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Comments
I think with gas moving back towards $3.50 you'll see crossover sales recover a little and they won't be any worse than the overall industry sales decline.
Guess we'll see tomorrow.
I understand the differences but walking into a Ford/Merc/Lincoln store and seeing the Edge, MKX, Flex, and Taurus X all sitting there sure looks like redundancy to me. All use the same powertrain and all get about the same mileage. The Flex strikes me as the answer to a question no one was asking.
Are you talking about a Lincoln Town Car or a real water going vessel? Speaking of TCs, I agree with Nv that Lincoln needs a suitable replacement. This is quite unscientific but I was struck with all of the TC owners who attended the MKS previews in my area recently. I don't think many were too impressed with the MKS, either.
I know Lincoln wants to expand their buyer demographic but there are still some loyal buyers out there that would buy a updated TC in a heartbeat. I wonder if a "Classic Ride Package" option (softer suspension tuning) for the MKS would appeal to them. It is sort of disappointing, also, that the MKS has less room in the back seat than a Taurus. Too bad they didn't stretch the wheelbase on the MKS like they did the Flex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Airflow"
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Airflow
Chrysler built a wind tunnel at the Highland Park site, and tested at least 50 scale models by April 1930. Their engineers found that then-current two-box automobile design was so aerodynamically inefficient, that it was actually more efficient turned around backwards. Applying what they had learned about shape, the engineers also began looking into ways that a car could be built, which also used monocoque (unibody) construction to both strengthen the construction (the strengthening was used in a publicity reel [1]) of the car while reducing its overall weight, and thus increasing the power-to-weight ratio as the lighter, more streamlined body allowed air to flow around it instead of being caught through upright forms, such as radiator grilles, headlights and windshields.
"Nash Motors introduced this type of construction in 1941 with the new 600, generally credited with being the first popular mass-produced unibody construction automobile made in the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocoque
My dad bought a new 1947 unibody Nash 600 which I later bought and drove for about 10 years. It was a very good car.
Are you talking about a Lincoln Town Car or a real water going vessel?"
The MKS is just going to be a real tough sell I think. As you've noticed, classic Lincoln buyers dont react well to it. Aside - Imagine what their reaction might have been to nice rendition of the Continental Concept? I'll bet those would fly off the shelf to TC owners. Gas crisis or no. Certainly LS owners are not the demographic for the MKS as we know. Current import owners switching to Lincoln? Yeah, right. Mercury owners moving up to Lincoln? Where is the MKS an upgrade from the Sable except in price? Most people still dont know what the hell an LS is, and it was competitive with the best sports sedans. I think in a couple of years, very few will have heard of the MKS. The only thing it has going for it is that it's stylish and attractive. People will notice them on the street. People never really took notice of the LS. Except on the track when my times smoked em :P
Engine, suspension, sound insulation, exterior styling, leather, interior, wheels, keyless start, hidden keyless entry, selectshift, automatic cruise control, THX II sound system...........I think that's enough. For once Lincoln did NOT do a rebadge job.
Funny, yesterday my new MT came with a first drive of the MKS. They like it. Mostly. Liked the interior lots and front design. Rest of exterior so-so esp rear. Amazingly, they loved the "large and usable" trunk. And, to nvbanker, they said it has "more backseat room than most E-class/5-Series cars." They drove only the AWD model and recommend 19" wheels as best compromise. They peg Acura RL, Lexus GS, Volvo S80 and Caddy CTS as competitors. I await a comparo.
All in all it was positive, but not glowing. "Not a world beater but class-competitive" they said. To sum-up they said "Is Lincoln back? Too early to tell."
AS to previous discussion, I had another thought about TC owners: Who they gonna call? I mean, who makes or will be making TC/GM type cars? America's chief car designer, Nancy Pelosi, doesnt like them. But many many senior drivers do. Now their last hope of staying in this type of vehicle is fading. Seems to me that Lincoln is treating those customers the same way they did we LS enthusiasts. Basically saying Sayonara, suckers.
Lincoln is still in trouble. Not much new on their horizon. The MKT will be out in a year. Even though it is polarizing in a completely different way from the Flex, it will be interesting to see where crossover sales are at by then. I suspect it will draw former Navigator owners who were using their Navs more for show rather than tow, and it could compete with the Lexus crossover. Other than that, you have slightly facelifted MKX and MKZ coming. That won't generate a big increase in showroom traffic. I hope a revitalized Mercury will generate some sales. My gosh, how did this company get so far in the hole that maybe 2012 will finally see most of the mediocre models and other drek gone?
It wasn't easy - it took several years of stupid decisions and ineffectual management starting around 2001. If only Fields, Mulally, Kuzak and Farley could have been in charge back then............
