My worst car ever!

lemko

...reading the story about the 1987 Oldsmobile Delta 88 with the interior door panel that came off when the driver pulled the door handle. Now, I don't know what was going on in the Oldsmobile plant, but my 1988 Buick Park Avene has many large, heavy screws holding that door panel as well as a constellation of yellow plastic fasteners along the perimeter. I'm convinced that Buicks were made much better than Oldsmobiles in those dark days. Makes me happy I passed on that 1987 Delta 88 some salesman was trying to push me into 20 years ago and bought a solid 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic instead.

andre1969

is when some cars would give you a pull strap bolted or screwed, often very cheaply, to the door panel, but that would be it. No "conventional" pull built into the armrest.

My Grandma's '85 LeSabre had these pull straps, but they were anchored pretty firmly into the plood on the upper part of the door panel. And it also had the regular spot in the armrest to grab. I'm guessing this was because the cheaper LeSabres would have only had that spot, so they just left it for the Limited model with the pull strap.

My '79 New Yorker just has pull straps though, and they're not very sturdy. I can grab the armrest though, where the door handle is, and use that part to pull the door closed. If I have passengers in that car, I tell them not to use the pull straps, because they'll come off!

Lemko, doesn't your Park Ave have the big, sturdy, chrome pull handles? The ones that are flush with the door panel when you're not using them? A Delta 88, as well as a LeSabre from that generation, would most likely just have the cheaper pull strap. I'd imagine an Olds Ninety Eight would have a stronger handle.

lemko

Yeah, it has those chrome handles that retract flush into the door panel when not used. The screws that hold them are pretty hefty and about three inches long. My 1987 Caprice Classic had both the pull straps and the pull built into the armrest. I never used the pull straps.

andre1969

My '85 Silverado, which my grandparents bought new, has pull straps. They learned really quickly not to use them! The straps themselves held up until the passenger side one got pulled loose about a year ago, so I just took it off, but the little chrome plastic pieces that fit over the screws had broken off early on. I think all 4 of them are still in the glovebox, or behind the seat!

My '82 Cutlass had pull straps in addition to the pull in the armrest, as does my '76 LeMans. But with these cars, the strap is so far forward on the door that it's almost useless. I think my '86 Monte Carlo had a pull strap, but I don't remember.

stickguy

nice enough to drive, when it ran. There was a problem somewhere in the FI system (cold start sensor I think it ended up being) that caused it to flood when trying to start. Can't remember how many times it had to get towed and have the battary charged and plugs replaced.

Worst part was, I was away at college at the time. Thankfully I didn't need it to get around (or at all frankly), but it was a major pain, and expense.

Oh, and it was rusted out around the battary box (by the firewall, driver's side) so if you parked pointing uphill and it rained, you got a flood in the left rear footwell. One day it rained than got real cold, and I had a block of ice back there.

It also got crappy mileage (probably related to the FI issue) and only had a 10 gallon tank, so no range.

So, never buy a rare model, and '75 was the only year for FI so parts where super rare and expensive, plus in 1983 not many people knew how to deal with FI.

I was never happier than when I dumped that car, although a Buick dealer did finally fix the sensor problem, so at least it ran.

Much nicer to drive though than the collection of beater AMCs I also had in those days!

lemko

Speaking of AMCs, one of my college roommates had a white 1965 Rambler American with an inline six.

jrdwyer

We had the '88 Olds Delta 88. It went from 100K miles to 200K miles before our teenage daughter finally made it a scrapper.

On this car, the pull straps were designed to be used to shut the heavy doors instead of the hand slot in the armrest. But or course, most people who were riding in the car for the first time didn't know this and so the front door panels ended up braking. I ended up rigging the panels to keep them on. It's crazy that some GM model were just the opposite and the straps would fall off!

I have only owned 6 cars/trucks over 19 years (2 co-owned with wife) and interestingly, our current car has to be the worst from a mechanical standpoint. It is a 2001 Olds Silhouette which is basically the same as the other GM minivans.

I will not be as harsh as the previous Montana poster because we like the van and it has not left us stranded anywhere. Also, from a $/mile driven standpoint, it has been less expensive than the other new minivan alternatives that were available in 2001. That said, here is the list of non-typical problems over the first 5 years:

1. Intake manifold gaskets replaced.
2. Transmission rebuilt.
3. Cruise/turn stalk replaced.
4. Rear brake wheel cylinders replaced.
5. A/C condenser replaced (redesigned).
6. Radiator replaced.
7. Intake manifold gaskets set #2 replaced (redesigned).
8. A/C compressor replaced.

