I'll also second your statement. GM has to offer twice as much at less cost in order to be considered, but in reality, that's just an excuse. In our superficial society, being hip is an important personal quality, and it isn't cool to own a GM in many quarters. The Anti-domestic crowd will have all kinds of practical reasons why they won't buy GM, but it's really just the snob factor at work.
Do most people want a car that offers a lot of features for a good price? Some do, but I submit that what most people want is a car that simply costs more than their neighbors car. Few aspire to a Malibu, but an Acura TL - now you're talkin'.
The G6 didnt sell as well as the camry but it did sell well. I would think that there are more than enough G6s on the road to keep "problems" forums on edmunds busy if the car was junk.
The G-6 isn't junk, but most of its customers were Avis. The Camry is also going into some rental fleets now, but the major customer for the Camry is still Joe Public. After driving the two, it's easy to see why.
You, I, imidazol97, lemko, 62', 1487, snake, readerreader, etc...etc....can argue, find facts, show others GM's new improvements and they will still slam us. I honestly don't understand why some people want GM to go out of business. If it wasn't for GM, the united states might of lost WWII.
NV, you probably rented a base stripped G6 and the Camry was at least a mid level car if I was willing to place a bet. GM, about a month or so ago said they need to eliminate base "stripped" versions of their products from the rental fleets which hurts customer image. I will say go rent a base Aura or the upcoming 08' Malibu when it comes out and I think you will see a huge difference.
SYDNEY — General Motors unit Holden in Australia picks up a coveted prize: the company's VE Commodore has been named Wheels magazine's Car of the Year for 2006
RUSSELSHEIM, Germany — In an impressive example of how global collaboration can work, General Motors on Thursday rolled out the 264-horsepower 2007 Opel GT, the European variant of the Saturn Sky Red Line.
DETROIT — In stark counterpoint to the dismal financial news from the Ford Motor Company on Thursday, General Motors said that, although it is delaying release of its financial results, it expects "record fourth-quarter revenue in 2006." It also said in a statement that net income is expected to "improve significantly" over the fourth quarter of 2005.
>base stripped G6 and the Camry was at least a mid level
It's odd that car-oriented people don't distinguish between the trim levels when it is against GM's image to assume the stripper, cheapest G6 is typical!!!
That's kinda my point. I often have seen friends rent a base GM car for business but when they travel with their family they rent a top level import. Kinda funny isn't it. :mad:
Better product from Japan was the reason for the change. Will have to disagree with the concept of it being just image. Japan won over people in their sixties, seventies and eighties which have never owned anything but domestics. These people do not care if they are hip. My Dad always owned domestic cars, and most were GM. He bought a Camry in 1991 and liked it so much he replaced that one with another Camry in 2000. He prefers the feel of the car, good gas mileage, excellent resale and reliability.
GM offering a V6 based on 1980 technology ain't gonna win over a Japan make with a modern day four cylinder. And in the high tech V6 line they are not exactly pulling away. Their cars are somewhat better, but is that enough. Since quality to fell to piss poor levels up to a few years ago, GM will have to offer what Hyundai does in the way of warranty and value to be a leading car again. Do the GM cars like the Malibu come with Stabilitrak and a DOHC engine? It's coming? It is always getting here a few years late. Over a hundred years in the car business and a Korean car company is building a higher tech car for less money - go figure? Maybe it is time for GM to get out of the lines of cars below Cadillac level? Yes, some basic sedans from GM are decent, I would be foolish to say otherwise, but few of the cars are class leading in any way. An Aura is an OK car, but they could have made the 3.6 the only engine and had even more to offer. Take the car as a whole, with every element in consideration, even the one price to all, it is but an average value. I prefer the interior of say the Accord. And since the Saturn price is locked, there is not discounting. Resale is buy average, so the net-net value is nothing stellar. I drove the base car, it was an OK car. Maybe I should drive it again, as I don't see how people are getting so excited by this model. Seems average to me. Maybe the salesman playing the stupid OnStar ad while I was trying to concentrate on the car threw me.
You must lead, follow or get out of the way. Dangerous game, always having to play catch-up. -Loren
ON some models, SRX for example, they dont even agree.
On a serious note, however, it is common that auto mags don't agree on their view of cars. For example, C&D loves the 3-series to death and never liked the IS350. In a IS350 vs 330i comparo late 2005 (or early '06) even though the IS350 beats the 330i across the board (except 2 I think) they managed to make the score a tie at the end. More rediculously, instead of settle for a tie they gave ONE "must have" point to 330i to make it a winner.
MT seems to have the mentality. In the 330i vs. G35 test late last year, they handed the title to 330i because of "must have" despite the new G is more powerful, more affortable and similar in performance. R&T on the other hand seems to like the IS350 enough to rank it (an automatic) over the manual G35S and TL-S in the January 2007 issue.
I know those are not GM cars but I use that as an example to show that sometimes auto mags don't agree with each other even on IMPORTS. However, when the Aura consistantly being placed behind Camry (MT COTY) and Accord (C&D mid-priced midsize sedan comparo) then I don't think it is unreasonable to say: Maybe the Aura is good, but not good enough to be the class yet, wouldn't you think?
You are looking for the Buick LeSabre. Around $14K used for say a 2004 model year. I guess one could call it a controlled ride. Overall it is comfort and affordable -- used. Bought new, someone took a hell of a hit. I learned to drive in a '61 LeSabre before taking the actual drive course in a Chrysler provided car.
