General Motors discussions

irnmdn

"I'm a high school dropout and I deal in pharmaceuticals and your cops can't pin anything on me and look at the cool car I'm driving. Ain't I done great in my life?"

Does't that describe most Escalade drivers to a T.
Last time I checked GM was offering special deals for registered drug dealers on this particular model.

wvgasguy

Seriously, you drive a LeSabre and you want to critize the Camry????

wvgasguy

I see the Maxx as having a lot of room for hauling stuff and would buy for that purpose.

That probably is a good purpose for the purchase.

I understand it's being discontinued? I don't understand that purpose.

Uhh, not everyone considers this "good looking".

lemko

Shoot, EVERY day is Camry-bashing day! To me, the Camry says, "I'm a mindless sheep who lets CR make my decisions!" Heck, even Kevin Spacey's character in "American Beauty" realized how emasculating it is to drive a Camry and traded it for a cool 1970 Trans Am.

No spinners on my ride. My Caddy is all original and she truly is a beauty!

wvgasguy

Kevin Spacey's character in "American Beauty"

Now there is a good help source to make your automotive decisions. Talking about mindless sheep.

gsemike

Spacey's car was a Formula and it was gorgeous. I think that Lester found the Camry more boring than emasculating. If he had happened to be driving an Impala, he probably would have traded that in as well but gotten alot less for it.

lemko

I've consistantly purchased Cadillacs and Buicks due to my own experience that they truly are excellent cars. I don't need a guide of any sort to tell me what to buy. I follow my own instincts even if they are contrary to what everybody else believes.

lemko

I felt bad for Spacey's character as his shrew of a wife probably made him buy the Camry. I doubt he'd have really wanted one.

62vetteefp

There was discussion here about the Malibu. While these spy photos really do not show much they do show the general body shape. It is really difficult to see how a car looks when in unadorned white with masking.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/10951_WWDBPZEZCFPSB.jpg

imidazol97

I see you own an 07 Camry and another Toyota product in your profile. I can understand your feeling hurt by the comments that criticize the weird styling moves.

andre1969

I don't like about the '07 Camry is that swollen look up front. I do like the headlights, which seem smaller and give the car less of a wide-eyed look. I think if they'd move the logo down to the center of the grille, instead of having it at the top, it might balance it out a bit more visually.

The rear end of the car doesn't bother me, but I think that rounded-off look, with just a hint of bustleback, might be part of the reason the '07 has less trunk space than the '02-06, which had a more squared-off rump.

I like some of the colors they're offering the new Camry in, though. I've seen a light blue and a light green that really catch my eye. A nice change from the generic seas of silver, champagne, sandstone, etc that seems to proliferate in cars these days.

62vetteefp

Perhaps, like I said it is impossible to know what it really looks like. I remember seeing the first 82 camaros in the lab and thinking how ugly they were. two years later I bought my first brand new car-82 Z28. Loved that car(except for all the niddly pipsqueak problems).

andre1969

looks like it's on a pretty long wheelbase. Are they moving it to the longer G6/Maxx version of the platform?

FWIW I thought the Malibu cleaned up pretty well for its 2006 refresh. Not enough to get me excited enough to rush out and buy one, but I find it easier on the eyes than the '04-05 front-end.

louiswei

he AValon and Camry both lifted stole the 750 BMW trunk on trunk look.

It's call the "Bangle Butt" as referred to BMW's chief designer Chris Bangle. Not only Toyota has been copying Bangle's design, luxury car manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz is doing it as well

louiswei

I've consistantly purchased Cadillacs and Buicks due to my own experience that they truly are excellent cars. I don't need a guide of any sort to tell me what to buy. I follow my own instincts even if they are contrary to what everybody else believes.

