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2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Max Horsepower: 6200 rpm Torque: 248 ft-lbs.
5 sp automatic
Lucerne* $29K Horsepower: 197 hp
Max Horsepower: 5200 rpm Torque: 227 ft-lbs.
4 sp automatic
Chrysler 300 touring $29K Horsepower: 250 hp
Max Horsepower: 6400 rpm Torque: 250 ft-lbs.
5 sp automatic, RWD
* Safeway’s Lucerne trademark is a black-and-white Jersey cow
Loren
The difference between the Avalon and Lucerne with respect to price is very simple, the Avalon is IN demand, Lucerne is NOT. Only a GM stockholder would by a Lucerne.
Didn't GM learn their lesson with the Olds Aurora?
Loren
I got the chance to see a black Lucerne CXS and had to go back the next day to get another glimpse. Not many cars will do that to me.
I really think General Motors quality is meeting consumer expectations with their new vehicle launches. The Buick Lucerne will suprise even the most anti GM critic. :shades:
Rocky
Rocky
The only thing that hurts this great car is Buicks stingy past.
Rocky
Only a GM hater would love the Camry Avalon.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ford, Chrysler don't come close to having the amount of haters that GM has. However of course GM has a strong consumer base that I believe will grow once again.
Rocky
A good video on the Lucerne under the Buick icon.
Rocky
WHOA !!!!!!
I really like this car alot and now it will be even better.
Rocky
The hatred goes back for some to the 70s when GM was huge and produced the best cars. That would include Consumer Reports and their writers.
The hatred goes to scapegoating; it's fun to have someone to pick at, sort of like the Cubs some years.
Ford screwed me several different ways and when they did it with a 73 Torino timing chain at 70 K mi., I traded the car before it was back from repair for a 77 Cutlass and swore I'd never own another Ford. I reneged on that when I won a 79 Pacecar Turbo 4 cyl in a radio station contest. Kept that car 9 months and sold it cash. But I don't spend time in the Ford discussions bashing Fords. Mustang is best thing they've done lately!!! Great retro; great current car for two people.
If you note some never have anything good to say about what's changed at GM last decade. The only purpose is to stir the pot. Others have a level perception of what's wrong and what's been good and what's improving.
Now that there are many more car companies selling cars here than in the late 80s early 90s, the share for each company will be down. But even that's turned into a negative.
Lucerne is a great car. I think it eclipses the LaCrosse a little more than it should LaCrosse needs some style change, much like the perfect Honda Accord had its butt improved this year--three years too late. Will they get rid of the rattles?; even ConReport notes body integrity problems with Honda. Read the Odyssey and Pilot and Accord and Civic discussions; their problems with transmissions have exceeded typical and other problems are occurring at typical rates now--more than in the past years.
GM is saddled with healthcare and labor contract and management cost problems the others don't have (yet). Judging by how they can fire at will in most cases, the others will not get those problems.
How will GM get out from under bad plants and contracts? The cars are improving. But states and cities are trying to buy keeping plants in their area with various money offers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
However, if it's a car that GM really wants to compare with Avalons, Chrysler 300's, Lexuses, etc, the 3.8 is not the engine to do it with.
This probably isn't the best route to go either, but maybe they could just make a cheaper version of it that looks different enough, badge it as a Chevy Caprice or something, and use that to satisfy fleet buyers and people who just want an inexpensive, big roomy car. And then for the Buick version, either put in a premium V-6, or just make them all V-8 across the board. If they sold enough V-6 models of this hypothetical Chevy version, that would offset the increased sales of V-8 Buick models for CAFE purposes.
As for the Avalon, I actually liked the style of the new one when it first came out, and they do have nice, comfy interiors (as did the 2000-04 model). But now it just seems like the style is growing old on me, and looks a bit dumpy. It's starting to make me think of a slightly more attractive Maxima.
Personally, only the 300 looks like something I would own. The Avalon and Lucerne may be good looking luxo cars, but at this stage in life I want more style, and fun. For $29K you could have a heck of a lot more fun in a Stang. Anyway, back to the stats.... which stats favor GM cars? Are the car review people all out to kill GM? Is this one of those right wing conspiracy theories? If a person wants a luxury car for cruising, the DTS alias DeVille, used is not a bad option. In a year or two you can get your dream car for the $29K, with a heck of lot more bells & whistles and real engine compared to the Lucerne. Just think a year or two used and ya got it! I am over 50, learned to drive on a LaSabre, but have not been too impressed with the company since the last of the great ones, like the Riveras of days-gone-bye. The soul is gone. They are but general cars, as in generic GM. Just dump the branding, and make them all GM brand cars. OK, save the Cadillac name. BTW, which car reviews, in comparison testing, did the Cadillacs win? Must be some? Somewhere?
