The Malibu(future & today), G6, and Aura are all the same platform, and pretty nearly the same price. Why would you say that the Aura would not take sales away from the other two?
I'm sure that some of the Aura's sales are coming at the expense of the G6 and Malibu. However, I guess there's a chance that the Aura could be luring in people like me, who don't really care for the style of the Malibu or the G6, but do kinda like the Aura.
One thing that the Aura has in its favor is that it offers the higher trim level with the 3.6 DOHC V-6, something that the Malibu/G6 don't offer. And even in cheap strippo form, the Aura comes with a V-6, while they put a 4-cyl in the base Malibu and G6.
However, I doubt if there are enough people like me to make the Aura a smash hit. And when the new '08 Malibu comes out, I think it's going to probably make all these current models , plus the Impala, hopelessly obsolete anyway.
I wonder why GM bothered with the Aura, anyway? With the new platform so close to production, it seems to me that it would've made more sense to just wait until then to launch the Aura. That way it could be fully up-to-date, instead of being a bit of a stopgap, as it seems to be now. Oh well, at least it's one of GM's better stopgaps!
Look the Camry didn;t top Altima and Accord in Cr's comparo's and 2 Toyota's didn;t even score high enough in CR tests to even be reccomended so it wasn't all roses for Toyota in CR's latest issue. I think the last 2 generation of Corolla's got beat by Mazda's Protege (the 99-03 model) and Mazda's 3 compact car in their tests.
To me CR is good for looking at the reliability of cars but their testing is questionable because everybody feels different when they drive a car wether a car is too sporty handling wise or its too smooth on how it rides.
You are walking on some thin ice my friend. I assume you are aware that you are making rather pointed accusations which you could be asked to back up in a court of law. Look we all wonder about car reviews, and may differ in how we view their opinions, but to accuse some people, or organization of taking bribes is quite a leap beyond.
I personally look at lots of data, surveys, reviews and the like before buying a car. CR is but one I would use. Compare all the data.
People can rail against CR all they want. But isn' it just coincindental that almost any non-CR survey put Toyota and Honda at the top of long-term reliability?
Don't take my word, or CR's word, for it! Next time when your car needs repair or an oil change, at an INDEPENDENT garage, ask the mechanics if you were looking for a used car, what car should you buy? Almost certainly their first two choices would be Toyota and Honda, and third choice would be Nissan. I did that several times, so I'm pretty confident.
So maybe CR did a lot of talking to independent garage owners and mechanics!
"However, I doubt if there are enough people like me to make the Aura a smash hit. And when the new '08 Malibu comes out, I think it's going to probably make all these current models , plus the Impala, hopelessly obsolete anyway."
Like the poster "62Vette" said on this thread a new Impala be out for the 09 model with it being RWD so the Malibu will only be cannibilizing Impala sales for 1 model year.
The impala that we are stuck with is the 3rd best selling car in the country as of 2006. It's doing even better this year in spite of relying less on fleet sales. While auto enthusiasts dont like the car, the general public likes it just fine.
"Don't take my word, or CR's word, for it! Next time when your car needs repair or an oil change, at an INDEPENDENT garage, ask the mechanics if you were looking for a used car, what car should you buy? Almost certainly their first two choices would be Toyota and Honda, and third choice would be Nissan. I did that several times, so I'm pretty confident."
Nissan is ok but their vehicles out of their Mississippi truck plant like the Quest Mini-van and Titan pick-up have terrible reliability and even CR says so.
Toyota's reliability must be good. Toyota brand is growing fast. Lexus brand is also growing fast. I don't think that the American consumers are stupid.
Question is: Can GM be equally good? I believe the answer to that is YES. Look how Caddy turned around. When Caddy launched Catera, I thought Caddy would be out of business in no time. But then came CTS, Escalade, XLR, ... and a number of cool models including the ambitious V-series.
Unfortunately, the GM management never bothered to turn Chevy's image around in the same fashion. Don't be surprised if the management hurts Caddy's image again before improving Chevy's.
Other surveys show Toyota and Lexus at the top but often GM brands are right behind them. No one argues that Toyota's arent reliable, but people do argue that american cars arent as bad as CR's silly dark circle system makes them out to be. I find that people who defend CR cant ever explain why other surveys fail to back them up in regards to the supposed unreliability of american cars. Even if you read between the lines at CR you will see the difference is small. CR said the problem rate for Asian cars is 11/100 vehicles and 16/100 vehicles for domestics. Sorry, but that isnt a big difference.
