General Motors discussions

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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yep, as their are those rare customers like you that would make a big deal out of it. All I can say is try another dealer. Don't you guys when you shop for a vehicle go shop around to more than your local store ? I know I do unless I find a awesome store and then they will trade for the model I want. ;)

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well the gas mileage should be better than that. Would suggest taking it out of low gear. Tacoma is top dog about everywhere. Guess gas is cheap in Texas, and image is everything, especially carrying those heavy bags from the shopping malls. Yes, and GMC half-ton will be a better work truck. May also consider the Tundra. :P Sorry the smaller truck war was lost years ago. Perhaps the Ranger is hanging in there, but heaven only knows as to why.
    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    $15,000 for what Tacoma ? I've never seen one less than $24,000. Who would dare buy a $15K Tacoma. What do you get a card board box seats off the Kia line ? :P

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Let's sit back and look at facts. The facts are you found yourself liking an Acura enough to own one. Does that make you less of a person in the eyes of the "Made in America" voices? I have probably owned more GM vehicles than you have. I liked them all. I really wish I had not sold my 1998 Suburban. It was a real nice vehicle. I thought I needed a PU truck and ended up with this GMC. It is quiet if I can get the doors to latch. It has good power and stops good. It has not given me one minute of problems. The dealer is good, gives me free service. If it was a crew cab I would not consider selling it. The back seat is not big enough for adults to sit comfortably. So I went looking for a new GMC crew cab. I drove it for about 20 minutes. It was not top of the line just the SLE2 without leather. Under acceleration the engine was louder than my 5.3 L hybrid. If some writer said different I say he is full of beans. He did not drive both in a short time frame as I did. It leaves me in a dilemma. I don't like anything on the market today. Maybe a Porsche or Ferrari. Wife says no to them.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Hemi, engine is junk it get's about 11 mpg in real world drivng and a 5.3 will beat it today in a sprint. The Hemi, is a hype from those old 60's cars. The Tacoma, is a rare find here in Truck Country but I do see the occassional Canyon/Colorado on the roads as they can go off-road with their Z-71 suspension and 4x4 gearing. Dad and Uncle like theirs alot. The 07' Tundra, also is a rare breed around here. Only saw one at work. I see plenty of 07' Silvy's and GMC's everywhere along with lots of Tahoe's and Yukon's. I also see plenty of GMC Denali's and Suburbans, and Yukon XL's. GM owns the Truck market here in Truck Country. Sure you will see the occassional Ford or Dodge 077's but most people know GM's trucks are superior in every way. I saw a new 07' Saturn Aura in Logan, NM this weekend. They are very sharp !!!! :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Canyon/Colorado get around 24 mpg hwy. The midsize truck war hasn't been lost. According to who ? Unless they are selling in California, because I've only seen maybe 5 of them here in Texas. I've seen plenty of Colorado/Canyons here as they are good trail trucks that one can take down to the river to go off-roading in the mud of the Canadian River in between here and Amarillo. ;)

    I warn you to bring a barf bag if you look on the inside of the Tundra. :P

    Rocky

    P.S. I haven't seen a newer Ranger yet this year ? The only ones I see are 5-10 year old models driven by punk kids smoking with 15 inch subs rattling the beds ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here we agree. I would rather have my GMC than a Tacoma. They do not get good mileage. They are waaaay over priced.

    Getting back to the new PU trucks. If you are comparing a Yukon Denali to the PU truck it is not apples to apples. The trucks are cheaper made by far. A Yukon Denali is very quiet. Though I have not driven the 2007 only the 2006. I am not going to like the lack of real bumpers no matter how much you like the new styles. Just ain't gonna happen. If GM were to offer a diesel SUV that gets 25 MPG as the GL320 CDI I would seriously consider buying one. It is a great vehicle. Not sure I would plunk down $70k to have one in my garage. Until you have driven one you are just listening to someone else's bias. Try one and you will probably swear off the Escalade. Except that Diamond pearl White is pretty. Lexus, BMW or Mercedes does not have a paint job to compare.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So gagrice, is on the attack :P I got his blood pressure up :blush:

    Okay....Let's sit back and look at facts. The facts are you found yourself liking an Acura enough to own one. Does that make you less of a person in the eyes of the "Made in America" voices?

