Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

General Motors discussions

11718202223558

Comments

  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    I was repling to post #724.......it could have been GM.

    I was saying it should have said it SHOULD have been GM.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Regardless of the data that people have posted here reflecting good quality performances by GM for the Buick and Cadillac product lines especially, people still have a tendency to go by what they have heard from family members, friends, co-workers, etc. when they make their automobile purchasing decisions."

    Well Caddy sales are up. As a matter of fact Caddy outsold Mercedes in Calender Year(US sales)2005. Caddy outsold the VW brand as well. Thats hard to believe that Caddy outsold VW!

    "The majority of people still don't rely on information about vehicles from Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers and Associates, Edmunds, etc. to make their purchasing decisions. It's all about the "word on the street".

    I(myself)do look at Consumer Reports for reliability ratings mostly. Your right though word on the street does matter alot though in regards to people buying cars. I was saying that same thing in the other thread "What will it take for people to buy American" that if people have one good experience with Honda and Toyota cars they will likely buy another Honda and Toyota and not look at any other car makes. I like Honda don't get me wrong but I look at other cars too on the road too to see whats new in the car world.
  • dranoeldranoel Member Posts: 79
    GM has burned many bridges over the past many years--it doesn't make any difference what GM does--many people will NEVER look at a GM vehicle again--including me--as far as I'm concerned they don't exist.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    Does anyone here think that the Honda Ridgeline looks almost identical to the Chevy Avalanche?

    :surprise:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Now that really is believable. I knew that GM was a big proponent back in the 70s of going metric for worldwide consistency but it hasn't made English units out-of-favor in many areas. I can see a supplier and someone with lack of knowledge of significant digits doing a conversion like that. Not what the manufacturers wanted to have happen.

    As for the trans problems, there are a lot more total GM cars, old, new, wornout, under-loved, undermaintained, all around this area. They don't sit in front of the trans repair shops in proportion to their numbers. This even despite many of the H bodies from the 90s are now being bought by the low cost, no maintenance group of buyers. What are there are many foreign brands out of ratio to their numbers around this area. But they look like several years older models and probably 2nd owners and on.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    As a matter of fact Caddy outsold Mercedes in Calender Year(US sales)2005. Caddy outsold the VW brand as well. Thats hard to believe that Caddy outsold VW!
    No too hard when they were practically giving them away with employee pricing.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I do not believe there are any non metric fasteners on any GM vehicle. Can anyone name any? GM converted years ago. The only one I can think of is the wheel diameters (which are not fasteners). Lug nuts are metric but have a english counterpart I believe.

    All drawings internally have been metric since about '89 or so.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Lug nuts are 3/4 inch on LeSabre. Bolt on alternator bracket was 1/2 inch. Are those coincidental equivalents or are some left in Common English sizes where mechanics will be comfortable with the size needed? I don't recall what the trans cover bolts are, metric or English. But I know the other two.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Very trendy vehicle style/class right now...looks promising. And if only GM could put its concept interiors into production - cut some salaries of overpaid underworked slacker execs and build the product. That would be a real "revolution"...

    Weird name on that Buick though
  • ron_mron_m Member Posts: 186
    One thing that I have noticed is that most GM automatic trannies do shift smoother than most Hondas that I have driven. At least as a general rule. Also, Toyota and Nissan automatic transmissions seem to shift smoother on average than the Hondas that I have driven as well. It's been my experience that certain AT Hondas downshift really hard at times. Never had one to fail though. One thing is for sure though, when you change the transmission fluid in a Honda you'd better use Honda ATF or you can be guaranteed that you will end up with some significantly rougher shifting.

    Unless I am mistaken, the vast majority of the fasteners on my '02 TrailBlazer LTZ were indeed metric.

