Well the problem for GM is pretty obvious then, now isn't it? Good for the uncle, as he is now a millionaire and then some. Maybe he can lend some money to GM now. That is really something. He could have worked for five to ten years, did some investing and never have punched a card again. Wow, that is serious money. He is very lucky to have lived in those times and have achieved financial independence, perhaps a couple times over. Twenty years of the golden eggs -- wow, great pay indeed !
It's going to take a federal investment on a grand scale for battery technology to progress at a faster pace. Y'all in California, want cars to get 100 mpg with zero emissions. Whack Jobs like Barbara Boxer, are pushing for CAFE/EPA increases but say little on how to achieve those goals. It's easy to run your mouth with no solution and point the blame at Detroit's Automakers. She however fails to mention the lofty fuel economy standards that Toyota Trucks and SUV's get. I know she is a political spokesmouth for Honda, but not all of Honda's cars are fuel efficient green vehicles because while so many people preach one thing they buy another and that's even the case in California.
That sounds about right 5 to 7.5K miles, like the old manuals use to recommend. I guess some four bangers used the 3k to 6K miles. You have a Northstar, if I recall correctly. With eight cylinders 7,500 seem right. I am thinking 5k to maybe 7k with my six cylinder.
Was it worth it ? He was a workaholic and missed his grand children growing up, missed family holidays because he worked em' ???? I guess if that's the life you want then go get you about 2 more jobs and get after it. He worked 7 days a week 12 hours a day. I'm not jealous of him one bit because only the walls of GM, will know what kind of a person he was. I'm surprised my great aunt tolerated it.
Thanks for posting that article 62vette. I'm still not convinced. Mainly because Chrysler can't get out of it's own way. There recent releases have been disappointing. I don't see how they cna make this work when they weren't successful with a company like mercedes Benz backing them.
It's like they are making promises they know they won't have to live up to.
Yes, Buick does build quality vehicles. Just no the best styling.
Yes lemko, it does surprise me. I will vote for him in the republican primary's here in Texas. I hope he can rise to the top in the republican party and we can have 2 decent choices both which might save GM and U.S. manufactoring.
everyone, including GM managemen, believes they are not out of the woodds. I wouldnt take any bets on GM going bankrupt though. I think most critics agree that is off the table at this point. I have a feeling many people will never come around to admitting that GM is not in danger of collapsing even if they are profitable. If they had $35B in cash would you be satisfied?
I was very serious. As usual, import lovers make a big deal about any feature not found on an American car and marginalize the features missing from the cars they love. I have NEVER in my life had a need for a telescoping steering wheel. BTW, the American cars I would actually consider getting do have a telescoping wheel so the issue is really moot.
BTW, 18" wheels are not too big for the Accord. The Impala, G6, Aura, Malibu, Sebring, Jetta GLI and Avenger all have 18" wheels. Just because the Accord doesnt offer them doesnt mean they are "too big". Thats like saying the Camry has "too much hp" just because it out powers the Accord.
" Maybe this G8 is different, but the GTO didn't break that spell. I can hear someone sayin': "This time it's different. The GTO didn't work because........." "
The GTO was a critical success and a sales failure. Of course it offered only one engine and started at over $30k so it was handicapped from the door. I'm sure you wont ever consider the G8, but I will bet Pontiac can find 40k people to buy the car. When you offer 550i performance for $35k open minded people will pay attention. Others will go around calling G8 owners "losers". I wouldnt mind being one of those losers if my $35k car with 362hp can run with luxury sedans costing $20k more.
Another reason CR is a joke is they assign different reliability ratings to vehicles on the same platform that share all major components as well as two trim levels with different engines. That makes no sense at all. When vehicles have different engines, the rest of the car is the same and there is no reason a V6 model should be more reliable than the V8 model unless the engine itself is the problem.
The real problem I have with CR is that they rate american cars so low that many of them cant be recommended even if they have average reliability. If anyone saw the average score CR gives GM models you will see what I am talking about. The average GM model gets a 57/100 while the average Japanese model scores in the 70s. They said "in general" GM vehicles handle and brake poorly. No data from other sources backs this up. Many feel that GM vehicles are actually mid pack in handling, GM certainly makes more vehicles with sporty intentions than Toyota or Hyundai. Not according t CR of course.
Exactly.....You are a little like me 1487, as you don't need a certain badge to be self confident. The Mercedes Benz C-class reminds me of a car the G8 can go head to head with. The G8, has just as nice of a interior as the Merc IMHO and out powers the C-350 at a fraction of the cost. Sure Mercedes owners will say the C-Class AMG will eat the G8's lunch but we will be able say the same thing about the G8 GXP and possible 502 hp 7.0 V8 GTX model that might make production.
No, there is a deep mindset at all levels to not import vehicles. Even Mexico is a tough one for most to take. Canada is no problem since many actually have worked there and we sell as many as we make there.
The Holden cars are temporary and will be built in Canada.
That type of logic kills me. Whatever the Camry or Accord or other import model doesnt offer isnt important. Whatever they do offer is absolutely critical and is a make or break feature. It's like bluetooth, most import lovers will tell you they dont care about fancy features and gimmicks but once Bluetooth came about they cant buy a car without it. Never mind that its bundled with navigation and thus most import vehicles do not have it, when it comes to trashing domestic vehicles Bluetooth becomes an essential feature.