    Yes, I made a severe blunder. I got mad at GM's customer service for what they did which is nothing back 3 1/2 years ago when a local dealer ruined my credit. I should of sued them or make them pay to clean it up for me but I was trying to hold GM, accountable which they should of done more to help me. I wanted to buy a 05' Duramax, and because my credit was so good they sent my credit to lots of banks to lower my beacon score while they locked me in at a higher interest rate and got kick backs. this happened to a couple of friends. This was the same dealer enterprise who was fined by the FBI for selling vehicles with features not found on the cars but charging cusomers for them.

    I made a mistake and latter paid for it by wiining a law suit against a Acura affiliate.

    I have probably owned more GM vehicles than you have.

    I don't know about that one......I've owned quite a few gagrice ;)

    I liked them all. I really wish I had not sold my 1998 Suburban. It was a real nice vehicle. I thought I needed a PU truck and ended up with this GMC. It is quiet if I can get the doors to latch.

    Glad you like em'. The door hinge problem should of probably been recalled. I know about this problem and GM, has addressed this major issue with the 07's so I've read. ;)

    It has good power and stops good. It has not given me one minute of problems. The dealer is good, gives me free service. If it was a crew cab I would not consider selling it. The back seat is not big enough for adults to sit comfortably. So I went looking for a new GMC crew cab. I drove it for about 20 minutes. It was not top of the line just the SLE2 without leather. Under acceleration the engine was louder than my 5.3 L hybrid. If some writer said different I say he is full of beans. He did not drive both in a short time frame as I did. It leaves me in a dilemma. I don't like anything on the market today. Maybe a Porsche or Ferrari. Wife says no to them.

    Try a Sierra Denali, as it might be a lil quieter. They are just coming out now. How bout a Escalade or EXT ? You can get them with 18 inch tires if you are against Dubs. How bout a CUV like the new GMC Acadia ? They are going to make a Denali version with a 5.3 V8. The Buick Enclave is nice also. How bout a new Caddy SRX with Magneride ? It can carty people and cargo and is quite fast. ;)

    I think you are giving up to easily. How bout a new 08 Super Duty King Ranch. Boy they are Sharp also :shades:

    You can get that cool tailgate step and metal bumpers on both ends. ;)

    Keep a lookin' the 08's are/will be here and offer you more options. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    How bout a 2007 Sierra Denali gagrice ?

    http://www.gmc.com/sierra900/denali/index.jsp

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Duramax Diesel Tahoe's/Yukon's will not be available for a couple of more years. The 2-mode hybrid SUV's will pull 26 mpg city/hwy average and will be out this fall. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Until you have driven one you are just listening to someone else's bias. Try one and you will probably swear off the Escalade. Except that Diamond pearl White is pretty. Lexus, BMW or Mercedes does not have a paint job to compare.

    I'm not much of a Mercedes fan. I also would save thousands on the Slade where a Merc I'd be paying closer to sticker. I do not like the new GL series as if I was to own one I'd want the GL450 and they are $80+K for the model I'd want with options. That is way out of my range. I do like the pearl White Slades but I'd probably end up with Black. I did check out a used white 05 Cadillac STS V8 with 13K on her on autotrade. It was pearl white and was very sharp. I have not ruled out buying a 08' Escalade hybrid :shades:

    Rocky
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Here we agree. I would rather have my GMC than a Tacoma. They do not get good mileage. They are waaaay over priced.

    Vehicles that are "way overpriced" get what are called "incentives". GM has true leadership in that market. Toyota can barely spell incentive. Hopefully GM will have a seminar, sell some CDs on the subject in the near future, I hope, I hope! :blush:

    If you would trade a cylinder, and a MUCH quicker truck for 3-4 MPG, you're probably not buying a Tacoma. I, personally, would buy any sled thrown my way if it saved 3MPG. ;)

    Toyota trucks are rotten on the trail, everybody knows that! :P

    It's always a suprise to see a Colorado on the road. Kinda like an Aztec, or a Studebaker.

    DrFill
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'm yet to know anyone who has paid less than $24K which is only a few people as no one buys them around here. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It's always a suprise to see a Colorado on the road. Kinda like an Aztec, or a Studebaker.

