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I think any change they make they lose their recognition as a Buick. The LuCerne has changed the shape but still retains some of the Buick recognizability.
If they change then they lose some people; if they keep the shape they lose some people who won't even look closer at the product.
It's good that you recognized the durability of the Centurys even though they were lower level rental versions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would suspect something with more angularity along with sharper front and rear body corners--little more Sonatalike or Azeralike? That would take away the feminine look it has now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Pontiac Website Link to Dealer's Inventory
Do you think that someone hacked GM's website?
I can't say what the LaCrosse looks like in my opinion?
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109673
Basically I wouls assume that Buick would continue the grill treatment that started with the Lucerne and continued with the Enclave.
My guess is that they are lazy/disinterested. What a shame.
GM could get a lot of valuable information just by having a few managers with some clout read these message boards and also spot check the GM web sites. If I was a manager in GM and found out about this MPG debacle, I'd be on it immediately. Maybe they found that the web site programmer is outsourced in India so they can't communciate real time, and would have no clout anyway! Ha!
As the people got older the imports changed their cars to meet the needs of the aging buyers and incomes of those buyers. The domestics didn't want/weren't able because of wasteful costs to put out a loss leader to compete with them and best them.
Now we're here with imports building cars here for companies headquartered there.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Loren
But the dealer has wrong information too. I stopped by to see the new G6. It's not just the website. GM's entire window sticker generating system must be a mess.
Absolutely correct.
"Once people bought the Datsuns, Toyotas, and Civics as economy cars and found that they had few things breaking since they were basic without lots of options, they took on the mindset that they were better."
Huh? You make it sound like the unreliable reputation for the domestics was due to the OPTIONS breaking. Not the case. The basic Toyota/Honda was simply more reliable (and DROVE BETTER) than the comparable domestic, REGARDLESS of the 'option' level. They took on the mindset? Maybe those small cars simply WERE better than the comparable domestic.
"As the people got older the imports changed their cars to meet the needs of the aging buyers and incomes of those buyers."
Damn their unfair business practices. Imagine, actually CHANGING their cars to meet the needs of their customers....
My .02 on 'why' we're here:
Generally speaking, we're here because Toyota/Honda were better managed, with better engineering, and with better quality of assembly than the comparable domestics. For too long the domestics HAD counted on attempting to undercut the imports on price and wave the flag to keep their market share. In short, the imports KNEW they would have to actually compete while the domestics felt the only real competition was themselves. They overlooked the imports. And it's come back to haunt them.
The problem now is that folks left the domestics because the domestics screwed up. If Toyota/Honda DON'T screw up, what would it take to lure those folks (or their kids) back?
This is the same for every make of car that offers multiple options. This is nothing unique to GM or Pontiac. Yet it nevertheless has consumed your attention for an entire day.
The 2.4 and 3.5 options get considerably better mileage. Currently, there is some malfunction with the Pontiac site, as it shows stickers for all engine options with the same gas mileage.
I buy most of my merchandise on line. I have encountered errors on many websites for top end merchandise. Because such errors happen most companies, GM included, provide ways to contact product experts, either by e-mail or telephone. I've found that contacting the expert is a good way to get the correct information about the product.
Also, I'm happy to see the I4 now offers more power - 170 HP. Hope Malibu gets this engine too for 2007 model year.
Right now the grill looks like this
Something more daring, more original, more creative would help. Nash had that same grill in 1950!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Honda does not have an entgne like the 3.9. The 3.9 hits high torque low and keeps it over a wide band. An engine for people who like to launch. 3.6 and its ToyHon engines with autos at least are for people wanting smooth cruising.
Nothing wrong with either. Don't know why all you folks want the same thing for everyone. I kind of like going to the jazz club one night, the opera another, the cinema the next. Guess others want to stop for McDonalds and go home for the MASH reruns on Nick at Night every evening. Fortunately, in autos there is still some cariety.