I'll be the first one to say GM should have telescoping wheels across the board but I will also say its not a critical feature by any means. The camry SE has a telescoping wheel but no auto climate control, no fold down seats, no 18" wheels, no remote start, no trunk hinge struts, etc and yet people will only focus on the fact it has the telescoping wheel. Sorry but cars costing more than $25k need to offer more than resale value and adjustable steering columns.
If current pricing is any indication the C350 is likely to start at nearly $40k which is more than the G8 will cost fully loaded. I can only imagine how much a C63 will cost but you will have to buy one to smoke a G8 GT. To me thats not worth an extra 20 grand. The G8 will appeal to those who care about styling, performance and value. It wont appeal to those who would settle for a base model European car with 16" wheels and leatherette seats just to impress people.
Why are you mad Rocky ? Her article was right on the money. You might not like the messenger but she is right. If the best the Detroit 3 can do is whine, they are finished. I think your pro domestic anti import emotions sometime get the best of you. I know you are a big cheerleader for the Domestics but they really need to get their act together.
I can't stand Consumer Reports. I believe they are a bought and paid for company that takes contributions from the Japanese automobile manufactors and getting the right color of circles depends on how much money you give their blackmail, fraudulent corporation. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see that company investigated by the feds as I think if they turned over enough stones the real truth might surprise many. :mad:
I've never seen the need for telescopic column. My power seats and flexible steering wheel adjustments on GM cars have suited me to a T.
Is that a Model T? :P
Last summer I sat behind the wheel of a Lucerne and played with the tilt (no telescope) wheel. It felt "exactly" like the tilt wheel of my 1965 Pontiac with probably the same amount of detents. I guess there is no point in improving on 41 year old technology at GM. The oldish salesman was confused when I asked him about a tele steering wheel.
My 1984 Honda tilt steering wheel had a much much better feel and adjustment than the 2006 Lucerne.
That is complete BS and you know it. Before you accuse CR of accepting bribes and kickbacks you better have good evidence to back up your claim. Otherwise, their lawyers will come after you for slander and defamation.
I did drive the Accord V-6 and yes it was buzzy. It sounded like it was working very hard in those high RPM's.
Maybe an isolated problem. Honda V6s and Acura V6s are extremeley smooth and quiet throughout the rev band. Have had a number of recent Honda and Acura V6s. Power comes on and very smooth at high RPMs with the VTECs.
Otherwise, their lawyers will come after you for slander and defamation.
Tell em' to bring it !!!!! :mad:
I can go through their test results and find so many flaws that they will want to settle out of court after I'm done with their butts and will get them for distorting the truth !!!!! I'm sure I can get the level-field insitute and other buy american sites to pick-up my lawyer fees :mad:
It could be attributed to it being brand new or perhaps it might of had a little sludge build-up that needed to be worked out ? Oh wait that only happens to yota's :P
>summer I sat behind the wheel of a Lucerne and played with the tilt (no telescope) wheel. It felt "exactly" like the tilt wheel of my 1965 Pontiac
Perhaps you noticed how well engineered and designed the cars are so that the seat adjustments coupled with the original positioning allows competent accomodation of almost any position needed. I do.
Personally I found the Hondas through the years to be the epitome of the minimization theme which was their roots. As long as you're happy with the telescoping tilt wheel in it that's great.. .
I can't say I was around testing the 1965 Pontiac so I'll have to take your word on it and your experience with the Model T.
What, other than contributing more to your local tire store and manufacture, is the benefit of 18" wheels vs. 17" wheels. My car came with 17". If it had 16" or 15" I would have been just as happy. The Accord has 17" alloy wheels, with Michelin tires. Now look up what the Aura XE comes with. As for performance, I think you will find that un-sprung weight of wheels is not a good thing for performance on most cars. I suppose you could make ultra-light wheels and use a very stiff suspension, though I don't think these are IRL cars. Larger wheels can accommodate larger disks for stopping power, but really now, 17" is pretty darn large. Tire costs are rather high on 17" and higher than I would want to pay for 18" -- OK, if I had to part with the $$$, I would. But I see no reason for larger than 16" and my 17" wheel size is almost overkill. So are you waiting for your next GM car to have wagon wheels? Maybe the Camaro will. Bling-bling, a bling!
A car is the sum of its parts, and how those parts work together. There is no parts I would consider necessary missing on my car. Will let ya know if I think of any. I do wish they would not use auto-down for the drivers side window. Loren
Union says Ky. workers leaning toward joining; automaker says employees like current system.
United Auto Workers leaders and Toyota Motor Co. officials expressed opposing views Tuesday about whether the union is making progress in organizing workers at the Japanese automaker's Georgetown, Ky., plant.
The union has seen "increased activity" by Georgetown employees seeking to organize plant workers -- a goal of the UAW since the plant opened 21 years ago -- said UAW president Ron Gettelfinger and Terry Thurman, who heads UAW organizing efforts. The two made the statement Tuesday during a question-and-answer session on the UAW Web site.
Toyota officials said they had seen no sign of increased organizing efforts and denied claims that it intends to lower wages for current workers, which was implied during the UAW online chat.
