Hummm, to my eyes the HHR is another neat little wagon. Sort of a soccer mom van. The PT was designed to look like the 1930's cars of whiskey runner days-gone-bye. I did not realize the cars of that era were effeminate, so thanks for letting us know :P The GUY that designed the PT jumped ship from Chrysler to GM a year after, and later did the work on the HHR. If female engineers did indeed do most of the work on the PT, it is a job well done. The ergonomics of the car work well. The interior is much nicer than most any domestic, and may be classed more in the range of a German car interior. Bring on more effeminate cars!
They do have a twist on the retro. The new Camaro is a Mack truck in width, has those awful high doors like a 350Z, and bling-bling wagon wheel sized rims. What more could the image is everything car buyer want? Oh yeah, a couple of tons in weight, no doubt. -Loren
question for cadillac STS owners or anyone familiar with the current STS. I was on a highway yesterday and saw a silver STS V6 with a donut on it. Someone pls tell me GM does not supply this 40k + vehicle with a donut. I could not belive my eyes when i saw this.
If I build it like Johnny Cash did it would cost $100,000 and would have NO warranty.
Also, if you built it like Johnny Cash did, I imagine the headlights would be really a sight, with two on the left and one on the right, and down at the courthouse they wouldn't laugh, 'cuz the title work would take the the whole staff... :P
Just kidding. When you own a GM car, over time you either acquire a sense of humor about them, or live in constant despair. Been there, done that. Kinda like the CTS, and Lucerne, in a way. Ya never know, could try another GM car. Heck the fourth time is a charm. The new cars are not as bad as the mid-70's to 2000. Well I hope not anyway. Some of the new stuff looks more solid and ready to compete with the Japan/Korea and German cars now. Could give it a go. You can always make new friends that way. You know, all the people at service become your good old friends after the numerous visits. Seriously, the upper class stuff now a GM is starting to look much better than the stuff produced during the dark ages of the domestic car market. -Loren
First, I have never owned a Camry but I am a big fan. If I needed a car in that market it would be my first choice. I don't care about being a sheep. It is simply the best value for the dollar, and is virtually risk free.
One thing about the 07 Camry. I was not a big fan, when the first one went by me on the highway I thought.....what have they done! And although I agree it looks like a wharthog, it does grow on you a bit. I saw one parked and it does have a few things going for it. I still think they should make 2 versions though for the senior/conservative crowd who liked the pleasing smooth no nonsense lines in the last version, and this new one to attract younger buyers...which is what they are trying to do...and IMO it will do that.
I assume the donut is the ever popular Continental look?
Haaaa. I started to write that but figured someone would think I was being a wise crack Toyo owner. I assume he's talking of the spare on the ground, not the bumper. Although a lot of Caddie's I see look better with the Continental bumper (kidding)
I assume the donut is the ever popular Continental look? If so-aftermarket.
I'm guessing by "donut" he meant those compact temporary spares, and that a car costing $40K or more should come with a standard-sized spare and NOT a donut.
Will a full-sized spare fit in the compartment on a newer RWD Caddy though? I know they're putting the spare under the trunk floor these days on RWD cars instead of just throwing them in the trunk itself, but often with RWD there are still space concerns. Or FWD too, because the more space you need for a full-sized tire, the less you have available for luggage space, as they'd have to raise the trunk floor.
When you own a GM car, over time you either acquire a sense of humor about them, or live in constant despair.
Really? I feel like I've been living in paradise for the last 25 years since purchasing my first GM car. If I have a bad day at work or home, I can alway take a ride in my Cadillac or Buick, put a few cool tunes on the stereo, and all my cares melt away.
I had 3 BMW's in the 80's and those designs as well as the MB's will look good forever. (sort of like the 55 Chevy) Exactly, good simple styling will always look good. 10 or 20 year old MB's, BMW's, Saab's, Jaguars will look good, because Europeans know how to style a car so it doesn't go out of style. Asia is a close second, with clean sensible styles that maintain there looks over the long haul. Only American cars had fins, excess chrome, vinyl rooves, spoke wheels (for decoration), landau roof, opera windows, continental kits (actual wheel on the rear bumper), fender skirts. These things work for awhile, but they get dated, and you have to buy a new one so you feel your car is up to date. Good sensible style will look good in 20 years.