All were covered under warranty except for a small amount paid by us for the recent A/C compressor that was out of warranty by two months (GM good willed it).

So this is our worst car ever, but we still drive it and like it!

lemko

I dunno why GM insists on still building minivans. They are just wasting manpower and materials while destroying their reputation. Their heart just ain't into making a minivan. I know a girl who had a lot of trouble with her Montana minivan, but it was mostly her, (or her mechanic's) fault. She flushed out all the Dex-Cool and replaced it with the regular green stuff. The green stuff ate at the aluminum block filling all the cooling galleys with a thick metallic porridge thus causing the engine to constantly overheat.

andre1969

I dunno why GM insists on still building minivans. They are just wasting manpower and materials while destroying their reputation.

I heard that the main reason they're still building minivans is to keep the plant that makes them from going idle. Kinda like an automotive version of busy-work I guess. The thing that irritates me about the minivans is that the vehicle itself is so mediocre, but they're finally putting decent engines in them, like the 3.5 and 3.9. But then there's the Equinox/Torrent, which seems to be a fine vehicle but with one little Achilles heel...the ENGINE! The aging 3.4 is still used in these. What they should do is put the 3.5/3.9 in the Equinox/Torrent and just let the minivans stick it out with the 3.4.

She flushed out all the Dex-Cool and replaced it with the regular green stuff.

My uncle made the mistake of doing that about 3 years ago with his '97 Silverado. Luckily he told me what he did almost immediately after, so I was able to warn him that it would mess up his engine. He put DexCool back in right away. Hopefully it didn't do any permanent damage. Oh well, 3 years and holding! The 4.3 uses an iron block and I think an iron head as well, so maybe it's more resistant to damage than an aluminum block or head would be.

bumpy

The problem wasn't taking out the Dexcool. The problem was not taking out ALL of the Dexcool before putting in the regular aluminum-compatible antifreeze. Mixing the two together is bad. Very bad.

lemko

I'll tell you what - this makes me very paranoid about taking my car to any place besides the dealer for a coolant flush/refill. I wonder if this is what they had in mind all the time?

bumpy

Wouldn't surprise me. The easiest thing to do is simply leave the coolant alone unless it gives you problems, except that Dexcool is fingered as the culprit for all the intake manifold and head gasket problems GM has had in recent years. About the only sure solution is to install a new engine and put the good green stuff in it.

andre1969

I've heard that the biggest problem with Dexcool and other long-life coolants is that if you leave it in too long, it'll actually start to attack the engine. With the older green stuff, if you let it go past its expiration date, the coolant would lose its ability to do do its job, and you'd have to worry more about clogs in the tighter passages and corrosion, but it wouldn't start attacking and turn evil like the pink stuff does!

jlawrence01

I've heard that the biggest problem with Dexcool and other long-life coolants

I guess that I am in trouble. My Dexcool was in for 115k miles.

nvbanker

Makes me happy I passed on that 1987 Delta 88 some salesman was trying to push me into 20 years ago and bought a solid 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic instead.

Well, lemko - I'm in a position to give opinion (not that you asked,) on both cars. Lucky you!! I happened to own, an 87 LeSabre, and an 87 Olds 98. The next year, I got two 1988 Olds 88s the next year to replace them. None of them had weak door panels. However, I also had a 1985 Caprice, with the 4.3L 6 cylinder engine. Not a bad car, but no where near as efficient or nice as the Olds & Buicks. I thought a quantum leap had been made in auto-innovation with those Oldsmobuicks......

w9cw

Dexcool is an OAT coolant (Organic Acid Technology), and it has a poor record, including the aforementioned problems with GM 3.8L head gaskets, etc. The better technology in coolants is HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) which has been used in Europe for years. It's specifically designed to be very protective of aluminum and other alloys. Mercedes-Benz OEM coolant is HOAT, but interestingly, it's actually made for M-B by Valvoline. Valvoline Zerex G-05 formulation is exactly the same as the M-B spec OEM coolant. I've seen M-B engines torn down after 250K with no pitting of the aluminum, even with extended drain intervals. HOAT coolant is really an excellent product. Even using HOAT coolant, I still change out the coolant every 2 years or 24K, and only use distilled water as well. There's a lot of research supporting the use of distilled or demineralized water for use in cooling systems, especially with aluminum alloy parts.

The HOAT coolant is typically light-amber to yellow in color. And, the old "green stuff" that we Americans are so familiar with is IAT (Inorganic Acid Technology) coolant.

