Toyota would have to give equal wages and benefits that GM employees have. My guess is Toyota would try to shut down the plant to avoid an election. Can Toyota maintain their customer base with a major smear in the press and on the news. They have had a cheap ride on employee costs up till now. I hope to see the employees vote to go union. I imagine Toyota will use every legal diversion tactic to avoid the UAW. Any Toyota workers care to chime in on the subject?
I never said $26b was the "right" amount of cash but I did say its enough to make bankruptcy talk pretty foolish at this point. On top of that they increased their cash balance in the last qtr which has to be a good thing. How much does Toyota have on hand?
No, $26 billion in cash-on-hand is NOT enough to completely extinguish talk of bankruptcy. For GM, is it simply not that much money, especially if the country slips into a recession or the deflation of the housing bubble starts to hurt new vehicle sales (people can't take equity out of their home to finance the purchase of new vehicles).
Any positive movement in the total level of GM's cash balance, however, is a good sign. But we need more than good results for one quarter to prove that GM is out of the woods.
If you have a minor front end fender bender and the airbag deploys, you'll wish you didn't have a seamless airbag design on the IP. Big, big bucks to replace the entire IP, rather than just an airbag cover.
"Toyota would have to give equal wages and benefits that GM employees have."
No they wouldn't. Toyota would be under no obligation whatsoever to match those deals. They negotiate from a blank piece of paper. The days of the UAW picking one employer to strike, bargain a contract and then have the others settle for the same thing ended when Chrysler had to get the Feds to guarantee their loans. At the time there opened up a $4 an hour wage gap.
Toyota does not have to do anything other than bargain a contract. I would assume they would endure a long strike rather than eat a lousy contract. UAW members are hardly their base of buyers.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I agree that they would not have to match current contracts. I am saying they would get a lot of bad press from the media. It could hurt them in sales. Not just UAW member sales. I would hope a UAW member would not buy a scab built vehicle. I am sure they do. It makes no sense to me as a retired Union member. I am not particularly fond of the UAW but they do represent over half a million Union workers in the USA. If Union members do not buy Union made goods when available, their days are numbered.
Well you might get a good deal on resale in Southern California, but in many other parts of the U.S. you would of had to discount your car several more thousands to get it to sell in a timely manner. I'm happy for you and many people in California believe in the CR bible thus they buy their used cars based on the written lines of that yellow publication.
I agree pal if their isn't a speaker their I'd prefer carpet as lower door material as it is so easy to maintain. IMHO, it's better than plastic which often scuffs easy.
Do you really think any of those oil gauges are telling you enough about the life of your oil to go some 10,000 miles between changes?
Yes because it calculates your rpm's and takes away from a bank of RPMSand I've been told by GM engineers it's pretty damn accurate. Some systems have oil filters that clean the oil to extend the life of oil. If you live in a dusty climate or live on a dirt road those factors should play into how often you should change your oil but for your average suburban slob the oil life counters are a good way to judge when you should change your oil.
The findings are flawed because 90% of CR's religious right are import owners and will tell CR their cars are the best no matter how many problems they encounter. They want to feel they belong with the elites of car owners. I've witnessed this first hand with friends who are religious CR bible thumpers. I ask them aren't you going to report your Accords transmission problem ? "When I get time" I'm like yeah whatever.-grin
So Toyota is hiring workers at gun point? I think not. I am 100% sure they are getting a fair wage. Let's hope for GM sake and those which make a living selling to the work force of GM, that the UAW works with GM to keep the company running. News of profits by GM is all well and good, but let's think ahead as reality sets in. Things are still not so rosy, or quite what they seem. Everyone working together to keep things afloat is required. Everyone remembering just whom they work for, is also important. There is but one ultimate boss - the customer.
Pontiac is goint to sticker a car at a mid 30K price range? In my opinion the Pontiac nameplate today does not have the name to sell a mid 30K priced car.
Well we will see next year if your prediction is true. Last time I checked the Grand Prix sold quite well and the upper trim models could get in the mid $30K range. The Bonneville sold quite well for many years and it could get in the high $30K range. Perhaps GM, will use the Holden Statesman for a Pontiac G10/Bonneville in the near future and I predict just like the G8 it would/will sell very well. The Pontiac brand is being reinvented with RWD entry-lux interiors and gadgets
Lets see it would level the playing field as Toyota, wouldn't be able to just fire it's older workers to avoid paying retirement benefits as a starter......
