>they look like two pieces of crap parked next to each other
Not a very thought-provoking response. Kind of simple and distasteful.
>Now we'll here hear how they're competitive. And before I hear 1492 tell me I don't know anything about the auto industry for the 100th time, My mother-in-law has an Equinox. Biggest POS on the planet.
More of the same. Ho hum.
If you're saying you personally don't like something for whatever reason, that can be said in better ways. Myself I can't see why VW still sells their family of cars including Audi here. They're weird, break a lot, and are unimpressive.
I don't know about the Equinox, but it is a good looking vehicle to me. Too bad GM blew it. I posted Top Ten SUV's for 2006 few days ago where the CR-V came third place and on top of the Tahoe. Some here explained it by the increasing sales of small SUV's on the expense of full-size SUV's. It is sad because instead of the CR-V, it could have been the Equinox up there to pickup the sales lost from the Tahoe and Trailblazer. It wasn't even in Top 10 list. The Equinox will be updated this year but it might just be too little too late.
louiswei: Honestly I think the current best looking midsize sedan out there is the Aura, follow by Mazda6 and Camry. Honda Accord won't even make into my top-5.
I'd put the Fusion on top, followed by the Passat and the Mazda6.
I dont know how to be more clear about the CTS interior. The DESIGN (styling, layout, look) was widely criticized but the materials and build quality were not. Here's another example, the FJ Cruiser has a terrible interior design but the fit and finish is probably very good.
The CTS is the oldest car in the entry luxury class and thus its interior is probably worst in class. No surprise there. I think the A4 and 3 series interiors are better, but I am not crazy about either design. The ES350 and TL interiors are far superior to the Germans if you ask me.
The Highlander and RX are pretty different but they are the same size and share a tranmission and they had the same engine until last year. They are no less different than the Vue and Equinox. Most people wouldnt even be able to tell the two vehicles have anything in common.
GM only has 8 crossovers because of the lamdas that just went on sale. For most of 2006 GM had 5 crossovers, not a huge difference from 3. The bottom line is Toyota was first to market and now GM leads this segment and the margin is going to get bigger. Toyota easily sells more smal cars than GM even though GM has more small car brands.
The Equinox has been a decent seller. Last time I checked the Escape was the best selling compact SUV. Just because a model doesnt make it onto a top 10 list doesnt mean it's a flop. The CX-7 has gotten great reviews from the press and likely will be a success for Mazda but I doubt it will make any top 10 list for SUVs. BTW, the interior was updated last year and is very class competitive. The only thing is lacks is a decent engine, but it's NOT slow. C&D clocked it as 8.3 secs when it was new which is still faster than the CR-V. Everything in this class is slow compared to the RAV4 V6.
As for styling, most people agreed when it was new that it was attractively styled. Of course Dham wont be impressed but that is no surprise. I dont think he finds the ZO6 impressive either.
you keep saying cars like the Aura dont offer superior value to more expensive cars like the Camry V6 but do not say WHY. Please explain why if you dont mind. The Aura offers VIRTUALLY the same performance, space and handling (probably a little better) as the Camry for less dollars.
Go to truedelta.com to see a true comparison that takes into account features missing on each car to see the price difference. What value is the Camry (or Altima) offering over the Aura? BTW, the CAmry is the only automatic V6 import that I've seen tested that is faster than the Aura. The Accord, Sonata and Altima are all slower with automatics. YOu say the Aura doesn offer more space and performance, but that only can be applied to the Camry and as i noted the performance gap (acceleration) is minimal to say the least. Its almost a dead heat realistically speaking.
1487: go to Chevy's site and check the pics, it was updated for 2006. I think you need to get caught up. The interior is definitely as good as the Rav4.
I did better than that...I went to the dealer and looked at a 2007 model.
And, no, it's not as good as the RAV-4 (or the new CR-V, for that matter, which a friend just purchased).
As I said, the Equinox looks nice on the outside, but needs work on the inside.
I am not saying the Aura is less of a value than Accord and Camry, value is depend on each individual, I can't speak for you or the person next to you. I haven't go check out the Aura personally but I will get a chance in the upcoming Atlanta autoshow. Until then I'll reserve my judgment for that car.
I can, however, speak for the Accord (4-cylinder version specifically) due to first-hand experience. It is, IMO, the best 4-cylinder midsize sedan out on the market.