Seeing as though Chevy is the best selling brand in the US I would say their image is OK. The Malibu and upcoming Camaro are bound to improve their image even more. Chevy's lineup is very strong right now. The Cobalt needs some upgrades and the Equinox needs a better engine but other than that they are looking good.
BUT since Saturn is not taking volume from the rest of the GM divisions it is only + volume and getting it from somewhere, hopefully a lot of it is Toyota.
The problem there is that for every potential Toyota buyer that Saturn lures in, Toyota lures in (at least) 2 or 3 buyers from other GM divsions. I believe that much of Saturn's success with import intenders stems from the perception that it is unrelated to the rest of GM. Introducing lightly reskinned versions of the Solstice, G6, and Acadia could jeopardize that, and "Americanizing" the rebadged Opels could jeopardize it further.
Shoot, if I went by CR's silly dark circles, then I must be the luckiest guy alive. I should spend all my money on lottery tickets which would all be winners - take that and go to Las Vegas and bankrupt several large casinos, then go to the track and amass a fortune bigger than that of Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and the Walton clan combined.
Chevy looking good? Number one brand in America means nothing --- it includes rental sales as well as those ugly vans that Chevy sells to U-haul. I guess only Tahoe/ Silverado looks good (despite the fact that GM has raised their prices).
Cobalt, Malibu, Equinox and TrailBlazer need major redesigns. Question is whether the redesigns would be radical enough to hold off Toyota. If Caddy can turn around, Chevy can too. Question is whether the management has the will to turn Chevy around. Minor improvements over the previous generation won't help.
People who buy saturns often will not consider other GM models. There is no evidence that g6 and Malibu sales are being affected by the Aura. The G6 has been steady for quite some time now and had a nice increase last month. The Aura is such a small player right now I dont see it hurting the current malibu or the new one. I would think GM is hoping for at least 15k sales a month of the new malibu once production is up to speed. Also, the G6 has three body styles so that somewhat limits its exposure to being hurt by the sedan only Malibu.
The Malibu is being redesigned for 2008 and will add a hybrid model. The Equinox got a new interior in 2005 that looks just as good as anything you'll find in the competition and it gets a 263hp/6speed combo for 2008. The Impala is the 3rd best selling car in the country. In addition we are getting a hybrid Tahoe this year, 6 speeds for the Tahoe/Silverado for 2008 and a hybrid Silverado in 2008.
GM has been drastically cutting fleet sales so CHevy has better retail sales than last year.
The trailblazer is being phased out, there will be no more upgrades. This is pretty widely known. New Malibu comes this year, new camaro and Impala come in 2009. Chevy looks good and doesnt need a complete image makeover.
Have you ever owned any Japanese cars? I have owned both domestic and foreign cars. The car reviews and the reliability pretty much matched what CR found to be the case, and other reviews and collected data. As far as fun to drive, overall feel, and longevity, once again, it all pretty much follows. My Dad had always owned American cars, up until the day he drove a Camry. He bought a base-base stick Camry, drove it 9 years and loved it. So he bought another one. This from a person which drove many a GM car over the years, as well as other brands American. No magazine won him over. It was the experience with the car. -Loren
If it were possible to break into the secret files of CR and find who the biggest contributors are, I would bet that Toyota is at the top of the list. Look how fast CR changed their story on the hybrids when they were told to. Until CR does legitimate surveys among ALL buyers of a given product they are suspect in my book. Polling their own subscribers is the least likely way to get an honest result. >You are walking on some thin ice my friend. I assume you are aware that you are making rather pointed accusations which you could be asked to back up in a court of law
I don't see anything in the quote that would be worthy of a suing. CR's methods are questionable, to say the least. They are presented to the unwashed as though they are biblical in nature and accepted as such. Perhaps...
Closest I ever came was a new Lexus LS430 around the time I bought my Seville STS. It seemed slightly nicer than the Seville, but not $5K nicer which was the difference between the two cars. The driving dynamics of the Lexus didn't impress me as much as the car's reputation suggested. It felt exactly like driving a Buick Park Avenue. Why should I pay a Mercedes price for what is essentially a Buick?
I can't stand the looks of most Japanese cars for one. Either they are incredibly bland or have some sort of "alien" look to them. I was foolish enough to visit a Toyota dealer to look at a Camry with my girlfriend around the time she bought her Impala. The whole sales experience reminded me of swimming in a shark tank while wearing a scuba suit made of bloody raw meat. I never experienced anything as unpleasant at a GM dealer.
