a person went to the Chevy dealer to look at a 2006 "Impala V8" and bought a Corvette instead.
Do so-called halo cars really bring people into showrooms to look at these and then end up actually buy the mundane? Anyone ever heard of someone who said, "I am going to the Chevy dealer to look over and try to get a test drive in a Corvette" and then buy a Malibu? Any studies and data on this by marketers?
Chevy dealers might have more shoppers/lookers to stop by and test drive the Malibu if it had decent styling.
On Acura NSX as halo car to draw in people supposedly - Have had a couple of Acuras over last 6 years and don't recall "ever" seeing an NSX on showroom floor of large dealership over that time.
The Corvette sales have had no effect of Chevy car sales as a whole. It is such a different class of car, and is not always even available at car dealerships. Their allotment seems to be first in trucks and suvs, then cars, then top line Corvettes.
-Loren
-Loren
Yes, you need the volume cars to also be good, because those will pull in the profits. The benefit of the Z is that it builds credibility for the Nissan badge, which gives the Altima and Murano buyer more comfort that their cars will also have badge qualities that make their cars worth buying.
OTOH, you can't get people to buy Malibu and Cobalt just because the same company also made Z06s.
Agreed. It's not enough to have a great sporty car, the core products also have to be appealing. The point here is that a good core offering should be more interesting and appealing because of the aura projected by the sexier offering.
End of the day, only thing that matters is the product itself.
No, absolutely not true. Every automaker needs to be conscious of its brand building -- when selling branded products such as cars, the value of the badge is critical. A strong badge helps to increase customer loyalty, makes it easier to conquer buyers from weaker badges, and maintains higher prices.
BMW is a fantastic brand. In the US, Toyota is an outstanding brand. Both are extremely valuable, and need to be nurtured.
Oldsmobile was a bad brand, and needed to be killed off. I will go further and argue that Chevy has become a bad, toxic brand, one so bad that it probably reduces sales, rather than helps them, when used for your run-of-the-mill passenger car. (It's a good one for trucks, and probably has no impact on the Corvette, but it almost dooms the Malibu right out of the gate.) This has been one critical mistake by GM -- it neglected its brands so badly, that it has gotten to a point that its badges are actually harmful to the company. A far cry from what was true earlier in the century, when companies such as GM and Proctor & Gamble practically invented brand-based marketing.
Kinda sad when you think of it, that all those names have been retired since then. Except for the Sentra. The domestics really do need to learn to stop tarnishing their names.
I'd also agree that the '02 Altima was the driving force behind Nissan's resurgence. Possibly that and their 3.5/4.0 V-6, which is a good engine and widely available across the whole lineup.
In contrast, way back in the early 80's the Honda Accord was an underpowered, ugly piece of tin that was an afterthough in most peoples mind but Honda kept the nameplate and kept growing the car and improving upon it until it became one of the best cars out there in the early 90's. Same with Toyota.
It's too late for the nameplates they've killed off already but the domestics need to make some long-term commitments to the new names and build them until they are instantly recognizable as a "Ford" or a "Chevy" and looked upon as a viable alternative to the imports among your average "Joe Carshopper.":
It's nice to have image leaders at high prices such as the NSX, but for halo cars to be most effective, they also need to be somewhat affordable -- not bargain-basement, but within reach of a middle-class consumer. Hence, the RX-7, Z cars, GTI, the earlier Supras, Prelude, etc.
The Japanese makers made some critical errors during the early 90's when they moved the price points of their sporty coupes so high relative to the market that they helped to drive themselves out of that market. Instead of using them to reach out to consumers, they sought to compete with the Europeans when they didn't yet have the brand equity to do so. That's why Nissan needed to reinvent the Z, which included shedding some of its pretensions in favor of a lower price point. If there is going to be another Supra, you can expect that some of the costly whiz-bang gadgets will be forsaken in order to keep the price within reach.
If you look at the badges that have failed in the US (Peugeot, Renault, FIAT, Daihatsu, etc.), they all have something in common: Each of them lacked both good mainstream products and an image leading car. Some of them had one or the other, but none of them had both. Both segments are critical to success, at least during the growth stage.
-Loren
-Loren
The hottest car going right now has to be the Aston Martin line of cars. Not exactly MPG leaders though
Still love them C5 Corvettes.
-Loren
GM has been in business since the early 1900's - before 1910.
My point is that your post is inaccurate.
Hyundai will making a new RWD sports car. This should make Ford a little nervous. Oh yeah, GM too. That is by the time the Camaro is good to go, the Hyundai will have a super little coupe out with 22nd Century stylin'
-Loren