By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Again, it sort of like comparing tread wear numbers of different brands or offset crash ratings between SUVs and sedans - Warranty Week says it's really not a good indicator trying to compare the warranty numbers between two car companies.
Whether they are trending down or not, they are still twice as much as Honda and Toyota. Look at this other article linked from the main page and there is a clear correlation between these costs and quality.
The site doesn't suggest GM cars are unreliable, just offers strong evidence based on papers filed by the manufactures and customers that the Japanese automakers are still ahead in terms of quality.
As for the Toyota example, I would welcome that argument if there were some evidence of it. From personal experience, I test-drove a Saturn Outlook with 500 miles on the odometer, with a whirring noise coming from behind the dash, jiggling volume control buttons and a malfunctioning lid for the compartment atop the dash.
We had loved the car on the paper, and even tried to dismiss the buttons/lid malfunctions as customer abuse during test-drives, but the noise coming from behind the panel was just too much.
Whether other industries have worse numbers than GM, I think GM should make a big deal of it if it ever were to enter those markets.
Now back to scheduled programing....
L
I wouldn't call it funny, probably poor judgment by the dealer to let customers test-drive the car. It was an intermittent noise, coming and going for 20 seconds every 10 minutes or so. I don't know whether modern cars still use cables to twist the needles in the instruments, but that's what it sounded like.
We were driving around Washington D.C last night and people were stopping us all the time to ask what it was.
Speaking of poor judgment, you are driving around Washington D.C in the middle of the night and stopping to answer questions from strangers?
Which cars are you saying are great? Is that the Corvette? The CTS is very good. Other than Corvette, which are great?
Just curious,
L
Mine is stuck on due to a problem on one of my cars. Before that it never came on. With it on now, it is 3 times louder than the engine at idle. Without it on, it would have to be a calm day to listen out the drivers window and hear the engine idling.
My friend had to get the little compartment cover repaired on his 2005 Accord and they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
What is a jiggling radio button? Does the radio button dance to the music?
Oh, DC is definitely like that...you just have to know where to look.
They didn't dance to the music, but rather to the road surfaces. There was noticeable travel before they would do anything.
Again, other than the whirring noise from behind the dash (which would be impossible to tolerate on a daily basis,) I must assume the other problems were caused by abuse from other people.
As a coincidence I have a 2005 Accord. To my disappointment, quality has not been stellar. With 15000 miles, the internal handle for trunk release stopped working (a loose hook fixed during the next oil change...in the first visit to the dealer :-)
If we are going to compare Accords to Outlook, we can look into the execution of individual parts. Slam the door on both and listen. In the Accord, there is a solid thud. In the Outlook there is a slight shiver unbecoming of a 5000lb vehicle.
And when you climb into third row, there is no flooring panel beneath the carpet between the tracks of the reclined 2nd row seats.
I believe the housing slump has a lot to do with this, but the Tundra sales are still climbing so I don't write that off as a coincidence either.
Send an email to the address in my profile. If you have a side-by-side I may be able to help with the noises. I just did trouble-shooting and reengineering on mine; it's about 7 years old just before the changes started happening at Maytag for deterorating quality (like at Toyota).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Plus Toyota seems to be aggressive with incentives to move Tundras.
I'm sure gas prices don't help either.
Even when towing and being heavily loaded in my Suburban, I've towed some up some serious grades in 100+ degree heat w/o the temp gauge rising one bit. Now the cooling fan is another story. Mine is not electric, but it it is on a clutch. When it's 90+ outside along with towing my boat, it sounds like I'm inside a wind tunnel. Only noticeable when at higher rpm, such as, pulling up a hill and having to run in a lower gear and/or accelerating. When it's cooler outside I don't hear it much.
Sounds like they're starting to build appliances these days like they build cars. Sure, they're better in many ways than what came before, but once things start to go, you're better off just replacing, rather than repairing.
My grandparents got a new refrigerator in 1969, the year they remodeled their kitchen. It was an N-something...either Norcold or Norge. Ugly green thing that you had to defrost yourself. It was still running fine though, when they got new appliances in 1994. It went out in the garage, where it replaced this old yellow 50's thing that had the old style latch door where kids could lock themselves in. In fact, it was still running in 2004 when I replaced it with one of my old refrigerators! It was ugly, but still worked fine!