    Ron M.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    was to cut the ties to memories of Buick as 'old folks' car. But then they keep the portholes!!! What were they thinking. Lucerne sounds a little like Le Sabre.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • mylar202asmylar202as Member Posts: 12
    Doesn't Chevrolet sell alot more cars than Buick or Cadillac? If so they would make tha quality average worse, not better, right?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Lug nuts are 3/4 inch on LeSabre. Bolt on alternator bracket was 1/2 inch. Are those coincidental equivalents or are some left in Common English sizes where mechanics will be comfortable with the size needed?

    Actually the lug nuts are 19 mm (.75" = 19.05mm) and the alternator bolt must be 13 mm( 12.7mm = .5").
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Doesn't Chevrolet sell alot more cars than Buick or Cadillac? If so they would make tha quality average worse, not better, right?

    For 3 year Dependibility Chevrolet is 232 pph just a few problems better than industry average (237). Buick/Cadillac are 163/175. So the average for the 3 is probably around 210?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well more sporty looking SUVs are nothing new. The Murano was way ahead of GM on that one, but that is par for the course. Yes, it looks fine. I thought Buick was a car company. A luxury car company of days-gone-bye, which produced near Cadillac cars. Strange world where Porsche is selling SUVs -- guess everyone is in the truck/car/van whatever they are suppose to be - thing. Personally, I would rather see GMC making trucks than Cadillac, Porsche and yes Buick.

    What would Broderick Crawford think!
    http://www.highwaypatroltv.com/AutoWeek2005/

    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yes, an exact copy, though the one actually runs every day.............. Just kidding :P

    Loren
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    My family has owned numerous GM cars - my dad is a GM fanatic, or close to it.

    Yet, the cars have no soul. It's not that they build bad cars, just that there is always a better option for the same segment/money if you check around. So his next car will be something else. He's thinking of Lexus and I can't think of a reason why not to buy one. :)

    I think the downfall of GM is the InterNet. No, really - lol - hear me out. The problem with GM as I said is that they don't make the *best* car for any particular segment or use. People use the InterNet for everything these days - as much as 50% of the U.S. population now, and it's just a click away to find a better car.

    Need a 4*4? GM makes.. oh look... I know about the Toyota FJ coming months before I would have even ten years ago. Need a fast little roadster? The Solstice is fun, but look at the reviews and how all these other cars beat it on the racetrack...

    So how to fix this? There's really only one way. GM is doomed. So I suggest something radical. When the time comes, Chrysler splits off and merges/buys out what's left.

    What we need is a company with GM's quality and Chrysler's vision and designs. I don't know how that will happen at this point, but it or sometihng like it will need to happen sooner or later.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    http://www.highwaypatroltv.com/AutoWeek2005/#AW1
    Seemed like everyone wanted a Buick. Those were the days.

    Saw the new Lucerne the other day. It was $33k and had the 3.8V6 in it. Maybe I was seeing things? The interior looked pretty rich. The exterior had the usual new styling feature of the big eyes. Massive head lamps. Overall, a bland car, and one that may work for some. Personally, it looks $10K overpriced to me. Never want another car with a foot brake again. I thought that went out with the hula-hoop, but I was wrong. Portholes are back.... they look strangely out of place though. Not sure if it is just the shape, location, or size, but they are well, just wrong.

    I had fun driving the ol' LeSabre back in the 60's. Style baby! The car I learned to drive with.

    Loren
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    Blech.

    That definitely won't get me interested in GM.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Anyone notice the 270hp 3.6L DOHC engine spec'd for the Enclave?
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    "Anyone notice the 270hp 3.6L DOHC engine spec'd for the Enclave? "

    I have. 270hp/6-speed. Quite impressive and competitive with Toyota's 268hp and Nissan's 280hp V6's. That was my first impression. But then I realized these numbers would be good if the Enclave went on sale TODAY. Until the spring of 2007, a million things can happen. That's one of GM's main problems. They never seem to realize they are aiming for a moving target, and always end up missing the boat.
    Look at Toyota for example with the new LS460. They didn't aim to outpwer the STS' 320hp or the BMW 750Li's 360-hp. They knew this might not be enough when the car goes on sale. The Lexus will have a class-leading 380hp from a very high-tech 4.6L, hook to an EIGHT-speed auto tranny. That's right. Eight gears. Result is 5.5sec acceleration and V6-like mid-20 average mpg. Now that's the kind of stuff need to have to get noticed.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Actually the LS460 still doesn't lead that class in hp or torque, the new S550 has a little more in the torque department and 2 more hp.