"We've been on their radar for 21 years and I haven't seen anything new in their progress," said Toyota spokesman Rick Hesterberg from the Georgetown plant. "All evidence points to the fact that our team members like the way things work with management. I've not physically seen anything to suggest the UAW has made progress," Hesterberg said.
The back and forth comes at a tenuous time for both the surging Japanese automaker and the struggling union. Toyota is taking pains to avoid being cast in a bad light at a time when it's gobbling up U.S. market share at the expense of Detroit automakers.
Toyota earned a record $3.6 billion in the third quarter of the Japanese fiscal year and now hopes to exceed its forecast for a full-year profit of $13 billion. Last December, Toyota said it expects to sell 9.34 million vehicles in 2007, which could vault it past General Motors Corp. as the world's No. 1 automaker.
Meanwhile, the UAW continues to lose membership as a result of the massive cutbacks at GM, Ford Motor Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group.
Twenty years ago, UAW membership was at 1.5 million; it now may have fallen to less than 500,000 members after the cutbacks. The UAW intends to focus on organizing workers at the U.S. operations of foreign auto companies and their suppliers, Gettelfinger and Thurman said.
Toyota gave Georgetown workers up to $8,000 bonuses last year, boosting the average pay to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers at Big Three plants, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks.
Gettelfinger and Thurman said the increased organizing activity in Georgetown came after a confidential company report surfaced last month that said Toyota is working to restrain labor costs at its North American factories.
"That could be the window of opportunity the UAW has been waiting for," said Harley Shaiken, a labor expert at the University of California-Berkeley.
Toyota said it doesn't plan significant pay cuts. "We would never do that," Hesterberg said.
He worked and/ or his Dad for GM, so he naturally hears strange things in Hondas. That said, Rocky loved his Acura. Well he did love before he did not like Honda and Acura. Is this one of those Kerry syndrome happenings? But Rocky likes cars, and that's a good thing. We agree the CTS is sorta a fun car. And the previous Seville is a pretty good car - we agree on that one too.
>Besides the inability to meet its goal in getting signatures on pledge cards, the UAW also went through a public relations nightmare when one of its organizers, Stephen P. Vincent, pleaded guilty in federal court for trying to extort $650,000 from Toyota.
In return for money, Vincent, a Toyota employee, had promised to surrender Web site domain names where pro-union material was posted, the prosecution said. Vincent also told Toyota he'd stop union activities and turn over names of employees sympathetic to the union if he received the money, which was never paid. Vincent and his attorney contended Toyota first offered him money for the domain names. Vincent was sentenced to two years. He was released in March 2006 from the Ashland federal prison.
This article discusses the resistance to organizing the Kentucky plant. They benefit from their proximity to Louisille where union workers have good pay rates which keep the Georgetown rates higher than they would have been.
Yes, it is Royal Blue. I have no need of navigation, nor leather, and the moon roof. Moon roof takes away 2.3" of head room, and only serves to give one a sun burn. If you go to Intellichoice, you will see how the SE package is the best deal for total price in and out, as in five years typical costs to own. Makes sense as it has what is needed without those things I would rather not have or be in need of. Best of pricing / value. The only thing I can think of in the GM line is the Aura XE which is below an Accord in power and transmission being a four speed, or the Aura XR which typically are thousands more. It starts out as a fairly equal price, but ALL on the lot were loaded with junk. The net price out the door is not as good too. The Honda seems to be the best for me over all when compared to both domestic and other foreign makes. Actually the Honda is made in Ohio. of parts in USA. Engine is USA. Loren
>Actually the Honda is made in Ohio. of parts in USA.
Maybe 62vette can tell us what fraction of parts are from actual US companies.
It sounds like you shop the same as I do with wanting certain options and not wanting others I don't feel I need. I really dislike the bundling techniques used by certain companies. E.g., I didn't want leather seats, but that's all available when I bought my 03 car.
He worked and/ or his Dad for GM, so he naturally hears strange things in Hondas.
Ahhhhh So Loren, is going to challenge me a bit. I do have a skeleton in my closet and instead of running from it I posted it on my carspace, which btw I tried many of times a while back to get you to join but you neglected your site for some reason. You should put your autoshow pics on their as I did enjoy them. I'd like to see a pick of your new Accord on your carspace.
so he naturally hears strange things in Hondas.
Loren, that was a few years before I bought my TL pal.
That said, Rocky loved his Acura. Well he did love before he did not like Honda and Acura.
I did like my Acura TL, thus I kept my pics up on my carspace even after Honda put the screws to me. I will stand by my words as Acura, has a couple of fine products but their customer service from Corporate is terrible.
Is this one of those Kerry syndrome happenings?
You already know the past on my situation and the lawsuit I won.
But Rocky likes cars, and that's a good thing.
Yes, it would be hard for somebody to match my interest in cars.
We agree the CTS is sorta a fun car.
Okay, and that is the only fun car GM, makes or has ever made in recent times ? :surprise:
And the previous Seville is a pretty good car - we agree on that one too.
The new Seville is no good ? :surprise: Have you test drove a new STS V8 with Magneride to confirm this ?
