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That chase actually looks pretty tame by today's standards, but when you figure it was all done for real, without the help of CGI, miniatures, etc, and probably on a shoestring budget compared to today's productions, I'd say it's pretty impressive!
The stable grew over the years. When my wife and I tied the knot in '81 there were 7 in the driveway:
-'70 Trans Am (RA III, 4 speed);
-'74 Trans Am (400, automatic);
-'73 Grand Am 2 dr. (400, automatic);
-'68 GTO (400, 4 speed);
-'67 GTO (400, automatic, full option car);
-'67 GTO (column automatic, non-push button AM radio - talk about a stripper);
and last but not least
-'67 2+2 (428 HO, 4 speed), the car of our first date.
The '70 was sold the next year to provide funds for the down-payment on our first house. Damn, that hurt like hell at the time but was the best $4000 we ever spent. The rest were sold off over the next 5 years.
It was nice while it lasted. Thanks for the memories....
Throughout most of its life, Pontiac was considered a mid-price brand. A step up from Chevrolet and Ford, but not at the level of refinement and panache as Buick or Cadillac.
So, to Berri's point, where in this model do the current car companies fit?
If you think of an entry-level mid-size, thoughts go to the G6, Malibu (before its current reinvention), KIA Optima, and Hyundai Sonota.
My point - Pontiac's fate (as is the case with Olds) isn't necessarily set by the other GM brands. As Chevrolet and Ford have been driven upscale in an attempt to compete with HonToyNis, they and the Japanese brands have become the mid-priced brands, with Hyundai/Kia (and potentially other Chinese competitors) filling in the value-brand pricing on the low end. So, the real question is, what is GM doing about this?
Unfortunately, with their delayed reaction time, it appears that axing a good number of their brands is the answer.
Montage of chase scenes is incomplete without greatest car chase of all time - Steve McQueen in 67-68 Mustang fastback in Bullitt. McQueen's own personna, his character Bullitt and plot of movie all contributed to excellence of overall movie and chase. Interesting twist, and great plot, had bad guys in black Charger chasing McQueen, than losing him, then bad guy driver looks in rear-view mirror and suddenly finds that now McQueen is chasing him/them.
Most movies with chases in later decades after Bullitt were purely for "Spectacle" and poorly tied into plot. Actors(?) such as Diesel and their movies are less than one star compared to mostly 4-star McQueen.
Oh yeah, there are definitely better chase scenes than those depicted from that article. The article was just meant to be Pontiac-specific.
I just watched that Bullit chase again on Youtube. Realistically, all the dude in the Charger had to do was throw it into reverse and smack the Mustang. McQueen would've ended up with a 390 in his lap, or at least, a busted radiator, and the Charger would've driven off, probably with little more than green paint on its rear bumper. Still, that doesn't make for a very exciting chase sequence.
Even that chase doesn't seem all that exciting by today's standards. But again, it was done totally without CGI or miniatures. And even that little trick of speeding up the film to make them look like they're going faster was kept to a minimum. So for that, it was very impressive.
Plus, up until this time, I'd imagine it was the most intensive chase scene ever filmed for a movie. A couple of other chase scenes that came out a few years later were in the movies "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry" and "Race the Devil". Race the Devil involved a brand-new 30-foot Vogue motorhome and several big trucks, which must have been quite a logistical feat for the time.
There was also a Roger Corman movie from around 1974 called "Moving Violation". Very low-budget movie. The biggest star I can remember in it was the dude that played Grandpa in "The Waltons". For its low budget though, it had some fairly impressive crashes. In fact, I think some of them might have served as inspiration for "Smokey and the Bandit". For instance, there was a scene where a police car ran under a truck, losing its roof. And another scene where an airbag-equipped Oldsmobile copcar (seriously, how many police jurisdictions used Delta 88 and 98 hardtops :confuse: ) wrecks, setting off the airbag. The difference was that in Moving Violation, the airbags actually deployed! In that movie, the car ran into a concrete wall, setting it off. In "Smokey and the Bandit", their Olds ran into a '77 LeMans, and wasn't enough to deploy the airbags. A few years later though, that car was wrecked in a crash test video, and that time the airbags deployed.
Wangers "shrewdly crafted the brand’s edgy, high-performance image."
Look at milquetoast names of popular foreign brand cars in America: Accord, Camry, Civic, Corolla, Altima, Versa. Those are "wimp" names. The wizards at GM Pontiac gave us G6, G5, G8, G3. But maybe, maybe those in command of naming at Pontiac realized that in current decade, nothing they offered except G8 deserved any of those hallowed names of the past. Maybe G8 could have been Trans Am with 4 doors, but only with a V8.
Chevrolet GM still makes sense with its model names: Impala, Malibu, Camaro, Corvette, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado. Forget Aveo and Traverse names.