It would be good for the workers. I care about american workers and want them to get a fair slice of the pie. Toyota, would be nothing without their hard working grunts making sure Toyota, produces a quality product out the door. We all agree Toyota, makes some of the nicer vehicles that are engineered to be good automobiles but the employees do make sure those cars are built to spec and do so with the machinery and material given to them.
I do hope this happens and then just maybe Toyota's will be a lil' more merican to me .......
0-60 on the Accord SEV6 with auto, is 6.6 seconds. Plenty fast. I don't plan on driving Mazda Raceway-Laguna Seca any time soon, so I am pretty well covered. Can't imagine too many desirable cars which are faster which sell below $22K. -Loren
Explain how it is better for workers? I assume that it will be better for the customer, while keeping Toyota profitable and able to sell quality goods, and thus good for the workers. That's how it should work for a continuing effort. Loren
At the time there opened up a $4 an hour wage gap.
That gap according to the Chrysler, Ford, GM, contracts has been closed for quite a long time. The major difference was in the 1990's when Chrysler was paying their union employees $10K bonuses and Ford had a few years of big bonuses. GM, never paid any substantial bonuses to their union employees in the 90's and yes the GM-UAW workers were upset and jealous.
Toyota does not have to do anything other than bargain a contract. I would assume they would endure a long strike rather than eat a lousy contract. UAW members are hardly their base of buyers.
They would get a Big 3 like contract as I see no ther reason why they wouldn't ? Their workers make about $3.00 an hour more than big 3 workers but I believe they don't have the 1 1/2 over 8 hrs. If Toyota, unionized and built union made Lexus and Toyota products here in the states you would not see the resistance from people like me. I would feel okay with Toyota, being a american like company but this final step a long with more investment in my country is what it will take for me to add Toyota to the big 3. They could become a new member called the Big 4 Now that would be something special
over the last 30 years, that I would pay NEAR $30k for. A Bonneville or Grand Prix? LOL! That's good stuff! When's the last time you saw a SSEi you'd pay $30k for? When have you seen an SSEi? Grand Prix GTP interior makes the CTS' cabin look like a Lexus.
Maybe this G8 is different, but the GTO didn't break that spell. I can hear someone sayin': "This time it's different. The GTO didn't work because........."
What part of reality don't you understand here? Seems like time and time again proven data from all sources indicate that the Japan owned products have been, on the average, better. This is like debating if the earth is round. Rather than trying to ignore the data, better time would be spent on exceeding the customers expectations on domestic products. Build a better car, and they will come.
Sludge problems on a Toyota, or transmission problems in 2003 on an Accord have no effect whatsoever on making a GM product better and thus more desirable to the customer. And it certainly does not mean that all the Japan cars are bad just because they have a problem on a model or two, and some years apart. We are talking millions of cars here. On the average, over the last decades, they won. Sorry, but those are the facts. Denying the facts won't help with the selling of one non-Toyota car. GM has some cars which I can see has having some draw for the customer - this is a good thing. Build them and they will come. But they will only come after they are sure that the car is what it appears to be. Thus a bit of a problem. Those bad days catch up to you and are so hard to put behind. With Hyundai, they went the warranty period way, just as Chrysler did, and now to a degree GM. Not quite as good as Hyundai, but a step forward. And this is another good thing. Desirable car / good warranty = steps forward. The customer is boss -- always in mind.
Anytime an airbag goes off you are replacing the IP. The bag is like a bomb. I have seen them set off in tests and the hardware holding the bag is bent out of usable shape. One was set off in the parking lot to display it's severity and it flew up in the air about 40'.
And the airbag should not have gone off if the occupant did not hit the bag.
"If Union members do not buy Union made goods when available, their days are numbered."
Yep. Actually after reading your follow up post I pretty much agree.
Toyota is not firing older workers. They have a pension plan. They have health benefits. They make more money. Now, I'm fine with unions but don't see right away why there would be a big demand for one at that plant.
