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  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,590
    Law firm in Canada has a lawsuit that claims various Buick, Chev, Olds and Pontiac V-6 engines from 1995 to 2003 have intake manifold gaskets that degrade prematurely and allow coolant to leak into the engine. GM used plastics and nylon to make the gaskets. This could cause the engine to overheat and seize. Cost to repair is about $3,000 per car. In the U.S. the battle has been going on for awhile.
    My question is...if your engine seized up because of a faulty gasket, and cost $3,000 to repair, how likely are you to buy another GM car? What happened to fixing your car or any product so it works properly, and maybe you will buy another one or recommend it to others?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Law firm in Canada has a lawsuit that claims various Buick, Chev, Olds and Pontiac V-6 engines from 1995 to 2003 have intake manifold gaskets that degrade prematurely and allow coolant to leak into the engine.

    Oh, that can't be. GM's 3.8 is the best v6 in the world;)

    My question is...if your engine seized up because of a faulty gasket, and cost $3,000 to repair, how likely are you to buy another GM car?

    I can answer that only by saying if I liked the car otherwise, and GM had other vehicles I liked I would still consider purchasing another.

    I've been pretty vocal about the problems I've had with my suburban, which have cost me quite a bit of $. If I need another SUV when it's time for another, I will keep a Suburban on the top of my list. I will look at others, but that goes for all my purchases. I never just run to a certain manufacturer.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    They spend $4000 extra to save $75 per year in fuel!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I wonder if anything like this lawsuit will happen in the US. My dad had that happen to a '00 Park Ave somewhere around 60-70k miles, can't remember exactly.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My girlfriend was 38 when she bought her Buick LaCrosse last year. I'm going to be 41 in May and have been thinking about a new Lucerne CXS. I currently drive a 1988 Buick Park Avenue.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm proud to be seen in GM's:

    Buick LaCrosse
    Buick Lucerne
    Cadillac DTS
    Cadillac CTS
    Cadillac STS
    Cadillac XLR
    Chevrolet Impala
    Chevrolet Corvette
    Pontiac Grand Prix
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Just out of curiosity is there anyone under 65 who has recently bought or is thinking about buying a new Buick?

    I recently turned 36, and I'd actually consider a Buick Lucerne. I like its styling, interior layout and roominess, and reasonable fuel economy. However, I dunno if I'd buy a brand-new one. I'd probably wait until I found a nicely-priced used one.

    Back in late 2003 my Dad bought a used '03 Regal LS and put my name on the title so that if he passed away it wouldn't have to go through probate. So technically, does that make me a Buick owner right now? :P
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Have you driven a Buick lately? No soft seats and soft ride in the old american way there. Seats are not rock hard but firm and comfortable. Ride is not floaty soft like old american land cruisers but controlled without impact harshness. The CXS versions even give more control but you do get a bit more harshness. Of course there are those who do like the Acura TL impact harshness over tar strips ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Yes it does! Welcome to the group. Now they can't make the disrespectful comments about everyone owning a Buick being a blue-hair! ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I thought there was a difference in suspension between the two lower models also. Am I wrong?

    The CXS has the electronically-controlled struts which should be excellent for control. I seemed GM had engineered suspension vs. cost for the three lines to keep the historic GM 3800 leSabre buyer happy as well as forge into new (for the last couple decades at least) powerful Buick arena.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    May be right on Lucerne.

    LaCrosse has 2 suspensions. One for 16"/3800 and one for 17"/3.6.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,590
    It is going on right now in the U.S. That is why the Canadian one started up. Of course GM is fighting it. I don't hear too many class action lawsuits against Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW. What's going on?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,590
    Thank you for your replies. I think it does answer my question in that I think there is a market for cars that get you from point A to point B with maximum room and comfort....if soft seats and soft ride are what you are looking for. I guess if there is interest in these cars there is some hope for GM.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    there has always been a firmer suspension option for most Buicks. It's just that in the past, most Buick buyers simply did not care for it. On RWD cars there used to be something called the F41 or whatever, which gave you a rear sway bar, improved handling, and firmed up the ride a bit.