Wasn't it Wangers that tricked up a 64 GTO and it somehow ended up at Car and Driver to test against a Ferrari model? C and D then dutifully tested both on track, drag strip and guess what? GTO beat Ferrari. How could that be.
Maybe 0-60, but performance also includes stopping and turning, and 60-120. As for straight line performance, the old saying, "there's no substitute for cubic inches" applies.
Maybe 0-60, but performance also includes stopping and turning, and 60-120. As for straight line performance, the old saying, "there's no substitute for cubic inches" applies.
It didn't. What ended up happening was on the day of that test, where they wanted to put a Pontiac GTO against a Ferrari GTO, at the last minute they substituted a Catalina 2+2 with a 421 V-8. It was also factory prepped, really hopped up, and much more engine than what you would get if you just went down to your Pontiac dealer and bought a 421 off the lot. They got a 0-60 time of 3.9 seconds out of the car somehow, but don't expect to repeat that!
The 1965 GTO came with a 389-4bbl that had 325 hp, and that's how the vast majority of them were equipped. I think I've seen tests of them that put them at 0-60 in around 7.5 seconds with the 4-speed stick. I forget how much hp the tri-power setup had. For some reason 333 is sticking in my mind. Of course, I'm sure there were plenty of tricks to hop up these cars up, but off the showroom floor, in stock form, around 7.5 seconds.
I think I actually have that old Motortrend or C&D, where they did the GTO comparo. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.
Most GM engines are rough and noisy. NVH is their biggest problem when compared to the competition. Especially the Asian competition.
You realize you just said that in a car forum right? :shades:
You have a person willing to purchase a vehicle, but is getting the run around
Just goes to show how much GM really wants people's business...especially when it involves them actually having to pay OUT. I estimate between now and May 30th, a lot of those points are simply going to disappear somehow...if they don't, they count as a liability.
I think it shows the total disconnect from reality at GM. They could say "we would be glad to give you those credits". "What car dealer would you like us to post them with".
GM should be in Bankruptcy liquidation instead of on tax payer life support. They have so little to offer the consumer product wise and even less from a customer service level. :sick:
Saturn Blazed Ahead of Its Time, Then Faded Into Oblivion (AutoObserver)
It all depends on who he can partner with to supply the cars. I'm sure GM can supply cars for a couple more years. Penske has such an extensive reach into the auto industry that he could pull this off.
This made me LOL:
The G3 is pretty much the LeMans for the 21st century. It's a Korean-engineered vehicle built in Mexico and sold in the US. It's still fuel efficient, and, more importantly, it's still not in tune with Pontiac's performance brand messaging. Oh, and it's also a total badge engineering job on an uncompetitive car (the Chevy Aveo5), and GM reportedly already has a two-year backlog of the little stinkers
I wonder what GM will do with all the G3s it will still, I am sure, have failed to sell two years from now after every Pontiac dealer has closed up shop. Donate them to charity perhaps? If I had a charity, I think I might refuse them!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Solstice as a design came too late to cast halo. G8 way, way, way to late to save Pontiac. My 2 cents, the glory years for Pontiac were approx 1955 to 1971. After 71, maybe a few good Trans Ams in the 70's - SD455 and the Bandit's iteration. After that, all Trans Ams (Firebirds) and Camaros kept getting fatter and uglier. The very last gen were cartoonish.
Looking back, Pontiac should have been the performance/excitement division of GM given their offerings and desirability of 50's-60's. With GM supposed resources, Pontiac should have offered BMW performance/image over last 4 decades. Was never going to be given the incredible lack of vision and incompetence of Management in last 4 decades at GM.
Will they screw up their only remaining gold-plated names - Chevrolet, Cadillac?
Don't forget, we have some very inexpensive cars available now, and perhaps more coming on the market in the next two years.
If I choose Accent or Versa, I get decent resale and with Hyundai a 100K-mile warranty. If I choose G3 I get absolute zero resale because my car's brand is defunct (and Aveos have little resale to begin with) and a warranty that will have to be serviced at a Chevy dealer who might not be too thrilled about it. And being backed by the "full faith" of the GM corporation doesn't hold too much water right now either.
Actually my original question was rhetorical - I know where they will go. You can expect to see every G3 they have built to date in the rental fleets by summer as their new $19.95 special. What a waste of resources and energy.
But over the last two decades, that's where more than half of all Pontiacs built have gone - to the fleets. When I remember Pontiac, it is mostly going to be as the quintessential rental brand.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Alas, it's been going on longer than two decades, I'm a'feared...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It can be painful sometimes though, when those memories are still fresh. I get a reminder of Pontiac's heyday every time I get behind the wheel of my '67 Catalina convertible. And even though Pontiac was stumbling by the time my '76 LeMans was born, there's still a little magic left. My '69 Bonneville was a cool car too...at least for that occasional moment after it fired up without frying a starter and before it would overheat or stall out.