As for trannies, my Acheiva had an old 3 speed automatic which worked. Guess they could even go back to the 2 speed. Not sure why you would not want a 5 or 6 speed though in 2007.
I take it you do not believe that 5 star crash results for the Sonata, Camry and Accord mean anything? How about side impact scores? Check out the rear collision whiplash score for a Sonata, which are good. I would assume that a car manufacturer in the business for over a 100 years could at the least match a little Korean company. Doesn't pay to assume. -Loren
GM, is paying it's people alot more than Koreans on average. How much are those Koreans making per hour ???? I know they are unionized but I'm sure it's way below our current mininum wage. The fact remains the Koreans are able to buy raw material and parts cheaper in their own country and turn around and sell it here to us. It probably costs the Koreans $5-8K give or take to build a Sonata, and they can turn around and sell them for $17-23K? to undercut the competition. They will be ran out of business if the Chinese are able to build a quality product like the Koreans and under cut them.
Yeah, and GM cars don't have that funky smell those Korean rides have. What the heck is that? If you've ever been in a Hyundai or Kia, you'll know what I'm talking about. It doesn't diminish with age. My brother's 2000 Sonata still had that odor when he traded it for a similar smelling 2005 model.
If it wasn't for GM, the united states might of lost WWII.
Oh give me a break, I agree that GM is important to the whole US economy but let's not glorified GM. WWII will be won no matter what because Japan got stuck in China, ran out of resource and Hitler was dumb enough to fight a 2-front war. Without GM MAYBE the war will be prolong for another 6 months or so but loss WWII? Now that's just crazy.
Rocky, go read some history books or watch History Channel, they really do help.
If GM and Ford always had the better engineering for their products, then indeed people would pay a little more. What happened is that Japan moved ahead with four cylinders which were not thrashy like the domestics, and six cylinder engines which provide what use to be considered only V8 in the way of power. A reputation was built for reliability. So now it is catch-up time. It is hard to win every football game down by 15 points with but five minutes to play.
Why do they want, or is it demand more from the domestics? Another reason, which is debated constantly on the boards here, is the past. Those which got burned by crappy product are hard to win back. Too bad in a way that you have to pay over and over again for the sins of the past which were not yours, but that is the way it goes. Well you can try the approach of Hyundai, and offer content and warranty. And if you think of the silly cars, like those first efforts by Subaru in USA, you can see how steady improvement of product pays out. In that respect, the GM product seems to be improving. Did they wait too long though.
As for hating the employees of GM - doubt most people even know any of them. Oh they may wish to meet the guy that left a bolt out, or a Coke bottle in the door Do hope those days are long gone. Actually, you go back long enough and GM had the leading quality cars - they looked hot too! You know the 60's and earliest of 70's had some cool GM and Ford cars, as well as Chrysler/Dodge really neat efforts of the day. -Loren
Six months and maybe a hundred thousand more American casualties. Shoot, if GM spared us an extra six months of casualties, our debt to them is incalculable. That soldier or sailor who'd have died could've been your grandfather.
And I may add, GM should be selling more cars in China than Japan brands. The war left some deep cuts. Chinese were none too happy with the Japanese. -Loren
I often have seen friends rent a base GM car for business but when they travel with their family they rent a top level import.
Maybe because that's all their company willing to pay?
Give you my personally experience:
Last year, interview one: Buick LaSabre (I would never get that car if it was up to me). Interview two: Nissan Sentra (I prefer those Altimas parked next to it). House-hunting trip: Dodge Magnum V6 (What a POC) Business trip to Cedar Rapids late last year: Chevy Impala V6 (no kick what-so-ever, felt like I was driving my old Honda Accord I4).
Above 4 all paid by company within budget.
During our family trip to New Orleans 2 years ago, out of our own pocket, used my dad's company discount we got ourselves a loaded Ford Expedition. Man that thing is sweet and the best Ford I've been in ever. However, there is no way in hell that my company will be renting me a leather-trimmed SUV use on any business trip.
You are correct, China in general is still pretty anti-Japan. That's one of the main reasons why Toyota/Honda seem to be successful everywhere else besides China. Since China is a fast growing market, this could end up to be devastating for Japanese big 3.
PS, those right wing Japanese politicians are not helping the situation at all either.
Rocky, go read some history books or watch History Channel, they really do help.
I do watch the history channel and have read several history books on this matter. I also will assume you've missed the publications and history channels story discussing the importance of company's like GM's war efforts. GM, still to this day can reprogram the computers and robots to go from making parts like Fuel Injectors to making ammunition, guns, tanks, rockets, etc if another world war on a mass scale broke out ever again my GM/Delphi father said.
Do the GM cars like the Malibu come with Stabilitrak and a DOHC engine?
Yes and a 6 speed and the 4 comes with a 6 speed too. First ever 6 cylinder/6 speed combo. An Aura is an OK car, but they could have made the 3.6 the only engine and had even more to offer
Huhh? make the 3.6 the only engine and had even more to offer??? Why do you care if they have a cheaper V6 for those who want it. The 3.6 is there just for you. Do not worry about all those other folks who do not give a darn about those DOHC whatever it is. They drove the base and liked it and bought it. It is cheaper and that is what most care about.
