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General Motors discussions

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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The Lucerne has the first usage of Magnetic Ride control in a Buick.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/BUSINESS01/605020392/10- - 14

    Rocky

    P.S. If the UAW does become more flexible on work conditions maybe GM, Ford, Chrysler, will reconsider moving plants. :cry:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yep, I already knew that. OTOH perhaps others didn't. ;)

    Good Post "62" ;)

    It will be interesting if Bose will ever get there neat suspension launched ?

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    This is CCR. It does not use the MagnaRide technique, which I infer changes the viscosity of the fluid to effect changes in the ride by electrical control via electromagnets or current flow through the medium.

    Instead this selects orifice size in the strut based on what the strut is doing at the time. The three orifices give comfort, normal, or sport ride settings in the struts. The inputs to the computer controlling the orifice selection are vehicle speed and vehicle acceleration. Based on that the computer under the front seat changes the struts for optimum ride.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I wonder id this is the same system they use in the SUV's called Autoride :confuse: Maybe ?

    Rocky
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    Rockylee, you are close to the situation: do you think UAW members will approve the Delphi strike?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I think this is the system struts on a few Bonnevilles in the 90s that people don't want to pay huge amounts to replace the struts-CCR. So they substitute normal struts instead.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Maybe, and here's why because they know that Delphi is going to burn them anyways. Shutting 19 out 24 plants down really puts a bullet in the heart as dad says. What do they have to lose if they are already going to lose there jobs eventually. He checked the GM box on retirement and like he says he hope somehow they won't strike. The older ones like him don't want to strike so they can retire, while the younger force is looking at a plant closing in a few years with no job. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Ummmmmm 19' Delphi plants I do know will either be closed, sold, or moved overseas.

    Here's a link. http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/21/news/fortune500/gm_cuts/index.htm?cnn=yes

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Rocky, what plants are GM considering moving? and where?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Delphi closing actually I was wrong it's 21' worst yet. 19 just sounded good. :sick:

    Delphi plants targeted for sale, closure
    A list of 21 Delphi Corp. plants that the auto parts supplier said Friday will be sold or closed under its latest plan. Locations are based on information provided to U.S. bankruptcy court by Delphi:

    Location Primary Products
    Adrian, Mich. Instrument panels, heating ventilation air conditioning (HVAC) assemblies
    Anderson, Ind. Remanufactured service generators, ignition products
    Athens, Ala. Steering products
    Columbus, Ohio Power products, latches
    Coopersville, Mich. Fuel injectors
    Cottondale, Ala. Cockpit assemblies
    Dayton, Ohio (Home Avenue) engine mounts, brake products
    Dayton, Ohio (Needmore) Brake products
    Fitzgerald, Ga. Batteries
    Flint, Mich. Air filters, fuel modules, air meters, air induction systems, instrument clusters
    Gadsden, Ala. Instrument panels and consoles
    Kettering, Ohio Suspension products, fan clutches
    Laurel, Miss. Plastic injection and stamped steel subassemblies for batteries, actuators, and ignition products
    Milwaukee (E&C) Catalytic converters
    Milwaukee (E&S) Powertrain controllers, body and security products, throttle control mechanisms
    Moraine, Ohio Air conditioning compressors
    New Brunswick, N.J. Batteries
    Saginaw, Mich. (E&C) Brake and chassis corner modules
    Saginaw, Mich. (Steering) Steering products, such as steering gears, power steering pumps, steering columns, intermediate shafts and driveline products, such as halfshafts
    Sandusky, Ohio Wheel bearings, roller clutch bearings
    Wichita Falls, Texas Conical oxygen sensors

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12098079/

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Rocky, these are Delphi plants. Not GM.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You obviously didn't read my above post 3 ago, anyways here it is again.... http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/21/news/fortune500/gm_cuts/index.htm?cnn=yes

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    P.S. If the UAW does become more flexible on work conditions maybe GM, Ford, Chrysler, will reconsider moving plants.