    Well the Tacoma, driver joins that company around here. :P

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well then it is most fortunate for Toyota that they sell everywhere else. :)
    And I suppose they don't put kayaks or surfboards in the back of those trucks in Texas. Oh well, different parts of the country need different transportation, I guess. If you were to ask someone around here if GMC or Chevy made a smaller truck, most people would say, well they did some time back. I think it was called the S10, is what they would say. Sort of an Izusu truck partnership with GM, I think that was. GM made them in USA. Certainly the Silverado would ring a bell, or at least that they make a larger truck still.
    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL.....I can feel your sarcasm in that lil' smile of yours :P

    Rocky

    P.S. Isuzu still shares a colorado/canyon platform with GM. I don't recall what Isuzu calls it :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    MANCHESTER, U.K. — It's a watershed moment for one of the most iconic American brands. General Motors on Monday took the wraps off a prototype right-hand-drive Hummer H3, which signals the Detroit brand's commitment to making serious inroads into foreign markets.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120025

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    DETROIT — Clearly spoiling for a fight with Japanese midsize hybrid sedans, Saturn announced on Monday that its new 2007 Aura Green Line Hybrid will carry a starting price of $22,695, including a $650 destination charge. That baseline price significantly undercuts the Honda Accord Hybrid and the Toyota Camry Hybrid. The Aura Green Line Hybrid is on sale now.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120024

    Rocky
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    use the same hybrid system as the Vue?

    If so, I am underwhelmed. I am curious, however, to see how the new 2008 EPA ratings measure the Camry Hybrid against the Aura GL.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    GM pits hybrid Aura vs. Toyota

    Automaker confronts rival by selling cheapest gas-electric vehicle in U.S. with Saturn sedan.

    Looking to challenge Toyota Motor Co. for fuel-conscious consumers, General Motors Corp. plans to sell the cheapest hybrid -- the Saturn Aura -- on the U.S. market, the automaker announced Monday.

    A hybrid version of the Saturn Aura sedan will hit showrooms this month, with a starting price of $22,695 -- $100 less than Toyota's trend-setting Prius hybrid. The Aura will be the first hybrid sedan sold in the United States by an American automaker.

    Aura buyers also will get a $1,300 tax break as part of the federal government's push to get more drivers to purchase fuel-sipping hybrids.

    "It makes true hybrid fuel savings available to more people than ever before," Saturn General Manager Jill Lajdziak said.

    http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070320/AUTO01/703200368/1148
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    WASHINGTON, D.C. — It's a sort of automotive détente, as President Bush and the U.S. domestic automakers, who have not always been on the coziest terms, plan a couple of major get-togethers in the coming days.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120031

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    In annual report, carmaker details risks to turnaround, including accounting methods that could spark fines.

    http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070316/AUTO01/703160371/1148/AUT- O01

    The UAW, should go in their and say we will pay $150.00 a month per family for health insurance. GM, has how many working employees here in the U.S. 62vetteefp ?

    The main thing is the UAW, needs to fight for no retiree health insurance increases as these folks are on a very limited income.

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,745
    The GM retirees in this area seem to be on very good retirement incomes. This is compared to the people who decided to let social security be a retirement plan instead of a subsidy, i.e., they saved nothing for their retirements because Uncle Sammy was supposed to give them the good life in their good old days.

    What kind of retirement income do the GM workers have who retired at the full term? It looks like they do very well. Perhaps they need to pay a part of their healthcare costs like most other retirees from companies are having to do. For social security retirees with no other plans involved Medicare/Medicaid (I confuse the two) is picking up the tab--that's US taxpayers.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    They don't seem to like it. Biased? Maybe.

    Chief Road Test Editor Chris Walton says:

    I can't think of a vehicle in the past 10 years that has so frustrated, disappointed and flat-out infuriated me as the Pontiac Solstice. With all the anticipation leading up to its initial introduction in model-year 2006, I had admittedly high hopes for the little beauty that bore Bob Lutz's highly publicized stamp of approval. With a year's worth of experience behind it, and added performance ahead, the 2007 Solstice GXP reignited my optimism, but ultimately fueled my despair.

    It does everything it can to anger me. It started with an impossible-to-reach seatbelt that jammed between the door and the seat. It moved on impossible window switches and to inadequate interior storage. Finally I've got an infuriating story about putting the convertible top down/up, which not only requires getting out of the car and a handful of Rube Goldberg steps, but also running around the car to both sides.