However, when the Aura consistantly being placed behind Camry (MT COTY) and Accord (C&D mid-priced midsize sedan comparo) then I don't think it is unreasonable to say: Maybe the Aura is good, but not good enough to be the class yet, wouldn't you think?
Not so consistent. Aura won the car of the year from a nationwide group of automotive press, including MT and C&D, by a long shot over the Camry. Not so consistent.
You can't compare salaries straight-up. Have to take the living stardard into consideration.
You obviously missed my point. My point was louiswei, once agin was to point out WHY the korean cars are able to under cut both the domestics and japanese in price WHILE retaining high quality. I know for a fact the koreans autoworkers make good wages for their country (cost of living) but that wasn't my point. My point was no matter how well they are paid it's significantly less than american wages and cost of living standard. They will suffer because the average chinese factory worker makes like $0.43 an hour according to Lou Dobbs. If the Chinese paid their automobile workers $0.75 an hour it's still less than what the Koreans are getting. I believe the Korean's are making $2-3 an hour but don't quote me.
Thank-you....louiswei, why do you spend time in these forums ???? I don't mind you being here but it seems like every post you make really has nothing positive about GM. I at least make a effort to recognize that your Lexus IS 350 is a very nice car and in the ELLPS forum I said it was IMHO the best ELLPS car in 07'.
I know you made a couple of positive remarks about the Vette and 08' CTS, so I guess that is a start for you, eh ?
I thought the Aura was to be a World class car? The 3.5 V6 is alright as something in an Impala or Monte, but it seems a crude tool for an Aura. At idle, my test car seemed to sputter a bit, like it had a heart problem. Would not keep an even beat. The power was OK, but not what I could feel as different than the large four cylinders. I don't see any antique engine offerings from Toyota, Honda, or Hyundai in six cylinder engines. Guess they see no market for them
Looks to me like Malibu uses a four speed automatic. Yeap, it gets ya there, and may even be reliable. The New Malibu will have the latest tranny available from GM no doubt. The game of catch up. -Loren
Maybe GM should move their plant to China then, in order to stay competitive. I always support the idea to move factories and plants to low labor areas (like China and India) and keep the design centers here in order to attract America's youngest and brightest. Without a doubt, this country still has the top notch higher education system in the world.
My vision is to have the good ole' US of A become the Silicon Valley of the world. This would definitely please those tree huggers I assume...
Article says battery could be ready by 2010. That is only 3 years away and it would take that long just to develop the car. Hopefully GM is going ahead and making a Volt type vehicle now and the battery will be ready to drop in by the time it is ready. If so this could be in dealerships about 2011!
By Drew Winter Jan. 29, 2007
General Motors Corp. learned many painful lessons from its billion-dollar misadventure with its first electric car, the EV-1.
Among them: Consumers won’t buy an electric car if it has limited range and limited room and runs out of juice suddenly after climbing a hill or turning on the air conditioning.
Designers learned a hard lesson, too: No matter how environmentally friendly a vehicle is, if it looks weird, people won’t buy it.
The upside of this school of hard knocks is that it led to the visually stunning Chevrolet Volt concept, a plug-in hybrid-electric vehicle (PHEV) introduced at the North American International Auto Show. It was a show-stopper as much for its looks as for its innovative powertrain.
The Volt can be fully charged by plugging it into a standard 110-volt outlet for about six hours and it can drive about 40 miles (64 km) under purely electric power. When the battery is depleted, unlike with the EV-1, a 1L 3-cyl. turbocharged engine acts as a generator to replenish the batteries enroute.
“If you lived within 30 miles (48 km) from work and charged your vehicle every night when you came home or during the day at work, you would get 150 mpg (1.6L 100/km),” GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz says.
He adds that because more than half of Americans have a commute within the Volt’s all-electric range, “You might never burn a drop of gas in the life of the car.”
Skeptics point out the technology on which the Volt is based – a large lithium-ion battery that is cost-effective and durable enough to withstand a rigorous duty cycle of charging and discharging – has not yet been invented.
Nevertheless, GM recently announced two supplier contracts to develop Li-ion batteries for the Saturn Vue Green Line PHEV, which GM has committed to building, possibly by 2010.
One battery contract is with Saft Advanced Power Solutions LLC, a joint venture between Johnson Controls Inc. and Paris-based Saft Groupe SA; the other is with Michigan-based Cobasys, a JV between Chevron Technology Ventures LLC, a subsidiary of Chevron Corp., and Energy Conversion Devices.
Some experts predict such advanced batteries could be production-ready by 2010 or 2012. Despite the vagaries of the battery technology, GM executives make it clear the Volt is not “just a science project” built for show, and its sophisticated design – based on an upcoming mass-production GM platform – underscores the point.
The Volt’s E-Flex platform is an adapted version of GM’s future Global Compact Vehicle Architecture (Delta) that will underpin the next-generation Chevy Cobalt and HHR. GM managers say they want to leverage the auto maker’s global manufacturing capability to produce the Volt in several different regions, rather than produce a low-volume niche model solely for the U.S.
The E-Flex architecture “strikes at the heart of some of the paradigms that govern this industry,” Jon Lauckner, GM vice president-global program management, says.
The Volt’s 12-gallon (45L) tank can hold gasoline or biofuels such as E85, a gasoline/ethanol blend. The architecture also is designed to accommodate a fuel cell-powered version of the powertrain.