    Sorry Rocky, I was referring to your above statement on GM moving plants. The article you refer to only discussed closing plants in America to equalize GM product demand with capacity. I did not see anyting about product being moved to other plants. Of course as a plant closes and if that plant was bulding a needed product it would be moved. But most of the plant closings have the vehicle being built there able to be easily built somewhere else.

    Guess I though you were talking about moving production overseas.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Exactly. The Cobalt should of been car of the year.

    And, Pontiac Aztek should have been car/vehicle of the year a few years back. And, last iteration of Taurus.....
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    The Delphi strike, if it happens, would truly have no winners, not the union, the union members, Delphi, GM- nobody, unless the compromise is really equitable, and neither side can agree on equitable. But the airline people (pilots in particular like at Delta) did the same posturing, evening picketing the airport at Delta's hub in Atlanta, then cooler heads prevailed and they accepted a settlement without shutting down (and maybe killing) the airline.

    With the era of globalization and free trade upon us now, the efficacy of serious strikes against a company may be a thing of the past. Hey, maybe it's the UAW that's in more serious trouble now that GM and Ford? Haha, that would sure be a turn of events from 30 years ago.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    There is no difference in the tuning of the Lucerne's V8 and the base engine in the DTS. Both have 275 horsepower. However, the top of the line DTS (the DTS-DTS) has the HO northstar with more horsepower, but less torque.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    (looks) Nice - so it is a Buick DTS. For loads less money. I personally like the front bench seat option as well.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002/05/10/140166.html
    (it came out in 2002)

    This is very unlike any previous GM system in that it's simpler and is very much like stability control in that there are sensors and computers involved as opposed to fancy suspension "modes" and adjustments. If all GM cars came with this, they would whomp on the competition.

    I'll take the stability control, traction control, and magnetic ride, thank you :) Together it makes it drive as solid as a big benz. In black(thank god they offer it in black!) it looks like the tank it is :)

    My only gripe is that they should have brought back the Roadmaster name for the CXS model. It's been a few years, but this really to me at least, seems like a natural progression of the old Roadmaster. Big, powerful, and very close to a Caddy in performance. Like Buicks used to be when our fathers were young :)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >only gripe is that they should have brought back the Roadmaster name for the CXS model.

    But in these columns the heavy ridicule has been on the names that have been with us for a while. Reusing the Roadmaster name would have just been fuel for the haters to use against Buick.

    I can just hear it now. "They're still making Roadmasters for the 73rd year. Why my father had a Buick in 1937 and it leaked oil all over our gravel driveway. I'd never buy another Buick, especially one with the old name Roadmaster. They need to change or just do away with the Buick brand altogether."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...is quite true to Buick's original mission - big, powerful and almost as nice as a Cadillac.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Coming to these locations!

    Adrian, Mich.
    Anderson, Ind.
    Athens, Ala.
    Columbus, Ohio
    Coopersville, Mich.
    Cottondale, Ala.
    Fitzgerald, Ga.
    Flint, Mich.
    Gadsden, Ala.
    Kettering, Ohio
    Laurel, Miss.
    Moraine, Ohio
    New Brunswick, N.J.
    Sandusky, Ohio
    Wichita Falls, Texas

    Two new Wal-Marts and Sam's Clubs coming to these locations!

    Dayton, Ohio
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Saginaw, Michigan
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Buick will probably get a Zeta-platform car in the near (2009-2010) future, which will be RWD. This will probably replace the Lucerne rather than the LaCrosse. So, this RWD could be called the Roadmaster, but there is talk of naming it the Invicta.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
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    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I'd go with Invicta. GM retired that name before it could be tarnished by the dumpiness of the '80s and '90s Buick lineup. I'd also kill the LaCrosse and let the Lucerne be the entry-level Buick. The LaCrosse offers nothing you can't get from the Saturn Aura, and GM can't afford that sort of duplication anymore.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    They are bringing back the straight eight '37 Roadmaster - cool !
    Looks great - more filling :D

    Seriously though, the Buick line at least have names, unlike poor ol' Deville which is now a DTS. Lucerne and a bunch of letters is good compromise. Would have preferred LeSabre, but what the heck.