    Also, I vaguely remember reading that the Roadmaster, at least once it went LT-1 for 1994, had a pretty firm suspension setup. It may have looked geriatric, or pimpy depending on your mindset, but I read that it was actually set up firmer than the Caprice.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    It is all there in the test data. Simply read the data. Go to crashtest.com and look at the two.

    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I think not. They are older people WITH the money buying the Hybrid Honda or better yet the IMPRESSIVE Prius, to sport to the fellow class of friends and neighbors. It is all about the bragging rights, and to show you really are up to date on the latest product to save the World.

    Actually, it is great in respect to gas saving for say an SUV, which normally is a gas hog. The SUV is not something for sports handling, unless the Porsche, and thus is a great candidate for the hybrids. For point A to B, it makes perfect sense to replace the gas sucking, boring tanks on wheels SUVs with a better power unit.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Andre, I 27 and still haven't ruled out a Buick Lucerne as my next ride. When I was about 20 I came very darn close to buying a used 98' Buick Rivera Supercharged. If I could find a good used one relatively cheap and in good condition I'd also consider it for a work car. Hell I'll just buy lemko's 88' Park Avenue and put another 300,000 miles on it. :blush:

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I bought an expensive Olds 98 Regency new. That is something the foolish do once in life. It was entirely my idiotic choice, and I bear full responsibility for what was of course the inevitable result. A car with more problems, driven a few years, and losing 2/3 of its value. Never again. If you want a Buick, be sure to wait one to two years so you feel a little less pain. I guess the Lucerne is a bit tighter handling than a boat Buick. I really have not tested one out. They look OK, and the interior looks upscale now. But really, a 197HP old 3.8 engine? Been there, done that. Given the price, I would say the buyers are gonna hurt big time in a year or less. The V8, if bought a couple years later may render less pain. Good luck!
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I know a Kia Optima, is so damn luxurious compared to BIG 3 Vehicles :confuse:

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Of course not, some have gray hair :D

    I owned a luxo GM car back when I was in my 30's.
    I am younger now ;) in my 50's. If I was looking for
    a sedan in luxo, I guess a two year old GM luxo is a
    possible on the list. Would prefer a CTS in the Caddy
    line to the FWD though.
    -Loren
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    When I was about 20 I came very darn close to buying a used 98' Buick Rivera Supercharged.

    Rocky, on the day I bought my Intrepid, I was originally planning on driving out to a local dealership that had a '95 Riviera, supercharged, with about 70,000 miles on it for something like $9995. However, that day my uncle needed me to give him a ride to his dealer to get his truck out of servicing. While we were there, we decided to look at the cars on the lot, and before I knew it my uncle had lent me $2K for a down payment and I was signing my life away for the next 5 years!

    Sometimes I wonder how I would have liked that Riviera, and whether I would have bought it or not. I've heard that the supercharger often has to be replaced around the 100,000 mile mark, and it's about $1000. But other than that, I don't think they really had any specific trouble spots.

    Right now, another local dealer has a '94 Roadmaster, which has the LT-1, for something like $3500. The kicker is that it has something like 133,000 miles on it. I'm kinda tempted to go look at it though.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My '88 Park Ave will do another 300K too! I took it out to Harrisburg this weekend to a wet, soggy Carlisle Spring Meet. I had the cruise control set for 65 MPH and the gas gauge needle barely budged!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Have you driven a Buick lately? No soft seats and soft ride in the old american way there. Seats are not rock hard but firm and comfortable. Ride is not floaty soft like old american land cruisers but controlled without impact harshness. The CXS versions even give more control but you do get a bit more harshness. Of course there are those who do like the Acura TL impact harshness over tar strips

    I'm assuming you've driven both cars pal ?