In many ways it would be a good thing for some unionized Japanese make plants here. It would likely bring a dose of reality to both Toyota and GM.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Well Loren, it's better for the workers in the terms of pay, benefits, retirement packages. it's better for the customer as they get to have a qualified, experienced, proud workers build Toyota products. The UAW, will fight on Toyota's behalf when it comes to lobbying congress for R&D investments so union workers have more product to build. This is what is happening as we speak with alternative energy. The unions still are a powerful lobbying group in this country and can be useful when teaming up with automakers.
So CA is the only state/area that believes in the CR bible of truth?
Well that is pretty much what I'm saying !!!! That part of the U.S. is like another country or planet. This is coming from somebody who was born there. :surprise:
Loren, Who's won ???? Last time I checked GM's Chevrolet brand out sold all of Toyota, here in the U.S. :P
GM, sells more cars here in the U.S. than Toyota, Honda, Nissan combined :P
So who's won ???? GM still is #1 here in the U.S. and in the world. :P
FYI- They do make better cars and trucks right now than Toyota. GM, backs their cars with the best warranty in the auto-industry and as we now know they are making a profit and that profit will grow regardless of what CR tells ya'll in California. :P
Oops, that was 2001 and it is a black dot. I see the van had years of transmission problems, as noted in Consumer Reports mag. of 2006. You know, the magazine that so many GM people say is biased. That data indicates some problem years for Honda. Yeap, there is no perfect world. Anyway, Accord had problems in 2003 and in 2001.
The Chrysler group is targeting Canada and Mexico as initial markets for a Chinese-made small car produced by partner Chery Automobile Co, DaimlerChrysler CEO Dieter Zetsche was quoted as saying.
"In a first step we are focusing on an existing Chery product only for Canada and Mexico," German magazine Auto Motor und Sport quoted Zetsche as saying.
"In a second step we want to bring out a car defined by Chrysler," he added in an interview published today.
The board of DaimlerChrysler last month approved an alliance between the Chrysler group and Chery which will develop and produce small cars that DaimlerChrysler cannot build alone at competitive prices. Chinese government approval is pending.
The 25-year accord lets the Chrysler group pick any actual or planned Chery model in the small to compact car segments to be sold in North America or Europe under a Chrysler group brand such as Dodge.
It also lets Chrysler give Chery blueprints for cars it wants to be built in China.
Chinese cars, ones designed with the US OEM's (BUICK's) have as good a quality as the ones built here. (Before you say anything be sure you know how JD Power rates Buick and also CR for that matter)
GM has lots of Engineers helping them with their development.
If GM could get over their "do not import" issue they could really bring in some nice inexpensive small cars. This may start to change since GM is now importing Opels as Saturns, Holdens as Pontiacs and Daewoos as Chevys.
What's even cooler is that the car has two buttons marked "1" and "2" - to allow settings for yourself and another person. My girlfriend and I are extreme opposites size-wise. She's very petite and has the seat almost against the wheel while I'm rather tall and stocky and set the seat back quite a bit.
GM, backs their cars with the best warranty in the auto-industry
Except for all the Korean makes. But who's counting them anyway?
Regardless, I'd say Acura's warranty is far superior to GM's due to the bumper to bumper portion of the warranty; which really is the most important part.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Now, I'm fine with unions but don't see right away why there would be a big demand for one at that plant.
Get on the net and you can find story's of workers at that plant as to why many workers are asking for the UAW. Just because their is a pension, health benefits, etc, doesn't mean that 5-10 years down the road that Toyota can't eliminate those obligations or cut off funding. Their is no recourse for the workers either as they never signed or retired under a contract.
Except for all the Korean makes. But who's counting them anyway?
Well their is a flaw in their warranty as it's non-transferrable to the next owner. :P
Regardless, I'd say Acura's warranty is far superior to GM's due to the bumper to bumper portion of the warranty; which really is the most important part.
Oh yeah, any luxury brand has the same 4yr. 50K warranty as Acura. Lemme see Buick, Cadillac, Saab, has it. Oh yeah they also give you a 5 yr. 100K powertrain warranty also standard :P hahahahahahaha !!!!!!!
Lexus, Lincoln, Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Land Rover, etc, etc also give you a 4 yr. 50K bumper to bumper warranty also.