    I agree with your point though. If GM styles all their upcoming cars like this newest Buick, we won't have as many of these GM problem threads.

    This thing is downright hot for a Buick:

    image

    image

    image

    Now if GM doesn't cheap out on the interior Buick should have a much needed hit on their hands.

    image

    M
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    "Actually the LS460 still doesn't lead that class in hp or torque, the new S550 has a little more in the torque department and 2 more hp"

    The LS460 doesn't compete with the S550, but the S450 which is still probably more expensive than the LS460. For the S550, Lexus will release the LS600h.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Sure it does. The LS460 is offering most of the content of the S550 with nearly the same hp for a cheaper price. All of those cars are compared and cross shopped, they're all competitors in the same segment even if they aren't priced exactly alike.

    M
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    The interior colors (well, that wood) freak me out a bit, but that's an impressive concept.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah they could tone it done some, but material quality should be left in tact. With vehicles like this I'll be pulling for GM. The Solstice GXP doesn't look half-bad either. I hope GM got the handling right because 260hp with the Solstice chassis sounds like a hoot.

    M
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    So basically you are saying picking the LS460 over the more expensive S450 is a no brainer. You have a point here . :)

    Back to GM. The Enclave is a very stylish car and a good effort from GM. I just hope they don't screw it up in a way or another like they have done on most of their products.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    So basically you are saying picking the LS460 over the more expensive S450 is a no brainer. You have a point here .

    Looking at the two cars on paper, it will be just for some that I'm sure. On paper the LS430 did the same thing the less powerful S430. They always position the LS right in between the two V8 S-Class models.

    Yes, I too hope GM doesn't mess up this most promising concept. It is actually a good looking design from GM, something we don't get from them that often. It doesn't have that typical Generic Motors look.

    M
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    I see three ways GM can mess up this product.
    1- Cheapen out the interior.
    2- Price the product so high then offer incentives.
    3- Offer that 270hp V6 as an option with a standard 210hp pushroad. Yuck!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I agree totally. I think at least one of those things is going to happen. This Buick should come standard with the 3.6L V6 from the CTS for sure, NO sticking OHV V6s!

    M
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    NO sticking OHV V6s!

    I may be a car nut, but know little about engines. :( What's so bad about the above engine? :confuse:
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Generally refinement and smoothness are lacking compared to more modern OHC engines.

    OHV engines do have their plusses, like fuel economy, but they don't have the refinement a product like this needs, especially if Buick wants to be the American Lexus.

    M
  • higgledyhiggledy Member Posts: 28
    I agree about Honda's auto tranny, especially in the Accord V6. I think GM has really good tranny's and there larger V6 and V8 engines are durable, albeit old-school technology. If GM could only clean-up the cursory components, out dated interiors and old-man exterior styling. GM would have great products.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Offer that 270hp V6 as an option with a standard 210hp pushroad. Yuck!

    Article says 3.6 standard with V8 optional.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    "Generally refinement and smoothness are lacking compared to more modern OHC engines"

    That's true. In OHV, valves are open and closed by pushrods that are operated by cams in the crank case. Those pushrods extend from near the bottom of the cylinder to near the top, making them relatively long. The pushrods get exposed to extreme pressures and heat, making them elongate and 'tend' to bend, causing a deficincy in valve timing. That's exactly why pushrod engines get out of breath at higher speeds and loose their refinement. Variable Vavle Timing should help with the efficiency, but the pushrods are still there and still subjected to the same heat/stress.
    In OHC engines, the valves are driven directly by the overhead cams, and therefore totally eliminating this problem. The operation here is as smooth in high-speed as it is in low speed. In fact, Overhead Cam engines can rev very high, but limited by the durability of the materials it is made from, and by the movement of fluids themselves inside the cylinder.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Cool link. Memories of those TV shows.