The 3.5 is closer to what Honda does. And gets better mpgs.
The I4 with better hp (and better mpgs than the messed up link you post) is larger than the earlier version (.2 larger, to be exac. .1 larger than what ToyHon offer -- or are they up to 2.4 now?)
Now why the Pontiac web site is showing its mpgs across the board is a great mystery.
The whole y2k scam exposed geeks for the no nothing phonies they are. GM should know enough to be watching them like hawks. They aren't, and the geeks are messing up per usual :sick:
Is that worse than the companies headquatered here (domestics) who build cars over there (Mexico, China...) for sale here, at the same time closing plants and relocating those jobs too?
You've got that. It's the geek's fault that the world's #1 car company has so many errors on their web site. And don't forget those NAFTA people. The government isn't doing enough for GM. The states are giving tax credits to the foreign makes. It's all WalMart's fault for hiring workers on the cheap. Why can't we let auto workers make $150K year with their high school (maybe) educations? Lastly, Consumer Reports is biased. They never rate GM well enough, as they are paid off by everybody who is against GM. And the styling is fine, I like cladding. The Aztec wasn't so bad.
How can a company be successful when the unfair world wants quality checks and competitive products... what a conspiracy!
I was just thinking that the other day. Saw an attractive lady drive up in a new LaCrosse and the first thought I had was, that doesn't look right, her husband must work at GM or it is his car.
Now an attractive women's car could be a Mustang, G6, almost any sports car. Attractive practical women who like cars that are easy to handle choose Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas etc. Classy ladies choose Mercedes, sexy ladies who appreciate cars drive BMW's and Audis. Sexy ladies who are a little rugged (nothing wrong with that) drive SUV's and pick-ups. Adventurous women drive PT Cruisers. One sexy car is an Altima, practical yet good styling.
But what women chooses by free choice a LaCrosse? Not being mean, but I can see room and comfort.....but it sure aint sexy (the car at least).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Now I look on their website and they have a pic of the new Outlook. While not as hot as the Aura or Sky, it does looks worlds better than the Vue and Ion.
Thoughts? Is Saturn on the right track? What do you think of the Sky and Aura?
M
So far this year, GM's
resale value is up 7 percentage points on cars and 3 percentage points on
trucks.
Bob Lutz, earlier this
year said "GM" U.S. market share is sustainable in the low-to-mid-20 percentage
range over time.
The average age of a Chevrolet buyer is 46, matching that of the industry
The average new car buyer holds on to his
car for 52 months and 82,000 miles.
OMG, 35% of october sales, you got to be kidden :surprise:
Rocky
products with a definite European flavor as part of a broader
product-sharing strategy between it and Opel. While the Aura rides on the
same 112.3-in. Epsilon wheelbase as the Pontiac G6 and Malibu Maxx, the
exterior styling, interior fitments and driving dynamics give the
impression that it is totally different.
The detailing is impressive, from the
larger projector-beam headlamps to the use of chromed accents on the window
surround, side molding and door handles on the upscale XR model.
Even the smallest detail is not overlooked, including lips instead of plain
cutouts over the exhaust tips.
Inside, the rich look of the Aura concept car has been faithfully executed
in our test vehicle, which was equipped with the textured two-tone Moroccan
leather interior. The dash is covered with high-quality, soft-touch
materials and even the center stack, which is usually done up in matte
black, has a textured gray finish. The analog instruments have carbon-fiber
facing in the center, a white background behind the graphics, and lighted
instrument pointers. The fit and finish are top-notch – even the base XE
model has the same level of attention to interior detail, but offers up
cloth seats (with a heat option) instead of the leather.
The doors and rear decklid close with resounding thunks. This
carved-from-billet feel to the body is reinforced out on the open road,
where the cabin is Lexus-quiet, thanks to the use of acoustic laminated
glass on the front doors and windshield as well as the extensive use of
silent steel (a steel-and-composite sandwich) in the firewall.