The original Monkeemobile based on a 1967 Pontiac GTO.
For 1984 though, Pontiac roared back to around 700,000 units, and a lot of that was based on the buzz around the Fiero, which got a lot of people into the showrooms. Now doubt an improved economy helped as well, but Pontiac was definitely on the rebound. IIRC, the Fiero alone accounted for around 100-120K sales.
Now soon after that, the Fiero probably started giving Pontiac a bad reputation, as the cars broke down, caught on fire, and did other bad things. So maybe they helped save it and kill it, all at once.
Regards,
Dale
Or; Let Chevrolet build all the sedans, GMC build all of the trucks, Saturn all of the HyBrid/electric cars, Cadillac all of the Luxury cars, Pontiac builds all of the Performance cars, including Corvette. Buick would have to go because it's entire line was a duplicate anyway.
But they did what they did and I will bet that they will continue to build duplicates of particular models under several brands, thus they will still be competing with themselves more than the other makers like Toyota and Ford.
* My only ownership experience was with a '79 Sunbird (2.5L "Iron Duke" 4-cyl, 4 speed manual). Bought used in CA in the spring of 1982 for $3850 with 11K on the clock. No A/C, vinyl seats -- a year after purchase, I moved to Phoenix for college. Had to buy seat covers pronto. Was involved in a couple accidents while there, the first of which I think contributed to ongoing mechanical maladies (heater core, motor mounts, transmission issues). Was totaled after second accident - received $2K in settlement.
* The family of my best friend as a kid owned a mid 60's Le Mans. Was a washed out blue color - no idea of engine. It got traded in for a new '76 Chevette (ouch!)
* A good friend of my mom's owned a '68 Firebird. I think it had a 350, but, again, not a terribly special car. That got traded in for a '78 Camaro (double ouch!)
* My aunt and uncle moved to CA from PA in 1978 - at the time, they owned one of the large 70's Pontiac wagons, towing a 22' travel trailer. Both my cousins learned to drive in it. Got traded in for a used late 70's Suburban.
* A buddy of mine in college bought one of the new ('83 or '84?) Firebirds. Red, grey interior, 4-cyl with stick. Nice car, but poorly packaged. No rear seat room, no storage space under the hatch. Still a sporty ride, for the era.
I've also rented a number of Pontiacs when I traveled for business ('89 through '03) - nothing really distinguished them from anything else I rented during that time period.
While I guess I won't miss Pontiac too much when it goes away, there are a couple of current models I wouldn't mine owning - the Vibe GT and G8 GT.
MEAN looking, in a fast way. A real beauty.
And now it really makes me want to vomit that ANYONE running GM in the 80s thought it appropriate to name that pile of Korean garbage a Lemans.......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yeah, that pretty much pissed me off right from the get-go. That car probably wasn't fit to wear the T1000 or Astre name, let alone LeMans!
Pontiac styling definitely had some magic to it back in the 1960's. Even the more basic, low-level cars still seemed like something special. Aggressive and sporty looking...if not necessarily sporty-handling!
Even Pontiac's station wagons had a sporty flair to them. Dig this '67 Pontiac wagon!
Pontiac, and other American brands in late 50's and 60's, had excitement and "soul". Then, from early 70's to recently, Pontiac and other American brands were mostly about building appliances, and unreliable ones at that.
I keep thinking what could have been If Pontiac/GM might of had top mgmt guys over the years with mindset similar to that at Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes where "refinement" and "continuous improvement" are key elements of the business model. What we got instead from Pontiac was junk - T1000 clone of Chevette, Sunbird clone of awful Cavalier, Aztek, Korean Lemans, vinyl cladded/boy racer type cars, etc. Disgusting. MBA clasess for decades to come could do studies on how a brand was built up to great image and sales in 60's and then driven into the ground and finally killed off by decades of continuous mismanagement.
LeMans!!! :shades:
:lemon: lemon :lemon:
It's a 1981, and was definitely a low point. I think the biggest engine you could get in a LeMans that year was a Pontiac 301, and then only in the wagon. I think coupes and sedans only offered the Buick 231 and 252 V-6, and the Pontiac 265 V-8. Oh, and probably the Olds Diesel. :lemon:
Still, considering what a year 1981 was, I don't think it's a bad car. I like the way they went back to quad headlights that year, after ditching them for '78-80. And I like the slicked-back front-end. Supposedly, the car did well in NASCAR racing because of that nose. It was definitely a mere shell of its glory years by this time, but by 1981, EVERY car was a shell of its glory years!
My Mom came close to buying a 1980 LeMans. She had a '75 before that, and wanted to stay with Pontiac. However, she ended up with a 1980 Malibu instead. Same car, but probably about $150 less, but back then that was enough to be the deciding factor.