"Well Loren, it's better for the workers in the terms of pay, benefits, retirement packages. it's better for the customer as they get to have a qualified, experienced, proud workers build Toyota products."
Only if Toyota workers want to negotiate lower wages for themselves. They have qualified, experienced workers building a good product. Let them unionize if they want. I'll be surprised if it happens.
Meanwhile, I tried using the Edmunds used cr prices I pried a generic 2003 AccordV6 EX with 80 K in New York, Houston, San Antonio and Los Angeles. The price doesn't budge more than 50.
I am sure Edmunds is in cahoots with CR....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
If you had a personal debt to equity of say 11:1 and did not work, as in negative or zero income for say a couple to three years, what would happen? If you had an income of $46K per year, could you afford a $500K home? What if you had say $46K in the bank, but owed some $500K on a home, but were in the process of losing money one year, then making say $30K per year the next? Would the bank not soon own your home?
Only if Toyota workers want to negotiate lower wages for themselves. They have qualified, experienced workers building a good product. Let them unionize if they want. I'll be surprised if it happens.
Lower wages ? huh ? The UAW workers make a helluva alot more salary per year than Toyota workers. If you work a little over time at 1 1/2X over 8hrs or work a Sunday at Double Time or a holiday at Triple Time the UAW workers blow away what a Toyota worker makes a year. My Uncle who was in Tool and Die made $150,000 at GM, before he retired because he worked so much darn over time. He made six digit incomes for the last 20 years at GM, but he lived their also.
Recent auto shows and new car introductions are convincing me that GM is now the design leader.
Chrysler held that role for most of the 1990s, consistently delivering show cars to the show room. Back then GM show cars never translated into road cars. Now? Chrysler has stumbled recently. The 300 is great, but subsequent releases are far from design leaders and are even a bit clunky. The connection between show and sell is eroding for Chrysler as well. The beautifully conceived passenger-focused pickup Dodge design study is still on the shelf. Honda delivered an ugly version of the same concept with the Ridgeline. Dodge should have been first to market with a design leader.
By contrast, GM appears to be hitting on all cylinders. Its show cars are stunning and closely related production cars are appearing within months of the show car. (I still wish Saturn was getting a 3-Door Vue like the PreVue show car, but with the added bonus of the Astra, I won't complain.)
This isn't an original observation but I thought it was worth discussing. Why do some companies do a better job hitting the emotional button with stirring design? Why do some companies seem clueless or at best safe? Why do some shops suddenly catch fire? Or go cold? Who else is doing it well right now? How important is attractive design to consumers?
Or is it all resale value and reliability? (I heard a quote about the current Chevy Malibu, something to the effect, "We thought the mid-size sedan market wanted boring. We found out only Toyota can get by with a boring design." Paraphrasing, but you get the idea.)
For me Toyota is not a design leader. Engineering and manufacturing are great, but design? Not so much. What Toyota will do is experiment with different niche vehicles until a niche catches fire. Toyota is always well positioned for market moves. Rarely does Toyota have the best looking vehicle in a market segment.
Hyundai is a mover in design but starting from far back in the pack. Earlier Hyundais were bad. Much of their new work is derivative but very attractive. Often a better copy than the original.
BMW measured by influence is clearly a leader. That Bangle Bump on the trunk? Almost mandatory in an up-market sedan these days.
Actually, one of the things that impresses me about GM with recent work like the new Cadillac CTS is the car looks great without copying others.
Similarly, the 2006-07 Impala is a sales winner. I believe it is because the styling refresh for 2006 is simple, clean and elegant, inside and out. It looks American and athletic. (I know the chassis underneath is not cutting-edge, but it does deliver good value and a nice balance of features for a lot of consumers.)
I'd really like to hear what others think. What about GM design? Whose designs do you like recently? Who is stumbling? Does it matter?
You want taxpayers to pay for R&D work? Hummmm? How about making GM then a government owned company. That should work about as well in building of cars as say your latest slick car from Russia. I think Toyota research on hybrids went well. There are ups and downs, but those costs are part of development of product in a free industrial world economy.