I know the performance and size between the Camry and Aura is not that great but the point I was trying to make is that domestics don't hold the advantage over the imports on those 2 criteria as you have stated earlier.
Sorry about getting something started 58, and putting you in the middle of it. I thought I made it clear I was talking in the past tense, and added all the information the exec was talking about (interior/exterior, fit/finish, FWD vs RWD). Guess I was mistaken. :confuse:
In any event, you seemed to have fully read, understood and gotten the point of the post.
Toyota isnt going to have more brands, that is pretty obvious. I dont get your point. The only thing I am saying is that GM sells more crossovers and will continue to do so. If you are saying that isnt fair because GM has more brands than I would say total brands hasnt helped GM prevent marketshare loss over the years so let's not try to use as an excuse when something goes right. Number of brands is no guarantee of sales success as GM has proven over the past few decades. Let's be consistent as you said. If we were talking about GM's failures you would be saying "GM has 8 brands and Toyota is about to pass them" and now you are saying "well Toyota cant compete with GM because it has so many brands". which is it?
All I said was that for 2006 GM was selling FIVE crossovers (Equninox, Vue, Torrent, SRX, Rendevous) not EIGHT and those FIVE outsold Toyota's THREE crossovers based on numbers someone else posted. I never said Toyota should have more models than GM nor do I think that is possible. Regardless of how many crossover models GM has the point is Toyota was in this market FIRST as you pointed out earlier. They have lost their sales lead and aren't likely to get it back soon. Ford will probably pass them as well with the Edge/MKZ on sale now.
The Highlander and RX are very different, I already conceded that. I don't know what you are arguing about at this point.
1487: Even though Toyota is earlier to the crossover market but GM is more dedicated because look: GM has 8 crossover models compare to Toyota's 3.
louiswei: Yeah, but many of those are badge-engineered jobs and GM has more brand than Toyota.
1487: Yeah, so are is the Highlander/RX (there off we go the RX/Highlander vs. Vue/Equinox discussion. I am glad we agree that RX and Highlander are very different. Just like the Vue and Equinox). What does number of brands has to do with anything?
louiswei: Of course it does. 8 models for 8 brands for GM, 3 models for 3 brands for Toyota. To me they are very even, they all have 1 crossover per brand. By the way, IMO, GM should out sell Toyota 2:1 in the crossover market.
1487: GM out sold Toyota in the Crossover market.
louiswei: Of course it does, with GM's 8 brands vs Toyota's 3, how can it not out sell Toyota? :confuse:
Those are the condense version of our previous posts. Please point out where did I state:
"GM has 8 brands and Toyota is about to pass them" and "well Toyota cant compete with GM because it has so many brands"
in exact words.
The only thing you are good at, 1487, is to put words into other people's mouth and totally twist the meaning of other posts in yours.
The argument that sales should be directly proportional to divisions is silly. GM had more divisions than Toyota when Toyota pioneered the crossover segment and yet Toyota was able to outsell GM. Everyone knows that Toyota (and Honda) compete with several of GM's brands. This isnt news and if GM consolodated brands it would still outsell Toyota. The point is more people bought GM crossovers than Toyota crossovers, period. The initial point was GM was late to crossovers and was missing the boat. I agreed that they took 5 years to launch a crossover but then stated GM proceeded to pass Toyota in this segment in the 5 years since they entered the market. The notion that they "should" be doing this because they have more brands is silly since until recently several of their brands didnt even have crossovers. Again, GM did not have EIGHT crossovers in 2006. The Lamdas just went into production in December and thus had little impact on 2006 sales. GM had only 5 models spread amongst five brands if we dont count the HHR.
"Of course it does, with GM's 8 brands vs Toyota's 3, how can it not out sell Toyota? "
Um, Toyota beats GM in small car sales, small pickups and hybrid sales even though GM has more brands. When the product is good enough Toyota can outsell GM. I think common sense would dictate that number of dealers would also play a part in this and I'm sure Toyota dealers far outnumber all of GM's brand dealers except Chevy. Yes GM has a lot of brands but Saab, saturn (this is changing), Hummer, Buick and Pontiac are relatively small volume compared to Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.
You should check out the beating I'm taking in Karl's blog about the Tundra. You'll love it.
The Equinox has regularly been panned for its cheap interior. The update doesn't do all that much to change the impression.