“If it’s in Europe, it could be biodiesel; if it’s in Brazil, it could be E100 (100% ethanol), Lauckner says. “GM is committed to making this a volume play globally.”
GM engineers say the per-mile cost for electrical power is roughly one third the price of gasoline. But the innovation does not stop at the Volt’s powertrain. It uses a variety of ingenious materials, technologies and ideas.
Built in Alabama, which is in the good ol' USA of A. Interesting to note that the Hyundai works have been on strike 18 out of the 19 years since unionized. Maybe they are not a happy bunch -- who knows. As for the Sonata, it is US built and the engines are made in the same plant as the car. Kinda interesting. -Loren
Six months ago, virtually any article focusing on General Motors wasn’t about product; rather, it was all about personality. GM shareholder Kirk Kerkorian (love the alliteration) was pushing GM execs to explore an alliance with Renault/Nissan’s Carlos Ghosn, an initiative Mr. Kerkorian had jump-started on his own. The groundwork was laid, meetings were held and, ultimately, no accord was signed. In sum, a pleasant summer diversion for the automotive media and Wall Street.
Six months later, with both L.A. and – in early January – the Detroit auto shows behind us, we can once again turn our attention to product. General Motors is in the midst of a turnaround, led – we’re happy to note – by a significant recommitment to the design of product. It couldn’t have come at a better time.
Members of the automotive media received a preview of that recommitment in a Los Angeles session conducted by senior members of GM’s design team. Of course we’ve seen ample evidence of an improved portfolio in recent product launches, led – in our admittedly narrow view – by the Corvette C6 exterior, Solstice/Sky sheet metal and the Saturn Aura’s interior upgrades. None of these automotive treatments achieve absolute perfection, but all rekindle memories of the Good Ol’ Days, when GM design influenced the work of other carmakers throughout the world.
From what we saw in Los Angeles, those Good Ol’ Days might be returning. In the past any number of GM’s (generally successful) exterior treatments have cloaked interior themes whose execution is considerably less successful. We ranted for years regarding switchgear whose design was seemingly influenced by Fisher-Price and whose feel was closer to Romper Room than Rodeo Drive.
A look at Cadillac’s Escalade Platinum revealed an attention to detail fully – and finally – appropriate to its elevated window sticker. Within it – and other cabins on display – GM’s design staff has paid particular attention to materials, their texture and craftsmanship. Upholstery benefits from accent stitching, piping, and perforated leather, while GM’s holistic approach to all aspects of the interior (instrumentation, graphics and lighting – to name but a few) creates a far more integrated look. A similar impression was imparted by the interior buck of GMC’s Acadia. As mentioned in our preview on December 14th, the Acadia is a new crossover sharing its platform with Saturn’s newly-introduced Outlook and Buick’s forthcoming Enclave. While similar in profile and platform, significant effort has gone into interior differentiation; the design and product teams have gone so far as to provide color-keyed instrumentation specific to the brand. In both the GMC and Saturn (which we drove later) the upgrades in quality are dramatically evident. For immediate proof, take a quick gander at today’s Envoy or Vue.
Another bright spot was the interior redo of Cadillac’s SRX. Based on the CTS platform, and available in both rwd and all-wheel drive, the SRX’s rather quiet sheet metal and modest execution have been overshadowed by the bling factor evident in Cadillac’s Escalade. With consumers’ attention returning once again – we hope – to efficiency, the SRX should be getting more of that attention. And prospects should be pleased by mods made to the interior package, with – again – far more attention paid to materials, textures and craftsmanship. In point of fact, with transaction prices well back of window sticker the SRX menu of flexible storage, competent handling and reasonable efficiency should put it on buyers’ short lists if, in fact, they’ve tired of the big-buck fill ups.
In Detroit, which I didn’t attend, Cadillac rolled out the ’08 CTS and all-new Malibu. As profiled by Autoweek in its January 15th issue, the new Cadillac redevelops its ‘new edge’ design theme with a softened – yet no less dynamic – angularity, wider track, better wheel well/tire relationship and more aggressive grille. In short, the exterior seems to flow in a much more unified fashion; today’s CTS always seemed to be more of a collection of disparate pieces, lacking the unity great design themes typically enjoy.
The Malibu, sharing its platform with Saturn’s Aura, represents arguably the most significant leap for the nameplate since its mid-sixties introduction. While the Aura comes with a V6 powertrain – and $20K-plus price point – as standard, Chevrolet will provide consumers with their choice of four or six-cylinder powertrains, as well as a starting point on the friendlier side of $20K. GM, of course, hopes there exists room for both; we don’t see either Chevy or Saturn struggling for prospects. And like Ford’s Fusion, the new Malibu would seem to fill a huge gap in Chevy’s car menu.
The strides GM is making in design were validated by a jury of automotive journalists voting for North American Car & Truck of the Year. On the car side of the ballot Saturn’s Aura took the nod, exceeding in vote total the numbers posted by Honda’s Fit and Toyota’s Camry. And on the truck side, jurors concurred with Motor Trend, designating Chevy’s Silverado their Truck of the Year. In both instances competent platforms and attractive sheet metal are complimented by interior executions – in most trim levels – exceeding expectations.
So for GM CEO Rick Wagoner and crew it’s onward and upward. Mr. Kerkorian has turned his attention elsewhere, Carlos Ghosn is refocused internally and John Mellencamp is forcing many of us into audio-induced rehab. The beat – to cop a line from Sonny Bono – goes on...