I assume the donut is the ever popular Continental look? If so-aftermarket. Also available with vinyl on the roof. I think the donut is the little tire you put on when you get a flat! That would look silly on a Caddie, and why not just put regular spares back in. I know they save space and weight, but give me a break, if i am in the middle of nowhere it is nice to have a real tire.
donuts are "safe" up to 65 mph and actually safe past 70. Also should last 3000 miles so plenty of time to get to a convenient time and place to get the original fixed or replaced. Most drivers will not even be able to tell spare is on at normal driving manuevers and perfectly safe even doing higher handling.
OK, they are talking about the spare? First the donuts are perfectly safe.
Without going out to look at the manual, the last time I used one I believe top speed on a donut was 60 MPH and I believe there was a limited number of miles to go on it. Unfortunately, I had a flat tire, put the donut on, and had to go faster than the recommended or miss my flight. Would rather of had the real thing. The next problem is if you are a long ways out, you have to find a tire place who has the same tires as your other 3. Then you usually pay top dollar because you can't shop around. No, give me the good old real tire.
why the hell do they put fake wood in a suv starting at 60k? gm still doesnt know how to get things right. the solid real end is another example. i think gm makes me embarrased to be american :sick: :P :lemon:
if they'd take the Colorado pickup and apply some HHR styling cues to it. My only concern about making a pickup out of an HHR is that it probably wouldn't be able to haul much. But since when do people use pickup trucks for hauling, anyway? :P
Just a VW truck sort of thing, is what I was thinking. Yeah, just a sport truck for tooling around town and highway. Good gas mileage would be important. Just use the exact HHR to save money and for effect. -Loren
that I think would be cool would be if GM took the Silverado and gave it a skin job to make it look like something like a '53 GMC. Keep the regular Silverado/Sierra in production, but then offer a retro style with sheetmetal mods and some interior mods, and I think they'd have a good seller without having to invest a whole lot of money.
"a VW truck sort of thing" = Chevy Tornado (built in Mexico on the outgoing Opel Corsa platform). GM could bring it north a week after tomorrow if it wanted to.
I think plastic has been discussed in other forums. You might check some of the 'luxury' brands and see how many of them use 'plastic wood'.
Not sure about fake wood (that's what I didn't like on the Avalon and Camry XLE) but on my Infiniti FX45 I liked having heavy brushed aluminum trim rather than the silver plastic on most all cars that don't have the fake wood. I understand this is a $30,000 car and not a $50,000 car but with about $1000 in optional trim and sound proofing, which I would rather have than a sunroof) then many midsize cars could indeed pass as a base luxury car.
I do think it should be a crime to use plastic wood on an $60,000 SUV. Plastic wood is an imitation wood. If I want to say this is an imitation luxury car then I would use plastic. For 60 large it better be real (wood, carbon fiber or aluminum)
This link here is just plain wrong. I kinda like the second half. The front workings are just not right. Back to the drawing boards guys! Just thought of something, out of my little pea brain. The short overhang, while good for car stability, is not going to work well looks wise with every design concept. What was once a smooth flowing look to a car, can be come somewhat blunted by the front wheels or the back wheels moved to far to the corners. Is it just me, but the Scion with the tall doors, and wheel wells in the back don't look 100% right. Not a bad looking car, but a little fat in the middle, or something. Loren
Car did not do well at the shows. Not a good looking vehicle. Just all wrong. Reminds me too much on how the new retro T bird went wrong but much worse.
I think an HHR two door truck convertible would be a hot ticket. Perhaps with a removable back seat (no topover it). OK that part would never fly.
Earlier discussion on a wagon based on lets say a midsize sedan. Below is a major expense.
