General Motors discussions

ace35

i wasnt raving about the yota's refinement, i just think this engine is more refined than that of gm's 4. i think the honda 4's are possibly the best 4's on the car market. I commend Gm for finally bring up to date motors to market but they still need improving. And while there improving so will the others.

m1miata

I am glad Wards likes them. The Japan engines have always been superior. Good luck with the American 4 banger. I would get a 6 or an 8, but not the DOD 8, if going with the GM.
-Loren

dieselone

This could be what is happening. On a Sky fan forum, a sales person rather proudly stated that all Sky's his shop sells will come with a $2.7k alarm system.

That's simply ridiculous, and I hope people don't fall for that type of gouging.

If people are willing to pay, then so be it, but I think those types of practices will hurt demand at some point.

m1miata

Ask them where the roll bar is located on the Sky. Yeah, I know, they don't roll and you don't plan on rolling one.
-Loren

rockylee

Does the so-called benchmark miata have a roll bar ?

Rocky

m1miata

Current ones may. It looks like a roll bar, yet without the backward facing braces, I don't know how it does in a roll over. The standard in the industry is German cars. They all have roll bars which will protect in a roll over. Since people are so worried about having an air bag, while already having the seat belt, it is amazing they don't worry about their heads.
-Loren

logic1

The standard in the industry is German cars.

The least expensive German Roadster is what, 12k more than the most expensive Kappa?

Since people are so worried about having an air bag, while already having the seat belt, it is amazing they don't worry about their heads.

You have beaten this theme to death in this and other forums. I may have missed it. As far as I know, you have never provided any data on Roadster roll over fatalities. (I think you provided some general roll over fatalities)

When you think about it, any small car will be less safe than say, a Volvo station wagon or a Saab Sport Combi. People who buy Roadsters - and motorcycles - and small airplanes - are buying an experience. They realize the experience comes with some risks a more conservative option would not.

rockylee

What 62 ? :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

Well a GM convertible named Saab 9-3 does have a roll bar and if ya wanna lease one this is what a 2.0T will cost ya. 2006 9-3 2.0T Convertible
Automatic transmission, metallic paint and cold weather package
Starting at $469 mo./27 mo.*
$2,999 due at lease inception (includes down pmt., acq. fee & first mo. pmt.)
Residency restrictions apply. ‡
Effective: 5/2/2006 - 7/5/2006

Rocky

62vetteefp

3 year dependibility Hyundai-20th, 260 vs 237 industry average. No GM divisions lower than Hyundai (Buick-163,range to Pontiac-245)

initial quality Hyundai- 11th out of 36 with 110, above industry average of 118. GM ranges from Buick-100 (4rth) and Saturn-136.

APEAL Hyundai 5th from last, just below chevy.

Actually things are looking up for Hyundai. IQS2 shows that they have a good chance at going higher in the long term dependibility ranking 3 years from now.

rockylee

Hyundai, regardless what the Joseph Goebbels of the world say like JD and CR, they still and always will be tinaments that the poor of this country buy when they desire a real car like a Japanese, German, Scandinavian, Italian, American. :P

Rocky

62vetteefp

Not a GM comparison but does say a few things about the problems with Camry.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/AUTO03/605030329/1149- - /AUTO01

One thing that these reviewers always have a problem with is standard safety features. They give the win to Camry because the model tested has SIAB's and such standard while on the Fusion it is an upcharge. They do not bother to state whether the model tested (at $25,650)has the safety features in this test vehicle. If it did they should not need to complain since the options were included in this comparison price. To see the real safety winner they should look at crash data or such.

jae5

if this is in keeping with the topic, but have questions for the board:

With the rising fuel prices, how do you kats/kittens think GM will fair with their restyled SUVs? April figures, as well as first quarter overall, are showing pretty decent numbers for the GMT900. But seeing petro prices in the $3 ~ $4 range already and summer driving season hasn't kicked off, will this continue? In other words, can their styling be enough to keep them moving strong as GM rolls out the rest of the GMT900 line?

Will this (high fuel prices) cause the other vehicles in the fleet (Cobalt, G6/Bu 4cyls, Aveos, HHR) to boom and take-off, taking over the "leadership duties" that the SUVs currently have? Do they have enough style, pizzazz to carry the burden?

Will GM continue to lose share, despite their restyles / updates?