What a bunch of slime balls..... :mad: It amazes me that story's like this come up so often but many people think Toyota, is such a great corporate citizen and cares so much about it's employees. :sick:
Of course CR doesn't have people monitoring semi=private (can't be traced to you) posts. Were you to say this in a very public setting you might get different results.
On the other hand the charge you make is silly. Show me proof (and not that they like Accords and camrys. Some real, solid proof and then I'll entertain the idea. Until then I won't debate the issue anymore. Anyone else have at it if you;d like.
On the G8 and the C class Mercedes I think you're wring but I like your point. It may very well prove that the G8 turns out better than a C class. I'd like that and if GM is following the continuous improvement of late it's a good shot.
The hole in the argument is that you can win over C class people. If these people wanted the best car for that amount of money I can name half a dozen minimum that would be better than the Mercedes. These people want to say "I own a Mercedes." That's a tough one to crack.
If the G8 lives up to its press clippings it will do well and doesn't have to worry whose market share it is stealing.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
they will have a truck,in 09, from Nissan, in a few years. In 1998, Hyundai sold only 90-91,000 units. For a few years prior, they were selling 100-115,000 units per year. Look at them now. Hyundai still does not have a Truck. They just started to sell minivans last Summer, 2006. Some are still complaining at Hyundai's last of trucks in their line-ups, but they are selling nearly 500,000 units per year. That's not too shabby,and I heard they may have a truck down the road, but not for 2-3 years. VW sold around 40-42,000 units in 1993, IIRC, now they are top 10 every year, for sales , in USA. Do they sell a minivan, or truck(no,IIRC). Subaru took forever to sell 150-200,000 units in one year.(and they do not have a minivan, or a "real" truck). Suzuki's turn now? My only gripe is the low MPG from an I-4,30-31 on their 143 HP,SX4, But... if you look at some newer cars, they aren't doing much better. PT Cruiser gets 26 Hwy, yet they sell 100,000 per year. It's 150HP I-4. It's FWD only,too. Suzuki's are solid as anything else, for longetivity. Problem was NVH, etc... the old vehicles were crude(r) than today's, and the SX4 is on par of many other vehicles today(but less costly, for AWD/FWD vehicle). If they get their MPG up to 34-35 MPG for their I-4s, and the whole line-up on par of the new SX4, I would have them on my top 3-4 companies to check out for a possible purchase. There's a reason the inlaws had 3 Suzuki vehicles( well, 2 were GM Trackers, or rebadged Suzuki's)they had a 90 Tracker, 217K No issues, a 97(still have it at 90K), and the SX4, 5 months old, 13k+ miles... Solid as a rock. I no of No One who had a vehicle for 217,000 miles, w/o anything "extra" being done(outside of normal wear and tear/maintainence)except for the 1990 Suzuki-"Chevy" Tracker. I had a Sentra got 233,000+ miles, but needed new CV Boots early on(too early), and stalled out at 7K miles, left us stranded, due to chain jumped the timing gear. No a guy(inlaw) had a 87 Toyota pickup, until 2000. Needed engine rebored at 153,000 miles, due to "Sludge". Was 1K to fix it up, at local shop, in the mid-90's. he got 278,000 miles, but rust killed the body. The Trackers, No Extras Needed, ever. That impresses me more than a name on a deck lid. take care/not offense.
PS: sx4 sedan, and supposedly a sporty car and sporty sedan will be at the NY autoshow in a few weeks. read(theautochannel.com, IIRC) the SX4 will be about the length of the current Elantra, FWD only. Did not look bad at all. It replaces the Aerio, IIRC.
not being nasty, or attacking here, but if someone wants a minivan... there are others out there who make these( didn't GM announce they were getting our of the Minivan business, and /or Ford, just a month or two ago?).
I dunno. I like cars. Suzuki sells cars( hoping they tweak MPG, ad make their whole line-up as good, NVH, etc., as the SX4). That's all I need, lol. ;-)
Maybe a mild hybrid by 2010 would not hurt? SX4 getting 37-38 MPG would not be too bad, for 17-18K msrp. take care/not offense.
I will never have Bluetooth, unless I am eating blueberries. :shades:
Everyone will have different priorities on their list when looking for cars. Being able to sit and steer in comfort happens to be one which I would say is on many lists. Of course, it is not on everyone's list.