In contrast, I've had two refrigerators die on me. One was a 1982 or so model that my Mom gave me when she got a new one. Crapped out in 2002. The other was a 1989 fridge that was in my condo when I bought it in 1994. I remodeled the condo before I sold it, so I brought the fridge with me to use as a spare. Just crapped out this summer, at the ripe old age of 18. Oh, and I think it was a Japanese import, because it was actually RUSTING! :P But then, the fit and finish was pretty sloppy, and the orange peel was pretty noticable, so perhaps the domestics had a hand in it, too. :surprise:
The first frige my wife and I purchased after we got married in '96 was a GE Profile top freezer model. I thought it was dying last year as it ran all the time and wasn't keeping food cold. After we purchased the Maytag, I figured out what was wrong with the GE. The inside light wasn't turning off. Well boys, I put that old frige in the garage and purchased a kegerator kit. Now it's the beer fridge with a keg on tap 24/7. Is it 5 o'clock yet?
Back to our regularly scheduled program..... With the updated powertrains in the new Taurus, Malibu, Accord etc. is GM going to offer the 3.6 6speed in the Impala? Or are they just going to wait for a replacement model?
My main beef was the gas mileage, but people buying a vehicle that size aren't expecting 30 mpg.
Seems to me that it wouldn't be a hard thing to do, since that engine's already offered in the LaCrosse. But then, wiht the introduction of the new Malibu, I can see the Impala sort of going the way of mainly a fleet type car. Taxi companies, police departments, or people that just want a fairly big, inexpensive car. Sort of Chevy's version of a Crown Vic. Or a 1980's Diplomat/Gran Fury.
I wonder if putting that engine in the Impala would steal some thunder from the Malibu? It might be best to just leave the Impala as-is, until it's time to replace it.
When will GM come out with a Cobalt upgrade or replacement that will be number one?
Funny thing is, the Cobalt and Ion are actually on the same platform! I remember when the Ion first came out though, it pretty much got slammed from the get-go. The Cobalt seemed to garner much better press, even if it is considered an also-ran by now.
I live near a guy with a Pristine AMC wagon (with the fuax wood paneling) and an Immaculate Rambler Ambassador. I bet he would disagree with that list!
L
Loren
Maybe you should still buy one. It might be worth something in a few decades. Kind of like an Edsel.
Even at thousands under invoice, a late 2005 model will fetch less than $10K as a trade-in, that is, if it is not one of those bright yellow eye-sores that can turn onlookers into stone.
Wonder why people did not buy a Matador? Not a bad looking car. Wish I had an AMX right now, in mint condition. Those are a rare find. Heck, even the Javelin. GM was right on the mark with the first Camaro. We need not talk about the Mustangs Pinto era, though it actually is not bad looking at all -- pretty much Pony car looking. Guess things sort of peaked in '67 Mustang looks, though in a way the '69 had some interesting lines to it. Size matters, and Mustang got fat. Oh wait, the New Camaro dimensions :surprise: , don't ask, don't tell. Sorry, but this is not your father's Camaro, nor mine. Please, keep width and tall doors on Hummers.
ramblin' on.... L
There is a white late model Aztec (without all the awful black cladding) at the apartment building where I drop my youngest off for day-care. It does not look too bad. It looks more similar to my Outlook than I would care to admit.
I saw one of the Subaru sports cars yesterday. Now they were pretty neat looking cars. Ferrari looking, compared to the WRX
L
I don't put much stock in lists such as this...if I recall correctly, Business Week included the 1977 Chevrolet Caprice on a list of all-time terrible cars, which is complete nonsense.
The Chevette wasn't a bad car...just a very average one. It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad, either. Just basic, reliable transportation - nothing more, nothing less.
Both Corvairs were widely admired for their styling, and even the 1960-63 models were about 90 percent there. GM needed to sweat a few more details to get the car right, but the basics were there.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
no cr-v is doesn't stand for california redemption value - i asked.
Just as significant, the Ridgeline seemed just as new at 40,000 miles as it did when it actually was new—no squeaks, no rattles, no loose trim pieces, no mechanical idiosyncrasies, with the feel of something carved from a single chunk of billet.
L
I think the Matador just got old and wasn't adequately updated as the years rolled on. IIRC, that design first came out in 1967. Rambler/AMC didn't have the money to field a separate full-size and mid-size lineup, so they came up with one basic design and offered it in different lengths. The bigger models were Ambassadors and the smaller ones were Rebels, which were renamed Matador for 1971.