The headlights and taillights seem to have a look to them that say "Japanese car" here. The current pulled sideways stripe taillights do that for me on the Camry and Avalon version.
I'm trying to find a day when I have some hours free and I can take a Prozak and go to the local store to wander through the seaweed and sharks. I'd like to stop at a store in the next state-maybe I need to pick up Powerball tickets tomorrow. I hope that store may not be as forbidding.
that the Impala is doing so well, saleswise, is that sales of other, overlapping cars from GM are dropping off.
For example, YTD through February of 2007, versus 2006:
Impala: 52200, up from 40362 LaCrosse: 6141, down from 10597 Malibu: 17566, down from 26438 Grand Prix: 10016, down from 18877 Lucerne: 12070, down from 13434 G6: 23246, down from 25089 Aura: 7898, new model
GM used to pump a lot of Centurys and Classics (the old style Malibu) into fleets, but both of those models are gone now. That's probably where a lot of GM's "reduced fleet sales" talk came from. Also, the Grand Prix used to be a common rental car, but it seems to be phasing out now. The G6 seems to be doing pretty well. I'd imagine that it's picking up a lot of the Grand Prix's slack. In many ways, it seems to make more sense than the Grand Prix. It's about a foot shorter, but has a more adult-sized back seat. And comparing V-6 models, which probably make up the bulk of sales for each model, the G6 is probably the better performer.
I don't understand the problem with "polling your own subscribers" argument at all.
Did CR mandate, force, coerce, or somehow restrict who could choose to subscribe in the first place? We're the first 100,000 subscribers to CR all Japanese with stock in Toyota and Honda?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
The problem is the list of subscribers to CR is not a random sample of the owners of all types of cars. Then when the questionnaires are returned or not reeturned the sample becomes skewed even more. The data from the samples is not indicated in any manner. E.g., how many 2001 Civic 4 cyl were sampled? HOw many 2003 Chevrolets with the larger motor were sampled? How many with smaller more? How many Versas? How many Bonnevilles 2002 Supercharged? How many G6s from 2006? There's no indication of the validity of the data for any particular model. We're supposed to "just trust them?"
Actually, CR provides a minimum data figure, otherwise they won't comment on reliability (I forget what the exact figure was, but it more than satisfied me). That is why they didn't provide a rating for the VW GTI; not enough data.
CR isn't stupid.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Basically, you have nothing to compare your cars to however, with no foreign cars ever owner.
I did test drive a used Seville. Pretty nice ride. The CTS is also a good solid car. Was considering a used car at one time. Ended up with a new Accord SEV6, which I really do like. The Aura is also a decent car. The Aura XR is surely a rocket - very fast, and the 6 sp. seems to work well. All in all, a good car when compared to the competition. My deal on the Accord SE was however better and it has about the same handling and power as does the more expensive Aura XR.
So far I have yet to look at a Lexus. First of all, they are expensive, second they have no dealership in the area, and lastly I am not so sure they are worth the bucks. In the near luxury, I am thinking the CTS or perhaps an Acura though it has to prove itself much more car than the Accord to win me over. Unless I am buying a really expensive Lexus, and have some cash to burn, I would say the Camry V6 would do fine. That is if I wanted that sort of ride. I like Honda's more connected feel and that double wishbone suspension, more than the Camry. To each his own, no doubt. -Loren
I have never owned a Japanese car, but I have ridden in and driven them. I always expected some great epiphany...I rode in my brother-in-law's '97 Civic coupe and it made the same loose front-end noises my same-year Cavalier with more miles made. I recently rode in a friend's two-year old Avalon and the rotors were warped, same thing I grumble about in my Chevys. Styling is subjective of course, but I agree with the poster that said Japanese styling usually turns him off due to "alien" styling. I agree totally. I have gotten out of Japanese cars and while I won't say they are "junk" (like other posters here say about domestic iron), but I can't say I was just floored with the differences over domestic, either.
Bill
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The rotors on the Avalon were not warped, but had some deposits on them. When the car was first driven, as in say first 150 miles, the brakes may have been stomped on and not broken in properly. My Honda brakes are really smooth in way of no vibration.
I don't know about front end noises on a Civic, I do believe in 1997 they still had the double wishbone suspension up front, which means improved handling. The car should be far better in respect to driving dynamics than was the Cavalier. -Loren
Shooting the messenger for bringing a message you don't want to hear is not very adult IMHO. I guess if CR were to say that all American cars were fabulous and all imports rubbish then you'd be happy (?). But that would be lying and, from the little I've seen, CR don't do that.