What is meant by the word trashing BTW? I hear this trashing or bashing used a lot. So if something is pointed out as being better in one car, or less than perfect, one is trashing or bashing? See, there is the problem. One confident in their automobile capabilities has no worries of some competitions abilities. Is this some phobia about everyone being out to get GM or domestics, or the UAW? I think not. Why not listen to the consumer, as they are the boss. They will tell you what they like or dislike, then a car can be designed around those needs. And I am very sure, most people are happy enough that some UAW assembled their auto, with a few exceptions. Some may hold some grudge, since a car went bad on them some time who-knows-when. But for the most part, I think few people are looking to get even or get down on some worker because they are Union. No, they are looking for a quality car. So it is best that workers not waste time bash the competitions cars or workers, but rather concentrate on making the best product. GM has some plants producing reliable cars which has been noted by the press. I think workers and GM have received some good press. On the issue of CR, it seems like making product which works well, and is reliable will result in good marks in the magazine. I can see some good marks on say the CTS by GM and other GM cars. If this continues, perhaps people will ignore those reviews which seemly use some wording which appears to show some personal bias. I would not say they are out to get GM -- that would be a stretch. They data is looking good and some of the reviews more favorable these days. I will agree there is some personal bias in all of us. People carry the past with them. You may find Road and Track and Car and Driver see things differently. They may hire different test people, and/or use different test methods. Best that GM can do, it to constantly improve product and relationships with the customers. The rest shall follow. Loren
The Aura XR is kinda fun to drive. I have not driven the new Seville. I did NOT say the new one is bad. I said, the old one, the FWD Seville, which I did drive, was a good car. Would be fun to own a Corvette. Don't have a garage, and the extra money right now. Some day, when I get a house with two or three car garage, and join a car club, I will get a Vette or Stang, or ??? The C5 era Vette is pretty cool. Seating is low and my back is bad, so??? The C4 Vette was darn near impossible to exit, though a two step, as in sit on sill, then out, does work.
No, I do not know of the lawsuit you had. Will ask you about it some day. Loren
Okay fair enough.......The problem Loren, is many people including posters hold a grudge from lets say the 1980's with them 20-25 years later and will not give any credit to the product improvements most of us see today. If people don't like GM, for whatever reason thats fine but the hyperbole that comes a long with those reasons is what starts a resistance. I think quite a few americans get upset when GM, wins a couple of awards from major media outlets and then a certain site will grasp for faults. I assume this is to gain media publicity to sell their tests, advice, findings. The most recent story was over the new Pick-up truck tests and edmunds is the only site I know of that picked a Tundra over the Silverado. The comparo was so biased as the tundra was loaded to the gill while the Silvy and Titan were in stripped trim form. Edmunds, brought up the 4-second cloosed loop system on the 6.0 Chevy as a major sticking point while Motor Trend and other media outlets didn't even mention it. :confuse:
Well a C5 Vette is pretty darn fun as my FIL had one. My MIL got it in the divorce and it sits out at the farm house where we use to live. I told my wife that maybe we should buy it for fun. Maybe she might cut us a deal on it someday? The C4's I agree are hard to enter/exit but man they are fun even though they ride like crappola unless you get the adjustable suspension. I always wanted to own a ZR-1 :shades: I have not driven a Aura, yet but have talked to people that have and some say they might buy a greenline version. My buddy at work use to work at GM, in Ohio back in the early 80's before taking a buy-out and landing a job with the DOE, said he likes those new Saturn VUE's. He's made quite a bit of money in the stock market and we exchange words about cars often. He and I talk about politics and the stock market whenever we get a chance to pass the time. I have thought about buying a RWD 05' Seville STS used as I'm a fan of the current STS. I might look this summer for fire sales in Dallas where dealers are giving mega dollars off STS's as the market determines the MSRP to be about $6-8K to high. I figure if I can save lets say $11-15K off on a buy or put torwards a lease one might work for me. The FWD Seville STS's are indeed good cars and it kinda amazed me with all the cost improvements at GM, the current Seville went up in MSRP like it did. The sales numbers are down as the car as nice as it is does not deserve the MSRP it commands. The STS needs a better interior and the new Ultra V8 engine but should not sell over $60K with AWD. $57K for a RWD 400 hp STS sounds about right and would sell quite well IMHO.
Yeah, you will have to ask me about the lawsuit as I thought we exchanged e-mails about it already a loooong time ago.
Shoot, my girlfriend just had the oil changed on her Buick LaCrosse at the dealer this morning. She saw a Lucerne in the same color (Sapphire Metallic) as her car. She thought it looked really sharp and that I should consider one as my next car. Hey, the Lucerne already is on my car-shopping A-list. It's right behind a new Cadillac DTS.
Twenty years of the golden eggs -- wow, great pay indeed !
How can anyone afford to own a home in CA if your family income is not in the $150k range. Just what he is saying his uncle made. Last time I checked a couple hours ago the average home in San Diego is selling for $600k. Payments on that average home would stress an income under $150k a year.
Hopefully for the non union workers in the Toyota factories their housing cost is not near what it is in many parts of the USA.
The real issue that I see with GM and all of Corporate America is the huge disparity between upper management and the workforce. The average CEO in 1990 made 13 times more than the average worker. In 2000 it was over 500 times more than the workers.
Which is fine. I like the Altima! It has a look. The G8 could be somebody. Is it the next Chrysler 300? Doubt it.
As far as a G8 vs C-Class, since they won't be cross-shopped by any sane person......I'm not a C-Class fan, I'd take the Pontiac, at under $30k, if it had a stick, and free oil changes for life!
Comments
Loren
Rocky
You have a Northstar, if I recall correctly. With eight cylinders 7,500 seem right. I am thinking 5k to maybe 7k with my six cylinder.
Loren
Was it worth it ? He was a workaholic and missed his grand children growing up, missed family holidays because he worked em' ???? I guess if that's the life you want then go get you about 2 more jobs and get after it. He worked 7 days a week 12 hours a day. I'm not jealous of him one bit because only the walls of GM, will know what kind of a person he was. I'm surprised my great aunt tolerated it.