If you had a personal debt to equity of say 11:1 and did not work, as in negative or zero income for say a couple to three years, what would happen? If you had an income of $46K per year, could you afford a $500K home? What if you had say $46K in the bank, but owed some $500K on a home, but were in the process of losing money one year, then making say $30K per year the next? Would the bank not soon own your home?
I'm not familiar with being that far in debt. I know people in Cali own McMansions that cost a cool million or so for a 3 bedroom home and signed their future grandchild's name to the debt. I do watch Flip that House on TLC and am blown away at what peple pay to live in Cali.
I'm not sure what your getting at ? Are you saying GM, doesn't make enough money to pay its debts ? And if so why are they still in business ? I also would like to know what this has to do with anything ? GM, has aprrox. $26 Billion in the bank. Well that's what is being reported as I suspect their is more hidden in over sea's accounts like Delphi, has done.
Comments
Any positive movement in the total level of GM's cash balance, however, is a good sign. But we need more than good results for one quarter to prove that GM is out of the woods.
I agree, though, that GM's managed to right the ship. If they continue in teh direction they are going they'll be fine.
No they wouldn't. Toyota would be under no obligation whatsoever to match those deals. They negotiate from a blank piece of paper. The days of the UAW picking one employer to strike, bargain a contract and then have the others settle for the same thing ended when Chrysler had to get the Feds to guarantee their loans. At the time there opened up a $4 an hour wage gap.
Toyota does not have to do anything other than bargain a contract. I would assume they would endure a long strike rather than eat a lousy contract. UAW members are hardly their base of buyers.
Rocky
I agree pal if their isn't a speaker their I'd prefer carpet as lower door material as it is so easy to maintain. IMHO, it's better than plastic which often scuffs easy.
Rocky
Yes because it calculates your rpm's and takes away from a bank of RPMSand I've been told by GM engineers it's pretty damn accurate. Some systems have oil filters that clean the oil to extend the life of oil. If you live in a dusty climate or live on a dirt road those factors should play into how often you should change your oil but for your average suburban slob the oil life counters are a good way to judge when you should change your oil.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Best wishes for both Toyota and GM workers.
Loren
Rocky
Well we will see next year if your prediction is true. Last time I checked the Grand Prix sold quite well and the upper trim models could get in the mid $30K range.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
I do hope this happens and then just maybe Toyota's will be a lil' more merican to me
Rocky
-Loren
Loren
That gap according to the Chrysler, Ford, GM, contracts has been closed for quite a long time. The major difference was in the 1990's when Chrysler was paying their union employees $10K bonuses and Ford had a few years of big bonuses. GM, never paid any substantial bonuses to their union employees in the 90's and yes the GM-UAW workers were upset and jealous.
Toyota does not have to do anything other than bargain a contract. I would assume they would endure a long strike rather than eat a lousy contract. UAW members are hardly their base of buyers.
They would get a Big 3 like contract as I see no ther reason why they wouldn't ? Their workers make about $3.00 an hour more than big 3 workers but I believe they don't have the 1 1/2 over 8 hrs. If Toyota, unionized and built union made Lexus and Toyota products here in the states you would not see the resistance from people like me. I would feel okay with Toyota, being a american like company but this final step a long with more investment in my country is what it will take for me to add Toyota to the big 3. They could become a new member called the Big 4
Rocky
Maybe this G8 is different, but the GTO didn't break that spell. I can hear someone sayin': "This time it's different. The GTO didn't work because........."
Excuses are for losers. So are $30k+ Pontiacs.
DrFill
Sludge problems on a Toyota, or transmission problems in 2003 on an Accord have no effect whatsoever on making a GM product better and thus more desirable to the customer. And it certainly does not mean that all the Japan cars are bad just because they have a problem on a model or two, and some years apart. We are talking millions of cars here. On the average, over the last decades, they won. Sorry, but those are the facts. Denying the facts won't help with the selling of one non-Toyota car. GM has some cars which I can see has having some draw for the customer - this is a good thing. Build them and they will come. But they will only come after they are sure that the car is what it appears to be. Thus a bit of a problem. Those bad days catch up to you and are so hard to put behind. With Hyundai, they went the warranty period way, just as Chrysler did, and now to a degree GM. Not quite as good as Hyundai, but a step forward. And this is another good thing. Desirable car / good warranty = steps forward. The customer is boss -- always in mind.