Loren, if you don't like the 3.5 stay away from it ???? You can get a smooth Ecotec 4 or a 3.6 "High Feature" V6. I agree the 3.5 V6 isn't that great and they should of kept the "shortstar" 3.5 around perhaps with 215 hp. I personally would of like GM, to have this engine line-up for the Aura.
Ectoec-4
3.5 Shortstar V-6
3.6 "HF" 252 hp
and a limited edition Redline with a Twin Turbo Ecotec 4 with 300 hp w/wo AWD ?
I always support the idea to move factories and plants to low labor areas (like China and India) and keep the design centers here in order to attract America's youngest and brightest.
So you support outsourcing ? I guess you want nothing made here in the U.S. ?????? .....Interesting.....If these brightest minds are so great here in the U.S. then why did they design cars like the Aztec. :P
"The G-6 isn't junk, but most of its customers were Avis."
wrong. do you have any numbers to back that up? Of course you don't. The majority of G6s are sold to retail customers, not rental fleets. As for driving the two, I'm sure the G6's driving experience is at least as engaging as the numb camry. Let's try to stick to the facts.
If it looks weird people won't buy it? I disagree, as the Prius to me looks like a skateboard ramp, and it sold. I do see they are now stacking up on the car lot though. Maybe the sales rush is over for Toyota.
Yes, the Volt looks promising for a commuter or short range car. Pretty cool indeed! Great miles per dollar. Some areas, like say Idaho have lower electric bills, so they get an added value as they would be commuting to Boise or Nampa. Here in Cali, home of Arnie and his Hummer, the electric prices are a bit higher. But yeah, it looks like this new GM car saves money, is clean, and would work out for some people that drive shorter ranges. I take it nuclear power plans are in the works too? If other major sources of power to generation become available, it will be an electric everything world. I take it electricity is the charge required to make the hydrogen car work. -Loren
This is turning VERY personal and not heading in a very good direction if we expect this discussion to continue.
Nobody is "proving" anything here. Varying opinions, even ones you may disagree with, are going to be posted. That's not an excuse to toss insults or challenges.
I'd personally would love reading them. If you'd like you can e-mail them to me. My e-mail address is on my SN icon. I also don't understand why anyone would get mad. This is after all a GM forum and articles pertaining to GM, should be posted for us fans to read. I personally find it educating and interesting to read articles about GM.
Why's that the design can be from other countries but not the product? GM, Ford and Chrysler also employ hundreds of thousands design engineers you know. It's not like UAW are the only employees in the auto industry. Assembly and part production are only part of the process of making a car. Design is what you begin with and is also counted into the cost of the car. Ever heard of life cycle cost?
So you don't consider getting designs from Europe, Japan and China a form of oursourcing?
Let's get real here, we are living in the age of "global economy". Anyone here thinks that everything should be "made in USA" has stuck his/her head in the sand for the last decade or so.
Last but not least, that "Viatnam dude" looks very Americanized to me and I am pretty sure he got his diploma from an American university. Don't be surprised if you find out one of the design engineers for the next gen fighter has Chinese background...
Comments
crowd will have all kinds of practical reasons why they won't buy GM, but it's really just the snob factor at work.
Do most people want a car that offers a lot of features for a good price? Some do, but I submit that what most people want is a car that simply costs more than their neighbors car. Few aspire to a Malibu, but an Acura TL - now you're talkin'.
The G-6 isn't junk, but most of its customers were Avis. The Camry is also going into some rental fleets now, but the major customer for the Camry is still Joe Public. After driving the two, it's easy to see why.
Rocky
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119371
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119370
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119387
Rocky
It's odd that car-oriented people don't distinguish between the trim levels when it is against GM's image to assume the stripper, cheapest G6 is typical!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
GM offering a V6 based on 1980 technology ain't gonna win over a Japan make with a modern day four cylinder. And in the high tech V6 line they are not exactly pulling away. Their cars are somewhat better, but is that enough. Since quality to fell to piss poor levels up to a few years ago, GM will have to offer what Hyundai does in the way of warranty and value to be a leading car again. Do the GM cars like the Malibu come with Stabilitrak and a DOHC engine? It's coming? It is always getting here a few years late. Over a hundred years in the car business and a Korean car company is building a higher tech car for less money - go figure? Maybe it is time for GM to get out of the lines of cars below Cadillac level? Yes, some basic sedans from GM are decent, I would be foolish to say otherwise, but few of the cars are class leading in any way.
An Aura is an OK car, but they could have made the 3.6 the only engine and had even more to offer. Take the car as a whole, with every element in consideration, even the one price to all, it is but an average value. I prefer the interior of say the Accord. And since the Saturn price is locked, there is not discounting. Resale is buy average, so the net-net value is nothing stellar. I drove the base car, it was an OK car. Maybe I should drive it again, as I don't see how people are getting so excited by this model. Seems average to me. Maybe the salesman playing the stupid OnStar ad while I was trying to concentrate on the car threw me.
You must lead, follow or get out of the way. Dangerous game, always having to play catch-up.
-Loren
Spin, spin off we go...
:P
ON some models, SRX for example, they dont even agree.
On a serious note, however, it is common that auto mags don't agree on their view of cars. For example, C&D loves the 3-series to death and never liked the IS350. In a IS350 vs 330i comparo late 2005 (or early '06) even though the IS350 beats the 330i across the board (except 2 I think) they managed to make the score a tie at the end. More rediculously, instead of settle for a tie they gave ONE "must have" point to 330i to make it a winner.