Rocky
It's like they are making promises they know they won't have to live up to.
Yes, Buick does build quality vehicles. Just no the best styling.
Rocky
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070314/OPINION03/703140393
Rocky :mad:
Rocky
BTW, 18" wheels are not too big for the Accord. The Impala, G6, Aura, Malibu, Sebring, Jetta GLI and Avenger all have 18" wheels. Just because the Accord doesnt offer them doesnt mean they are "too big". Thats like saying the Camry has "too much hp" just because it out powers the Accord.
The GTO was a critical success and a sales failure. Of course it offered only one engine and started at over $30k so it was handicapped from the door. I'm sure you wont ever consider the G8, but I will bet Pontiac can find 40k people to buy the car. When you offer 550i performance for $35k open minded people will pay attention. Others will go around calling G8 owners "losers". I wouldnt mind being one of those losers if my $35k car with 362hp can run with luxury sedans costing $20k more.
LOL
Rocky
The real problem I have with CR is that they rate american cars so low that many of them cant be recommended even if they have average reliability. If anyone saw the average score CR gives GM models you will see what I am talking about. The average GM model gets a 57/100 while the average Japanese model scores in the 70s. They said "in general" GM vehicles handle and brake poorly. No data from other sources backs this up. Many feel that GM vehicles are actually mid pack in handling, GM certainly makes more vehicles with sporty intentions than Toyota or Hyundai. Not according t CR of course.
Rocky
The Holden cars are temporary and will be built in Canada.
I'll be the first one to say GM should have telescoping wheels across the board but I will also say its not a critical feature by any means. The camry SE has a telescoping wheel but no auto climate control, no fold down seats, no 18" wheels, no remote start, no trunk hinge struts, etc and yet people will only focus on the fact it has the telescoping wheel. Sorry but cars costing more than $25k need to offer more than resale value and adjustable steering columns.
That is in the eye of the beholder!! Lucerne is sharp. Enclave is gorgeous and LaCrosse is nice but a bit conservative!!
Rocky
Rocky
Is that a Model T? :P
Last summer I sat behind the wheel of a Lucerne and played with the tilt (no telescope) wheel. It felt "exactly" like the tilt wheel of my 1965 Pontiac with probably the same amount of detents. I guess there is no point in improving on 41 year old technology at GM. The oldish salesman was confused when I asked him about a tele steering wheel.
My 1984 Honda tilt steering wheel had a much much better feel and adjustment than the 2006 Lucerne.
Maybe an isolated problem. Honda V6s and Acura V6s are extremeley smooth and quiet throughout the rev band. Have had a number of recent Honda and Acura V6s. Power comes on and very smooth at high RPMs with the VTECs.
Tell em' to bring it !!!!! :mad:
I can go through their test results and find so many flaws that they will want to settle out of court after I'm done with their butts and will get them for distorting the truth !!!!! I'm sure I can get the level-field insitute and other buy american sites to pick-up my lawyer fees :mad:
Rocky
Rocky
The old dinosaur makes a profit.
Rocky
Perhaps you noticed how well engineered and designed the cars are so that the seat adjustments coupled with the original positioning allows competent accomodation of almost any position needed. I do.
Personally I found the Hondas through the years to be the epitome of the minimization theme which was their roots. As long as you're happy with the telescoping tilt wheel in it that's great..
I can't say I was around testing the 1965 Pontiac so I'll have to take your word on it and your experience with the Model T.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A car is the sum of its parts, and how those parts work together. There is no parts I would consider necessary missing on my car. Will let ya know if I think of any. I do wish they would not use auto-down for the drivers side window.
Loren
United Auto Workers leaders and Toyota Motor Co. officials expressed opposing views Tuesday about whether the union is making progress in organizing workers at the Japanese automaker's Georgetown, Ky., plant.
The union has seen "increased activity" by Georgetown employees seeking to organize plant workers -- a goal of the UAW since the plant opened 21 years ago -- said UAW president Ron Gettelfinger and Terry Thurman, who heads UAW organizing efforts. The two made the statement Tuesday during a question-and-answer session on the UAW Web site.
Toyota officials said they had seen no sign of increased organizing efforts and denied claims that it intends to lower wages for current workers, which was implied during the UAW online chat.
"We've been on their radar for 21 years and I haven't seen anything new in their progress," said Toyota spokesman Rick Hesterberg from the Georgetown plant. "All evidence points to the fact that our team members like the way things work with management. I've not physically seen anything to suggest the UAW has made progress," Hesterberg said.
The back and forth comes at a tenuous time for both the surging Japanese automaker and the struggling union. Toyota is taking pains to avoid being cast in a bad light at a time when it's gobbling up U.S. market share at the expense of Detroit automakers.
Toyota earned a record $3.6 billion in the third quarter of the Japanese fiscal year and now hopes to exceed its forecast for a full-year profit of $13 billion. Last December, Toyota said it expects to sell 9.34 million vehicles in 2007, which could vault it past General Motors Corp. as the world's No. 1 automaker.
Meanwhile, the UAW continues to lose membership as a result of the massive cutbacks at GM, Ford Motor Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group.