Loren
And the airbag should not have gone off if the occupant did not hit the bag.
Yep. Actually after reading your follow up post I pretty much agree.
Toyota is not firing older workers. They have a pension plan. They have health benefits. They make more money. Now, I'm fine with unions but don't see right away why there would be a big demand for one at that plant.
In many ways it would be a good thing for some unionized Japanese make plants here. It would likely bring a dose of reality to both Toyota and GM.
Well Loren, it's better for the workers in the terms of pay, benefits, retirement packages. it's better for the customer as they get to have a qualified, experienced, proud workers build Toyota products. The UAW, will fight on Toyota's behalf when it comes to lobbying congress for R&D investments so union workers have more product to build. This is what is happening as we speak with alternative energy. The unions still are a powerful lobbying group in this country and can be useful when teaming up with automakers.
Rocky
does a lot more than that. It also uses the oil temperature, ambient temp, gas pedal angle and a host of other features to calculate oil life.
What it does not take into account is dusty conditions or a worn out engine that allows combustion bypass.
Well that is pretty much what I'm saying !!!! That part of the U.S. is like another country or planet. This is coming from somebody who was born there. :surprise:
Rocky
GM, sells more cars here in the U.S. than Toyota, Honda, Nissan combined :P
So who's won ???? GM still is #1 here in the U.S. and in the world. :P
FYI- They do make better cars and trucks right now than Toyota. GM, backs their cars with the best warranty in the auto-industry and as we now know they are making a profit and that profit will grow regardless of what CR tells ya'll in California. :P
Rocky
You know, the magazine that so many GM people say is biased. That
data indicates some problem years for Honda. Yeap, there is no perfect
world. Anyway, Accord had problems in 2003 and in 2001.
loren
The Chrysler group is targeting Canada and Mexico as initial markets for a Chinese-made small car produced by partner Chery Automobile Co, DaimlerChrysler CEO Dieter Zetsche was quoted as saying.
"In a first step we are focusing on an existing Chery product only for Canada and Mexico," German magazine Auto Motor und Sport quoted Zetsche as saying.
"In a second step we want to bring out a car defined by Chrysler," he added in an interview published today.
The board of DaimlerChrysler last month approved an alliance between the Chrysler group and Chery which will develop and produce small cars that DaimlerChrysler cannot build alone at competitive prices. Chinese government approval is pending.
The 25-year accord lets the Chrysler group pick any actual or planned Chery model in the small to compact car segments to be sold in North America or Europe under a Chrysler group brand such as Dodge.
It also lets Chrysler give Chery blueprints for cars it wants to be built in China.
Chinese cars, ones designed with the US OEM's (BUICK's) have as good a quality as the ones built here. (Before you say anything be sure you know how JD Power rates Buick and also CR for that matter)
GM has lots of Engineers helping them with their development.
If GM could get over their "do not import" issue they could really bring in some nice inexpensive small cars. This may start to change since GM is now importing Opels as Saturns, Holdens as Pontiacs and Daewoos as Chevys.
Rocky
Except for all the Korean makes. But who's counting them anyway?
Regardless, I'd say Acura's warranty is far superior to GM's due to the bumper to bumper portion of the warranty; which really is the most important part.
Get on the net and you can find story's of workers at that plant as to why many workers are asking for the UAW. Just because their is a pension, health benefits, etc, doesn't mean that 5-10 years down the road that Toyota can't eliminate those obligations or cut off funding. Their is no recourse for the workers either as they never signed or retired under a contract.
Rocky
Well their is a flaw in their warranty as it's non-transferrable to the next owner. :P
Regardless, I'd say Acura's warranty is far superior to GM's due to the bumper to bumper portion of the warranty; which really is the most important part.
Oh yeah, any luxury brand has the same 4yr. 50K warranty as Acura. Lemme see Buick, Cadillac, Saab, has it. Oh yeah they also give you a 5 yr. 100K powertrain warranty also standard :P hahahahahahaha !!!!!!!
Lexus, Lincoln, Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Land Rover, etc, etc also give you a 4 yr. 50K bumper to bumper warranty also.