Learn to live with the facts that the importers, (most of whom actually produce in USA, anyway), are outperforming the so-called domestics, (and where are most of their cars made ?). Maybe the domestics can turn that around but if they can't then they don't deserve to survive. Had it not been for the imports the Big Three would still be dishing up whale-bodied V8's with 3-spd slush boxes, cross-ply tyres and naugahyde seats. Competition is healthy; applaud it.
From what I see of Cadillac they appear to be re-bodying/fiddling around with Saab's. Hardly American Iron.
Right now it's the Japanese and Europeans that are chewing on the NA market, (with the Koreans coming along nicely) . How long before it's the Chinese doing the same on all the markets ?
End of rant.
Apologies if anyone found it offensive. No offence was intended.
What makes you say that the rotors on the Avalon were not warped? Clairvoyant or something? Fact is, whatever the reason, they needed resurfacing...which takes rotor life off.
Bill
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The problem there is that for every potential Toyota buyer that Saturn lures in, Toyota lures in (at least) 2 or 3 buyers from other GM divsions. I believe that much of Saturn's success with import intenders stems from the perception that it is unrelated to the rest of GM. Introducing lightly reskinned versions of the Solstice, G6, and Acadia could jeopardize that, and "Americanizing" the rebadged Opels could jeopardize it further.
I believe you are right. Saturn's reputation as a "non GM" division however, is pretty much over, don't you think? They are kicking out some nice looking cars NOW, but for the past 10 years, GM has flat out ruined Saturn IMO. They were ugly in the extreme, and no better than a Chevy in any of their driving dynamics. Now, Saturns have the little GM badge on both sides of them, so the separation I think, is over. GM needs fewer divisions, duplicating platforms, IMO, and I don't know who they should shudder, but 3 divisions for cars should be plenty. Chevy/Saturn is duplication in the market. Pontiac/Buick pretty much is too. Cadillac has a reason to live. All trucks should be GMCs IMO. Then they would surpass Ford as the number 1 selling truck. How hard is that to figure out?
Anyway, I don't think they need Saturn, they need to give those great looking cars to Chevrolet, and shut Saturn down.
You need to get real. If companies went after every blogger that questioned their ethics they would go out of business in short order. I believe that CR is a paid entity to the biggest contributors. There I said it again. You can believe whatever you like about them. I would not read that rag if it was the only magazine in the dentist's office.
I have owned more than half a dozen new Japanese vehicles since 1964. Not a one was as reliable as my last 5 GM trucks. That included Toyota, Datsun, Honda & Subaru. The only one that came close was a 1970 Datsun PU truck. That was a good little truck. I hear after about 30 years in this country both Toyota and Honda finally got it right.
Thank you for contacting Cadillac and for your interest in the 2008 CTS! We appreciate the time you have taken to write us today. Cadillac engineers have designed and developed new geometry for both the independent short/long arm front suspension and the multilink rear suspension. Engineers implemented numerous tweaks and revisions to the suspension using extensive computer modeling, combined with development driving of prototype cars on roads all over the world, but mostly in North America, Europe and China . The multilink rear suspension, with a fully isolated subframe, is an uncompromising design with excellent suspension kinematics that delivers a superior ride with excellent handling. The rear suspension design is shared in both the rear-wheel and all- wheel-drive models, and has been extensively revised to accommodate a larger rear track. Magnetic Ride Control and Bluetooth have not been officially announced as available options, we apologize for the inconveneince. We expect to have final vehicle specifications in late April.
To obtain more information regarding the 2008 CTS, please visit www.cadillac. com or contact your preferred dealership.
At Cadillac, we strive to provide exceptional customer service. If we can be of any further assistance please email us or call 1-800-333-4223, between 8:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time, seven days a week. Thank you for contacting Cadillac!
Chevy's lineup is very strong right now. The Cobalt needs some upgrades and the Equinox needs a better engine but other than that they are looking good.
I'm a CR online subscriber and I have noticed that there is definitely a subtle bias against domeatic cars. It is revealed in the adjectives they use to describe vehicles. Poor mileage on a Toyota is "unimpressive" while on a similar model Chevy the same mileage may be described as "dismal". However I would assume a domestic car rated average by CR is probably a very good vehicle.