And if Edmunds.com "confirmed" that the RAV4's interior is "one" of the cheapest in its segment (as opposed to "the cheapest"), I have a sneaking suspicion as to which vehicle's interior is cheaper.
The Bush Healthcare proposal will solve no problems for poor and middle class folks without. It's like pulling out a 10 foot pole and have the pole tied to the rabbits head and at the other end there is a fresh watery carrot.
That's about how much sense any of this makes. :mad:
Look, your opinion on GM vehicles doesnt carry a lot of weight with me since you dont like GM at all. Sorry, but to the objective observer the Equiniox interior is just fine for the class, especially with the nav scren. If you think the RAV4, CR-V, Escape, etc. have a better interior than I don't know what to tell you. I would venture to guess most people wouldnt agree. No one has tested the Equinox with the new interior so I dont know what Edmunds has to say about it.
For a true indicator of the problem GM faces read the comments by the Edmunds editor in regards to the SRX. He said his wife was embarrassed to admit she liked a Cadillac because it was American. As many have pointed out here, the products really arent the problems. The social stigma that certain parts of society ascribe to owning an American car is a huge factor that cannot be overcome easily. Its not even that people necessarily believe domestic vehicles are that bad, it's that they are worried about what people would think if they werent driving an import. It's really sad that people use that as a factor when chosing or even considering a vehicle but that's reality.
Saw that I didn't miss much. Same old arguing over subjective items like design, styling, perception, etc.
Same parsing/dissection of buff book comparos when they have so many subjective components like "gotta have it."
Same posting of outside articles in their entirety, like Warren Brown's whining. Maybe old Warren should join Lutz at the Firehouse Bar and commiserate.
Just have to say that grbeck has a lot of car knowledge, so diss him at your peril, IMO. I've had disagreements with him in the past, but he does know his stuff. Hey, he said he owns an import AND a domestic, too.
It comes down to what YOU like personally -- you have to do your own comparisons/test drives, and see what moves you.
My question: for everyone who holds such a view, aren't there an equal or greater number of "USA No. 1" types who won't consider a "foreign" car, no matter what, esp. in the Midwest and Plains States?
Heck, my uncle by marriage, a native Kentuckian, won't consider an import, even though the Camry, Solara, and Avalon are built in his home state. I recommended 3 years ago that he and his wife (my late aunt) buy an '04 Malibu with side airbags, based on its good crash test results and generally favorable reviews. They did and were happy with it.
"Most everyone I know has advised me against getting a US made automobile, stating that it would always be in need of repairs. I told myself not to listen but after reading some of these statements im having second thoughts. "
imidazol97, So you have a touch of the CR flu ?????
The only cure is to read the problems/repairs forums of the cars that they claim are so great
The perception that American cars are unreliable is going to be GM's burden for the next 10 years, no matter how good the cars are - unless something spectacular happens to change that perception.
That's why I keep calling for something dramatic from marketing.
Nobody liked my Times Square Door Slamming, radio blaring, engine-flatout for a year drama-rama, so let's try again.
A fleet of stock GM cars drives from Anchorage to Tiera Del Fuego in South America.....and nothing breaks on any of them!
Cameras record the journey... the Hummers take a special "off-road" route through the Baja - the Cadillacs stop to attend the Opera in Houston or Dallas - All the cars join up for Mardi Gras in New Orleans.
Tacky? You Bet! Lots of coverage of the greatness of GM cars? That can be arranged by the careful car and feeding of reporters.... they ALL drive the 2008 CTS!
Every popular (and not-so-popular) car has such a forum. The Edmunds' hosts themselves have said repeatedly such forums can't be used as a statistical indication of reliability, because these boards by their nature will draw mainly those with complaints.
So, you have to rely on CR, JD Powers, or the new kid in town, truedelta.com.
Now I must really get back to work before the boss finds out...
A fleet of stock GM cars drives from Anchorage to Tiera Del Fuego in South America.....and nothing breaks on any of them!
Cameras record the journey...
Tacky? You Bet! Lots of coverage of the greatness of GM cars? That can be arranged by the careful car and feeding of reporters.... they ALL drive the 2008 CTS!
Great idea for GM. Maybe GM could even challenge other car makers to compete. Event would be organized by neutral organization with experience in these matters. Perhaps World Rally group, Paris/Dakar organizers, or even SCCA could do it. It would be called the Great GM Challenge, the motor event of the decade.