Here is what comes to mind to make it happen: Two rear quarter tools (very,very expensive) rear fascia tool ($1,000,000 in tools) new roof (very, very expensive) new rear side glass new rear hatch glass new rear hatch door and all internals new rear bumper workings new rear taillights new rear floor pan (very, very expensive) new gas tank up gaged wheels (for increased carrying capacity) new rear 2nd row seat new rear 3rd row seat new rear interior side trim new rear interior garnish trim new carpet Inerior sound proofing parts rear curtain air bags rear hatch interior trim rear hatch interior garnish trim New spare tire placement New muffler/exhaust All the engineering expense for the above All the development and testing All the safety tests!(big one here)
If a wagon is very expensive, and tools for things like rear fascia is expensive, then how does GM justify all the rebadging? Seems like the advertising and new tooling for the new taillights, fascias, etc., would cost a lot. Then there's the duplicative advertising. Why not just build a world-class sedan once?
...how does GM justify all the rebadging? Seems like the advertising and new tooling for the new taillights, fascias, etc., would cost a lot. Then there's the duplicative advertising. Why not just build a world-class sedan once?
They seem to actual prefer building several mediocre brand-killing models, rather than creating one bona fide good one. Very odd, perhaps losing market share is part of the new strategy?
It would be nice if your question was posed at the next shareholders meeting, and that this question received a forthright answer. (And no, "Impala and Malibu are world class sedans" would not be an acceptable answer.)
You know, if GM could quit rebadging, saving almost all of the "expensive" costs as described by 62vetteefp, then they could build ONE new car (say it's a new Malibu, or whatever). Put in it:
- world class 4 cyl engine (need to design one) - style it to be awesome looking - put an Audi-level interior in it - independent suspension, great handling and steering - you could offer it at trim levels that really mean something, and charge premiums for nav, Bose, etc.
Make it so good that the automotive press is *shocked*! CU, R&T, C&D, Edmunds - think of the buzz this car would get! A GM sedan equal to or better than Accord, Camry! Even if GM lost money on every one, think of the prestige rebuilding that would occur! You couldn't BUY that kind of advertising (Motherhood, Baseball, Apple Pie, Chevrolet!) any other way. Hyundai appears to be using this approach to some degree.
Wouldn't a world-class car be the best advertising of all?
How much longer can GM afford to not realize that the current strategy is losing them market share big time?
Never liked the four cylinder domestics compared to Japan makes. They may as well stay with V6 and V8, which they sometimes do get right.
How would you rank the base CTS and second to base Lucerne models of cars? Close? I still think CTS needs standard telescopic steering columns and standard lumbar support for their seating. Other than that, it is pretty fair package. Not all the goodies of the Azera, but it is RWD and a Cadillac. Oh yeah, Art & Science Style. Can't find that anywhere else. That edgy, and a bit strange in some ways styling is a great classic look, I hope they do not ruin by toning it down any.
Lucerne got the DTS chassis. Blessing or curse??? What happened to Oldsmobile after the Aurora project went Cadillac to Olds? Oh no, not an omen? -Loren
that Bel Air concept was actually built on a modified Trailblazer platform, which might explain it's tall, ungainly proportions. Also, somebody needs to remind these stylists, including those that did the last T-bird, that most 50's cars had a forward thrust to them, and that's what gave them much of their identity. Rake it back and you lose that, totally. The Bel Air concept looks like it's wearing the fascia from a mid-70's Monza wagon. But then the T-bird really looks more like a '53 or so 'Vette to me than a first-gen T-bird. The Corvettes didn't have that forward thrust to them that the T-bird did.
And the Bel Air's windshield/A-pillar was more 50's Mopar than it was 50's GM. And that beltline toward the rear is more of the 1965 GM "Coke Bottle" look than it is the '55-57 beltline dip. At least with something like the new Mustang, the (hopefully) upcoming Challenger, and even the HHR, you can look at them and tell what the stylists were striving for. I just couldn't see that with the Bel Air though. If you stripped all the nameplates off of it, and didn't tell me what it was supposed to ape, I never would have guessed it.
Neways, I'm pretty confident that my memory is serving me correctly that the trim in The Escalade is real wood, I think burled Walnut ?. I do know the Tahoe/Yukon use a new high-tech plastic wood. I'm not certain on the Yukon Denali, but I'd guess it has the plastic wood too.