    In terms of sports car driving — wherein steering, brakes, suspension, clutch and engine all have something useful to say — my brother's 1967 Austin Healey has a better vocabulary. I haven't stalled a car in years, but managed to flame out in the Solstice, twice. The engine always sounds like it's always 200 rpm away from self-destruction. The shift action feels artificially heavy. The chassis provides admirable levels of tire grip, but doesn't communicate one bit of information through the steering or body motions. The brakes are equally capable, yet lifeless.

    In the end, the GXP hasn't got a soul. I'd gladly give up performance and even pay more for the opportunity to experience a tiny bit more inspiration and enthusiasm.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Since you're decided to duplicate a discussion that belongs on the pickups board and are done talking aboutthe companies, it's obvious that this one has run it's course and will be retired.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I know the UAW, is in a no win fight this September and concession are coming.

    I's say give GM, a $150.00 a month healthcare contribution as it is around what most others are paying at union shops that have similar pay and benefits.

    I'd say zero pay raises this contract and employees take a $2.00 pay cut to $25.00

    Anyone with 15 years or under gets a enhanced 401k with company match dollar for dollar up to federal max which I think is $14-15K a year, right? This apply's also to any new employees. GM, will pay the pentalty when the employee wants to retire if it's before 59 1/2

    The pension benefits increments for those under 15 years can be bought out for a "X" sum of money or GM stock and GM maxes out a 401K for how many years the employee has been with the company to help off-set the finacial shock to the employees. This will help further reduce these long-term legacy costs.

    The UAW, will have to have more flexible work rules for all it's plants.

    In return GM, has to build "X" amount of modern plants here in the U.S. with these new work rules over a given number of years.

    I'd also ask from GM, profit shairing bonuses and maybe a larger discount/voucher on automobiles like at dealer costs which is 4-5% under invoice in hold back money. This would be like the old GM, discounts where instead of getting 12-15% off they would get more like 15-18% off like the "Option-1" plan of old. ;)

    That about covers it as yes the UAW, is getting hosed but it's not bad by my proposal. We will see how this thing turns out in the real world. Hopefully better than my proposal but hopefully saving GM, much needed money. I just don't want to see the UAW workers get hosed to bad as they are going to get nothing in return obviously and that is a hard fact to absorb. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The GM retirees in this area seem to be on very good retirement incomes. This is compared to the people who decided to let social security be a retirement plan instead of a subsidy, i.e., they saved nothing for their retirements because Uncle Sammy was supposed to give them the good life in their good old days.

    True imidazol97 (pal) ;) I do feel may people back in the day pal were paid so poorly or lost their jobs numerous times due to cut backs were never able to accumulate anything substantial to retire on. Sure in the 50's, 60's 70's jobs were pretty secure and a person would work at one place for 20-30 years and live the good-life in Florida, with full medical, pension. The 80's came along and through a wrench into those plans. What I'm saying is we can't blame put all the workers pal. Some got hosed in the 1980's and might of had 15 years in at a company like General Electric where pension was the main source off retirement and bam they close the plant even though it's very profitable to Maylasia, like Neutron Jack, did to memebers of my family. :mad: They left with nothing. 401K's weren't popular at all back then so they just didn't happen. Sure people saved some money and invested it but people even back in the 80's people didn't play the market as it was something rich people did. The information on investing just wasn't widely published like we have today. Times have changed.

    What kind of retirement income do the GM workers have who retired at the full term?

    Dad will get at his 30th year $3020 a month assuming no increases. He will have medical premium which he will have to pay like $720 or $730 a year on his 30th yr. assuming the contract for retirees stays the same. It's not a bad deal but not exactly eating steak every day either. My Step-mom is included on that $720-$730 figure to stay on his health insurance. A single employee pays something like $350 a yr. I think.

    It looks like they do very well.

    They do okay if everything is paid for. If the employee has a spouse bringing in a retirement income or is still currently making some money you can live comfortable.

    Perhaps they need to pay a part of their healthcare costs like most other retirees from companies are having to do.

    As I explained they do.....I really don't know that many retirees that pay for a portion of their insurance. I do know some that have high co-pays and some deductibles but high monthly premiums I don't know many. My current retirement plan at my employer is if you elected the pension plan you would be approx $200 in the hole because of health insurance premiums until you reached medicare/medicaid. We are fighting to change that this contract. ;)

    For social security retirees with no other plans involved Medicare/Medicaid (I confuse the two) is picking up the tab--that's US taxpayers.

    That's a benefit to society that GM, delivers as it's employees do not cost you a nickel as they and the company pay their own way. ;)

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    What kind of retirement income do the GM workers have who retired at the full term?