MT seems to have the mentality. In the 330i vs. G35 test late last year, they handed the title to 330i because of "must have" despite the new G is more powerful, more affortable and similar in performance. R&T on the other hand seems to like the IS350 enough to rank it (an automatic) over the manual G35S and TL-S in the January 2007 issue.
I know those are not GM cars but I use that as an example to show that sometimes auto mags don't agree with each other even on IMPORTS. However, when the Aura consistantly being placed behind Camry (MT COTY) and Accord (C&D mid-priced midsize sedan comparo) then I don't think it is unreasonable to say: Maybe the Aura is good, but not good enough to be the class yet, wouldn't you think?
As for trannies, my Acheiva had an old 3 speed automatic which worked. Guess they could even go back to the 2 speed. Not sure why you would not want a 5 or 6 speed though in 2007.
I take it you do not believe that 5 star crash results for the Sonata, Camry and Accord mean anything? How about side impact scores? Check out the rear collision whiplash score for a Sonata, which are good. I would assume that a car manufacturer in the business for over a 100 years could at the least match a little Korean company. Doesn't pay to assume.
-Loren
GM, is paying it's people alot more than Koreans on average. How much are those Koreans making per hour ???? I know they are unionized but I'm sure it's way below our current mininum wage. The fact remains the Koreans are able to buy raw material and parts cheaper in their own country and turn around and sell it here to us. It probably costs the Koreans $5-8K give or take to build a Sonata, and they can turn around and sell them for $17-23K? to undercut the competition. They will be ran out of business if the Chinese are able to build a quality product like the Koreans and under cut them.
Rocky
Oh give me a break, I agree that GM is important to the whole US economy but let's not glorified GM. WWII will be won no matter what because Japan got stuck in China, ran out of resource and Hitler was dumb enough to fight a 2-front war. Without GM MAYBE the war will be prolong for another 6 months or so but loss WWII? Now that's just crazy.
Rocky, go read some history books or watch History Channel, they really do help.
Why do they want, or is it demand more from the domestics? Another reason, which is debated constantly on the boards here, is the past. Those which got burned by crappy product are hard to win back. Too bad in a way that you have to pay over and over again for the sins of the past which were not yours, but that is the way it goes. Well you can try the approach of Hyundai, and offer content and warranty. And if you think of the silly cars, like those first efforts by Subaru in USA, you can see how steady improvement of product pays out. In that respect, the GM product seems to be improving. Did they wait too long though.
As for hating the employees of GM - doubt most people even know any of them. Oh they may wish to meet the guy that left a bolt out, or a Coke bottle in the door
-Loren
-Loren
Maybe because that's all their company willing to pay?
Give you my personally experience:
Last year, interview one: Buick LaSabre (I would never get that car if it was up to me).
Interview two: Nissan Sentra (I prefer those Altimas parked next to it).
House-hunting trip: Dodge Magnum V6 (What a POC)
Business trip to Cedar Rapids late last year: Chevy Impala V6 (no kick what-so-ever, felt like I was driving my old Honda Accord I4).
Above 4 all paid by company within budget.
During our family trip to New Orleans 2 years ago, out of our own pocket, used my dad's company discount we got ourselves a loaded Ford Expedition. Man that thing is sweet and the best Ford I've been in ever. However, there is no way in hell that my company will be renting me a leather-trimmed SUV use on any business trip.
PS, those right wing Japanese politicians are not helping the situation at all either.
Not pulling away? Last time I checked they are trailing in that field as well. You are talking about high tech V6 right?
Toyota 2GR-series/Nissan VQ-sereis vs. GM 3.6L V6/Ford 3.5L V6.
That's 'nuff said.
You can't compare salaries straight-up. Have to take the living stardard into consideration.
Samething goes for workers in China.
Also, people over there don't pay 25-30% tax like we do here. They pretty much got every single penny written on the contract without any deductables.
I do watch the history channel and have read several history books on this matter. I also will assume you've missed the publications and history channels story discussing the importance of company's like GM's war efforts. GM, still to this day can reprogram the computers and robots to go from making parts like Fuel Injectors to making ammunition, guns, tanks, rockets, etc if another world war on a mass scale broke out ever again my GM/Delphi father said.
Rocky
Yes and a 6 speed and the 4 comes with a 6 speed too. First ever 6 cylinder/6 speed combo.
An Aura is an OK car, but they could have made the 3.6 the only engine and had even more to offer
Huhh? make the 3.6 the only engine and had even more to offer??? Why do you care if they have a cheaper V6 for those who want it. The 3.6 is there just for you. Do not worry about all those other folks who do not give a darn about those DOHC whatever it is. They drove the base and liked it and bought it. It is cheaper and that is what most care about.
Not so consistent. Aura won the car of the year from a nationwide group of automotive press, including MT and C&D, by a long shot over the Camry. Not so consistent.
And you would not be here!
You obviously missed my point. My point was louiswei, once agin was to point out WHY the korean cars are able to under cut both the domestics and japanese in price WHILE retaining high quality. I know for a fact the koreans autoworkers make good wages for their country (cost of living) but that wasn't my point. My point was no matter how well they are paid it's significantly less than american wages and cost of living standard. They will suffer because the average chinese factory worker makes like $0.43 an hour according to Lou Dobbs. If the Chinese paid their automobile workers $0.75 an hour it's still less than what the Koreans are getting. I believe the Korean's are making $2-3 an hour but don't quote me.