Cars/vehicles would have to be totally stock and bought anonymously from dealers just like Consumer Reports apparently does. Cars/vehicles could not be tricked out by manufacturers.
To make sure no shenanigans, cars/vehicles would be impounded overnight in a park ferme. Only repairs allowed would be for safety. And, there would be live coverage updates with camera crews/satellite antennas at each overnight stop to see who made it so far.
Reporters and camera crew could not be in GM sponsored CTS cars. This would look like a setup. They would have to be in their own organization's vehicles so that coverage would be deemed fair and balanced.
great idea, they should pick routes through import dominated markets (east coast and left coast). One could start from Alaska to New Orleans and the other one could start from Montreal, Canada and meet up in New Orleans. Incorporate this trip into commercials and websites with blogs, video....
I'm not so sure you want auto journalist in the commercial, cause their appearance..... Your regular Joe (regular meaning carefully picked by marketing people) might be more appealing. Can a storyline be in it? Have a 30 sec commercial on TV and tell people to go to the GM website for the rest of the story.. Make sure you hand out GM doodads and a chance to win a 2007 Corvette or GTO when you all sign up to watch the movie(heck, if i were in charge, I would make it a drawing every week).
Here's another .01 of mine: incorporate the movie "Road Trip" with those web only BMW films in a H2 or outlook, but do it as a multiple series of 10 min each.
That's why I keep calling for something dramatic from marketing.
What would that be? They have done a lot to increase new car sales:longer warranty, better interiors, better engines, better styling, fewer fleet, etc. Perhaps something to make used GM cars much more advantageous. I know they have the certified used at GM dealers. Perhaps something there to increase their value and therefore increase residuals of the new cars?
The perception that American cars are unreliable is going to be GM's burden for the next 10 years, no matter how good the cars are - unless something spectacular happens to change that perception.
The only thing that will fix that is building bulletproof, overengineered cars for a decade or so, the kind of stuff Mercedes built in the old days and that the Japanese built for a brief season 15 years ago. Beggaring your suppliers into bankruptcy is exactly the wrong way to go about doing that, though.
Agree, but they could also make the b-to-b warranty 5 years/60K miles on all models like Hyundai and increase the time on the powertrain warranty to at least 7 years.
Not many people will be able take advantage of the full 100K miles on the latter in only 5 years.
There isnt much that GM can do to convert die hard haters like the guy's wife here at Edmunds. I mean we have to be honest, people that hate GM are going to quickly dismiss any commercials or reliability oriented stunts like driving from Alaska to Argentina or whatever. Import skeptics will insist its a gimmick and then say "but what happens after 300k miles? My Honda ran for 300k with nothing but oil changes. why dont they show you a commercial with a vehicle still running after 10 years?". It would never end.
The only thing that will work is for import die hards to see other people they know and respect making the leap to domestics and ending the stigma. Vehicles like the 300, Esclade, H2/H3, CTS, etc. can do that but there need to be more vehicles. The Aura and Fusion can probably be put into that category as well but it will take years for this to work. Lets remember that one rule amongst certain people is that WHATEVER the Big 3 do it's wrong. Cadillacs and 300s appeal to athletes, actors and rappers and that has now been turned into a negative by many. People said Cadillac needed younger clients and a better image but those same people will now describe Cadillacs in derrogatory ways because they have seen rappers/athletes drawn to Cadillacs. Interestingly enough those same people wont swear off MBs, Ferraris, Maybachs, Range Rovers, etc. even though celebs love those as well.
"Just have to say that grbeck has a lot of car knowledge, so diss him at your peril, IMO. I've had disagreements with him in the past, but he does know his stuff. "
I dont know if that was aimed at me, but I assure you he isnt the first on here that has disagreed with me that supposedly has a lot of car knowledge. Usually its pretty apparent who knows a lot based on what is written. Perhaps I will read something that supports your statement, but I haven't yet.
I think we are all smart enough to know SOME aspects of cars are subjective but there are some issues that can be debated based on facts. One fact is most of the "buff books" comparisons are based on subjective ratings and thus their conclusions have to be taken with a grain of salt. Since you seem to know this perhaps you could let some of our fellow posters know since they seem to be wed to the idea that any car praised by a monthly mag in a comparo just HAS to be better than the competition, regardless of the merits of that vehicle.
"Same posting of outside articles in their entirety, like Warren Brown's whining"
I suppose that means that any journalist who isnt on the attack agaisnt the domestics is whining. Interesting idea. So if WB changed sides and wrote about GM/Ford losses every week like most other auto journalist I guess he would be OK in your book.