    Could be the Lucerne Padrone, or the Lucerne Padrone Della Strada, or maybe not :) The CXS will do.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Are you OK Rocky? Have you been out in the sun too long? Did you see that you typed in, "Cobalt should of been car of the year? " I am worried that you are losing it.

    The Cobalt, aside of problems with the car, is your basic economy ride. Cobalt has an engine with more torque than does the Civic. Not sure of anything else to say. It doesn't look offensive in any way, but it is lost in the crowd of econo cars. Sort of looks like a '90's Japanese or Korean model, or something. Had it looked different and had say RWD, then yes, something of a Car of the Year candidate. For small cars, the competition is gonna overwhelm. -Loren
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Year-to-date sales of luxury brands:
    1- Lexus: --------------- 93,056 up 5%
    2- BMW: ----------------- 88,353 up 16%
    3- Mercedes: ------------ 72,512 up 16%
    4- Cadillac: ------------ 68,845 down 2%
    5- Acura: --------------- 65,023 down 3%
    6- Lincoln: ------------- 43,571 up 5%
    7- Infiniti: ------------ 38,805 down 11%
    8- Volvo: --------------- 38,101 down 11%
    9- Audi: ---------------- 25,296 up 5%
    10- L. Rover: ----------- 15,035 up 30%
    11- Porche: ------------- 12,458 up 21%
    12- Saab: --------------- 11,366 up 8%
    13- Jaguar: ------------- 7,115 down 39%
  • duke15duke15 Member Posts: 161
    I don't know if it will save GM, but the 2007 Saturn Sky has brought us back into the GM fold. We used to only buy GMs until the mid 90's, then we switched to Japanese cars. In 8 weeks my wife's new Sky convertible should be delivered. She was about to buy a japanese convertible until we found the sky, so at least in our case the new styling is working!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I guess that Zephyr wasn't such a bad deal after all. funny to see Infiniti down. I thought they were really getting hot.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Infiniti and Nissan have been sucking wind at best the last six months.

    Cadillac needs to hurry getting the next gen CTS to market. Their hard won sales gains are starting to reverse.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Hope the better interior is worth the nine thousand extra bucks. What are people thinking? The Zep looks pretty good, as does the other two of more lowly name plates on them. Appears to be a good car. Perhaps it won't best the others in class, but what the heck. The Fusion, bought at a good enough discount, ain't all the bad a deal. Do they sell those Zephyr name plates -- just buy one and stick it on your Fusion. :shades:
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    New CTS is coming

    ...and with the 3.6 V6 as a standard engine, telescopic steering column, and lumbar support as standard? I would think so. For $30K, you should get a decent HP engine. 10 year warranty wouldn't hurt. :shades: -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    As long as the new CTS style doesn't make it too bland, then the more rounded style may play out well. The rest of the line up looks so-so. They need to make bolder styled STS, and a Coupe' again. The rectangular sports car thing is OK I guess, and I take it some like it better than the Corvette and actually paid the extra bucks. Personally I don't see it, but that of course doesn't matter.

    They could drop the DTS now that they have the Lucerne. How many large luxo models for cruising do they need? A smaller than CTS Coupe' for around $27K would be cool.
    Call it the CTS.5 :D
    -Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    and a Coupe' again.

    From the spy photos that were making the rounds a few weeks back, it appears a CTS coupe is in the work.

    I want GM to throw caution to the wind and bring out a single model El Dorado coupe, rather than a coupe sibling to a sedan. Probably not enough grumpy old loners like me to establish sufficient market.