Rocky
Same thing goes for the nuclear bomb, that invention shortened the war too. My point is, yes GM is important to US but let's not glorify it.
I know you made a couple of positive remarks about the Vette and 08' CTS, so I guess that is a start for you, eh ?
Rocky
Looks to me like Malibu uses a four speed automatic. Yeap, it gets ya there, and may even be reliable. The New Malibu will have the latest tranny available from GM no doubt. The game of catch up.
-Loren
Rocky
Thanks!
My vision is to have the good ole' US of A become the Silicon Valley of the world. This would definitely please those tree huggers I assume...
By Drew Winter
Jan. 29, 2007
General Motors Corp. learned many painful lessons from its billion-dollar misadventure with its first electric car, the EV-1.
Among them: Consumers won’t buy an electric car if it has limited range and limited room and runs out of juice suddenly after climbing a hill or turning on the air conditioning.
Designers learned a hard lesson, too: No matter how environmentally friendly a vehicle is, if it looks weird, people won’t buy it.
The upside of this school of hard knocks is that it led to the visually stunning Chevrolet Volt concept, a plug-in hybrid-electric vehicle (PHEV) introduced at the North American International Auto Show. It was a show-stopper as much for its looks as for its innovative powertrain.
The Volt can be fully charged by plugging it into a standard 110-volt outlet for about six hours and it can drive about 40 miles (64 km) under purely electric power. When the battery is depleted, unlike with the EV-1, a 1L 3-cyl. turbocharged engine acts as a generator to replenish the batteries enroute.
“If you lived within 30 miles (48 km) from work and charged your vehicle every night when you came home or during the day at work, you would get 150 mpg (1.6L 100/km),” GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz says.
He adds that because more than half of Americans have a commute within the Volt’s all-electric range, “You might never burn a drop of gas in the life of the car.”
Skeptics point out the technology on which the Volt is based – a large lithium-ion battery that is cost-effective and durable enough to withstand a rigorous duty cycle of charging and discharging – has not yet been invented.
Nevertheless, GM recently announced two supplier contracts to develop Li-ion batteries for the Saturn Vue Green Line PHEV, which GM has committed to building, possibly by 2010.
One battery contract is with Saft Advanced Power Solutions LLC, a joint venture between Johnson Controls Inc. and Paris-based Saft Groupe SA; the other is with Michigan-based Cobasys, a JV between Chevron Technology Ventures LLC, a subsidiary of Chevron Corp., and Energy Conversion Devices.
Some experts predict such advanced batteries could be production-ready by 2010 or 2012. Despite the vagaries of the battery technology, GM executives make it clear the Volt is not “just a science project” built for show, and its sophisticated design – based on an upcoming mass-production GM platform – underscores the point.
The Volt’s E-Flex platform is an adapted version of GM’s future Global Compact Vehicle Architecture (Delta) that will underpin the next-generation Chevy Cobalt and HHR.
GM managers say they want to leverage the auto maker’s global manufacturing capability to produce the Volt in several different regions, rather than produce a low-volume niche model solely for the U.S.
The E-Flex architecture “strikes at the heart of some of the paradigms that govern this industry,” Jon Lauckner, GM vice president-global program management, says.
The Volt’s 12-gallon (45L) tank can hold gasoline or biofuels such as E85, a gasoline/ethanol blend. The architecture also is designed to accommodate a fuel cell-powered version of the powertrain.
“If it’s in Europe, it could be biodiesel; if it’s in Brazil, it could be E100 (100% ethanol), Lauckner says. “GM is committed to making this a volume play globally.”
GM engineers say the per-mile cost for electrical power is roughly one third the price of gasoline.
But the innovation does not stop at the Volt’s powertrain. It uses a variety of ingenious materials, technologies and ideas.
-Loren
Jan. 26, 2007
Six months ago, virtually any article focusing on General Motors wasn’t about product; rather, it was all about personality. GM shareholder Kirk Kerkorian (love the alliteration) was pushing GM execs to explore an alliance with Renault/Nissan’s Carlos Ghosn, an initiative Mr. Kerkorian had jump-started on his own. The groundwork was laid, meetings were held and, ultimately, no accord was signed. In sum, a pleasant summer diversion for the automotive media and Wall Street.
Six months later, with both L.A. and – in early January – the Detroit auto shows behind us, we can once again turn our attention to product. General Motors is in the midst of a turnaround, led – we’re happy to note – by a significant recommitment to the design of product. It couldn’t have come at a better time.
Members of the automotive media received a preview of that recommitment in a Los Angeles session conducted by senior members of GM’s design team. Of course we’ve seen ample evidence of an improved portfolio in recent product launches, led – in our admittedly narrow view – by the Corvette C6 exterior, Solstice/Sky sheet metal and the Saturn Aura’s interior upgrades. None of these automotive treatments achieve absolute perfection, but all rekindle memories of the Good Ol’ Days, when GM design influenced the work of other carmakers throughout the world.
From what we saw in Los Angeles, those Good Ol’ Days might be returning. In the past any number of GM’s (generally successful) exterior treatments have cloaked interior themes whose execution is considerably less successful. We ranted for years regarding switchgear whose design was seemingly influenced by Fisher-Price and whose feel was closer to Romper Room than Rodeo Drive.