Will we see crops of small-car rebadges to help shore up the other lines with fuel-sipping vehicles so that divisions can obtain/maintain traffic? For example, another Pontiac LeMans that's nothing more than a facelifted Aveo? A Buick version of the Cobalt, a la Skyhawk (ooh, ooh, maybe a Cobalt SS Supercharged rebadged as a T-Type! :P )

What do you guys/gals think?

rockylee

Will GM continue to lose share, despite their restyles / updates?

Perception is the key. Ask the average american what's a better car.... A Buick or a Toyota ? ....3 out of 4 will say a Toyota :sick: I duuno if the bleeding will ever stop because of perception

Rocky

logic1

GM will have a LAT hybrid VUE available in about a month. Later this year it will start selling its first two phase hybrid trucks. The hybrid system can easily adapt to larger GM automobiles as well.

Furthermore, with the new low sulphur diesel on its way, I should think GM would up manufacture of its diesel engines for trucks and cars, rather than make a lot of Cobalts.

rockylee

The new hybrid will be cool, and the Greenline won't set a soccer mom back a whole lot of dough.

rocky

rockylee

http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/?@@

OMG My Cadillac "Super CTS-V" is dead

Rocky

rockylee

:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

OMG- This is sinking in very badly guys. I was honestly going to proudly buy one.

Rocky

lemko

I could care less about resale value as I keep my cars forever. To me, buying a car I don't like just because it's got better resale value is still throwing away money in my book.

Gap insurance is there in case the car is wrecked or stolen and then totalled by the insurance company. In case the car's value is less than what is owed, gap insurance covers the difference. It's cheap but worth it.

rockylee

You meant to say pal it's cheap and worth it right ?

Rocky

P.S. How is the Misses LaCrosse running ?

rockylee

It's canceled logic1. That was it. The total redesign was going to happen in about 3-4 years, but this was a "get em' over the hump" car because the current CTS is stodgy when compared to the competition :sick:

Rocky

logic1

I am sure there will be a very nice 6 speed, sport suspension 3.6 litre CTS available in the next generation that should go about as fast as one could ever reasonably want to go.

rockylee

I was pretty dead set on buying a 07' CTS or CTS-V. Back to the drawing board. I guess I have lots of time to think about it. :sick:

Rocky

rockylee

This car also was going to have the new interior
and 7.0 V-8 from the Z-06. :mad:

Rocky

rockylee

That's a long time away. Like 2009' or 10' :sick:

Rocky

logic1

I thought the new CTS was set to launch next year?

rockylee

I wanted a fast car with a stick, had nice luxurious fit and finish, My GAWD I gotta e-mail GM my anger. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rocky

rockylee

No that's old news pal....

May 2, 2006

2007 Cadillac "Super CTS-V" Canceled

Latest news from the grapevine says the upgraded CTS-V won't happen. We had originally reported the possibility of a mid-cycle update, including suspension tuning, revised bodywork and a 505 horsepower V8 pulled directly from the current Corvette Z06. Now we're hearing those plans have been scrapped. Apparently the cost-benefit ratio doesn't make sense, particulary with an all-new CTS so close to production. Makes economic sense, but continues to leave the current car's 400hp V8 sucking wind compared to the 425hp, $10K cheaper Chrysler 300 SRT-8.

Posted by Karl May 2, 2006 4:53 pm

Permalink | Comments [6]

Rocky

Categories: Cadillac CTS

logic1

Next Fall:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=110105

I am certain it will have a six speed manual. The 3.6 should get up to 280, maybe even 300 ponies. GM no doubt will tweak an already excellent suspension.

I like the current CTS' looks. Given what GM is doing elsewhere, I expect gen 2 will be more attractive. Maybe even a coupe available (though you may have to wait until Spring '08 for that)

jae5

True. Basically the preceived quality issue. Gm is still perceived as bad and even if there are comments about the improvements, there are still the "...but not up to Toyota, Honda standards".

And with the Delphi situation... :confuse:

jae5

Why not get an M3 and stick a CTS-V badge on it? :P

I had to mess with you Rock ; couldn't resist!

rockylee

Yuppers.... :sick: Then for those "Four letter Words" :mad: Bleap, Bleap, Bleap, to cancel another darn car I loved. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rocky

dieselone

Why not get an M3 and stick a CTS-V badge on it?

Oh, the horror....

rockylee

:surprise: I'm gonna whip your butt If I get the chance your smart butt !!!! :P

Rocky

rockylee

I want the V series logic. I've had cars with 300 hp. and they bore me. I want something I can out maneuver and pass the Trophy Wifes that are on there Cell Phone all over the road in a behemoth Escalade that's got a 100+ horses on me.

Rocky

rockylee

How much is a M3 Sedan gonna cost a guy ?