    I didn't realize Buick was #3 in production behind Chevy and Ford. No wonder Buick has so many devotees in people who are in their higher years because Buick was popular in their youth.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >out dated interiors

    Have you done much shopping through various brands to compare interiors? I've hit several showrooms again and don't see anything without plastics. The closest I've come are my neighbor's three 3.5 RLs with leather all over the place and nice dashes. Too bad he has to look forward to trans problems and other high dollar repairs.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • spiritintheskyspiritinthesky Member Posts: 207
    "I don't respect most board of executives or CEO's. Most have a self centered attitude that only cares about their next buck, and the company they represent. They don't give a damn about human rights, child labor laws, safety conditions, fair wages and benefits, for the populus they exploit. I couldn't wake up everyday and look myself in the mirror if I had the that kind of an attitude on life. I guess their are plenty who can and our very wealthy and powerful. GM doesn't get a free pass.

    However, The UAW like most unions fight against the very things I just mentioned. Whether you like em' or not the UAW, like all unions are about the only voice left for your average Joe or Sue in the United States."


    Re-read my last post.

    Two of the three companies I offered as comparison - Boeing and General Electric - manufacture world class airplanes and locomotives with UNION labor. And the third company - Marriott - is consistently named as one of the very best companies in the country for women to work at. They offer exceptional child care programs and have a history of promoting women into the executive ranks. No union required.

    The fact is, we don't live in a country where someone with limited education can expect lifetime employment at the equivalent of $75+ per hour tightening bolts 35 hours a week. At least not as long as it's a democracy and not a socialist regime. And that's precisely why my (and perhaps your) grandparents left everything behind and endured a boat trip to get to the United States. Not for a guaranteed free ride, but for an opportunity to make the most for themselves and their future generations.

    You think the Gambino friendly Teamsters and UAW bosses care more about "average Joe" than Bill or Alice Marriott? And who of them should be avoiding a mirror?

    Don't break a leg falling off your "my morals are higher than yours" horse. That dog doesn't hunt here.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Too bad he has to look forward to trans problems and other high dollar repairs.

    And GM is perfect? At least your neighbor will have a car than when everything is working, is refined, and feels like quality vehicle. Unfortunately, in a GM vehicle (most anyway), you can only hope for reliability, cause the car over all "feels" like a POS.

    Someone mentioned earlier transmission problems in his Trailblazer at low miles, and his trans shop told him they see these problems often. That's interesting, my trans shop told me the same thing when my trans died in my Suburban.

    For fun, look up drive line clunks and rear end noises regarding GM trucks/suv's. You'll spend all day reading about these problems that are more common than most on this board want or are willing to believe. My Suburban has both problems, annoying rear diff. whine between 45-55 mph and a loud clunk in the drive line when shifting between 2-3 gear at low speeds. This drive lash problem is considered normal by GM and the dealer told me nothing can be done. I've talked to my local dealer and trans. shop and both said not to waste my money trying to get rid of the whine, cause it has a good chance of coming back. Yep, that's quality.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I never had a transmission fail in any of my GM vehicles. The only tranny failure I experienced was in a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS at 78K miles. It cost $1,070 to repair. I'm convinced either I am extremely lucky or I must take care of my vehicles a lot better than most. I have cars that supposedly come from perhaps GM's darkest period and they are holding up extremely well.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    one reason those "dark period" GM cars held up so well for you tranny-wise is that most of those older ones still had over-built transmissions. Your '75 DeVille would've had a THM400 tranny, and if your old Electra and 98 had 403's, chances are they still used the THM400 as well.