    Do you really think the Magnaride in the CXS is that taunt ? :surprise: The Acura TL does have a comfortable taunt ride for sure, but I will still take the fastest suspension in the world over it. :) I could only wish right that the next CTS or high-powered Saab 9-5, would get it s a option. :shades:

    I like your comparo pal, but I do think the TL' suspension wasn't perhaps the best choice for a comparo. The last generation Cadillac Seville STS,
    (My former ride and currently LEMKO's ride ;)) is the closest thang :D. If some of ya'll never drove in a car with a magnaride suspension, "YOU GET IT ALL" Don'tcha Lemko ? ;) Lemko and other former and current drivers, can back up my claim. You get a solid firm ride when you wanna do some high speed triple digit grand toring. It's a blast to hold the Northstars pedal to the floor to see 155 mph on a wide open West Texas, highway and the suspension just dazzels you with stability and control. Magna-steer is also rock solid at those speeds. :D

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Rocky, you should hunt down a nice 2000 Catera with the sport package. Same power-to-weight ratio as the V6 Lucerne, nice Euro-style interior, RWD, and it will cost you about $20,000 less.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Given the price, I would say the buyers are gonna hurt big time in a year or less.

    Yeah, those 33 mpg 3800s aren't going to be much in demand pulling a full-sized car that doesn't bounce on every tar stripe like the Accord imitator. Gas prices will be $2 per gallon again?

    We know you don't like GM and use every chance for sarcasm and ridicule...

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...maybe GM was smart for keeping the fuel-thrify 3.8 V-6 around. People don't care if it's OHV, OHC, DOHC, a flathead or has sleeve valves if it provides good MPG in these troubled times.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Rivera 95-99' are really nice cars. My grandma had a 95' and I used to drive it to school sometimes over my Bonneville, just for bragging rights. :D I'll never forget the time when my grandma was driving and my uncle and aunt and I, all went out to eat in Holland, Mi. and this guy was playing games of trying to speed my grandma and ticking her off in his Camry. Grandma finally got mad and said some 4-letter words and punched the Supercharged 3.8's pedal to the floor while we all started laughing and 125 mph went bye. "I go grandma, what are you doing" ? She said that foreign SOB kept tail gaiting me and wanted to race, so I gave him one. This car can squat, and I just out squatted him with my muscle. :D

    We all just kept laughing. :blush:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    bumpy, good suggestion but their are some flaws to those cars pal. They are very expensive to repair and the maintence costs off set the price savings. I also never cared for the wimpy V-6 they had. The styling is indeed very nice though and if you got a really realy good deal on one I suppose it might be worth risking the repair money for one due to the cost savings.

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    What part of reality don't you understand? Oh well, it ain't my money, so I really don't care if you want to throw it away. Helps the economy when people spend; even foolishly. Good luck on your resale.

    I kinda liking the CTS if one could be found used, at the right price, and I really like the Corvettes. Test drove a used Monte and it was cheap at $12,995, as a one year old rental return, but I decided to buy a new car instead. Seemed like decent car in a way. Not a really modern car, but it has its own charm as a throw-back to the era of big two door American cars. In its own way interesting.

    Do I like GM? Good question. As a whole, not too much, though they have their moments. And I really liked their products in 1968 and 1969 -- real beauties. Current product is hit or miss, with mostly miss. And priced too high for content. Will consider the CTS and Vette, and even some of the new stuff, if they are deep discounted as in used half off in a couple years.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Indeed the 3.8 has and always will be a gem of a motor. The other great V-6 engines are the 3.5 V-6 "shortstar" and the new 3.6 "High Feature" V-6. The Saab Turbo 2.8 V-6 is currently regarded as one of the top 10 best engines according to Wards.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    GM Engines Named Among the Best

    Wards Auto has named two General Motor’s engines among the best in the industry. “GM makes serious inroads into the affordable performance market with its thrilling 2L supercharged DOHC I-4 used in the Cobalt SS performance coupe,” said Bill Visnic, Ward’s senior technical editor. “Thanks to supercharging and intelligent design, GM engineers squeeze more than 100 hp per liter from their 4-cyl. dynamo, while achieving an impressive 23/29 EPA city/highway fuel economy rating.”