    GM could drop the DTS now that they have the Lucerne. But I think GM may decide to drop Buick first.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I think both the Lucerne and DTS will end production at about the same time. However, while the Lucerne may be replaced with a RWD Zeta platform, the DTS could end up as a longer STS style sigma platform model, at a higher price point. There is presently a limit to sigma production, so either the capacity will have to expand some or there will have to be some limit to the number of sigma models that there are. Current production is not pushing the plant limits though.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Ah, the Cadillac Lucerne. Or is that the LaSalle. Anyway, the bring back of the Eldorado would be welcomed. The last Eldo was an excellent design, IMHO. Scale the same design down a bit, and make it more reliable, and it is a winner. OK, you can't go back, unless it is a Mustang. The 2002 year seams to have been one of drop outs for GM. Lost was a beautiful looking Eldo and Chevy Camaro. Well, perhaps the nose job went a little bad on the Camaro, but overall, the fourth generation look great to me. I take it the extra slope of the windshield and the bulge in the transmission tunnel into the passenger leg room area, were the main problems? Looks wise it is still one slick pony car. Come to think of it, the Z28 has more HP than the Stang. They were not known for great liability, or were they. Seems that most owners liked the car. 2002 -2000 look like decent years for mechanical reliability. A 2002 Z28 may be a keeper?
    -Loren
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    maybe this is appropos to the current discussion: why doesn't GM take what's best about the Corvette, and give us a nice looking coupe? and a sweet sedan?

    or do they already do this?

    assuming that the Vette is the "best" GM product?.....

    or is my assumption just way off base?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The transmission, while shifting weight to the back, would be kinda expensive to use in a less expensive coupe. Used in sports cars mainly, such as the Corvette and Porsche 944. The rear single leaf suspension, I believe was used on the Buick Riviera back in early 1990's, but that too is not needed for a coupe. The split gas tanks are not needed. I don't know. Nothing Corvette would match a basic sporty coupe. And the plastic body?

    How about just making a nice coupe of the CTS, and a new smaller chassis for a RWD Nova sedan and coupe. The same platform for the Camaro? Sure why not. Make a smaller and lighter Camaro. We don't need over 79" wide cars. Make a small V6 or better yet an inline 6, and a small and fuel efficient V8 and be done with it. Well plus the Caddy engine and Truck engines. Let's say, cut the number of engines at least in half. I don't want a DOD engine - thanks you. If they had a Nova with a 3.6 V6, and weighing in at 3,100# or less, that would be sweet. The Altima, I think weighs in around that figure. Then make a Camaro even leaner using more aluminum.
    -Loren
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Didn't Lutz say that the Zeta platform would be used on:
    Chevrolet Camaro, Impala, Monte Carlo
    Pontiac G8, GTO
    and the Buick Statesman?

    Now, Australia's new VE Commodore is coming out this year, and will effectively be the first Zeta car. Every new generation of Commodore comes with a new generation of Statesman/Caprice (eventually), which is a stretched, more luxurious version with different styling. So by calling it the Buick Statesman in a press release, is Lutz saying that the new Holden Statesman will be rebadged as a Buick? Seems odd to double up on a name (look at Ford Fusion and Ford Fusion... UK & US)

    Also, if the Monte Carlo and Camaro are going to be on the same platform, how are they going to differentiate them? The Monte Carlo can't go all soft and rely on only old people, can it? Or will it be cheaper? More luxurious?
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Top 10 year-to-date sales for SUV's:

    1- Ford Explorer: ---------- 60,488 down 30%
    2- Ford Escape: ------------ 58,279 down 2%
    3- Chevy Tahoe: ------------ 58,242 up 46%
    4- Chevy Trailblazer: ------ 56,178 down 14%
    5- Jeep Grand Cherokee: ---- 51,073 down 22%
    6- Toyota RAV4: ------------ 47,798 up 113%
    7- Honda Pilot: ------------ 46,432 up 11%
    8- Honda CR-V: ------------- 45,856 down 4%
    9- Jeep Liberty: ----------- 45,348 down 18%
    10- Toyota Highlander: ----- 40,115 down 11%
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    4 of the 10 top selling SUVs are Asian - who would have thought 10 years ago!
    Will this repeat for pickups 10 years from now?
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    The Cobalt should of been car of the year.

    Cobalt should of been rental car of the year.
    Honorable mentions: Impala, Malibu.
    If there is manufacturer's trophy GM would win that too.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I am not sure about the Riviera's suspension. I do know that the 86 through 93 Riviera was the same basic design, with the 89 model getting a restyled roof and rear end. However, the Toronado and Eldorado were using the same body design during much of that time period too. The 92 Eldorado moved onto a new platform. Also, there was no 94 Riviera, the 95 Riviera was all new on the G-platform in early 1994.