Rocky
Only if Toyota workers want to negotiate lower wages for themselves. They have qualified, experienced workers building a good product. Let them unionize if they want. I'll be surprised if it happens.
Meanwhile, I tried using the Edmunds used cr prices I pried a generic 2003 AccordV6 EX with 80 K in New York, Houston, San Antonio and Los Angeles. The price doesn't budge more than 50.
I am sure Edmunds is in cahoots with CR....
If you had an income of $46K per year, could you afford a $500K home? What if you had say $46K in the bank, but owed some $500K on a home, but were in the process of losing money one year, then making say $30K per year the next? Would the bank not soon own your home?
What would you say is the intrinsic value of GM?
Loren
Lower wages ? huh ? The UAW workers make a helluva alot more salary per year than Toyota workers. If you work a little over time at 1 1/2X over 8hrs or work a Sunday at Double Time or a holiday at Triple Time the UAW workers blow away what a Toyota worker makes a year. My Uncle who was in Tool and Die made $150,000 at GM, before he retired because he worked so much darn over time. He made six digit incomes for the last 20 years at GM, but he lived their also.
Rocky
Chrysler held that role for most of the 1990s, consistently delivering show cars to the show room. Back then GM show cars never translated into road cars. Now? Chrysler has stumbled recently. The 300 is great, but subsequent releases are far from design leaders and are even a bit clunky. The connection between show and sell is eroding for Chrysler as well. The beautifully conceived passenger-focused pickup Dodge design study is still on the shelf. Honda delivered an ugly version of the same concept with the Ridgeline. Dodge should have been first to market with a design leader.
By contrast, GM appears to be hitting on all cylinders. Its show cars are stunning and closely related production cars are appearing within months of the show car. (I still wish Saturn was getting a 3-Door Vue like the PreVue show car, but with the added bonus of the Astra, I won't complain.)
This isn't an original observation but I thought it was worth discussing. Why do some companies do a better job hitting the emotional button with stirring design? Why do some companies seem clueless or at best safe? Why do some shops suddenly catch fire? Or go cold? Who else is doing it well right now? How important is attractive design to consumers?
Or is it all resale value and reliability? (I heard a quote about the current Chevy Malibu, something to the effect, "We thought the mid-size sedan market wanted boring. We found out only Toyota can get by with a boring design." Paraphrasing, but you get the idea.)
For me Toyota is not a design leader. Engineering and manufacturing are great, but design? Not so much. What Toyota will do is experiment with different niche vehicles until a niche catches fire. Toyota is always well positioned for market moves. Rarely does Toyota have the best looking vehicle in a market segment.
Hyundai is a mover in design but starting from far back in the pack. Earlier Hyundais were bad. Much of their new work is derivative but very attractive. Often a better copy than the original.
BMW measured by influence is clearly a leader. That Bangle Bump on the trunk? Almost mandatory in an up-market sedan these days.
Actually, one of the things that impresses me about GM with recent work like the new Cadillac CTS is the car looks great without copying others.
Similarly, the 2006-07 Impala is a sales winner. I believe it is because the styling refresh for 2006 is simple, clean and elegant, inside and out. It looks American and athletic. (I know the chassis underneath is not cutting-edge, but it does deliver good value and a nice balance of features for a lot of consumers.)
I'd really like to hear what others think. What about GM design? Whose designs do you like recently? Who is stumbling? Does it matter?
Loren
Isn't that more the UAW's "do not import" issue?
If you had an income of $46K per year, could you afford a $500K home? What if you had say $46K in the bank, but owed some $500K on a home, but were in the process of losing money one year, then making say $30K per year the next? Would the bank not soon own your home?
I'm not familiar with being that far in debt. I know people in Cali own McMansions that cost a cool million or so for a 3 bedroom home and signed their future grandchild's name to the debt. I do watch Flip that House on TLC and am blown away at what peple pay to live in Cali.
I'm not sure what your getting at ? Are you saying GM, doesn't make enough money to pay its debts ? And if so why are they still in business ? I also would like to know what this has to do with anything ? GM, has aprrox. $26 Billion in the bank. Well that's what is being reported as I suspect their is more hidden in over sea's accounts like Delphi, has done.
Rocky