The cool thing is the 08' Malibu, will pick up where the Impala left off allowing GM, to have the benchmark big RWD Sedan and be the #1 cop car once again. Us ordinary Joe's will get the big and powerful RWD Sedan we've craved for so long.
Does it really matter what you think about CR ? Enough people use it as a deciding factor when buying their next car. And unless domestic quality equals the Japanese in their survey; GM, FORD and DC will keep on losing sales. You better hope Billy Ford, and Rick Wagoner is reading Consumer Reports. A bad review could be the nail in the coffin for the domestics.
Well over the years, I guess one could say they have had some bias in those car reviews. IMHO, the one report that stands out as most silly statement goes way back to the 1970's or maybe it was early 80's, when they tested a Cutlass Supreme. They noted that there was not enough air in the tires. Grant it, they should have supplied a car with proper tire inflation, but really now, the first thing one would look at and note while doing car testing is air pressure in tires to match what it has listed on the doors. Are any of the reports actually incorrect? I don't know about that, as a lot of things in reviews are simply subjective, so it comes down to opinions. Are any facts wrong? I have not seen anything so far, but that is largely due to only buying the yearly report the last decade. Been a long time since I read a monthly report. I did not a yearly report on cars, when the Dodge Stealth was examined, and they found the goodness and the weakness in that car pretty much as they were. I owned one and found the report to be pretty much spot-on.
For the most part, I look at the survey data on Consumer Reports, more so than any test drives. Not to say that they do not bring up some interesting points about the car. Even if you disagree, or feel they over-exaggerate a defect in say a GM more so than a Toyota, you can look at what they say, and then test or look over that area of the car yourself, and decide. People may disagree with say Edmund's reviews, which is fine. All these reports are a starting point, and a way to get you to look at areas of a car which they think are good or bad, and then let the buyer do his or her assessment. That said, there is good argument that people read a magazine as a bible of sorts, which may be a problem. I am guilty as charged some time of not even testing a car rated as sloppy or slow handling. At least I cross-check it though with a couple more reports. And I suppose some cars rated poorly for reliability I will not consider, though once again, I check several sources. -Loren
Listening to car reports, and most importantly to what the customer really wants in their auto, is one thing the Japanese have done best. Instead of making something, then trying to convince you that it was a car which fits your needs, they actually meet expectations. Thus, another reason they are ahead in the game.
Funny, in a sad way, that a company spent countless hours tearing down a car to see what the competition was building, yet never improving, looking forward to meeting needs by asking clients, and simply - seemingly shelving the info. Perhaps the bean counters found improvements too costly? Pretty sad what happened in the 70's thru the 90's. A more current example of what is wrong with GM is the overall good car, the CTS, came out without telescopic steering column. Pretty cheap, considering an economy car, like the Mazda3 has it standard. The car itself is OK, but really the customer may want for a few things. Not sure why they can not decide on an engine for that car. First is was 3.2, then 3.2 and 3.6, and now 2.8 and 3.6V6. Please, just stick the 3.6V6 in there. -Loren
>I'm a CR online subscriber and I have noticed that there is definitely a subtle bias against domeatic cars. It is revealed in the adjectives they use to describe vehicles.
Jackpot! That's what I've said before. I've had to use the same technique myself in evaluations!!!
I've never seen the need for telescopic column. My power seats and flexible steering wheel adjustments on GM cars have suited me to a T. I did find the Ford Fusion/500 tilt column were the whole column goes up and down very strange to adjust the seating position to fit.
And, please, don't think they are gospel or anything like that, but I can remember back in the 60s or early 70s that GM folks complained that the Plymouth Valiant was getting better grades than the Nova.
Some things never change.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
You may not have short arms. Some of use just have to reach out too far to the steering wheel. Having movable pedals and steering is a bit overdone. -Loren
I just adjust the GM 10-way power seat to fit. Works every time. I move the seat closer to adjust for arm length. I'm not sure what you're saying about shorter arm length. I assume different cars can compensate for different seat power adjustment abilities with different mechanisms.
What about Lexus starting off with a ES250 which was a dog of an engine with bad MPG. They went to the 3.0 then the 3.3 now the 3.5. Acura when they released the Legend in '86 had a 2.5L next year they had a 2.7 then followed by another engine shortly thereafter. A lot of mfgs change engines be it for competitive reasons or others. How many different displacement engines has BMW had in the 3 series in the past 8 years? What the Japanese did best in the 70's and 80's was to introduce the cars in Japan 3-4 years before exporting them. This gave them an opportunity to work out the bugs. They also produced cars that were simpler in the fact that a vast majority did not have power windows or locks and other items to break a few years down the road giving a bad impression of quality to the consumer. It is easy to build a simple reliable car it is more difficult to build a complex(electronics,suspension) reliable car. Ask Mercedes.