BTW . . . Honda was furious when GM specified Dexcool for use in the Honda 3.5L V6 engine in the Saturn Vue.

andre1969

I happened to own, an 87 LeSabre

My ex-wife's mother had a LeSabre, either an '87 or '88. I don't know how many miles were on it when she passed away (the mother, not the car), but I know it was well over 100K. She had gotten to the point financially that she couldn't afford a newer car so she HAD to make it last. I know it did start having problems as it got older, but AFAIK the engine and tranny never gave her any problems.

I actually kinda liked the car. I think my biggest issue was that, in my mind, it just wasn't full-sized. They were much more nimble than the RWD B-bodies, but in the early years at least, just tended to not be nearly as reliable. For the first few years, the 4-speed AOD transmission tended to be troublesome, and they were noted for having problems with trim pieces, interior parts and such breaking off. I don't remember anything falling off of my ex-MIL's car though.

To GM's credit, they did improve these cars quickly. I think in the first year of the FWD C-body, 1985, the RWD B's were actually a better bet. My 1985 Consumer Guide has tests of the 1985 Ninety-Eight, Electra, and Sedan DeVille, as well as tests of a V-8 LeSabre, Delta, and Parisienne, and a 4.3 Caprice. The V-8 B-bodies and the 3.8/4.1 C's (a 3.0 was actually standard in the Electra/98 that year) were about evenly matched in 0-60 (about 12 seconds) and fuel economy tended to be a draw...around 15-18 in their tests, regardless of EPA ratings. And believe it or not, the RWD B's, on a 116" wheelbase, actually had a TIGHTER turning circle than the FWD C's, on a nimble 110.8" wb!

I believe it was the following year, 1986, that the 3.8 got boosted from 125 hp to 150, and that made them quicker than a Caprice/Parisienne with the 165 hp 305. And I think it was 1988 or so when they finally got the kinks worked out of the 4-speed AOD, and fuel economy improved over the years.

For some reason, the Buick LeSabre started getting a solid reputation for reliability in the late 80's and early 90's, but the almost identical Olds 88 never got to bask in the same praise.

The only GM B-body I had from that era was a 1985 LeSabre Limited "Collectors Edition". It was a nice car. Solid, sturdy, comfortable, nicely appointed (except for an overdose of plood that didn't even try to look realistic, it just did interpretation!). It had an Olds 307 that was a good highway cruiser. Handling was okay I guess, but the 1979 Newport I had was much better in this regard. It was one of those cars that was actually faster than it felt, and interestingly, my 1985 Consumer Guide bears this out, saying the same thing. My biggest issue was that the transmission upshifted too early. It was noticeably quicker when I shifted it manually.

I think the replacement '86 LeSabre/88 would have made an awesome replacement for the midsized Cutlass Supreme sedan, and perhaps even the coupe. They were actually a few inches shorter. But as full-sized cars, they just didn't quite cut it. Interestingly though, while the Electra/98 rode the same 110.8" wheelbase as the LeSabre/88, the C-bodies had bigger back seats than the H-bods. When they were RWD, they had to put the Electra/98 on a longer 119" wheelbase to accomplish that, 3" longer than the LeSabre, Delta, Parisienne and Caprice.

andre1969

Wow, you sound pretty knowledgeable about these coolants! Is the pinkish-orange stuff that Mopar uses basically the same as GM's Dexcool? My Intrepid uses this stuff, and I had it changed back in August 2003, when the car had about 87,000 miles on it and I'd had it about 3 years and 9 months. The mechanic said that if I changed it early, I could get by without changing the hoses, whereas if I waited until 100,000 miles I should do everything.

He recommended that I change the coolant again, as well as the hoses, at 150,000 miles. However, my Intrepid doesn't rack up the miles nearly as quickly as it used to. As of November 6 it'll be 7 years, but now it only has about 124,000 miles. 150,000 miles is still probably at least two years off. I dunno if I want to try to make the original hoses last 9 years, so I'm thinking about having the coolant and hoses done in the spring.

It sure beats the hell out of the old days though, when you had to do the coolant AND hoses every 3 years/36,000 miles!

w9cw

Andre - the Mopar coolant is, I believe, HOAT coolant, and this makes sense as M-B has used this coolant for years. I know DCX is standardizing as much as possible throughout all car lines. It's not the same technology as Dexcool, however - thank goodness!

BTW . . . I have over 160K miles on a 1994 Dodge Grand Caravan ES, and have never experienced the "quite typical" head gasket problem with the 3.3L V6. Coolant is something most of us take for granted, but it's extremely important, as is frequent oil changes of course.

boomchek

My first car was an 82 Accord. I was so exited about getting my first car that I didn't care what I was going to get.

I picked it up for $300.

-It was a 4 door 82 Accord with about 200000km on the odo.