A look at Cadillac’s Escalade Platinum revealed an attention to detail fully – and finally – appropriate to its elevated window sticker. Within it – and other cabins on display – GM’s design staff has paid particular attention to materials, their texture and craftsmanship. Upholstery benefits from accent stitching, piping, and perforated leather, while GM’s holistic approach to all aspects of the interior (instrumentation, graphics and lighting – to name but a few) creates a far more integrated look.
A similar impression was imparted by the interior buck of GMC’s Acadia. As mentioned in our preview on December 14th, the Acadia is a new crossover sharing its platform with Saturn’s newly-introduced Outlook and Buick’s forthcoming Enclave. While similar in profile and platform, significant effort has gone into interior differentiation; the design and product teams have gone so far as to provide color-keyed instrumentation specific to the brand. In both the GMC and Saturn (which we drove later) the upgrades in quality are dramatically evident. For immediate proof, take a quick gander at today’s Envoy or Vue.
Another bright spot was the interior redo of Cadillac’s SRX. Based on the CTS platform, and available in both rwd and all-wheel drive, the SRX’s rather quiet sheet metal and modest execution have been overshadowed by the bling factor evident in Cadillac’s Escalade. With consumers’ attention returning once again – we hope – to efficiency, the SRX should be getting more of that attention. And prospects should be pleased by mods made to the interior package, with – again – far more attention paid to materials, textures and craftsmanship. In point of fact, with transaction prices well back of window sticker the SRX menu of flexible storage, competent handling and reasonable efficiency should put it on buyers’ short lists if, in fact, they’ve tired of the big-buck fill ups.
In Detroit, which I didn’t attend, Cadillac rolled out the ’08 CTS and all-new Malibu. As profiled by Autoweek in its January 15th issue, the new Cadillac redevelops its ‘new edge’ design theme with a softened – yet no less dynamic – angularity, wider track, better wheel well/tire relationship and more aggressive grille. In short, the exterior seems to flow in a much more unified fashion; today’s CTS always seemed to be more of a collection of disparate pieces, lacking the unity great design themes typically enjoy.
The Malibu, sharing its platform with Saturn’s Aura, represents arguably the most significant leap for the nameplate since its mid-sixties introduction. While the Aura comes with a V6 powertrain – and $20K-plus price point – as standard, Chevrolet will provide consumers with their choice of four or six-cylinder powertrains, as well as a starting point on the friendlier side of $20K. GM, of course, hopes there exists room for both; we don’t see either Chevy or Saturn struggling for prospects. And like Ford’s Fusion, the new Malibu would seem to fill a huge gap in Chevy’s car menu.
The strides GM is making in design were validated by a jury of automotive journalists voting for North American Car & Truck of the Year. On the car side of the ballot Saturn’s Aura took the nod, exceeding in vote total the numbers posted by Honda’s Fit and Toyota’s Camry. And on the truck side, jurors concurred with Motor Trend, designating Chevy’s Silverado their Truck of the Year. In both instances competent platforms and attractive sheet metal are complimented by interior executions – in most trim levels – exceeding expectations.
So for GM CEO Rick Wagoner and crew it’s onward and upward. Mr. Kerkorian has turned his attention elsewhere, Carlos Ghosn is refocused internally and John Mellencamp is forcing many of us into audio-induced rehab. The beat – to cop a line from Sonny Bono – goes on...
Ectoec-4
3.5 Shortstar V-6
3.6 "HF" 252 hp
and a limited edition Redline with a Twin Turbo Ecotec 4 with 300 hp w/wo AWD ?
Rocky
If you'd like I can find out for you.
Rocky
So you support outsourcing ? I guess you want nothing made here in the U.S. ?????? .....Interesting.....If these brightest minds are so great here in the U.S. then why did they design cars like the Aztec. :P
Rocky
Rocky
wrong. do you have any numbers to back that up? Of course you don't. The majority of G6s are sold to retail customers, not rental fleets. As for driving the two, I'm sure the G6's driving experience is at least as engaging as the numb camry. Let's try to stick to the facts.
Yes, the Volt looks promising for a commuter or short range car. Pretty cool indeed! Great miles per dollar. Some areas, like say Idaho have lower electric bills, so they get an added value as they would be commuting to Boise or Nampa. Here in Cali, home of Arnie and his Hummer, the electric prices are a bit higher. But yeah, it looks like this new GM car saves money, is clean, and would work out for some people that drive shorter ranges.
I take it nuclear power plans are in the works too? If other major sources of power to generation become available, it will be an electric everything world. I take it electricity is the charge required to make the hydrogen car work.
-Loren
Nobody is "proving" anything here. Varying opinions, even ones you may disagree with, are going to be posted. That's not an excuse to toss insults or challenges.
Rocky
The Vietnamese dude designed a american icon the current Ford Mustang.
Rocky
So you don't consider getting designs from Europe, Japan and China a form of oursourcing?
Let's get real here, we are living in the age of "global economy". Anyone here thinks that everything should be "made in USA" has stuck his/her head in the sand for the last decade or so.
Last but not least, that "Viatnam dude" looks very Americanized to me and I am pretty sure he got his diploma from an American university. Don't be surprised if you find out one of the design engineers for the next gen fighter has Chinese background...