Well if you put it that way, here's mine:

I've consistantly purchased Toyota/Honda/Acura/Lexus due to my own experience that they are truly great and reliable cars. I don't need a guide of any sort or patriotic commercials like "buy American" to tell me what to buy. I follow my own judgement (not instinct); although sometimes they are the same as many other consumers that doesn't mean that I am a copycat. :shades:

bumpy

And it first showed up on the 1998 Hyundai Grandeur, several years before "Bangle" became an epithet.

motownusa

I think the current Camry looks excellent a whole lot better than the pathetic Malibu.

louiswei

Shhhh...This is a GM forum :P

BTW, I saw that you work for Northrop Grumman. Do you like it there? I'll be starting on the 19th of this month, I am AE though.

wvgasguy

I see you own an 07 Camry and another Toyota product in your profile. I can understand your feeling hurt by the comments that criticize the weird styling moves

I just traded off my Ford Expedition and Infiniti FX45 (addmitly "different"). Actually I'm not hurt by your comments, rather amused. I personally like the looks of the new Camry, probably would never have considered the 06.
Then again I probably like a car a little "different" as my past few rides have been an AudiTT, 350Z and Infiniti FX45.

I consider the Camry one of my least "weird" styled cars in my fleet lately.

Now if you really want to see a pig snout on a car, look at the Tribeca

lemko

I think they both look pathetic. The Malibu's headlights are too high in relation to the grille. The elimination of the fat chrome bar does improve the look. You wouldn't catch me driving either one.

gogogodzilla

Well...

I'll definitely agree that it's very difficult to get into and out of a low-slung car (like a mid-nineties Saturn) when you're wearing a full chem-warfare suit, flak vest, gas mask, helmet, web-belt, and canteen.

lemko

Nah. The Tribeca looks more like the helmet of a Cylon Centurion from the old Battlestar Gallactica series.

wvgasguy

I think they both look pathetic

I agree, Maybe GM needs another Retro vehicle. Instead of a Camaro, they could use the HHR underpinnings and do a small retro of say something like a 1989 Cadillac Brougham. That should sell like hotcakes.

Sorry, but I can't seem to take you seriously as an expert on attractive designs. (However I do like the Sevelle, you just got lucky there because I'll bet you would have bought a Cadillac no matter what it looked like)

motownusa

I think you would love it there. I do. Pay and benefit is excellent and they have tuition reimbursement program too. Good luck with your new job

fintail

Maybe we'll see some aftermarket kits to mask the Camry pig snout/broken rhino horn. That grille and laughable emblem really hurt the car, which in Camry terms isn't bad. It's bland, but it is homogenous. The car lost those huge banal headlights, I'm happy with that alone. It's a more premium brand of white bread now, and it is more attractive than the dull Malibu.

chuck1959

I guess it's good for GM that they still have people out there that think the Maxx "looks great".

Of course I thought the same thing when American Motors came out with the Pacer and the Matedor (sp?).

Now I can't say the Maxx "looks great" (it doesn't). But what I like about it and the Pacer and Matador (which I owed at one time) as well is that they look different. That's why I bought my Kia Rio Cinco, you don't see a lot of them as compared to the sedans.

wvgasguy

Maybe we'll see some aftermarket kits to mask the Camry pig snout/broken rhino horn.

Perhaps a big chrome grill like on your MB?

However I really like your MB, perhaps that's why I like the Camry. Classic look even years from now.

wvgasguy

Now I can't say the Maxx "looks great" (it doesn't). But what I like about it and the Pacer and Matador (which I owed at one time) as well is that they look different. That's why I bought my Kia Rio Cinco, you don't see a lot of them as compared to the sedans.
FINALLY, an honest poster and one willing to admit to tastes that are not quite "normal".

Now the Javalin, that was a car that should have survived !

andre1969

might not be that exciting to look at, but I liked it because it gave you some versatility in a car package, without having to resort to an SUV, minivan, or crossover.

The Maxx kinda made me think of those old '83-86 Camry 5-door hatchbacks.