-The front fenders had 2 inches of wheel well missing from rust.

-The front windshield was replaced at home by previous owner and stuck on with some kind of tar.

-The dash had mould on it

-The muffler was hanging on with ropes

-The fuel filler neck was rusted through, and the previous owner stuck a green garden hose in there, so about 1/4 of fuel I filled up leaked out right away

-Each tire was different brand and size.

-The frame was so rusty that when I jacked it up the jack went through the floorboard

-When it was time for a smog test my dad tried to "help me out" by plugging some vacuum hoses: it made it worse

-One of my friends that had a slim jim tried to practice slim jimming, and he broke my driver's side door lock

-When I replaced the chrome trim on the windshield, I was driving on the highway and it blew off

-The muffler fell off in rush hour traffic, and the radiator hose popped at the same time

-Later the car wouldn't run unless on choke

-I sold it for the same amount I paid for it :sick:

nvbanker

Honda was furious when GM specified Dexcool for use in the Honda 3.5L V6 engine in the Saturn Vue.

As well they should be. Nothing plugs up a radiator like DexCool......

gagrice

I could not find any resolution to your complaint. Is this still ongoing after almost 10 years?

kyfdx

You know what is really funny? An '82 Accord was the best car I ever owned.. :surprise:

But, I bought mine new..

jrdwyer

This may be with V6 engines and poor gasket designs, but I have been running Orange Prestone coolant in my '95 Mazda Protege since 30K miles (bought the car new) and now have over 200K miles and I have NEVER had any overheating, coolant leaks, gunk in radiator, etc. I have changed the coolant according to Prestone's recommendations which were originally 4yr./100K miles and then replaced with 5yr./150K miles. The engine is an inline 4 cylinder (1.5L) with iron block and aluminum head. I believe Prestone orange is basically the same as Dexcool by Texaco.

boomchek

I think the previous owner of that one didn't take very good care of it, plus after it was rusted so bad the car was pretty much hopeless. :sick:

lweiss

1) A new 1980 Chevy Citation with the 2.8 V6- ugh, and not just motor problems- and a horrible Chevy dealer that treated me with contempt when I complained
2) A 1974 Chevy Camaro, also bought new- rear axle seized up within 10 miles after I picked it up (towed back to dealer), then ran OK but started rusting out horribly after 2 years
3) A 1998 Chevy Corsica- bought used for my teenaged kids to drive- ohmygosh what a mistake that was. But the looks and the room and the motor were fine- but just about everything else was a disaster, including leaks, rattles, too numerous to list.

Is it any wonder that I am no longer a GM owner?!?

snakeweasel

3) A 1998 Chevy Corsica-

I had a 1992 Corsica that I put 120K trouble miles on before my wife made me sell it so we can get a more family orientated vehicle. The people I sold it to put almost another 100K miles on it.

rockylee

I never knew a 98' Corsica existed. :surprise: I thought that car died in the early 90's :confuse:

Rocky

snakeweasel

Not sure when it "died" but I know they went at least into the mid 90's. Mine was a '92.

bumpy

A new 1980 Chevy Citation with the 2.8 V6

You too? I think GM could earn some goodwill by tracking down everyone who ever had a Citation and giving them a free car.

The Corsica trudged on in shame until the Malibu finally put it out to pasture in 1997.

rockylee

Okay, mid 90's is believable but late 90's :confuse:

Rocky

rockylee

That's why I was raising the red flag.

Rocky

boomchek

Didn't the Mailbu replace the Corsica in 1997?

rockylee

Well that's what I thought, but I wanted confirmation from others since I wasn't positive.

Rocky

andre1969

maybe he meant a 1988? The Malibu name was dusted off for the 1997 model year, so the Corsica's last year was most likely 1996, unless they built them out another year or two for fleet-only sales?

I know GM kept the Achieva and Skylark going for a couple more years as fleet-only vehicles. The gov't facility I work at picked up 5 Achievas back around 1997 or so for $65,000, or $13K apiece. They replaced...you guessed it, some Corsicas!

When I was a kid, my neighbors bought a Chevy Citation, but I can't remember if it was a 1980 or 1981. I know they didn't have it long, because it got recalled once or twice, and when my neighbor really LOOKED at the car, and saw how hard it would be to work on, they got out of it almost immediately, replacing it with a 1981 Monte Carlo.