Loren
Anyone out there driven the new Fusion yet? Not a bad looking little sedan. If bought around $18K, it seems like a pretty fair deal. Looks newer than the Cobalt, and more car for the money. Oh yeah, it is suppose to compete with the Malibu. Hummm, if you can get beyond the looks of the Malibu, and find one for $18K, maybe the cars do compete well. And then there is Cobalt SS vs. Civic Si, which was no contest. Oh well, the new Impala, while still FWD, is looking good. Pretty slick looking super sized Accord, when bought at Red Tag Price, or Sale of the Day, looks like fair competition to the Accord. Taken at actual price paid, it would be an interesting contest to do for a car magazine review. As for the Cobalt, the base model is good for what it is, econo, when bought for say $12-$14K.
Loren
Keep two badges: Chevy and Cadillac, the former for price point and the latter for premium/luxury status. Yes, jobs will be lost, however, the money saved from the salaries of those responsible for rebadging could be transferred to the quality of materials and engineering departments. (Drive a late model Malibu and Civic back-to-back and you'll know what I'm talking about.)
While it's great (and about time) GM gave their bread and butter full-sized SUV's makeover's, what innovations did they make? They had a clean sheet of paper and that's the best they could come up with in regards to the center stack dash design? Draw a square, surround it with a panel of fake wood (or is it fake plastic...) and call it good. And this is on their $40,000 vehicles!
The best vehicles in their lineup are the Corvette and Solstice. That's due to the objective and the effort put into them.
As for the rest of the lineup, if you don't have the funds to do it right, what's the point in doing it at all? Save the money and put it into projects that will make a difference.
Do any of you think this is a good idea ????
Rocky
I do agree the PERFECT Japanese Cars (camcords) do have some flaws. The yellow press and public overlooks the squeaks and rattles. It amazes me. WHY ????
Rocky
Loren
Caddy (absorbs Buick)
Chevy (absorbs Pontiac and GMC)
Saturn
Then -
Hummer (will fade off into the sunset)
Saab (why bother with this?)
If bankruptcy is around the corner for GM then a realignment like this will surely streamline the company, shed the strangling legacy costs, and make GM a money-making machine. GM obviously was thrown a lifevest when this silly Suburban/Tahoe thing took off. The days where that product is showcased and generates the most money are over.
What do you mean the press overlooks them? Maybe the Camry and Accord didn't rattle in their Camry and accord that the press tested. I'll agree with you as a Honda fan they have to work the rattles(body integrity issues)out of their products.
As for the Camry and had rattles there were rattles in the 02 and some early 03 Camry's. Toyota has their "body integrity" issues worked out on the Camry I think since early 03 Camry models.
I just want to note one last thing everybody thinks there is a big conspiracy against GM. I don't think there is one. Hey their Caddy line is selling great so where is the conspiracy theory with their Caddy line? There is none. The Equinox car-based SUV for Chevy has had great popularity at least where I live. GM's newer mid-size cars are not selling well like the 04 Grand Prix, 04 Malibu, and 05 G6. Thats where GM's problem's lie in the 20K-25K price range for their cars.
I liked the 98-99 Avalon bodystyle. The 00-04 was like 15 steps backwrds in therms of exterior styling for the Avalon. The new one looks better than the 00-04 bodystyle but still doesn't look as good as the 98-99 Avalon.
Good idea but also GMC for trucks.
While it's great (and about time) GM gave their bread and butter full-sized SUV's makeover's, what innovations did they make?
True it looks like another rehash of the same old thing.
Just like the last restyle.
Their cars are quite reliable, but they are priced a little higher than their value and their dealerships are staffed with some of the rudest SOB's to have ever lived.
I've never been able to take a test-drive of a Toyota on a highway, for pete's sake, because Toyota salesman will not allow it! (at least the one's I've had to deal with).
Volkswagen, BMW, Mini, Mercedes, Volvo... at least their salesman TRY to get you to test out the performance of their cars in a test-drive.
Toyota salemen don't. And they actively try and hide it.
:mad:
They are sort of like a modern day Oldsmobile, with a bit tighter handling. Good and capable of getting the job done.
Oh yeah, and very quiet.
Loren
Rocky
rockylee calls anyone who doesn't like GM "yellow." I am assuming this is a racial slur toward asians and wonder why HOST pf flyer allows Roccky to degrade asians. You hear that pf?????
We all know what assume means don't we.
Rocky doesn't seem like he'd be a racist.
And no, GM is not being picked on by this method.