The validity or value of CR has come up before, and will come up again, no doubt :sick:
Let's swing back to the subject rather than getting tied up in that side issue please.
And thanks to all for doing a good job of keeping things from turning personal! I know how easy it is to read things into comments made in a post and I appreciate the effort it takes to not escalate things in a topic where there are such strong opinions!
Comments
I'm sure that some of the Aura's sales are coming at the expense of the G6 and Malibu. However, I guess there's a chance that the Aura could be luring in people like me, who don't really care for the style of the Malibu or the G6, but do kinda like the Aura.
One thing that the Aura has in its favor is that it offers the higher trim level with the 3.6 DOHC V-6, something that the Malibu/G6 don't offer. And even in cheap strippo form, the Aura comes with a V-6, while they put a 4-cyl in the base Malibu and G6.
However, I doubt if there are enough people like me to make the Aura a smash hit. And when the new '08 Malibu comes out, I think it's going to probably make all these current models , plus the Impala, hopelessly obsolete anyway.
I wonder why GM bothered with the Aura, anyway? With the new platform so close to production, it seems to me that it would've made more sense to just wait until then to launch the Aura. That way it could be fully up-to-date, instead of being a bit of a stopgap, as it seems to be now. Oh well, at least it's one of GM's better stopgaps!
To me CR is good for looking at the reliability of cars but their testing is questionable because everybody feels different when they drive a car wether a car is too sporty handling wise or its too smooth on how it rides.
I personally look at lots of data, surveys, reviews and the like before buying a car. CR is but one I would use. Compare all the data.
Don't take my word, or CR's word, for it! Next time when your car needs repair or an oil change, at an INDEPENDENT garage, ask the mechanics if you were looking for a used car, what car should you buy? Almost certainly their first two choices would be Toyota and Honda, and third choice would be Nissan. I did that several times, so I'm pretty confident.
So maybe CR did a lot of talking to independent garage owners and mechanics!
Like the poster "62Vette" said on this thread a new Impala be out for the 09 model with it being RWD so the Malibu will only be cannibilizing Impala sales for 1 model year.
Nissan is ok but their vehicles out of their Mississippi truck plant like the Quest Mini-van and Titan pick-up have terrible reliability and even CR says so.
Question is: Can GM be equally good? I believe the answer to that is YES. Look how Caddy turned around. When Caddy launched Catera, I thought Caddy would be out of business in no time. But then came CTS, Escalade, XLR, ... and a number of cool models including the ambitious V-series.
Unfortunately, the GM management never bothered to turn Chevy's image around in the same fashion. Don't be surprised if the management hurts Caddy's image again before improving Chevy's.
The problem there is that for every potential Toyota buyer that Saturn lures in, Toyota lures in (at least) 2 or 3 buyers from other GM divsions. I believe that much of Saturn's success with import intenders stems from the perception that it is unrelated to the rest of GM. Introducing lightly reskinned versions of the Solstice, G6, and Acadia could jeopardize that, and "Americanizing" the rebadged Opels could jeopardize it further.
Cobalt, Malibu, Equinox and TrailBlazer need major redesigns. Question is whether the redesigns would be radical enough to hold off Toyota. If Caddy can turn around, Chevy can too. Question is whether the management has the will to turn Chevy around. Minor improvements over the previous generation won't help.
The Malibu is being redesigned for 2008 and will add a hybrid model. The Equinox got a new interior in 2005 that looks just as good as anything you'll find in the competition and it gets a 263hp/6speed combo for 2008. The Impala is the 3rd best selling car in the country. In addition we are getting a hybrid Tahoe this year, 6 speeds for the Tahoe/Silverado for 2008 and a hybrid Silverado in 2008.
GM has been drastically cutting fleet sales so CHevy has better retail sales than last year.
The trailblazer is being phased out, there will be no more upgrades. This is pretty widely known. New Malibu comes this year, new camaro and Impala come in 2009. Chevy looks good and doesnt need a complete image makeover.