Comments
Not a very thought-provoking response. Kind of simple and distasteful.
>Now we'll
herehear how they're competitive. And before I hear 1492 tell me I don't know anything about the auto industry for the 100th time, My mother-in-law has an Equinox. Biggest POS on the planet.More of the same. Ho hum.
If you're saying you personally don't like something for whatever reason, that can be said in better ways. Myself I can't see why VW still sells their family of cars including Audi here. They're weird, break a lot, and are unimpressive.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Equinox will be updated this year but it might just be too little too late.
I'd put the Fusion on top, followed by the Passat and the Mazda6.
The current Vue is ugly inside and out, but the new one due later this year looks great...probably one of the best-looking small SUVs on the market.
The CTS is the oldest car in the entry luxury class and thus its interior is probably worst in class. No surprise there. I think the A4 and 3 series interiors are better, but I am not crazy about either design. The ES350 and TL interiors are far superior to the Germans if you ask me.
GM only has 8 crossovers because of the lamdas that just went on sale. For most of 2006 GM had 5 crossovers, not a huge difference from 3. The bottom line is Toyota was first to market and now GM leads this segment and the margin is going to get bigger. Toyota easily sells more smal cars than GM even though GM has more small car brands.
your comments are as insightful as always. The Equinox is the biggest POS ever. Don't bother backing that up with any proof or anything.
The equinox surely cant compare with a beauty like the CR-V, that's for sure.
As for styling, most people agreed when it was new that it was attractively styled. Of course Dham wont be impressed but that is no surprise. I dont think he finds the ZO6 impressive either.
Go to truedelta.com to see a true comparison that takes into account features missing on each car to see the price difference. What value is the Camry (or Altima) offering over the Aura? BTW, the CAmry is the only automatic V6 import that I've seen tested that is faster than the Aura. The Accord, Sonata and Altima are all slower with automatics. YOu say the Aura doesn offer more space and performance, but that only can be applied to the Camry and as i noted the performance gap (acceleration) is minimal to say the least. Its almost a dead heat realistically speaking.
Rocky
I did better than that...I went to the dealer and looked at a 2007 model.
And, no, it's not as good as the RAV-4 (or the new CR-V, for that matter, which a friend just purchased).
As I said, the Equinox looks nice on the outside, but needs work on the inside.
Rocky
Exactly, so if Vue and Equinox are not badge-engineered jobs then so aren't Highlander and RX. That was my whole point.
Let's be consistant here.
How's Toyota suppose to have more crossover models than GM when GM "out-brand" them 8 to 3?
I can, however, speak for the Accord (4-cylinder version specifically) due to first-hand experience. It is, IMO, the best 4-cylinder midsize sedan out on the market.
I know the performance and size between the Camry and Aura is not that great but the point I was trying to make is that domestics don't hold the advantage over the imports on those 2 criteria as you have stated earlier.
But if I was looking for something sporty: Mazda6, G6, Malibu, Aura, Accord, Camry
If I was a bit more conservative and premium: Aura, LaCrosse, Aura, Malibu, Camry, Accord, Mazda6
I do not know. How?
I don't know, ask 1487, seems to me he's got it all figure out.
In any event, you seemed to have fully read, understood and gotten the point of the post.
All I said was that for 2006 GM was selling FIVE crossovers (Equninox, Vue, Torrent, SRX, Rendevous) not EIGHT and those FIVE outsold Toyota's THREE crossovers based on numbers someone else posted. I never said Toyota should have more models than GM nor do I think that is possible. Regardless of how many crossover models GM has the point is Toyota was in this market FIRST as you pointed out earlier. They have lost their sales lead and aren't likely to get it back soon. Ford will probably pass them as well with the Edge/MKZ on sale now.
The Highlander and RX are very different, I already conceded that. I don't know what you are arguing about at this point.
louiswei: Yeah, but many of those are badge-engineered jobs and GM has more brand than Toyota.
1487: Yeah, so are is the Highlander/RX (there off we go the RX/Highlander vs. Vue/Equinox discussion. I am glad we agree that RX and Highlander are very different. Just like the Vue and Equinox). What does number of brands has to do with anything?
louiswei: Of course it does. 8 models for 8 brands for GM, 3 models for 3 brands for Toyota. To me they are very even, they all have 1 crossover per brand. By the way, IMO, GM should out sell Toyota 2:1 in the crossover market.