    Two of General Motors newest, high-performance overhead cam engines – the 2.0-liter Ecotec Supercharged and 2.8-liter V6 Turbo – have been named among the industry’s 10 best engines of 2006 by the editors at Ward’s Communications.

    Both engines are variants from two of GM’s most popular global, modular engine families, designed, engineered, and produced around the world. They also share a similar attribute, which Ward’s noted as an important development occurring in the industry today: forced induction.

    “Turbocharging and supercharging allow us to develop big-displacement-like engine performance, while maintaining the efficiency benefits from a small displacement engine,” said Sam Winegarden, GM Powertrain executive director of engine engineering. “We’re pleased that the editors at Ward’s recognize our expertise in developing these efficient, high-performance engines.

    Supercharged Ecotec

    “GM makes serious inroads into the affordable performance market with its thrilling 2L supercharged DOHC I-4 used in the Cobalt SS performance coupe,” said Bill Visnic, Ward’s senior technical editor. “Thanks to supercharging and intelligent design, GM engineers squeeze more than 100 hp per liter from their 4-cyl. dynamo, while achieving an impressive 23/29 EPA city/highway fuel economy rating.”

    The Ecotec 2.0L supercharged is a variant of GM’s global Ecotec family, which features an aluminum block, inline four-cylinder, dual overhead cam, four-valve-per-cylinder engine design. At the heart of the Ecotec supercharged is an Eaton M62 helical roots-type supercharger. Maximum supercharger boost pressure is 12 pounds, and the system includes an air-to-water intercooler to increase intake-charge density, which in turn enhances power and reduces a supercharged engine’s propensity to “knock” at high boost levels.

    The Ecotec supercharged also received upgraded components in critical stress areas, thanks to experience in the tortuous crucible of the National Hot Rod Association’s Championship Drag Racing series – where the Ecotec has developed a “bullet-proof” reputation as a formidable powerplant for front-wheel drive dragsters.

    Available in either the 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged or the Saturn ION Red Line, the Ecotec SC slams out a formidable 205 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 200 lb.-ft. of torque at 4400 rpm.

    It is built exclusively at GM Powertrain’s Kaiserslautern, Germany, engine plant.

    2.8L V6 Turbo

    “A sophisticated mid-displacement V-6 and turbocharging are a remarkably effective combination,” says Visnic. “GM and Saab have created an impressive performance-car engine with high specific output and the thrill of turbocharging.”

    The 2.8L V6 Turbo is the newest addition to GM’s contemporary global V-6 engine family. All engines in the global V-6 family share traits that include a 60-degree lightweight aluminum cylinder block with iron cylinder sleeves, an aluminum structural oil pan and aluminum cylinder heads, dual overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder. The 2.8L V-6 Turbo builds on those strengths with components and technology developed with Saab specifically for the turbo system, variable valve timing, and a variable fuel pressure system to ensure smooth idle and driving characteristics.

    The 2.8 turbo system features a unique, twin-scroll turbocharger. It has an integral bypass valve and is fed by two exhaust ducts – one from each cylinder bank. Separating the exhaust gas pulses with two compressor zones improves gas flow and reduces energy loss. The turbo system’s charge cooler promotes performance by reducing the temperature of inlet air.

    Delivering 250 horsepower at 5500 rpm and 258 lb-ft of torque from 1800 – 4500 rpm, the 2.8 V6 Turbo is standard globally in all 2006 Saab 9-3 Aero models, which includes the Sport Sedan, SportCombi and Convertible. It is also featured in Europe in the Opel Vectra and Cadillac BLS.

    The 2.8L V-6 Turbo is built at Holden’s Port Melbourne, Australia global V-6 engine facility.

    Source: General Motors
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Indeed the 3.8 has and always will be a gem of a motor.