You already know where the MKS will rank in the minds of the enthusiast press. Among the cars listed, the S80 and MKS will be fighting over last place. The MKS will be the slowest of this group, will lack the engine refinement of the Acura and Lexus, not ride as well as the Lexus, and not handle as well as the Acura. The STS is the proper Caddy to compare - not the CTS. Either way, the Caddy will be ranked ahead of the MKS but behind the Acura and GS. There you have it - no need to wait for a comparo. :P
MAYBE when ecoBoost arrives there'll be hope?
I really think so. Other than the V-series Caddies, the Ecoboost MKS should run with or outrun the others on the list. I think the AWD with the right tires will be a good handler, too. Combine that with quietness, technology, and decent FE, and you will have a contender.
I have never driven a car that an extra 50-100 HP wouldn't make better! The MKS suspension is enthusiast-oriented enough to handle it when equipped with AWD. Frankly, I think the suspension is a bit too firm for a "soft-luxury" car. The ecoboost version is supposed to get paddle-shifters to control the transmission, too.
Well, there you go, that knocks the MKS off my list then, because I want a larger car than a 5er. Guess I'll stay with the Lexus for another year and see if that rumored MKR gets any traction (pun intended) and take it from there. Meantime, I'm not suffering...... but I'm pulling for Ford & Lincoln to make yet another comeback.....
Hyundai Genesis
The current MKS is a real paradox, IMO. It is really too big to compete with the usual mid-level luxury benchmarks but the engine is too mundane to compete with the big boys. It is too firmly suspended and not roomy enough to attract TC or DTS owners but too slow to attract the harder core enthusiast.
It is almost as though they were trying to please everyone and really didn't knock the socks off anyone! Bring on the Ecoboost, clean up a few loose ends here and there, and then I might go for it.
Yes - the one thing about Jaguar that Hasn't changed since their sale to TATA.
BTW, I have compared used Audi A8s and Jaguar XJs. Not much difference at all. If you pay $70 or 80K for a car, it is going to be worth substantially less in one year, and less than half at three years. The Jag has better reliability than Audi now, so it is not a bad choice.
Well, there you go, that knocks the MKS off my list then, because I want a larger car than a 5er.
Isn't the MKS larger than a 5er? Size wise, I think it would handily outcompete the RL and CTS. Haven't run any numbers, though.
Standard 7 series - 37.2"
Long WB 7 series - 43.4
5 Series - 36"
MKS - 38.6"
The MKS platform mate, the Taurus, has 41.2" of rear seat leg room. Maybe the seats in the MKS are thicker or the rear bulk head takes up a bit of space. I just think it is odd that the Taurus has more interior volume and rear seat room than an MKS. No matter how you cut it, though, the MKS is a far larger car than the RL, CTS, or ES 350.
Thank you for the info. :shades:
Which competitors have 300hp?
It does look small until you park it next to one of the above.
Where is Ford taking Lincoln is the question. I think they need to let Mercury have the MKZ and the SUV's and let Lincoln develop as a truly separate luxury line starting with the MKS.
Three Ford dealerships in a 4 county SMSA here just closed this week. Ford needs to have one dealer per area that handles Ford, Mercury and Lincoln. Then they can truly diversify their offerings and let Lincoln move back up to the luxury level - if it can.
That would be hard to do, and may be near impossible to do given dealer obligations. I think an easier, and just as effective solution would be to kill Mercury and offer Volvo to the Lincoln dealers instead, as another line they can carry. Make a Volvo/Lincoln dealership if you will. Course, that is IF they don't sell Volvo in the efforts to save Ford.
This is so sad, to see these once giant manufacturing companies on their knees like this, despite the reasons why.
GM did it when it eliminated Oldsmobile, so it can be done. Locally, we are seeing GM dealerships with all makes in one location.
Of course, they could kill Mercury and combine Lincoln and Ford dealerships. Adding Volvo might work, but locally they are sold by "European" dealerships.
Understand Ford just took a hit when one of major stockholders sold out at a loss. Pity. BTW, my first car was a Ford and have a Ranger pick-up now.
1) Front Wheel Drive - not that there's anything wrong with that, it just relegates this car to Acura RL like status with me. You can't really feel much difference, the drive is excellent, torque steer is nearly non-existent, but we don't need traction here in the SouthWest, so FWD is wasted on us, and RWD is more desireable for superior handling.
2) The Six-Banger. It doesn't get any better mileage than my Lexus LS430 does, which has RWD and a V-8. Power is significantly less. Maybe the Eco-boost would fix that, but in present form, it's again, Acura RL like to me.
Now, the price difference between my Lexus and the MKS is huge, and for the money, the Lincoln is a darn nice car, and worth the price I think. Just not sure I want that cheap a car this time around, I guess. I need to go shop the RL and see how much difference there is between the RL and the MKS I guess.....
Anyway, it just seems that Lincoln is now trying to emulate Acura - which may not be a high enough target to put them back in the game, as Acura is not a big seller either.