I also can't believe some will stereotype Escalade drivers as all being drug dealers. :mad: I know plenty of good folks that drive Escalades, that are very far from drug dealers. :mad:
That's very sad to hear pal. My Stepdad just found out 2 days ago he is getting hired. He waited 25 years to work for General Motors, which unfortunately it's a Delphi plant but they will rebound. I'm excited for him, but they sid if he wanted to learn screw machines he'd have a better chance at retention. I honestly believe this whole Delphi BK thang is an attempt to squash big labor. I'm at the point now where I'm done caring about americans. Many obviously don't care either. It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm only going to care abut my family and close friends, instead of everyone else. Time has proven me right so far and I'm going to be right about the future.
geo9, once again tell your cousin to keep his head-up.
Rocky
P.S. If it makes you feel any better about 6-months ago I stuck my application in at Toyota, and they just finally responded to me. I'm not qualified. :surprise: LOL LOL
I know many here feel that GM badge engineers a lot of vehicles today but maybe the definition of badge engineering needs to be agreed on. I think to the press and public a badge engineered vehicle like the past (the C cars on the magazine cover) is much more rare.
In GM I can name a couple and usually it is done to cover a product planning error (and do not always blame the guys in that department-ususally upper management says to spend their money elsewhere) or "unseen" change in the market.
For GM I see these vehicles as badge engineered today:
torrent / Equinox-done to give Pontiac/GMC dealers a small crossover SUV.
Cobalt / Pursuit (2 door only)-Mistake on GM's part not to give Pontiac a small 2 seater-product planning error!!
Large trucks-GM has been getting away with this one for years having both a Chevrolet and GMC look the same. I dunno, it seems to work anyway.
Saab/Rainier -standalone Saab dealers in trouble as we all know. GM tried to do something about it.
Now the above are what I would call badge engineered (even though it is much more than just badges). I cannot think of any others. As far as costs the changes could be done with a small team and a minimal controllable budget. Expense is when you start messing with black metal and major sheet metal/interior revisions. These are majors.
I think the reason GM has all the marques has been discussed here plenty of times. GM probably wishes they had a few less brands but really hard to kill one once you have them. Saab is doing well in Europe now and maybe it should go anyway. Hummer is making boat loads of money and bringing in non GM buyers. Cadillac is doing well. Chevrolet is selling trucks and has 2 cars in the top 10. GMC is selling boatloads of profitable trucks. Saturn seems to be getting its act together. About the only two that could go are Pontiac and Buick and there is not much left to them anymore anyway.
About the only two that could go are Pontiac and Buick and there is not much left to them anymore anyway.
Buick will have some hot cars. I'm starting to see alot of Lucernes and LaCrosses down here. Once Buick goes to RWD and offers a little bit more in performance and a 6-speed automatic it will take off. Pontiac needs to be "over-hualed" and the G8 Sedan should help save them ONLY if GM does it right. What I mean is it needs to be less Charger like and more Acura TL-ish/Lexus IS-350-ish with a Big V-8
I have had a loaded silver Camry Hybrid (leather, Nav, Roof etc) for one week now. I traded in a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and have been enjoying my new performance vehicle very much. I have 315 miles and am just now at a half tank. (That is a new experience). The 405 HP in the Caddy was fun on the rare occasions you could get away from traffic and actually use it but it was by far a more crude interpretation of an automobile than this Camry.
And you guys thought I was not thinking rational when I traded in my Infiniti FX45 for a hybrid.
PS: Never send a ferret to do a weasels job (Is that your company slogan?)
Sure, life's good with my Buicks and Cadillacs. I've found what works for me.
By the way, I have tried the others. I've had enough experience with VW to stay away. I've seriously considered a Mercedes S-Class, but maintenance and repair costs as well as my brother-in-law's experience with his 2000 S430 have frightened me off.
I've come close to buying a Lexus LS430. I drove the car expecting it to be a quantum leap over my cars due to the hype, and what was it like? It felt exactly like a Buick!
My only experience with Korean cars is my brother's 2000 and 2005 Hyundai Sonatas. He seems happy with them. However, Hyundai managed to upset both of us when they started copying existing Japanese designs! Who wants an imitation Accord?
The criticism of similar models as an extra expense doesn't cut it. Adding models, with/without changes, under another label is done all the time in the business world to compete with other companies. Marathon Oil has stations in our area under different names and some people don't even realize they are all owned by Marathon. The company sells more because of the additional choices to compete with the foreign brands.