    Dad will get at his 30th year $3020 a month assuming no increases. He will have medical premium which he will have to pay like $720 or $730 a year on his 30th yr. assuming the contract for retirees stays the same. It's not a bad deal but not exactly eating steak every day either. My Step-mom is included on that $720-$730 figure to stay on his health insurance. A single employee pays something like $350 a yr. I think.

    And when they hit true retirement age they get pretty much full Social Security since they had great incomes during the working years.

    Your retirement income may not seem like a heck of a lot of money but if they did any savings over the working years and/or paid off their house they should be doing pretty well. Housing is a big part and I feel every working person should aim to have no payments when they retire.

    When we built out last house (the one we plan to live in until we get carried out of) we did a 15 year loan so that when my wife retires we drop the payment. Of course by then the property taxes will be more than our payment.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    401K's weren't popular at all back then so they just didn't happen. Sure people saved some money and invested it but people even back in the 80's people didn't play the market as it was something rich people did.

    Somewhat true. I started working out of college in 81. A few years later I started an IRA or 401 or whatever at some minimum amount (ranges from 5-10%). 25 years later I have so much money saved I still cannot believe it.

    Then again you probably would have said I was rich! I was making over minimum wage.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    And when they hit true retirement age they get pretty much full Social Security since they had great incomes during the working years.

    But the pension drops a certain percentage when they are S.S. elegible (I believe) I think that's what grandpa told me?

    Your retirement income may not seem like a heck of a lot of money but if they did any savings over the working years and/or paid off their house they should be doing pretty well. Housing is a big part and I feel every working person should aim to have no payments when they retire.

    I 100% agree. It's at least better to have a car payment :P


    When we built out last house (the one we plan to live in until we get carried out of) we did a 15 year loan so that when my wife retires we drop the payment. Of course by then the property taxes will be more than our payment.

    Sounds like a good plan ;) How old are you 62' ? I hope you built a big garage so you can put your Jay Leno, like collection in it. :D

    Lemko, will have to build a gigantic garage to put all his Buicks and Cadillac's in when he retires. His Brougham and Park Avenue will probably still be running ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You are rich, we all know that. :P Sounds like a good deed on your part pal. So how long until your are able to retire. Do you have a collection of 60's Corvettes you have not told me about ?

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Maybe the Edmunds reviewers should read what the owners say about their vehicles right here on Edmunds. How come the owners love them and the reviewer hates it?

    Not that I would ever say the Sostice/Sky is perfect. Absolutely right about storage space but hopefully every buyer knew that before they bought it.

    I like the "The brakes are equally capable, yet lifeless". I have tested cars professionally for many years but I cannot figure out what "lifeless" is for brakes. Perhaps they let you die when you brake?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Good question. I personally love the Pontiac Soltice GXP, but I don't think I'd be very comfortable in one as I'm a larger than average guy.

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I am 48 and retired. Well, at least I am a stay at home dad for a few years. Yes I built a 4 car garage (only 3 doors). I guess many would say I am rich but that is only because I had a good Engineering career(with typical income), saved a lot, made good choices with housing (and did almost all improvements myself). Also married someone who also was a professional that is doing very well now.

    BUT lets stop now and not go the truck route!!!!!

    Oh yea, just one that I am slowly restoring.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    WOW retired at 48 :)

    You will have to show me pics of your restoration project one of these days :)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,745
    >The second generation Aurora was put on the shorter wheelbase G-body.

    I'm confused (short trip). Did you mean the 2nd gen Aurora was on H-body or G-body. Maybe a quick review... sts, Aurora, Park A, LeSabre bodies for me? I know my 03 LeSabre is G-body which was same as STS.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The G-body had varying wheelbase lengths. The first generation Aurora and Riviera, as well as the 97 Park Avenue, used the longer wheelbase, about 114 inches. The 98 Seville G-body used the shorter 112 inch wheelbase, as did the G-body Bonneville, LeSabre and 2nd generation Aurora. The G-body DeVille was a 115 inch wheelbase. The current Lucerne-DTS G-body is nearly a 116 inch wheelbase.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I cannot figure out what "lifeless" is for brakes.

    Sounds to me like the notorious GM sponge pedal.