As for Matadors, I kinda like those "coffin-nose" sedans of the mid-late 70's...they make me think a bit of an exaggerated '75-76 Dodge Dart. Those funky bug-eyed coupes were a bit much for me though! I guess you gotta give AMC some credit for being daring, though!

imidazol97

They should come out with a 68 camaro retro that looks like a 68 camaro in the same way the mustang looks like a 67 68 mustang.

imidazol97

I saw a Rambler Marlin at the car show Saturday. I'd forgotten the difference between Javelin, Marlin, Baraccuda, etc. I was surprised the Marlin said Rambler on it. It's been a long time since I saw that name.

wvgasguy

They should come out with a 68 camaro retro that looks like a 68 camaro in the same way the mustang looks like a 67 68 mustang.

I knew we'd agree on something eventually. I would have a new "68" Camaro parked beside my Camry Hybrid if it was available. EVEN if it only got 12 mpg like my 73 camaro did.

driver100

New Malibu looks pretty good;
link title
It actually does look like last years Camry.

bumpy

There's enough of an aftermarket to build a new '68 Camaro out of a catalog, if you really want one.

imidazol97

to come up with a twist on the retro 68 Camaro though to avoid being called a copycat again as with the HHR. To my eyes the HHR is different enough from the effeminate PT Cruiser to have earned its stripes. The PT was designed with heavy hands from female engineers, IIRC, to appeal to the distaff side.

wvgasguy

to avoid being called a copycat again as with the HHR.

Let's see what would the market be for a 68Camaro retro vrs the 49 Surburban?????

As I mentioned last week if they wanted to sell an attractive design in the size of an HHR it should have been a retro of the 55 Nomad.

andre1969

that if Chevy does come out with a new Camaro, they make it a bit more sleek than what Dodge is doing with the Challenger. I heard the Challenger is something like 80 inches wide! If I want to drive something 80 inches wide, I'll buy a pickup truck. Or a pre-downsized 70's full-sized car. But IMO ponycars should be relatively compact!

Although I'll admit that I like the Challenger enough that, even with that porky width, I might still consider one!

fintail

I will cautiously admit I almost see a little MB (esp new S class) in the relation of the greenhouse shape and its relation to the wheel openings. MBs do tend to age well, really as well as any other car, if not better.

xrunner2

the AValon and Camry both lifted stole the 750 BMW trunk on trunk look.

It's call the "Bangle Butt" as referred to BMW's chief designer Chris Bangle. Not only Toyota has been copying Bangle's design, luxury car manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz is doing it as well

And the BMW 5 and 7 rear look like rears from early 90's Mopar Cirrus, Stratus twins. The Cirrus/Stratus have aged well and still look good today, much better styling than GM's entire history of Saturns and the current Malibu.

One might complement an owner of a current 5/7 series by telling them the great job that BMW did in copying Chrysler styling.

andre1969

that the Bangle rump has a similarity to the '95-00 Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze. I thought those Mopar sedans were good looking too, and have actually aged better than the '01-06 Stratus/Sebring sedan.

Actually, from that timeframe, I don't think the '97-03 Malibu has aged too badly. At least, in terms of exterior style. I never liked the interiors of them though. At least the Chryslers had a pretty nice interior for that price point, although they seemed to get cheapened for '01.

Oh, I tried to complement a BMW the other day about its Chrysler styling, but the guy I mentioned it to (not an owner, but a wanna-be owner) wasn't too amused. So proceed at your own risk! :P

m1miata

Sorry, but the concept Camaro is within an inch of width of the Challenger tank. Camaro has even larger wheels and taller door window sills. These new cars are more army personale carriers than anything. Even the Mustang is getting porky. Hope they put a decent interior in the actual model which is produced. The Mustang is still kinda cheap hard plastic with unmatched textures.

Sometime I wonder if they are new at this, then you think nah, they have been at this for more than a hundred years. By the time Camaro is released, the new Hyundai show car may be produced. Well maybe. And if it hits the market and looks like the show car, it is going to sell. The Camaro and Challenger hopefully will not be too large, have cheapo looking plastic inside, and cost too much. So far they are lucky Toyota and Honda have not made a little rear wheel drive sporty pony car. If something like the Celica re-appeared in RWD, and got 35MPG, it is game over for Mustang and the rest. When does gas hit $4 ?
-Loren

lemko

Nah. Cadillac Brougham styling won't look right on a small scale - you'd end up with something like the 1985-88 C-Body DeVille/Fleetwood which looks terrible.