-Loren
-Loren
>You are walking on some thin ice my friend. I assume you are aware that you are making rather pointed accusations which you could be asked to back up in a court of law
I don't see anything in the quote that would be worthy of a suing. CR's methods are questionable, to say the least. They are presented to the unwashed as though they are biblical in nature and accepted as such. Perhaps...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I can't stand the looks of most Japanese cars for one. Either they are incredibly bland or have some sort of "alien" look to them. I was foolish enough to visit a Toyota dealer to look at a Camry with my girlfriend around the time she bought her Impala. The whole sales experience reminded me of swimming in a shark tank while wearing a scuba suit made of bloody raw meat. I never experienced anything as unpleasant at a GM dealer.
I'm trying to find a day when I have some hours free and I can take a Prozak and go to the local store to wander through the seaweed and sharks. I'd like to stop at a store in the next state-maybe I need to pick up Powerball tickets tomorrow. I hope that store may not be as forbidding.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For example, YTD through February of 2007, versus 2006:
Impala: 52200, up from 40362
LaCrosse: 6141, down from 10597
Malibu: 17566, down from 26438
Grand Prix: 10016, down from 18877
Lucerne: 12070, down from 13434
G6: 23246, down from 25089
Aura: 7898, new model
GM used to pump a lot of Centurys and Classics (the old style Malibu) into fleets, but both of those models are gone now. That's probably where a lot of GM's "reduced fleet sales" talk came from. Also, the Grand Prix used to be a common rental car, but it seems to be phasing out now. The G6 seems to be doing pretty well. I'd imagine that it's picking up a lot of the Grand Prix's slack. In many ways, it seems to make more sense than the Grand Prix. It's about a foot shorter, but has a more adult-sized back seat. And comparing V-6 models, which probably make up the bulk of sales for each model, the G6 is probably the better performer.
Did CR mandate, force, coerce, or somehow restrict who could choose to subscribe in the first place? We're the first 100,000 subscribers to CR all Japanese with stock in Toyota and Honda?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
CR isn't stupid.
I did test drive a used Seville. Pretty nice ride. The CTS is also a good solid car. Was considering a used car at one time. Ended up with a new Accord SEV6, which I really do like. The Aura is also a decent car. The Aura XR is surely a rocket - very fast, and the 6 sp. seems to work well. All in all, a good car when compared to the competition. My deal on the Accord SE was however better and it has about the same handling and power as does the more expensive Aura XR.
So far I have yet to look at a Lexus. First of all, they are expensive, second they have no dealership in the area, and lastly I am not so sure they are worth the bucks. In the near luxury, I am thinking the CTS or perhaps an Acura though it has to prove itself much more car than the Accord to win me over. Unless I am buying a really expensive Lexus, and have some cash to burn, I would say the Camry V6 would do fine. That is if I wanted that sort of ride. I like Honda's more connected feel and that double wishbone suspension, more than the Camry. To each his own, no doubt.
-Loren
Bill
I don't know about front end noises on a Civic, I do believe in 1997 they still had the double wishbone suspension up front, which means improved handling. The car should be far better in respect to driving dynamics than was the Cavalier.
-Loren
Learn to live with the facts that the importers, (most of whom actually produce in USA, anyway), are outperforming the so-called domestics, (and where are most of their cars made ?). Maybe the domestics can turn that around but if they can't then they don't deserve to survive. Had it not been for the imports the Big Three would still be dishing up whale-bodied V8's with 3-spd slush boxes, cross-ply tyres and naugahyde seats. Competition is healthy; applaud it.
From what I see of Cadillac they appear to be re-bodying/fiddling around with Saab's. Hardly American Iron.
Right now it's the Japanese and Europeans that are chewing on the NA market, (with the Koreans coming along nicely) . How long before it's the Chinese doing the same on all the markets ?
End of rant.
Apologies if anyone found it offensive. No offence was intended.
Bill
Bill
I believe you are right. Saturn's reputation as a "non GM" division however, is pretty much over, don't you think? They are kicking out some nice looking cars NOW, but for the past 10 years, GM has flat out ruined Saturn IMO. They were ugly in the extreme, and no better than a Chevy in any of their driving dynamics. Now, Saturns have the little GM badge on both sides of them, so the separation I think, is over. GM needs fewer divisions, duplicating platforms, IMO, and I don't know who they should shudder, but 3 divisions for cars should be plenty. Chevy/Saturn is duplication in the market. Pontiac/Buick pretty much is too. Cadillac has a reason to live. All trucks should be GMCs IMO. Then they would surpass Ford as the number 1 selling truck. How hard is that to figure out?