Aura feels surefooted with nicely controlled body movements over twists and
turns. The long wheelbase also helps the ride – it’s a nice blend of Euro
taut with American comfort. The steering is a hydraulic-boosted
rack-and-pinion system, which has better feel and more precise action than
the electric boost found in base Malibu and G6 models.
it does deliver on one of the brand’s founding
tenets: tremendous value. fully competitive with loaded Toyota Camrys and Honda Accords and
less than a comparably equipped VW Passat.
The Aura delivers solid road manners, great looks inside and out and
tremendous value. As the name implies, it’s the perfect halo car for the
new Saturn.
"I am not sure where the GM-Nissan-Renault thing goes," said Tom Stallkamp, an industrial partner with Ripplewood Holdings, at the Reuters Autos Summit on Tuesday, Sept. 12. "There is so much overlap on that."
Stallkamp said he sees more of a product-related partnership, as seen in Europe where rival automakers have collaborated on powertrains and other components.
"I see it more toward that product-specific joint ventures and collaborations ... than let's just throw our companies together," he said.
Stallkamp, who is a former Chrysler president, said there may be opportunities for the three companies to partner in new markets such as India or China.
"Maybe there's something in these talks that has nothing to do with North America," he said "Maybe it's, for the sake of argument, Bolivia (where) they are going to come out with a truck."
GM and Nissan-Renault have launched a 90-day study into the possibilities of a three-way alliance, and small teams of executives will report back to the chief executives in mid-October.
FWIW, I gave the Sky a look when they first came out and while very good looking in the flesh, the low squishy seats, the need to prop yourself up just to see over your shoulder, the balky shifter and some interior fit and finish issues were enough to walk away (I wasn't really a serious buyer that day anyways).
And as far as the Aura goes, if you like the design and you want to save a few bucks, just buy a G6 sedan. The Aura interior upgrade may be worth the price of admission to some though.
M
I am more excited about the forthcoming Saturn Astra and the next Gen Vue in either full hybrid or the value hybrid.
I expect the new Corsa is going to find its way into the Saturn show rooms sooner or later as well.
You and I have talked a lot about Saab in the past. Don't know how GM could work this with the dealers, but I think a Saab/Saturn combination dealership like they have in Canada would really start pushing Saturn in the direction it was originally intended.
As for the SKY, I think your criticisms somewhat misplaced. The '06 line up is sold out. Almost half the '07s are sold. The Redline is probably going to sell even quicker. You may not like it. That is fair. But the people buying do. Long and short, as a two time Roadster owner and long time Roadster fan, I really like the idea of being able to tuck the top under the trunk and can live with the short comings in luggage space and how it looks top up. Given Sky's sales, it seems enough of the market is with me to make it a good idea.
I'd be curious how Edmunds long term Solstice holds up although I expect in sunny california, they just leave the top down.
Thanks for putting a lot of words in my mouth, pal.
Go back five years here. Look at all my posts. There are hundreds of them. I have never had a bad word to say about NAFTA. I don't support tax breaks for anyone. I would never shop WalMart - they have a lot of junk there - but could care less how the company operates. I have stated many times that the unions have sweetheart deals. I blasted Aztec styling but pointed out that GM made a relatively good save with the Rendevous.
My point here was directed to one area: Techies. And how bad a job they do not just with the GM site (and by the way, we have only pointed out one error, as best I can see), but on the many sites I visit.
I work with techies a lot in my job. I consistently run into their day to day inability to listen to what I say, to explain what they can do, and to make a product that I want. I watch them like a hawk because I know they will mess up otherwise. And as my post points out, I blame the GM market people for not watching the techies closely.
A little sensitive about that aren't you? Given your inability to follow my points, I wonder perhaps if it cuts to close to what you do.
The Outlook looks good as well. Not in the market for a SUV/Crossover, but would consider it if I was.