    I think that GM needs to reduce the number of platforms that it is using. The Camaro will be a zeta platform, and there are going to be some sedans on this platform too. The zeta will probably replace the W-platform (FWD Impala...) and the FWD G-platform (Lucerne, DTS). However, there will be some new Epsilon cars on a second generation Epsilon platform.

    GM has recently put new engines into production - the DOHC global V6; and the pushrod VVT 3.5 and 3.9 liter V6's. The 3800 will be dropped and also I think the last of the 3.4's.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Year-to-date sales:

    1- Toyota Tacoma: ------------ 57,027 up 17%
    2- Ford Ranger: -------------- 31,448 down 18%
    3- Chevy Colorado: ----------- 27,840 down 39%
    4- Nissan Frontier: ---------- 27,397 up 16%
    5- Dodge Dakota: ------------- 26,628 down 25%
    6- Honda Ridgeline: ---------- 18,295 up 151%
    7- GMC Canyon: ---------------- 6,549 down 44%
    8- Mazda B-Series: ------------ 1,634 down 34%

    Highlights:
    - Tacoma's sales are almost double the sales of the second best seller. What's up with that?
    - Sales of both the Isuzu i-series and Mitsubishi Raider were undisclosed. But both trucks are seriously failing.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Ouch! Good one !
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yeah, I thought I changed that '94 to '93 - got the date off. Anyway, the 1993, I think had a unique style to her, and the suspension in back, I think was that single fiberglass leaf design. Cars still had glass area to them and not as large a butt as today's have.

    Yesterday, I went to watch the Cruisin' Morro Bay Show, cruise night. Well 6PM anyway. Now there were some sweet GM cars cruising the street. Heck, even the 4th generation Camaro Z28. Or was that two of them. Sort of a modern day relic. Sure like the looks. I can see though how the Mustang may be a better choice for daily driving, like around town. Better visibility, trunk, passenger leg space. But for what it is, the Camaro is one sharp car. At least something to play with.

    A Monte Carlo with RWD and a 350V8 would be sweet.
    With 25MPG possible, no worries about having to go DOD, or anything to obtain the gas mileage.
    -Loren
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Hopefully GM USA will not ruin the Astra by "Americanize" the car with cheap tail lights and such.

    The bean counters will say "That panorama windshield is too expensive. Use the headlights from the Cobalt. Take the tail lights from the Sky. Nobody wants navigation in an economy car. The Ecotec 2.2 is good enough." What we'll end up with is a Cobalt hatchback and a few different body panel stampings.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,412
    I was never crazy about them. They look like they're as long as an F 350 duelie and did not address enough of the issues with the earlier models.

    However, I've really gotten into that show Pinks on Speed and some guys have built the heck out of them. Some of those cars can really really go!! One guy with a bored out small block was running in the 8s. He took a 505 ci 68 Nova 3 out of 4 times. It was unbelievably fast. Despite the weight, I guess that they can be built.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Read the report.

    The report says from '07 through the next gen Saturn/Opel Astra, the car will be made in the Netherlands and imported to the US.

    If you understand the manufacturing process, you would know drastic changes, such as a new body to accomodate a different wind screen and elaborate changes to the drive train will be more expensive than it is worth.

    If the Opel can accomodate a Nav system, it could well be offered as an option. Navs are expensive baubles, imo. Would not want to pay for it as a standard feature.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The report says from '07 through the next gen Saturn/Opel Astra, the car will be made in the Netherlands and imported to the US.

    I'll believe that the day after I see it. The exchange rate between the Euro and the dollar would put a European-built Saturn Astra well in the mid-$20s. VW can get away with those sorts of prices because of their reputation for good interiors and handling. Saturn has neither of those.

    If you understand the manufacturing process, you would know drastic changes, such as a new body to accomodate a different wind screen and elaborate changes to the drive train will be more expensive than it is worth.

    One would think so, but then look at the blizzard of stuff GMNA did to the Opel Vectra to make the Saturn Aura. Completely different powertrains and interiors, and they even put a footbrake on the Aura.

    Vectra

    Aura
This discussion has been closed.