1487: GM out sold Toyota in the Crossover market.
louiswei: Of course it does, with GM's 8 brands vs Toyota's 3, how can it not out sell Toyota? :confuse:
Those are the condense version of our previous posts. Please point out where did I state:
"GM has 8 brands and Toyota is about to pass them" and
"well Toyota cant compete with GM because it has so many brands"
in exact words.
The only thing you are good at, 1487, is to put words into other people's mouth and totally twist the meaning of other posts in yours.
"Of course it does, with GM's 8 brands vs Toyota's 3, how can it not out sell Toyota? "
Um, Toyota beats GM in small car sales, small pickups and hybrid sales even though GM has more brands. When the product is good enough Toyota can outsell GM. I think common sense would dictate that number of dealers would also play a part in this and I'm sure Toyota dealers far outnumber all of GM's brand dealers except Chevy. Yes GM has a lot of brands but Saab, saturn (this is changing), Hummer, Buick and Pontiac are relatively small volume compared to Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.
You should check out the beating I'm taking in Karl's blog about the Tundra. You'll love it.
However, it does frustrate the heck out of me when you often "misunderstood" the original meaning of my posts.
And if Edmunds.com "confirmed" that the RAV4's interior is "one" of the cheapest in its segment (as opposed to "the cheapest"), I have a sneaking suspicion as to which vehicle's interior is cheaper.
Rocky
The Bush Healthcare proposal will solve no problems for poor and middle class folks without. It's like pulling out a 10 foot pole and have the pole tied to the rabbits head and at the other end there is a fresh watery carrot.
That's about how much sense any of this makes. :mad:
Rocky
Rocky
Same parsing/dissection of buff book comparos when they have so many subjective components like "gotta have it."
Same posting of outside articles in their entirety, like Warren Brown's whining. Maybe old Warren should join Lutz at the Firehouse Bar and commiserate.
Just have to say that grbeck has a lot of car knowledge, so diss him at your peril, IMO. I've had disagreements with him in the past, but he does know his stuff. Hey, he said he owns an import AND a domestic, too.
It comes down to what YOU like personally -- you have to do your own comparisons/test drives, and see what moves you.
Back to work...
zeroameca87, "What's the best vehicle for my needs?" #200, 25 Jan 2007 12:51 am
"Most everyone I know has advised me against getting a US made automobile, stating that it would always be in need of repairs. I told myself not to listen but after reading some of these statements im having second thoughts. "
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Heck, my uncle by marriage, a native Kentuckian, won't consider an import, even though the Camry, Solara, and Avalon are built in his home state. I recommended 3 years ago that he and his wife (my late aunt) buy an '04 Malibu with side airbags, based on its good crash test results and generally favorable reviews. They did and were happy with it.
imidazol97, So you have a touch of the CR flu ?????
The only cure is to read the problems/repairs forums of the cars that they claim are so great
Rocky
That's why I keep calling for something dramatic from marketing.
Nobody liked my Times Square Door Slamming, radio blaring, engine-flatout for a year drama-rama, so let's try again.
A fleet of stock GM cars drives from Anchorage to Tiera Del Fuego in South America.....and nothing breaks on any of them!
Cameras record the journey... the Hummers take a special "off-road" route through the Baja - the Cadillacs stop to attend the Opera in Houston or Dallas - All the cars join up for Mardi Gras in New Orleans.
Tacky? You Bet! Lots of coverage of the greatness of GM cars? That can be arranged by the careful car and feeding of reporters.... they ALL drive the 2008 CTS!
Rocky
Every popular (and not-so-popular) car has such a forum. The Edmunds' hosts themselves have said repeatedly such forums can't be used as a statistical indication of reliability, because these boards by their nature will draw mainly those with complaints.
So, you have to rely on CR, JD Powers, or the new kid in town, truedelta.com.
Now I must really get back to work before the boss finds out...
Jay Leno drives a Cadillac V-16 prototype and does his show each night from cities along the way.. with a big special on the car done in Las Vegas!
Jay stops at the American Border, of course - the V-16 is an AMERICAN car.
Land Rover has been doing expeditions around the world since the 1950s when Land Rover did the London to Singapore expedition.