I almost hate to admit it, but I kinda liked the Corsica whe it first came out. I thought the outside was cool, but that was around the time they started making the interiors out of too many separate pieces that were too plasticky and just didn't fit together well. It was a style that seemed to get dated pretty quickly, though.

boomchek

Funny offshoot to this Citation topic: when Volvo was developing their 850 in the late 80s they used the GM Citation (I think it was an X platform or something) as a test mule for their transversly mounted 5 cylinder engine, because the size of the Citation was similar to what the Volvo was going to be.

nvbanker

Well, I had a 93 Corsica, and the head gasket blew, and the computer went out at the same time, so they weren't making them any better in 93 than they did in 88.

kyfdx

Edmunds says that 1996 is the last year for the Corsica..

rockylee

That sounds more like it kyfdx

Rocky

nvbanker

Yes, so I said I had a 93. Where's the problem?

andre1969

Hey NV, how many miles did that Corsica have on it when the head gasket blew? I'm guessing it had the 3.1?

I had two friends with Cavalier 2.8's, and both of them had head gasket failures. One was an '87, and it blew around 1994 I guess. His Dad was a mechanic and was able to fix it though. I forget how many miles it had though. The other was an '89 Z-24, and this one blew around 100,000 miles. The whole engine was pretty shot though by that time, and I think the car had other issues, so he just unloaded it.

flash11

I like the topic.
You guys will get a kick out of this one...
Worst ever car owned:
1989 Lada Sedan (boxy cheap Russian car similar to the Fiat,bought for $700 used)-first 'students'car, changed out everything except the engine which blew a piston ring at around 200K miles. The headlamps used bulbs that I took out of my Dad's snowmobile head lamp. When the piston ring went, white smoke still coming out of the engine, I drove it on 3 pistons to the scrap yard and the guy bought it from me for $75.

snakeweasel

My Corsica with the 2.2 liter blew a gasket at over 100K (I an thinking 105-110). My mechanic replaced it and asked me when I had the engine rebuilt since the cylinders looked much newer than the odometer would suggest. I never had it rebuilt. I sold it not long after that to my Brother in law who gave it to his daughter, she put nearly another 100K on it.

jlawrence01

C'mon, there are some advantages of driving a Lada down the road. You NEVER have to worry about ANYONE tailgating you ... they are too busy dodging the parts as they fall off.

snakeweasel

You actually had a Lada?

The sad thing is that they still make them.

fintail

Reminds me of a warmed over 1982 (Euro) Ford Sierra. I bet they are laughed at in Russia too.

nvbanker

Hey NV, how many miles did that Corsica have on it when the head gasket blew? I'm guessing it had the 3.1?

I wish, andre. It had the 2.4L "Iron Duke" 4 banger. Not a bad performer, and great on gas, but at 71,000 miles, it just went to crap on me. My daughter was driving it at the time, and didn't abuse it. It actually leaked to the outside, you could see a little trickle of coolant coming down the front of the engine..... It wasn't worth the $4,000 it would cost for the new computer and head gasket rebuild, so I traded it for her.

The issue that pissed me off with the computer was that the computer wasn't that expensive - but you HAD to take it to Chevy to get it programmed, cause they had to call into Lansing MI for the download, and only Chevy Dealers could do it, and they charged $1800 for the flash!

That was my last GM product to date.

snakeweasel

I bet they are laughed at in Russia too.

Who knows they could be decent cars by now (can't believe I typed that with a straight face), but I have no data either way.

Just remember Apple once laughed at Windows.

andres3

Was made by Chrysler Dodge in 1994, the Dodge Neon, a 95 model.
First morning after picking it up the previous day, the car wouldn't start in our garage (faulty O2 sensor and fuel pump). Warning of lemon sign number 1!. First tow truck call.

Glue would melt and get all over the rear and front windows from the rubber trim. The parking brake required fixing. The AC died at about 36.1K miles. The head gaskets died at about 40K miles. The alternator belt snapped. The serpentine belt snapped. The transmission was failing at 60K miles, had to be replaced. There was a gas tank leak due to a faulty o-ring seal (talk about a dangerous flaw!) The car got out of alignment easily. Rattles and creaks and moans galore, only getting worse with age and mileage, but all before 65K miles.
Also, batteries, terminals, starter cables and wires all got corroded and needed replacement. Check engine light went on for no or little reason several times. The windshield cracked in half all the way down the middle from top to bottom while parked with no one around (not vandalism). I'm sure I'm forgetting at least 2 or 3 more things I had to do while owning that car. God bless whoever inherited that mess after we sold it to a dealer on trade-in. Their first offer (800) seemed like an insult, but was probably the most anyone who's sane would pay for a Chrysler/Dodge with 65K miles.

andres3

How come there is no forum for my best car ever?

Right now, I'd have to say my 06 Audi A3 wins. However, the 03 Accord V6 coupe definitely takes 2nd and not all that far behind.