    Now your Brougham uses the THM200-R4, which is the overdrive version of the much-maligned lightweight THM200C, so I can't explain why that one's held up so well! :P Although my Grandma's LeSabre had that same tranny, and it was fine at 157,000 miles when we got rid of it. My Mom's '86 Monte Carlo had that same tranny, and it was still fine at 192,000 when the car got totaled. I think for the most part, GM got the kinks out of that tranny after it had been on the market only a few years.

    Don't you tend to overdo it when it comes to maintenance, Lemko? That might be one reason you've had good luck. My Granddad always maintained Grandma's LeSabre, and my stepdad was kinda anal with the Monte, so that might be one reason they held up so well.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Maybe I do overmaintain. The guy at the Cadillac dealer looks at the electronic records of my Seville and believes it's the best-maintained car around.

    Heck, a little preventive maintenance is better than a major mechanical failure or the need to purchase another car. Shoot, if Toyotas and Hondas are as good as so many claim, I could probably keep one running for forty years or more.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    They forgot the roll bar & the trunk on the Solstice -- yeah, looks great.

    loren
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...last night and there was a gray Pontiac Solstice on display. There were about ten young guys looking at this car and they all seemed impressed. Maybe Pontiac has a hit.
  • sensaisensai Member Posts: 129
    That's true. In OHV, valves are open and closed by pushrods that are operated by cams in the crank case. Those pushrods extend from near the bottom of the cylinder to near the top, making them relatively long. The pushrods get exposed to extreme pressures and heat, making them elongate and 'tend' to bend, causing a deficincy in valve timing. That's exactly why pushrod engines get out of breath at higher speeds and loose their refinement. Variable Vavle Timing should help with the efficiency, but the pushrods are still there and still subjected to the same heat/stress.

    Huh? Pushrod's bend, lose breath at higher speeds, and lose refinement? Sorry, pushrods don't bend unless you overrev an engine. No modern pushrods run out of breath at higher speeds. Heck, my LS2 revs higher than most OHC engines while pulling harder in the upper revs. And refinement is more of a function of engine isolation than the engine itself - hence the job GM did in the CTS-V to tame the LS6.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    You never had the displeasure of owning an '87 Olds 98 Regency. You name it, it broke, including the transmission at 62K miles. After a payment to GM of $100, they covered the rest. I later found out it should have been 100%, as the transmissions prior to '88 are lemons. Overall coverage by GM for repairs has not been too bad. You see the service people often, and get to know them on a first name basis. The main problem back then was having to fix things time and time again. I later bought an Achieva from my cousin that worked at Olds, and after say the the first eight or so things wrong, the rest of the years were not too bad. The steering was never quite right though, as it sometimes went a bit light at freeway speeds. And the anti-lock brakes were weird in that the back hopped a couple times after, or near the end of a stop. And it leaked water, and well, like the first car mentioned, had a lot of issues. After the rebuild of the car, it ran for a number of years, but was starting to take on water around the driver side floor, about the time I traded it in on a Corolla. The Corolla had one side of the rack replaced and a tie rod. I don't think it actually needed that tie rod replaced as the noise was later found to be the plastic hub caps. A heater switch and dome light are other things that come to mind, but other than that, nothing really wrong in over seven years of service. I owned a used Datsun 510 and had to replace one headlight. Not bad compared to GM cars I have owned. Oh yeah, the Olds Starfire.... don't go there :D

    Loren
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Actually the reason that pushrod engines run out of breath at high speeds is because they only have one intake and one exhaust valve. Over head cam engines usually have more than one intake and one exhaust valve. The problem of the pushrod is that it does add mass to the valve train, and mass has inetia, so there is resistance to very high speed performance. An OHC engine can reduce the valve train to having the cam operate the valve directly (I think, DOHC), which means that the limiting high speed is much higher, everything being equal in the two designs.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Use a 5 or 6 speed transmission so that the thing doesn't have to rev so hard. I'd find a 6 speed transmission mated to a pushrod to be just fine.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I did not have any problems with the transmission in my 86 Electra T-type and the next owner did not either as far as I know.
This discussion has been closed.