BMW Might get my money :mad: Then I'm gonna drive it right down Rick and Bobs throat for setting me up again !!!!!

Rocky :mad:

jae5

With the diesels, how quickly can GM manuvuer so they run on the low-sulfur fuel? Can they manage the switch with electronics only or are there other parts/components that have to be dealt with (injectors, injection pump, lines, seals)? As far as cars, do you think there are too many people out there (besides us on the boards) that remember the last GM passenger-car diesels? Again, as Rock mentioned, perceived quality and robustness? DOD and the V8-6-4 are one thing, the diesel... :surprise:

Sorry, haven't kept up with my diesels since leaving PGL and the truck supplier a few years back.

logic1

No that's old news pal....

We are talking two different cars.

My link is to the next generation mainline CTS. GM is apparently going to wait on upgrading the V series until it has the next generation up and going.

My point is that with the improvements in store for the next generation you will be able to get plenty of speed and fun to drive quotient without spilling the big bucks for a V series.

rockylee

I was going to go rest a while and I made the mistake of clicking on Karl on cars and read the worst automotive news that personally is affecting "me"

Rocky

jae5

Not sure.

But seeing as the CTS-V is somewhat a competitor, pricing should be about the same for the Bimmer, with the BMW slightly higher for the "German Engineering".

rockylee

STS-V is way out of my price range. The currents CTS-V I can't stand the interior and it's not worth me spending that kinda money on a car, I only like the exterior.

OTOH I'd take the new TT 300 hp straight six BMW Coupe in 4 doors if that makes any sense. :confuse:

Rocky

logic1

With the diesels, how quickly can GM manuvuer so they run on the low-sulfur fuel? Can they manage the switch with electronics only or are there other parts/components that have to be dealt with (injectors, injection pump, lines, seals)?

GM's diesels are selling in Europe where they already have the low sulfur fuel.

I know in the 1980s - some 20 years ago - GM had a problem with a diesel engine.* Reviews out of Europe have been pretty kind to the new GM diesels.

*n.b.: A few years after GM offered the problematic diesel, Toyota launched the Camry. As my college girlfreind's parents can attest, the things tended to rust very quickly. A problem which does not have much bearing on how people think about the Camry in 2006.

logic1

Well, then its is either the current CTS-V or the STS-V.

rockylee

It just might be worth a few nickels more. "Honey sell the Kids, Daddy's getting a M3 Black Bimmer" :surprise:

Rocky

logic1

OTOH I'd take the new TT 300 hp straight six BMW Coupe in 4 doors if that makes any sense.

I am not trying to be mean - and I would never quarrel with anyone's decision to buy a BMW - but you really are not making sense to me.

The 2nd Gen CTS should have an option close to 300 ponies. It will no doubt handle better than the current CTS, which is no slouch. It will be a bit larger than the BMW (which is getting pretty big now a days). And it will probably be slightly less expensive similarly equipped unless the dollar Euro catch up.

rockylee

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/futurevehicles/new3coupe?source=3COUFMA

The BMW 335i Coupe will run circles around a 3.6 CTS. It's a fact. Infact it will run circles around a 6 more hp. Lexus IS 350.

Rocky

P.S. 0-60 in 5.3 and those are factory estimates. The real numbers will be a tick or 2 under 5 seconds and you can take that to the bank.

Rocky

logic1

The BMW 335i Coupe will run circles around a 3.6 CTS. It's a fact. Infact it will run circles around a 6 more hp. Lexus IS 350.

The existing CTS. We don't know the numbers for the 2nd Generation CTS.

By all means, if you are buying this year, go with the BMW. As I said, I love the cars.

But if you are buying next year, I expect the forth coming CTS to put up a strong fight.

bumpy

Now you know where the UAW/Delphi buyout money came from.

On the other hand, you can pick up a 2003 CTS, drop in the 6-speed from one of those salvage GTOs and a LS7 crate motor. Won't be cheap, but still $15-20,000 less than a "Super CTS-V" would have been.

bumpy

The 3.6 should get up to 280, maybe even 300 ponies.

It will need at least at least 300 horses, if GM doesn't want the CTS to be clobbered by the G35 and whatever Hyundai calls their RWD cruiser.

bumpy

The BOF SUV's will get about a 6-9 month pop before they fizzle out. The regular trucks will chug along, since the main market for those has a "buy it when you need it" mentality. Otherwise, GM's going to be in for a rough late 2006, since their small and mid-sized SUV lineup is weak and just about everyone else has new product on hand or imminent.