They sold tolerably in the earlier years, but AMC just didn't have the resources to redesign their cars every few years. About all they could muster was a heavy facelift. And back then, the styles changed quickly. For 1968, Mopar and GM intermediates were new. I don't know if the Mercury/Ford intermediates were all-new, but they were heavily revised from the 1966-67 style.
Then, in 1970, the Ford intermediates were heavily redesigned again. I still don't think it was all-new, though. Chrysler fielded new intermediates for 1971, then for 1972, Ford redesigned theirs (and this time it WAS all new, going from unitized to body-on-frame). GM's new midsizers came out for 1973, the last to be designed in that "big on the outside, small on the inside...heavy, posh, and thirsty" idiom.
So by 1974, the AMC products were looking pretty tired. To top it all off, they blew way too much money designing the goofy, frog-eyed Matador coupe. Supposedly it was pretty slick, designed with NASCAR in mind, but it was a huge flop. The Matador went to an awkward "coffin nose" look.
By 1974, the fuel crisis was in full swing, and bigger cars just never were AMC's strong point to begin with. So that, plus the awkward styling, really sunk them. I think 1974 was also the Amabassador's last year, so it was Matador-only from then on out.
In 1976, the Aspen/Volare came onto the scene, and showed that a compact car could serve as good or better than many midsized cars on the market (when it wasn't rusting or stalling out). And then in 1977, the radically downsized Chevy Caprice and its siblings instantly made every old-school midsized car on the market obsolete.
The Matador was dropped after 1978, and by that time I think they were mainly purchased by gov't agencies, police departments, etc. They were just too outdated and thirsty for most buyers by that time.
I don't think they were particularly bad cars, although finding parts could be annoying. Especially when the transmission came from Chrysler the wheels came from Ford, God-knows what else came from GM, etc!
I think most Impalas came with the 283 from 1959 through the 60's, although the 327 was a popular option. By around 1967 or 1968, a 307 replaced the 283 as the base V-8. The cars themselves were getting heavier by this time, so the 327 was probably more popular. For the 1971 redesign, the cars were so heavy that the 350 was the standard V-8. You could get an inline-6, but you really didn't want 110 hp in a 4000+ pound car, so it was rarely ordered.
When they were downsized for 1977, I think there were initially three engine choices...250 6-cyl, 305 V-8, 350 V-8. There was a 267/4.4 V-8, but I don't think it was offered until a few years later. Most common engine by this time was most likely the 305, as buyers in the late 70's probably thought a 350 was too much of a guzzler. It was dropped after 1979, except for in police cars.
A 229 V-6 became the standard engine for 1980, replacing the inline 6. For 1985, that engine was increased to 262 CID (the 4.3). At some point, you could get the 350 again, maybe in 1991? It was a 185 hp TBI version. Not much more hp than the 305's 170, but a lot torquier. I think eventually the 4.3 V-6 was dropped and the 305 V-8 made standard.
In 1994, they changed the engines again. The 305 was dropped, and a new 4.3 V-8 was introduced. This caused a lot of confusion, because most people remember the 4.3 V-6 as well. The 4.3 V-8 had 200 hp, but these cars were pretty heavy, so it still felt underpowered. Meanwhile, the 350 got boosted to a healthy 260 hp. This was standard in the Impala SS, Roadmaster, and Fleetwood, as well as the Caprice wagon. And optional in the Caprice. The 4.3 was limited to the Caprice sedan, and was dropped when the B-body was ditched, after 1996. As for the 350, it lasted a few more years in cars and trucks. It was eventually replaced in trucks by the 4.8/5.3/6.0 engines. The Camaro used the 350 until its end. The Corvette went to a 6.0 or something like that.
As for the 396, it first came out in 1965 I think, to replace the 409. It was an all-new big block engine, whereas the famous 409 was actually derived from an old 1950's truck motor. My Dad had a 1965 Impala SS with a 396...425 hp version. It would probably be worth something today, but back then it was just an old car. It threw a rod late one night on a lonely back road, in 1970 or 1971 I guess, and he just abandoned it there!
In those days though, the Impala SS was just a dress-up package. If you wanted a big engine, you had to order that separate. Some Impala SS'es had the 6-cyl! The ones to have though, from what I've heard, are the 425 hp versions of the 409 and 396.
The 396 itself was enlarged slightly to 402 CID around 1970, and I think it went away after 1972.