    The Solstice seems okay for what it is, and if I were willing to buy new I'd give it a try. Being "okay" is the Solsty's dilemma: the Miata is significantly lighter, the S2000 is a full-blown track car, the Z4 and Boxster can be quicker and have German cachet. It's really more of a Sunday afternoon cruiser, but it has a body style that leads to more aggressive expectations.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,745
    >They don't seem to like it. Biased? Maybe.

    As an example of the attitude about GM cars read the following about the DTS. Five paragraphs of biased drivel. Imagine their writing similarly about the ole' folks driving Lexus models I see around here.

    >Maybe the Edmunds reviewers should read what the owners say about their vehicles right here on Edmunds. How come the owners love them and the reviewer hates it?

    Article:
    The 2007 Cadillac DTS is 17 feet long. Yet somehow it is so easy to overlook.

    When was the last time you noticed one? The full-size 2007 DTS is also the Cadillac that's habitually marginalized by the automotive press as a holdover, old-school Caddy driven only by very old men who smell strongly of medicinal salves or livery-service drivers who smell strongly of Drakkar Noir.

    Certainly there is some truth to these stereotypes.

    Assuming it wasn't a taxi, the last car that picked you up at the airport probably was either a Lincoln Town Car or a Cadillac DTS. It was black. And it smelled. And the only privately owned DTS that you've seen that wasn't being driven by an old man with lumbago was painted Mary-Kay pink.

    (Incidentally, for the 2007 model year, Cadillac has modified the pink paint it uses on the Mary Kay DTS. "Mary Kay V is making everyone forget Mary Kay IV," says one Cadillac official. "Mary Kay IV is so 2006.")

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Hey, Drakkar Noir is my favorite cologne, I'd buy a DTS in a New York second and I'm only 41. Sorry, no medicinal salves or medications as I'm in perfect health!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Which one is it? The first picture or the second picture? The first one looks like the current car with a Lucerne grille. The second car looks substantially different and it the one I like.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The car went to market half baked.
    Loren

    P.S.
    Please add roll bar
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Should read, " will get a $1,300 tax break at the expense of other tax payers, as part of a lobby groups efforts to sell hybrid cars." Will likely get hit with another tax to take care of disposal of dead batteries some day - whoopee.

    Loren
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    As an example of the attitude about GM cars read the following about the DTS. Five paragraphs of biased drivel. Imagine their writing similarly about the ole' folks driving Lexus models I see around here.

    Have to lighten up. Have read road tests about "silver" haired ladies driving Lexus cars in car magazines. Seems like there is balance.

    Read the whole article in Edmunds on DTS. Just what is biased? Later paragraphs gave their impressions of ride, handling brakes along with some measured data. Didn't they report relevant info? The overall report seemed fair. Have Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend tested this car and what did they find? Were there glaring differences with Edmunds or mostly concurrence?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The first teaser shot. the 2nd is someones photo shop with new headlamps, which ain't gonna happen.
  • jbl8jbl8 Member Posts: 40
    Yes, I want them to succeed too. But the pricing of GM is not clear. For example, I want to trade in my Honda Pilot for GMC Acadia. I can get Pilot's bottom line price easily, $26K for EXL 4WD. But for GMC Acadia, who knows, with all the options etc.?

    Given dealer's bad reputation, It is important for customers not to feel cheated. Price it right and CLEARLY, the car will go. I got a V6 Accord for $20K. When I was at the dealer, I noticed that the car was on dealer lot for only 15 days! Another same one, only for 2 days.

    GM, you can do better, if you are honest.

    :cry:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    " very limited income?" Now that is all relative I guess. What would you consider limited income? Limited income for those retired outside of the car industry, I may buy into. But those jobs in the car industry were no poorman's endeavor. People that worked at the plants, I am sure will admit is was good pay, and I am sure have some of the best benefits in America. Most jobs in America give you a gold watch at retirement, perhaps a little money, and swift kick in the butt so you get out of the way :P First, auto industry jobs paid some two to three times those of other basic jobs. Second, they have some retirement and health package, while you may or may not have something from other employers.

    If I was working there, I would be careful not to strike, as GM has some leverage this time around. They could easily go the bankruptcy route.

    Loren
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The edmunds review of the DTS was completely off base and full of useless information. Please dont try to defend it. They suggested that Cadillac was making a car that no one wanted but its Cadillac's best selling car and 2nd best selling vehicle. They also failed to mention that full size cars are not old news since the Avalon, 300 and Lucerne are all competent large sedans.
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