    Mehh, the 3.8 is only a "gem" compared to the horde of dumpy, miscegnated engines that preceded it. I'd rank the 3800 below the old stovebolt I6. The Shortstar is decent, but being a chop-block it has to take its place below the HF series.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well the 3.8 will go down in history as being one of the best engines of all time. GM's rocket powered 3.3 doesn't have the 3.8's recognition, but perhaps someday it will be atleast a honarable mention, along with GM's DOHC 3.4 which was a good reliable engine with guts and fuel efficiency. ;)

    Rocky
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    from what I've heard those DOHC 3.4's were pretty troublesome. They gave good acceleration and great passing power, but they tended to break alot, and were expensive to fix. Part of the problem may have been that it wasn't a new design from the ground up. It was the old Chevy 2.8/3.1/3.4 60-degree pushrod design, with a DOHC setup grafted on.

    Once GM finally got the non-supercharged 3.8 up to around 200 hp, it ended up replacing the 3.4 DOHC in every application. It provided similar 0-60 times, but I think gave up a bit in the quarter mile, and definitely wasn't as good in those 30-50 and 50-70 mph passing tests the buff rags do.

    Personally, I wouldn't be ashamed of driving a car with a 3800 in it. But I wouldn't pay a premium for it!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    celica8,

    We agree 100%

    Tiger, could easily sell butt loads of Velites for GM. All of us Tiger
    Woods fans would want em'.

    The perfect Buick Velite Convertible would be exactly like the concept.
    I'd use the 3.6 "High Feature" V-6 with 400-450 horsepower. The Buick
    Grand National had the 450 hp. version of the 3.6 HF-TT so that's why I
    said 450 hp.
    I'd also keep the 6-speed auto with the F-1 Paddle shifters. i'd keep the
    interior out of the concept, but would include a Premium Navigation
    System. I'd also use the Voice Recognition Technology from the STS which
    includes functions for the Audio, Climate, Bluetooth, Navigation, and
    perhaps lowering windows and maybe even the hard top to dazzle friends.
    The current remotes can do most of the functions depending on how many
    clicks of the button. This car also would have Air Conditioned seats along
    with heated seats. I woud also want a 5.1-7.1 DVD-Audio Surround Sound
    System that will shatter my ear drums. I also would want a magna-ride
    suspension to give me a great combo of firm and cushy ride comfort. The
    Velite wouldn't be a BMW on the track, but rather like a Lexus SC
    convertible which also is a high speed grand touring convertible.

    I'd push the Cadillac XLR further upmarket to $80K and it would get over
    500-600 hp. and would feature a Rear Active Steer System, Voice mic for
    the remote that can control various fuctions before the driver gets to the
    car, and other gadgets I haven't listed to distiguish the two.

    My buisness strategy I know would work for GM.

    Rocky

    P.S.

    The Tiger Woods version for "X" amount of money would include 2 sets of
    fitted Golf Clubs made by Nike, 2 Buick Bags with Velite embroidered on
    them, 2 Tiger Woods TW caps with Velite embroidered on the back, 2 Buick
    club scrubbers, 2 Nike Towels that are attached to the bag, 2 Nike golf
    gloves, and if it will fit 2 Buick Golf Bag Holder Mounts for the trunk
    and/or rear seats with Velcro Straps, and of course Nike- Buick Golf Balls.

    Geeez, I'm not bragging but shouldn't I be hired as the guy who's in
    charge of this project ?

    Tell me what ya'll think, especially you Celica8 ?

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0a1947/9

    Here's the main Edmunds Insideline link.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/.ee9202c/

    This is where your fans and foes post daily.
    I hope GM will bring General Managers or some other officials such as Lutz
    and Wagoner if he had time to do live chats with us fans that actually buy
    the majority of the vehicles. "Middle Class"

    Perhaps GM doesn't realize just how much impact these big-wigs have on
    fans, and potential future customers.