Loren
To the contrary, my 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer LTZ started rattling and squeaking with 1,500 miles on the clock. Bought it brand new and it turned out to be the biggest POS that I have EVER owned in my entire life. In fact, it was THE WORST 'mechanical thing' that I have ever owned. I would post a list of the problems that I had with it but no one here has enough time to read them all. Also, there's probably not enough bandwidth to handle a post of that nature!
Ron M.
But anyone thinking that this is some kind of 'conspiracy' against GM needs to think again. GM has had many, many years to correct its competitive positioning - and it failed to do so, for whatever reasons. As a former employee who worked at GM in late 89 through 94, I can tell you first hand that complacency is the single word that best describes GM over the past years -- rest on its laurels for what is profitable today (big luxury cars of the 70's and early 80's, SUV's in the 90s), make money now (bypass hybrid technology - Lutz said himself that GM would not focus on such a small market like hybrids back in '03), 'hope' that the future will get better (stick with big trucks and SUV's as the emphasis), and hope the competitors will stumble. GM was the king of cost-cutting, but after a certain point, cost-cutting diminishes any gains in productivity and reduced costs, and it ultimately only makes your product cheap... the Chevy Cobalt is a perfect example. The car is probably built better and tighter than the prior Cavalier, but honestly - who thinks it really LOOKS better than the former Cavalier? The old Ford Falcon had more character than the Cobalt, and it was considered 'bland' in its day. It's dull. I have a friend who bought the coupe, and after 5000 miles - he wishes he had purchased another make. Just like the rest of Chevrolet ... dull. The 'Heartbeat of America' needs a resuscitation - fast. Introducing a string of 'SS' models over the next few months will do little to change that either.
The Solstice looks to be a promising car, although I saw one with the top up the other day, and it looked pretty cheesy from a distance (I could be wrong - I haven't driven one yet.)
Styling? Imagine a 2006 'Firebird' - that would probably resemble much of the original '67 model - no body cladding, no rear spoiler, no screaming chicken on the hood - but a refined, 2-door, road-car with restrained yet unique styling Pontiac queues (the look of the Endura bumper nose and slotted taillamps -- or something entirely different) It would be a direct competitor to the Mustang, but should be benchmarked during design against the tolerances of a Mercedes or BMW. The car may need a new name - the last Firebirds did little to interest the masses... If the car was engineered right - not slapped together using a parts bin in typical GM fashion, the car would not only sell well at sticker price, but it would give buyers a GM car to be excited about purchasing. The current GTO was an attempt at this concept, but poorly done. The car may have the power under the hood, but it isn't a car that you look at and say 'wow, I want one of those!'
GM also needs to return to building stylish, reliable, 4-door sedans. The Impala may be a better car overall, but the new styling says 'park me in the rental car lot when you're done'. I think Chevy could have taken the design much further to make the car more distinctive. And what's up with the 'new' Monte Carlo? To Chevy designers - there's nothing 'new' about the Monte Carlo - placing an Impala front-end on the prior model and call it 'new' is just another GM new-wannabe. The new Lucerne looks like Geritol on wheels. And even the Grand Prix looks - well, out of proportion. The '97-'03 GP model was a far cleaner and smoother design, and seemed to be more popular. GM does have a dominance in the truck market today -- but Toyota's new trucks and wide range of SUV's, Nissan's Titan (despite its quality problems), and even Honda's odd Ridgeline will ultimately eat away at GM's market share... and look for Kia and Hyundai to begin knocking away at that share as well.
GM could learn a great deal from its Corvette development team. It amazes me how the 'Vette has continued to show remarkable improvement over the years - particularly with C5 and C6, but the rest of the Chevy lineup has gone to the dogs.
Cadillac has also been a surprising exception - I don't care for the edgy look, or for its fleet of trucks (I never would have guessed the success of the Escalade) but many do appreciate some of the latest Caddys - and that's what counts. The division is far improved over it's downsized, pint-sized Eldo and Seville models of the late 80's.
You want to see good evolution in a car design? Look at Honda's new Civic. It's not for everyone - (even I'm not crazy about the gee-whiz dashboard), but the car has evolved to become a respected, well-built, popular car for the masses... with the sedan and coupe styled independently, it truly meets the needs of a very broad market base - and guess what? They're selling very well according to the local Honda dealers - with few if any discounts. I've driven the coupe - and when I think about the first Civics in the 70's, it's hard to believe that the Civic has evolved to such a nice package it is today.
I truly wish and hope that GM will do a 180 - and turn itself around. I think the company does need to continue to close out divisions - it cannot continue to build several different makes in its current cost structure with the continued competition of Japan and Germany, and now the throes of South Korea. I'd expect GM to file for bankruptcy protection soon - I honestly hope I'm wrong - for the sake of its workers, and for the sake of its vendors who depend on GM business.