Even prepaid cell phones have badge-engineered a competitor for themselves on the shelves at Walmart et al to compete with Virgin and whatever others are the choices there on the rack.
Look at PG with the choices in various household products, specifically laundry soaps on the shelve competing with themselves but garnering more total market vs the foreign brands on the shelves. Just selling Tide wouldn't have gained as much market share for PG as this method that's worked for decades.
Comments
I think the El Camino would be a good
retro. Much better than SSR.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think the El Camino would be a good
retro. Much better than SSR.
Excellent choice! Utility as well as retro looks.
If I build it like Johnny Cash did it would cost $100,000 and would have NO warranty. If I built it it may never run either.
They do have a twist on the retro. The new Camaro is a Mack truck in width, has those awful high doors like a 350Z, and bling-bling wagon wheel sized rims. What more could the image is everything car buyer want? Oh yeah, a couple of tons in weight, no doubt.
-Loren
Also, if you built it like Johnny Cash did, I imagine the headlights would be really a sight, with two on the left and one on the right, and down at the courthouse they wouldn't laugh, 'cuz the title work would take the the whole staff... :P
Just kidding. When you own a GM car, over time you either acquire a sense of humor about them, or live in constant despair. Been there, done that. Kinda like the CTS, and Lucerne, in a way. Ya never know, could try another GM car. Heck the fourth time is a charm. The new cars are not as bad as the mid-70's to 2000. Well I hope not anyway. Some of the new stuff looks more solid and ready to compete with the Japan/Korea and German cars now. Could give it a go. You can always make new friends that way. You know, all the people at service become your good old friends after the numerous visits.
Seriously, the upper class stuff now a GM is starting to look much better than the stuff produced during the dark ages of the domestic car market.
-Loren
One thing about the 07 Camry. I was not a big fan, when the first one went by me on the highway I thought.....what have they done!
And although I agree it looks like a wharthog, it does grow on you a bit. I saw one parked and it does have a few things going for it.
I still think they should make 2 versions though for the senior/conservative crowd who liked the pleasing smooth no nonsense lines in the last version, and this new one to attract younger buyers...which is what they are trying to do...and IMO it will do that.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Haaaa. I started to write that but figured someone would think I was being a wise crack Toyo owner. I assume he's talking of the spare on the ground, not the bumper. Although a lot of Caddie's I see look better with the Continental bumper (kidding)
I'm guessing by "donut" he meant those compact temporary spares, and that a car costing $40K or more should come with a standard-sized spare and NOT a donut.
Will a full-sized spare fit in the compartment on a newer RWD Caddy though? I know they're putting the spare under the trunk floor these days on RWD cars instead of just throwing them in the trunk itself, but often with RWD there are still space concerns. Or FWD too, because the more space you need for a full-sized tire, the less you have available for luggage space, as they'd have to raise the trunk floor.
Really? I feel like I've been living in paradise for the last 25 years since purchasing my first GM car. If I have a bad day at work or home, I can alway take a ride in my Cadillac or Buick, put a few cool tunes on the stereo, and all my cares melt away.
I took a quick look at lux cars and see what they used.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=GGxPVnJkklJ- CL3TvZ4xJyDCmw5nlQhgFgtDwVtTphynnLSz35Xhp!1949851225?styleid=100509388&styleid=1- 00548788&styleid=100528413&styleid=100507856&styleid=100521414&maxvehicles=5&ref- id=&op=3&tab=features
The 430, 5 and M45 all have donuts. A6 has matching road wheel
Exactly, good simple styling will always look good. 10 or 20 year old MB's, BMW's, Saab's, Jaguars will look good, because Europeans know how to style a car so it doesn't go out of style. Asia is a close second, with clean sensible styles that maintain there looks over the long haul. Only American cars had fins, excess chrome, vinyl rooves, spoke wheels (for decoration), landau roof, opera windows, continental kits (actual wheel on the rear bumper), fender skirts. These things work for awhile, but they get dated, and you have to buy a new one so you feel your car is up to date.
Good sensible style will look good in 20 years.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think the donut is the little tire you put on when you get a flat!