    Thanx,

    Rocky

    Dumas, Tx
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Trying to recruit one of the Big-Wigs from GM to come on and do a live chat with us. ;) I know many of you wouldn't want to miss it and could fire off questions about product and the future of GM. :blush:

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well NASCAR ain't what it use to be. Nothing like days when rear wheel drive cars were indeed in the hands of the driving public. Sure they were race cars. But those race cars were much closer to stock cars, as in what we drove on the streets. Todays racing looks more like an LA traffic jam, only at 180 MPH, or so.

    Hard to say who the best driver is today, though I would say that Tony Stewart does come to mind. Great performance last week, as an example of how a real driver shines. You name it, he has raced in it and won. As for Dale Jr. he does seem to be a likable sort. He makes good commercials, and drives OK. But then again, there are many good drivers. Even the old boys, like Mark Martin. Heck, he is almost as old as I am!

    Will Kevin Harvick be the next Dale Ernhart for Childress Racing? Someone on TV has said so. Personally, I see Tony as the Intimidator. Someone focused on the race, driving and not wanting to talk politics, and chit-chat with the press after every incident on the track. Some years back, I was really impressed with a young driver by the name of Jeff Gordon. He too can drive about anything and win. Well not everything, but ya know what I mean. He won a lot of races in different classes of cars in his youth.

    Best years still go to those of Richard Petty, the King, and the years prior to his career.

    Today, the Monte Carlos still win on Sunday, but they don't sell them on Monday.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Today, the Monte Carlos still win on Sunday, but they don't sell them on Monday.

    I agree with ya Loren, it's ashame. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Delphi, union talks collapse

    Negotiations break down over the company's plan to slash wages, jobs as IUE grows more militant.

    Talks between bankrupt Delphi Corp. and its second-largest labor union have broken down over the auto supplier's plan to drastically cut wages and slash thousands of factory jobs through early retirement offers.

    Officials with the IUE-CWA, which represents 8,500 Delphi workers, halted negotiations late last week when "it became clear they weren't making any progress," said IUE spokeswoman Lauren Asplen.

    The standstill comes two weeks before U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain considers a Delphi motion to begin dismantling its union contracts, absent concessions by the unions.

    The situation highlights growing tensions between Delphi and the International Union of Electronic Workers-Communications Workers of America, which has plotted a more militant course in dealings with Delphi than the United Auto Workers, the supplier's largest union with 24,000 members.

    It may push the union closer to a strike that would have disastrous effects on the U.S. auto industry, but particularly on General Motors Corp., Delphi's largest customer.

    But while the IUE may be frustrated at being treated as an afterthought, a strike is still a long shot, said Kevin Reale, industry analyst with AMR Research.

    "I don't think you'll see an organized strike, but you could see wildcats," he said, referring to unsanctioned work stoppages at select plants.

    IUE members recently voted to authorize its leaders to call a strike at Delphi whenever they see fit. The UAW has not taken a strike vote at Delphi plants.

    The IUE's leaders also have been more outspoken than their UAW counterparts in criticizing Delphi for using bankruptcy as a tool to cut wages and jobs.

    Delphi, which filed for Chapter 11 in October, has laid plans to close or sell 21 of its 29 U.S. plants and jettison more than two-thirds of its 33,000 hourly workers as part of its reorganization. Five of eight factories represented by the IUE are slated to go.

    Winning approval from its unions to cut wages and eliminate jobs through buyouts is crucial to Delphi's turnaround plan.

    A collapse in talks with the IUE could throw a wrench in Delphi's goal to emerge from bankruptcy by next year.

    Talks have stalled over concerns about a Delphi proposal that would lower worker pay from about $27 an hour to $16.50 by next year, Asplen said. IUE leaders also worry how a far-reaching buyout program, already agreed to by the UAW, will affect Delphi's five other unions. "There's no way what would work for the UAW would work for us," she said.

    In March, the UAW accepted a landmark deal to let General Motors Corp. offer buyouts and early retirement incentives to its 113,000 U.S. hourly workers as part of a plan to cut 30,000 jobs by 2008.