More recently Land Rover did the Longitude expedition. Four CPO Discoveries driving around the world from North to south...
http://www.drivearoundtheworld.com/index.html
http://www.landrover.de/us/en/Company/Around_the_world/expeditions/DATW.htm
Cameras record the journey...
Tacky? You Bet! Lots of coverage of the greatness of GM cars? That can be arranged by the careful car and feeding of reporters.... they ALL drive the 2008 CTS!
Great idea for GM. Maybe GM could even challenge other car makers to compete. Event would be organized by neutral organization with experience in these matters. Perhaps World Rally group, Paris/Dakar organizers, or even SCCA could do it. It would be called the Great GM Challenge, the motor event of the decade.
Cars/vehicles would have to be totally stock and bought anonymously from dealers just like Consumer Reports apparently does. Cars/vehicles could not be tricked out by manufacturers.
To make sure no shenanigans, cars/vehicles would be impounded overnight in a park ferme. Only repairs allowed would be for safety. And, there would be live coverage updates with camera crews/satellite antennas at each overnight stop to see who made it so far.
Reporters and camera crew could not be in GM sponsored CTS cars. This would look like a setup. They would have to be in their own organization's vehicles so that coverage would be deemed fair and balanced.
I'm not so sure you want auto journalist in the commercial, cause their appearance..... Your regular Joe (regular meaning carefully picked by marketing people) might be more appealing. Can a storyline be in it? Have a 30 sec commercial on TV and tell people to go to the GM website for the rest of the story.. Make sure you hand out GM doodads and a chance to win a 2007 Corvette or GTO when you all sign up to watch the movie(heck, if i were in charge, I would make it a drawing every week).
Here's another .01 of mine: incorporate the movie "Road Trip" with those web only BMW films in a H2 or outlook, but do it as a multiple series of 10 min each.
What would that be? They have done a lot to increase new car sales:longer warranty, better interiors, better engines, better styling, fewer fleet, etc. Perhaps something to make used GM cars much more advantageous. I know they have the certified used at GM dealers. Perhaps something there to increase their value and therefore increase residuals of the new cars?
The only thing that will fix that is building bulletproof, overengineered cars for a decade or so, the kind of stuff Mercedes built in the old days and that the Japanese built for a brief season 15 years ago. Beggaring your suppliers into bankruptcy is exactly the wrong way to go about doing that, though.
Not many people will be able take advantage of the full 100K miles on the latter in only 5 years.
Hey - NO FAIR!
Not only did you use the idea I just had years before I suggested it, you even stole my Jay Leno idea! :mad:
TONIGHT SHOW Host Jay Leno Supports LONGITUDE Expedition
How can I demand royalties from you if you did it first though? :sick:
I have about 30 minutes of video compiled from the Longitude expedition and it is very, very cool.
The only thing that will work is for import die hards to see other people they know and respect making the leap to domestics and ending the stigma. Vehicles like the 300, Esclade, H2/H3, CTS, etc. can do that but there need to be more vehicles. The Aura and Fusion can probably be put into that category as well but it will take years for this to work. Lets remember that one rule amongst certain people is that WHATEVER the Big 3 do it's wrong. Cadillacs and 300s appeal to athletes, actors and rappers and that has now been turned into a negative by many. People said Cadillac needed younger clients and a better image but those same people will now describe Cadillacs in derrogatory ways because they have seen rappers/athletes drawn to Cadillacs. Interestingly enough those same people wont swear off MBs, Ferraris, Maybachs, Range Rovers, etc. even though celebs love those as well.
I dont know if that was aimed at me, but I assure you he isnt the first on here that has disagreed with me that supposedly has a lot of car knowledge. Usually its pretty apparent who knows a lot based on what is written. Perhaps I will read something that supports your statement, but I haven't yet.
I think we are all smart enough to know SOME aspects of cars are subjective but there are some issues that can be debated based on facts. One fact is most of the "buff books" comparisons are based on subjective ratings and thus their conclusions have to be taken with a grain of salt. Since you seem to know this perhaps you could let some of our fellow posters know since they seem to be wed to the idea that any car praised by a monthly mag in a comparo just HAS to be better than the competition, regardless of the merits of that vehicle.
"Same posting of outside articles in their entirety, like Warren Brown's whining"
I suppose that means that any journalist who isnt on the attack agaisnt the domestics is whining. Interesting idea. So if WB changed sides and wrote about GM/Ford losses every week like most other auto journalist I guess he would be OK in your book.