I'm sure if that 2007 Camry was a pig-nosed 2007 Impala, you'd rip the design to shreds.

xrunner2

Let's see what would the market be for a 68Camaro retro vrs the 49 Surburban?????

Market for pony cars Camaro/Firebird was withering throughout the 90's. Mustang survived the 90's perhaps because of styling/performance/smaller size.

There may not be much of a market for retro Camaro, especially one that looks like it belongs in a Batman comic strip. If GM were serious about RWD sports or sports type coupe, they would try to offer something in Pontiac line to compete against BMW 3.

Think that market for sporty "type" cars (pony) in late 60's was large because there were limited alternatives if one wanted sports or sport type. True sports cars from Britain and Germany were expensive and/or unreliable. Today, there are numerous alternatives in vehicle types that did not exist in the late 60's. Also, people's tastes have changed. Utility, ability to haul sports equipment, bikes, surfboards, etc., is more important to younger people than a sporty looking car that can't accomodate people and stuff they want to haul.

In late 60's, only people driving pickups or utility type vehicles were persons using them in occupations. It was very uncool to drive a pickup, van or any type of utility. You had to have something sporty.

m1miata

The fish looks far better than the car, in this case.
Would love to own a 'Cuda, Javelin, or an AMX.
The Rambler Marlin is different. That is the kindest thing to say.
-Loren

lemko

...the Marlin was based on an AMC show car called the Tarpon which was on the smaller American chassis. Somebody had the "bright" idea to put the fastback on the larger Classic platform hence the Marlin.

The 1974-78 Matador coupe was designed with NASCAR in mind much like the Mercury Cyclone or Plymouth Superbird. Once again AMC was 4 or 5 years too late. That car certainly didn't age well and most certainly didn'y take well to mid-late '70s styling cliches. Vinyl roofs looked awkward. Landau roofs with opera windows looked absolutlely grotesque.

torque_r

I agree the Camry is an irresistible value. Forget the solid reputation, 268hp sedan for 22/31 mpg and less than $25K? No GM sedan for less than $30 (how many are they?)can even come close.

xrunner2

The Camaro and Challenger hopefully will not be too large, have cheapo looking plastic inside, and cost too much. So far they are lucky Toyota and Honda have not made a little rear wheel drive sporty pony car. If something like the Celica re-appeared in RWD, and got 35MPG, it is game over for Mustang and the rest.

Toyota could sqaush Camaro/Mustang/Challenger if it would make an "affordable" Supra fastback similar to 1982 layout with inline 6. A companion cheaper model could be a Celica fastback with 4 cyl. Supra of course would be a true sports car but with some utility per a hatchback.

plekto

Shoot, if I could get a Lucerne CXS for $30K, I'd buy it today! I drove a nice black one when my girlfriend was getting an oil change for her LaCrosse.

$33K right now for a base model CXS(who needs navigation and such nonsense anyways?) from Cars Direct. Now, that's new. Used, they should drop to $25K or so when the 2007s come out in a few months, and $18-$20K when they are two years old. But if you really need a new car, then get it in a few months - the incentives on a 2006 model when the 2007s are out will be quite large. Probably be able to haggle to well under $30K.

wvgasguy

Nah. Cadillac Brougham styling won't look right on a small scale

You're right, I remember the Lincoln on the Granada platform. It's hard to be taken seriously in a luxury car that looks like a Granada.

Actually if the Impala looked like the pig nosed Camry, they may sell 400,000 of them as well. Well maybe not.

wvgasguy

MBs do tend to age well, really as well as any other car, if not better.

I had 3 BMW's in the 80's and those designs as well as the MB's will look good forever. (sort of like the 55 Chevy)