    Under the agreement, Delphi -- a GM unit that was spun off in 1999 -- was allowed to offer 13,000 buyouts to its UAW workers and send 5,000 of the union's workers back to GM. The company offered buyouts to UAW workers nearing retirement age this month

    In a court filing, Delphi said it planned to offer buyouts to 4,000 workers represented by the IUE and Steelworkers. The filing was made "in anticipation of reaching an agreement" with the unions, said Delphi spokesman Lindsey Williams.

    While he confirmed no agreement has been reached, Williams disputed claims that talks have broken down. "I can't tell you what they're talking about," he said. "But I can tell you they're talking."

    IUE leaders were in Detroit on Tuesday to discuss legal issues related to a May hearing to consider Delphi's motion to reject its union contracts, Asplen said. Nothing about the buyout program or wage concessions was scheduled to be discussed.

    Henry Reichard, chairman of IUE's Automotive Conference Board, could not be reached for comment.

    IUE workers at Delphi factories say they are being kept in the dark about where negotiations stand. And some are growing more skeptical.

    "The union guys are saying they don't know anything," said Gene Collins, a worker at a Delphi plant in Dayton, Ohio. "I find that hard to believe."

    Rocky
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,590
    This is in summary what Edmunds says about the Lucerne;

    With fewer features and weaker performance than either Toyota's Avalon or Hyundai's Azera, the 2006 Buick Lucerne is outmatched among full-size sedans. If all you want is a roomy, quiet car with a V8, it's worth a look, but most buyers will be better served by its more capable competitors.

    And that is the problem!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bhomesincbhomesinc Member Posts: 1
    How do you get to the turn signal switch . My turn signals do not click back (off) after a turn. First the left went out now the right is also out. I was told you need to replace the springs in the column. Do you need any special tools for this work.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well Edmunds staffers are obviously blinde :shades:. The Toy-tinament isn't even in the same ball park as the Lucerne as far as features and technology goes. The Hyundai Azera when compared to the Buick Lucerne, is a laughing joke. It's a VCR on Wheels, a pile of sewage. :mad:

    I also want to make another thing very clear driver100 !!!!

    They took a stripped down Buick Lucerne CXL, and compared it against the top trim levels of both the Azera and Avalon. I wasn't real happy with Edmunds
    "fair and balanced" reporting. Like Fox News that wasn't very fair. :sick:

    Rocky
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    At the Washington,DC Auto Show in January, the Azera especially and the Avalon were shown to big crowds. The Buick Lucerne (complete with portholes!!!) hardly had anybody interested. Hyundai is still adding dealers in the US, Toyotas dealer network is very strong, it will be interesting to see how many of each model sells in 2006. Not that I am saying that people buying the Lucerne won't be happy drivers, but at least around here, Azera and Avalon buyers would not consider any Ford/GM car, let alone a big Buick.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    The Buick CXL is not the stripped down version, thats actually the top of the line version with the northstar V8.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245

    They took a stripped down Buick Lucerne CXL, and compared it against the top trim levels of both the Azera and Avalon. I wasn't real happy with Edmunds
    "fair and balanced" reporting.

    The Buick CXL is not the stripped down version, thats actually the top of the line version with the northstar V8.


    A GM apologist will never let facts clout his/her judgment.
    Can't think of anything more embarassing than a Buick's premier sedan being outclassed by a "VCR on wheels"
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    LOL...!!!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It is (CXL)? :surprise: ....So I'm wrong ? Geeze I've only been following General Motors since I could walk, talk, breathe, and I don't know the car line-ups like the back of my hand ? :D

    This guy ME, MYSELF and I knows General Motors about as well as anyone, especially when it comes down to product. My nickname by my co-workers is GM which stands for General Motors !!!! :P

    Click here:
    http://www.buick.com/lucerne/index.jsp

    Then get back to me and see if the CXL is Top Dog ;)

    Thanx,

    Rocky
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    And the average age of the VW GTI owner is 37...

    Not bad, not bad at all!

    :shades:
This discussion has been closed.