That would look silly on a Caddie, and why not just put regular spares back in. I know they save space and weight, but give me a break, if i am in the middle of nowhere it is nice to have a real tire.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Without going out to look at the manual, the last time I used one I believe top speed on a donut was 60 MPH and I believe there was a limited number of miles to go on it. Unfortunately, I had a flat tire, put the donut on, and had to go faster than the recommended or miss my flight.
Would rather of had the real thing. The next problem is if you are a long ways out, you have to find a tire place who has the same tires as your other 3. Then you usually pay top dollar because you can't shop around. No, give me the good old real tire.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Anyway I thought the point of the HHR was a "retro" Suburban as not to try to copy the PT.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And a Mid-Engine Corvair would be nice, as well as, the Nova, which could also be the chassis for the Camaro.
-Loren
-Loren
-Loren
-Loren
Not sure about fake wood (that's what I didn't like on the Avalon and Camry XLE) but on my Infiniti FX45 I liked having heavy brushed aluminum trim rather than the silver plastic on most all cars that don't have the fake wood. I understand this is a $30,000 car and not a $50,000 car but with about $1000 in optional trim and sound proofing, which I would rather have than a sunroof) then many midsize cars could indeed pass as a base luxury car.
I do think it should be a crime to use plastic wood on an $60,000 SUV. Plastic wood is an imitation wood. If I want to say this is an imitation luxury car then I would use plastic. For 60 large it better be real (wood, carbon fiber or aluminum)
And Caddy and Buick are fine. Don't you ever try anything different like a German, Japan, or Korean make of car?
-Loren
Loren
I think an HHR two door truck convertible would be a hot ticket. Perhaps with a removable back seat (no topover it). OK that part would never fly.
Here is what comes to mind to make it happen:
Two rear quarter tools (very,very expensive)
rear fascia tool ($1,000,000 in tools)
new roof (very, very expensive)
new rear side glass
new rear hatch glass
new rear hatch door and all internals
new rear bumper workings
new rear taillights
new rear floor pan (very, very expensive)
new gas tank
up gaged wheels (for increased carrying capacity)
new rear 2nd row seat
new rear 3rd row seat
new rear interior side trim
new rear interior garnish trim
new carpet
Inerior sound proofing parts
rear curtain air bags
rear hatch interior trim
rear hatch interior garnish trim
New spare tire placement
New muffler/exhaust
All the engineering expense for the above
All the development and testing
All the safety tests!(big one here)
Seriously though you make a very good and valid point.
Well, taste is individual. I think the new Camry is miles better than the previous one in looks.
They seem to actual prefer building several mediocre brand-killing models, rather than creating one bona fide good one. Very odd, perhaps losing market share is part of the new strategy?
It would be nice if your question was posed at the next shareholders meeting, and that this question received a forthright answer. (And no, "Impala and Malibu are world class sedans" would not be an acceptable answer.)
- world class 4 cyl engine (need to design one)
- style it to be awesome looking
- put an Audi-level interior in it
- independent suspension, great handling and steering
- you could offer it at trim levels that really mean something, and charge premiums for nav, Bose, etc.
Make it so good that the automotive press is *shocked*! CU, R&T, C&D, Edmunds - think of the buzz this car would get! A GM sedan equal to or better than Accord, Camry! Even if GM lost money on every one, think of the prestige rebuilding that would occur! You couldn't BUY that kind of advertising (Motherhood, Baseball, Apple Pie, Chevrolet!) any other way. Hyundai appears to be using this approach to some degree.
Wouldn't a world-class car be the best advertising of all?
How much longer can GM afford to not realize that the current strategy is losing them market share big time?
How would you rank the base CTS and second to base Lucerne models of cars? Close? I still think CTS needs standard telescopic steering columns and standard lumbar support for their seating. Other than that, it is pretty fair package. Not all the goodies of the Azera, but it is RWD and a Cadillac. Oh yeah, Art & Science Style. Can't find that anywhere else. That edgy, and a bit strange in some ways styling is a great classic look, I hope they do not ruin by toning it down any.
Lucerne got the DTS chassis. Blessing or curse??? What happened to Oldsmobile after the Aurora project went Cadillac to Olds? Oh no, not an omen?