Anyway, I don't think they need Saturn, they need to give those great looking cars to Chevrolet, and shut Saturn down.
You need to get real. If companies went after every blogger that questioned their ethics they would go out of business in short order. I believe that CR is a paid entity to the biggest contributors. There I said it again. You can believe whatever you like about them. I would not read that rag if it was the only magazine in the dentist's office.
I have owned more than half a dozen new Japanese vehicles since 1964. Not a one was as reliable as my last 5 GM trucks. That included Toyota, Datsun, Honda & Subaru. The only one that came close was a 1970 Datsun PU truck. That was a good little truck. I hear after about 30 years in this country both Toyota and Honda finally got it right.
Dear Rocky,
Thank you for contacting Cadillac and for your interest in the 2008 CTS! We
appreciate the time you have taken to write us today. Cadillac engineers have
designed and developed new geometry for both the independent short/long arm
front suspension and the multilink rear suspension. Engineers implemented
numerous tweaks and revisions to the suspension using extensive computer
modeling, combined with development driving of prototype cars on roads all over
the world, but mostly in North America, Europe and China . The multilink rear
suspension, with a fully isolated subframe, is an uncompromising design with
excellent suspension kinematics that delivers a superior ride with excellent
handling. The rear suspension design is shared in both the rear-wheel and all-
wheel-drive models, and has been extensively revised to accommodate a larger
rear track. Magnetic Ride Control and Bluetooth have not been officially
announced as available options, we apologize for the inconveneince. We expect
to have final vehicle specifications in late April.
To obtain more information regarding the 2008 CTS, please visit www.cadillac.
com or contact your preferred dealership.
At Cadillac, we strive to provide exceptional customer service. If we can be
of any further assistance please email us or call 1-800-333-4223, between 8:00
a.m. and 11:00 p.m., Eastern Time, seven days a week. Thank you for contacting
Cadillac!
Sincerely,
The Cadillac Marketing Team
www.cadillac.com
Maybe drinking too much cool-aide.
Loren
Rocky
For the most part, I look at the survey data on Consumer Reports, more so than any test drives. Not to say that they do not bring up some interesting points about the car. Even if you disagree, or feel they over-exaggerate a defect in say a GM more so than a Toyota, you can look at what they say, and then test or look over that area of the car yourself, and decide. People may disagree with say Edmund's reviews, which is fine. All these reports are a starting point, and a way to get you to look at areas of a car which they think are good or bad, and then let the buyer do his or her assessment. That said, there is good argument that people read a magazine as a bible of sorts, which may be a problem. I am guilty as charged some time of not even testing a car rated as sloppy or slow handling. At least I cross-check it though with a couple more reports. And I suppose some cars rated poorly for reliability I will not consider, though once again, I check several sources.
-Loren
Funny, in a sad way, that a company spent countless hours tearing down a car to see what the competition was building, yet never improving, looking forward to meeting needs by asking clients, and simply - seemingly shelving the info. Perhaps the bean counters found improvements too costly? Pretty sad what happened in the 70's thru the 90's. A more current example of what is wrong with GM is the overall good car, the CTS, came out without telescopic steering column. Pretty cheap, considering an economy car, like the Mazda3 has it standard. The car itself is OK, but really the customer may want for a few things. Not sure why they can not decide on an engine for that car. First is was 3.2, then 3.2 and 3.6, and now 2.8 and 3.6V6. Please, just stick the 3.6V6 in there.
-Loren
Jackpot!
That's what I've said before. I've had to use the same technique myself in evaluations!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've never seen the need for telescopic column. My power seats and flexible steering wheel adjustments on GM cars have suited me to a T. I did find the Ford Fusion/500 tilt column were the whole column goes up and down very strange to adjust the seating position to fit.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Some things never change.
-Loren
Back to toyotas.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What the Japanese did best in the 70's and 80's was to introduce the cars in Japan 3-4 years before exporting them.
This gave them an opportunity to work out the bugs.
They also produced cars that were simpler in the fact that a vast majority did not have power windows or locks and other items to break a few years down the road giving a bad impression of quality to the consumer. It is easy to build a simple reliable car it is more difficult to build a complex(electronics,suspension) reliable car. Ask Mercedes.
Let's swing back to the subject rather than getting tied up in that side issue please.
And thanks to all for doing a good job of keeping things from turning personal! I know how easy it is to read things into comments made in a post and I appreciate the effort it takes to not escalate things in a topic where there are such strong opinions!
Now...back to our regularly scheduled program.