Twenty years ago, UAW membership was at 1.5 million; it now may have fallen to less than 500,000 members after the cutbacks. The UAW intends to focus on organizing workers at the U.S. operations of foreign auto companies and their suppliers, Gettelfinger and Thurman said.
Toyota gave Georgetown workers up to $8,000 bonuses last year, boosting the average pay to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers at Big Three plants, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks.
Gettelfinger and Thurman said the increased organizing activity in Georgetown came after a confidential company report surfaced last month that said Toyota is working to restrain labor costs at its North American factories.
"That could be the window of opportunity the UAW has been waiting for," said Harley Shaiken, a labor expert at the University of California-Berkeley.
Toyota said it doesn't plan significant pay cuts. "We would never do that," Hesterberg said.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070314/AUTO01/703140417/1148
UAW-Toyota? Now that sounds like a team.....
Rocky
Can we see a pic of this great wonderful domestic slayer of yours? The SE is the mid-level trim, right ? The EX has leather, Navi, right ?
What color did you get ? You got Blue, if my memory is working correctly?
Rocky
And the previous Seville is a pretty good car - we agree on that one too.
Loren
Yeah you wouldn't because you know damn well the UAW, would be building a union hall nearby.
Rocky
In return for money, Vincent, a Toyota employee, had promised to surrender Web site domain names where pro-union material was posted, the prosecution said. Vincent also told Toyota he'd stop union activities and turn over names of employees sympathetic to the union if he received the money, which was never paid. Vincent and his attorney contended Toyota first offered him money for the domain names. Vincent was sentenced to two years. He was released in March 2006 from the Ashland federal prison.
from The Cincinnati Post
This article discusses the resistance to organizing the Kentucky plant. They benefit from their proximity to Louisille where union workers have good pay rates which keep the Georgetown rates higher than they would have been.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Loren
Maybe 62vette can tell us what fraction of parts are from actual US companies.
It sounds like you shop the same as I do with wanting certain options and not wanting others I don't feel I need. I really dislike the bundling techniques used by certain companies. E.g., I didn't want leather seats, but that's all available when I bought my 03 car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ahhhhh So Loren, is going to challenge me a bit. I do have a skeleton in my closet and instead of running from it I posted it on my carspace, which btw I tried many of times a while back to get you to join but you neglected your site for some reason. You should put your autoshow pics on their as I did enjoy them. I'd like to see a pick of your new Accord on your carspace.
so he naturally hears strange things in Hondas.
Loren, that was a few years before I bought my TL pal.
That said, Rocky loved his Acura. Well he did love before he did not like Honda and Acura.
I did like my Acura TL, thus I kept my pics up on my carspace even after Honda put the screws to me. I will stand by my words as Acura, has a couple of fine products but their customer service from Corporate is terrible.
Is this one of those Kerry syndrome happenings?
You already know the past on my situation and the lawsuit I won.
But Rocky likes cars, and that's a good thing.
Yes, it would be hard for somebody to match my interest in cars.
We agree the CTS is sorta a fun car.
Okay, and that is the only fun car GM, makes or has ever made in recent times ? :surprise:
And the previous Seville is a pretty good car - we agree on that one too.
The new Seville is no good ? :surprise: Have you test drove a new STS V8 with Magneride to confirm this ?
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
On the other hand the charge you make is silly. Show me proof (and not that they like Accords and camrys. Some real, solid proof and then I'll entertain the idea. Until then I won't debate the issue anymore. Anyone else have at it if you;d like.
On the G8 and the C class Mercedes I think you're wring but I like your point. It may very well prove that the G8 turns out better than a C class. I'd like that and if GM is following the continuous improvement of late it's a good shot.
The hole in the argument is that you can win over C class people. If these people wanted the best car for that amount of money I can name half a dozen minimum that would be better than the Mercedes. These people want to say "I own a Mercedes." That's a tough one to crack.
If the G8 lives up to its press clippings it will do well and doesn't have to worry whose market share it is stealing.
In 1998, Hyundai sold only 90-91,000 units. For a few years prior, they were selling 100-115,000 units per year. Look at them now. Hyundai still does not have a Truck. They just started to sell minivans last Summer, 2006.
Some are still complaining at Hyundai's last of trucks in their line-ups, but they are selling nearly 500,000 units per year.
That's not too shabby,and I heard they may have a truck down the road, but not for 2-3 years.
VW sold around 40-42,000 units in 1993, IIRC, now they are top 10 every year, for sales , in USA. Do they sell a minivan, or truck(no,IIRC).
Subaru took forever to sell 150-200,000 units in one year.(and they do not have a minivan, or a "real" truck).
Suzuki's turn now?
My only gripe is the low MPG from an I-4,30-31 on their 143 HP,SX4, But... if you look at some newer cars, they aren't doing much better.
PT Cruiser gets 26 Hwy, yet they sell 100,000 per year.
It's 150HP I-4.
It's FWD only,too.
Suzuki's are solid as anything else, for longetivity.
Problem was NVH, etc... the old vehicles were crude(r) than today's, and the SX4 is on par of many other vehicles today(but less costly, for AWD/FWD vehicle).
If they get their MPG up to 34-35 MPG for their I-4s, and the whole line-up on par of the new SX4, I would have them on my top 3-4 companies to check out for a possible purchase.