I'll be attending the 2006 North American Int'l Auto Show in Detroit in a couple of weeks - maybe my impressions of GM and its 2006 models will have been swayed for the better. I'll let you know.
Could it even possibly be out of gas? Way to go?
I doubt it - why would the guy raise the hood and be looking around under there? This reminds me of a recent C&D long term test of the Cadillac SRX - that thing kept dying randomly all over the place. This is an embarrasment for GM.
Well anyways I am going gloat a bit. I have strongly believed this for a long time. CREATURE FEATURES ARE THE FUTURE FOR SUCCESS. Have I not said that ?????
Well this article seems to feel the same way.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060103/AUTO04/601030331/1148- /AUTO01
Rocky
P.S.
My former Acura TL rattled more than my daughters hand baby rattle :P
First, if it weren't for the rental car business and large pickups and SUVs, GM would be out of business in southern California. I was shocked at how few GM cars were on the road, and how many of those were rental cars. I saw fewer Corvettes than Porsches in Los Angeles.
Second, the rented Monte Carlo, while not a bad car, was a good example of why GM is in trouble.
The handling and ride were definitely biased toward the pillow-soft school of suspension tuning. Granted, some buyers prefer that type of ride-and-handling compromise, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I thought that GM is keeping the Buick division for those buyers.
Shouldn't the suspensions of Chevys be tuned more aggressively, as they must sell against not only Toyotas, but also Hondas and even Fords (which usually have decent handling)? If not, why does GM have all of those divisions in the first place? What is the point of making five variations of the same car?
The design of the car - both inside and out - was bland with a capital "B," which can't be a good thing for a coupe that is supposed to be a cut above garden-variety sedans in the style department. The original Monte Carlo was a very handsome car ("a Chevelle in a dinner jacket"), and while the second-generation model may have been a bit baroque, judging by its sales figures, it struck a chord with the public.
With the new model, I kept asking, "Why is GM making this car? Who are the target buyers?" Somehow, I don't think even GM management knows the answer to those questions.
The overall impression I was left with was...no real impression. It wasn't a bad car, but it wasn't really memorable in any way. (The best things about it were the heater-air conditioner-defroster and the radio. The worst were the handling and the seats, which were very uncomfortable for my lower back. My wife, however, did not complain about the seats.)
This can't be a good thing for GM. In a stagnant market, GM needs to conquest sales from other manufacturers if it hopes to grow its sales and shake off its troubles. I don't see how it can do that with its current lineup. The Monte Carlo I drove will please the GM faithful, but I doubt that it will get anyone out of a Honda, Toyota, Nissan or even a Ford.
And one other thing - we were following a Chevy HHR through an intersection. I didn't know which way to turn, so I asked my wife for directions (she had the map). Her reply: "Just follow that PT Cruiser." Ouch...
Loren
~~~end quote~~~
Maybe she was rattling the baby rattle :surprise:
Did ya turn around to see..... just kidding!
Loren
Someone just commented in the Lucerne (Buick) discussion that the 18 inch wheels and suspension on the V8 wasn't as comfotable as the 16 inch models. Too hard! That's probably a good thing?
That target for Monte Carlo in this Midwest area is NASCAR types, if there is such a group. They tend to be 40s and not much into football but into NASCAR sports.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But I'm not sure that GM being 'attacked' is the right word. Being attacked implied the victim is defenseless... and GM has had plenty of defense in money, manpower, and technology against its competition over the years. GM got lazy relative to its competition, and now it's paying the price - in ways far beyond its model lineup. Its problems are now deeply rooted in its labor pool and enormous debt.
I read the link as well - interesting article. From a safety perspective, there are enormous opportunities to make cars smarter and safer.
P.S.S.
My former Acura TL rattled more than my daughters hand baby rattle
That's too bad that your daughter's hand baby rattle was broken - if it didn't make any noise, then it must have been deafening at interstate speeds to hear that mild hush of wind noise while driving your former TL, huh?
Rocky
I have not driven the Lucerne but the tire is only one part of the ride comfort equation. Yes as the tire sidewall gets shorter the tire gives a stiffer ride. However the 50 means that the tire sidewall height is 50% of the tire width, in this case 245. These are pretty wide tires so there is quite a bit of sidewall height. The other part is the suspension bushings and shock valving. With the stiffer tires, the bushings will be tuned softer. Remember that the 18" wheels were chosen mostly for styling in this case. A big vehicle like the lucerne looks so much better with the bigger wheels.
Actually the magnetic shocks greatly help the comfort of the ride. Due to it's ability to "conform" to the road in real time by changing the valving constantly and give a great ride.
The Lucerne is a extremely nice vehicle. I will love it even more with a 6-speed auto and RWD or AWD is what's powering the wheels.
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,