Sky is a good first effort. If GM listens to the complaints/critics (something they have not been good about)it could be a hit. But it is what it is, a niche car, never going to pull a company out of the hole financially.
Will be interested to see what Ion replacement looks like as it is supposed to be heavily Opel influenced as well.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
However, the XR is a very nice vehicle, and really shines the spotlight on the fact that the previous L-series (of which they still have PLENTY sitting around the lot looking kind of sad) was stuck in 1993 all these years. And that was 1993 GM, which was significantly behind 1993 rest-of-the-market, IMO. At $25K for the base XR, which includes the 3.6L DOHC engine from the uptrim Caddy CTS and upper-grade Lucernes (all cars costing more than $30K), the price is just right, I think. However, it will not hit Toyota/Honda where it hurts - the sales of their 4-cylinder Camrys and Accords. It is more expensive and has lower fuel economy than those models. But for V-6 shoppers, I think Aura will steal a few CamCord buyers. Or maybe a lot of them.
After seeing Aura, I can't wait to see if they can achieve the same level of execution on the Ion replacement. I sat in an Ion again while I was there, and the stark contrast with the Aura just makes it seem disgusting that they still sell such a substandard product. They should have just gone without a small car for a year while they prepared the Ion replacement.
Now the Saturn salesman I was chatting with also mentioned that they will have Aura Green Lines by the first of the year, and that they are just starting to get Vue Green Lines. I will be very interested to see the roll-out of their hybrids, and read up on how well people do for fuel economy in those models.
I do like the looks of the Outlook (that's the clone of the Buick Enclave, right?), and it certainly seems fully competitive in its segment, although Pilot and Highlander are just about to be fully updated, so we have to wait and see what those models look like after that.
Overall, Saturn's future is much brighter now than it was a year or two ago, IMO. There was a cheerful sense of purpose and the hustle-bustle of having lots of new customers at the dealership when I was there. Of course, I also found out that one deaelr group has bought all three of the closest dealerships nearest to me, and decided that in an area of 3/4-million people, three dealerships was more than the sales demand would bear, which is why they closed the one in my county and I now have to drive 25 miles just to look at a Saturn. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The 3.9 V6 has a 3.69:1 axle ratio and the transmission's overdrive is 0.71:1. The manual transmission for the 3.9 engine has a 3.55:1 axle ratio and an overdrive of 0.62:1. The manual V6 is rated much better than the automatic for fuel consumption.
The 3.6 V6 has a 2.77:1 axle ratio and an overdrive of 0.74:1.
So what does all this mean you may ask: the 3.6 dohc v6 has an overall low gear ratio of 12.4:1; the 3.9 is only 10.8:1. The overdrive overall ratios are 2.05:1 and 2.62:1. So the 3.9 should have a worse highway rating. The GT with the 3.5 has an overall overdrive ratio that is 2.24:1, much better than the 3.9's ratio.
The EPA 2007 prelim numbers for the G6 are:
2.4 I4 - 23/33
3.5 V6 - 20/29 or 20/28 with manumatic
3.6 V6 - 20/28 (manumatic)
3.9 V6 - 18/27 with manual six speed
3.9 V6 - 17/24 manumatic
There will be an Aura value Green Line on the market around March. I have not heard whether there will be a full dual phase Aura hybrid.
It seems a good sedan for the dual phase if GM plans on using dual phase in sedans. I expect at the start, anyway, GM will be using all of its dual phase supplies for the SUVs and vehicles such as the Outlook.
After seeing Aura, I can't wait to see if they can achieve the same level of execution on the Ion replacement.
Probably will be called the Astra. I am looking forward as well.
I sat in an Ion again while I was there, and the stark contrast with the Aura just makes it seem disgusting that they still sell such a substandard product. They should have just gone without a small car for a year while they prepared the Ion replacement.
Actually, GM was set to cancel the ION later this year but extended the run because sales are up modestly. It may not be the prettiest car in the world, but it is a good bargain and has a very low cost of ownership.