There's a reason the inlaws had 3 Suzuki vehicles( well, 2 were GM Trackers, or rebadged Suzuki's)they had a 90 Tracker, 217K No issues, a 97(still have it at 90K), and the SX4, 5 months old, 13k+ miles...
Solid as a rock.
I no of No One who had a vehicle for 217,000 miles, w/o anything "extra" being done(outside of normal wear and tear/maintainence)except for the 1990 Suzuki-"Chevy" Tracker.
I had a Sentra got 233,000+ miles, but needed new CV Boots early on(too early), and stalled out at 7K miles, left us stranded, due to chain jumped the timing gear.
No a guy(inlaw) had a 87 Toyota pickup, until 2000. Needed engine rebored at 153,000 miles, due to "Sludge". Was 1K to fix it up, at local shop, in the mid-90's.
he got 278,000 miles, but rust killed the body.
The Trackers, No Extras Needed, ever.
That impresses me more than a name on a deck lid.
take care/not offense.
PS: sx4 sedan, and supposedly a sporty car and sporty sedan will be at the NY autoshow in a few weeks.
read(theautochannel.com, IIRC) the SX4 will be about the length of the current Elantra, FWD only.
Did not look bad at all.
It replaces the Aerio, IIRC.
I dunno.
I like cars. Suzuki sells cars( hoping they tweak MPG, ad make their whole line-up as good, NVH, etc., as the SX4).
That's all I need, lol. ;-)
Maybe a mild hybrid by 2010 would not hurt? SX4 getting 37-38 MPG would not be too bad, for 17-18K msrp.
take care/not offense.
Everyone will have different priorities on their list when looking for cars. Being able to sit and steer in comfort happens to be one which I would say is on many lists. Of course, it is not on everyone's list.
What is meant by the word trashing BTW? I hear this trashing or bashing used a lot. So if something is pointed out as being better in one car, or less than perfect, one is trashing or bashing? See, there is the problem. One confident in their automobile capabilities has no worries of some competitions abilities. Is this some phobia about everyone being out to get GM or domestics, or the UAW? I think not. Why not listen to the consumer, as they are the boss. They will tell you what they like or dislike, then a car can be designed around those needs. And I am very sure, most people are happy enough that some UAW assembled their auto, with a few exceptions. Some may hold some grudge, since a car went bad on them some time who-knows-when. But for the most part, I think few people are looking to get even or get down on some worker because they are Union. No, they are looking for a quality car. So it is best that workers not waste time bash the competitions cars or workers, but rather concentrate on making the best product. GM has some plants producing reliable cars which has been noted by the press. I think workers and GM have received some good press. On the issue of CR, it seems like making product which works well, and is reliable will result in good marks in the magazine. I can see some good marks on say the CTS by GM and other GM cars. If this continues, perhaps people will ignore those reviews which seemly use some wording which appears to show some personal bias. I would not say they are out to get GM -- that would be a stretch. They data is looking good and some of the reviews more favorable these days. I will agree there is some personal bias in all of us. People carry the past with them. You may find Road and Track and Car and Driver see things differently. They may hire different test people, and/or use different test methods. Best that GM can do, it to constantly improve product and relationships with the customers. The rest shall follow.
Loren
No, I do not know of the lawsuit you had. Will ask you about it some day.
Loren
Rocky
a ZR-1 :shades: I have not driven a Aura, yet but have talked to people that have and some say they might buy a greenline version. My buddy at work use to work at GM, in Ohio back in the early 80's before taking a buy-out and landing a job with the DOE, said he likes those new Saturn VUE's. He's made quite a bit of money in the stock market and we exchange words about cars often. He and I talk about politics and the stock market whenever we get a chance to pass the time. I have thought about buying a RWD 05' Seville STS used as I'm a fan of the current STS. I might look this summer for fire sales in Dallas where dealers are giving mega dollars off STS's as the market determines the MSRP to be about $6-8K to high. I figure if I can save lets say $11-15K off on a buy or put torwards a lease one might work for me. The FWD Seville STS's are indeed good cars and it kinda amazed me with all the cost improvements at GM, the current Seville went up in MSRP like it did. The sales numbers are down as the car as nice as it is does not deserve the MSRP it commands. The STS needs a better interior and the new Ultra V8 engine but should not sell over $60K with AWD. $57K for a RWD 400 hp STS sounds about right and would sell quite well IMHO.
Yeah, you will have to ask me about the lawsuit as I thought we exchanged e-mails about it already a loooong time ago.
Rocky
How can anyone afford to own a home in CA if your family income is not in the $150k range. Just what he is saying his uncle made. Last time I checked a couple hours ago the average home in San Diego is selling for $600k. Payments on that average home would stress an income under $150k a year.
Hopefully for the non union workers in the Toyota factories their housing cost is not near what it is in many parts of the USA.
The real issue that I see with GM and all of Corporate America is the huge disparity between upper management and the workforce. The average CEO in 1990 made 13 times more than the average worker. In 2000 it was over 500 times more than the workers.
As far as a G8 vs C-Class, since they won't be cross-shopped by any sane person......I'm not a C-Class fan, I'd take the Pontiac, at under $30k, if it had a stick, and free oil changes for life!
DrFill