-Loren
And the Bel Air's windshield/A-pillar was more 50's Mopar than it was 50's GM. And that beltline toward the rear is more of the 1965 GM "Coke Bottle" look than it is the '55-57 beltline dip. At least with something like the new Mustang, the (hopefully) upcoming Challenger, and even the HHR, you can look at them and tell what the stylists were striving for. I just couldn't see that with the Bel Air though. If you stripped all the nameplates off of it, and didn't tell me what it was supposed to ape, I never would have guessed it.
I also can't believe some will stereotype Escalade drivers as all being drug dealers. :mad: I know plenty of good folks that drive Escalades, that are very far from drug dealers. :mad:
Rocky
geo9, once again tell your cousin to keep his head-up.
Rocky
P.S.
If it makes you feel any better about 6-months ago I stuck my application in at Toyota, and they just finally responded to me. I'm not qualified. :surprise:
LOL
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/AUTO01/606060347
Rocky
In GM I can name a couple and usually it is done to cover a product planning error (and do not always blame the guys in that department-ususally upper management says to spend their money elsewhere) or "unseen" change in the market.
For GM I see these vehicles as badge engineered today:
torrent / Equinox-done to give Pontiac/GMC dealers a small crossover SUV.
Cobalt / Pursuit (2 door only)-Mistake on GM's part not to give Pontiac a small 2 seater-product planning error!!
Large trucks-GM has been getting away with this one for years having both a Chevrolet and GMC look the same. I dunno, it seems to work anyway.
Saab/Rainier -standalone Saab dealers in trouble as we all know. GM tried to do something about it.
Now the above are what I would call badge engineered (even though it is much more than just badges). I cannot think of any others. As far as costs the changes could be done with a small team and a minimal controllable budget. Expense is when you start messing with black metal and major sheet metal/interior revisions. These are majors.
I think the reason GM has all the marques has been discussed here plenty of times. GM probably wishes they had a few less brands but really hard to kill one once you have them. Saab is doing well in Europe now and maybe it should go anyway. Hummer is making boat loads of money and bringing in non GM buyers. Cadillac is doing well. Chevrolet is selling trucks and has 2 cars in the top 10. GMC is selling boatloads of profitable trucks. Saturn seems to be getting its act together. About the only two that could go are Pontiac and Buick and there is not much left to them anymore anyway.
Let the dirt fly!
Buick will have some hot cars. I'm starting to see alot of Lucernes and LaCrosses down here. Once Buick goes to RWD and offers a little bit more in performance and a 6-speed automatic it will take off. Pontiac needs to be "over-hualed" and the G8 Sedan should help save them ONLY if GM does it right. What I mean is it needs to be less Charger like and more Acura TL-ish/Lexus IS-350-ish with a Big V-8
Rocky
I have had a loaded silver Camry Hybrid (leather, Nav, Roof etc) for one week now. I traded in a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and have been enjoying my new performance vehicle very much. I have 315 miles and am just now at a half tank. (That is a new experience). The 405 HP in the Caddy was fun on the rare occasions you could get away from traffic and actually use it but it was by far a more crude interpretation of an automobile than this Camry.
And you guys thought I was not thinking rational when I traded in my Infiniti FX45 for a hybrid.
PS: Never send a ferret to do a weasels job (Is that your company slogan?)
By the way, I have tried the others. I've had enough experience with VW to stay away. I've seriously considered a Mercedes S-Class, but maintenance and repair costs as well as my brother-in-law's experience with his 2000 S430 have frightened me off.
I've come close to buying a Lexus LS430. I drove the car expecting it to be a quantum leap over my cars due to the hype, and what was it like? It felt exactly like a Buick!
My only experience with Korean cars is my brother's 2000 and 2005 Hyundai Sonatas. He seems happy with them. However, Hyundai managed to upset both of us when they started copying existing Japanese designs! Who wants an imitation Accord?
Even prepaid cell phones have badge-engineered a competitor for themselves on the shelves at Walmart et al to compete with Virgin and whatever others are the choices there on the rack.
Look at PG with the choices in various household products, specifically laundry soaps on the shelve competing with themselves but garnering more total market vs the foreign brands on the shelves. Just selling Tide wouldn't have gained as much market share for PG as this method that's worked for decades.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,