Thank you everyone for feedback on my "odd" experience with ILP (the cooling fan immediately started cycling on and off in 60 - 90 second intervals.)
After very brief use, perhaps 5 minutes, my car had sat in my driveway for close to 3 hours before I did the ILP. No one else was home - so the car was not borrowed or used. It was 86 out (not quite the 90 degrees Kip had in Texas where ILP went smoothly.)
I am 98% sure nothing electric was switched "on." (Checking this morning the AC is "off," etc.)
Don't yet have a good idea / theory / suggestion to account for that rapid cycling of the cooling fan.
I am considering doing it again Sunday a.m. after it has been sitting all night, ambient temperature will be even lower, and boy-howdy I will pay careful attention to make sure the AC power switch and everything else is in OFF and see what happens.
Question: I really dislike my experience with disconnecting negative battery terminal. Reconnecting it was very difficult, it took quite a minutes and the it's initial insecure attachment caused me insecurity...
What about removing the battery fuse? I think I saw a brief discussion about that option along the way in this group. For me, it would be easier - is it as legitimate a way to initiate the ILP?
Thanks again to all for feedback and help, and also having some understanding of the legitimacy of my frustration about this very poor mileage situation (I hate to think I should have kept my mouth shut and let her get a Prius - and it's too late to turn back!)
First full tank (ie the tank after I filled up the first time, not trusting the dealer filled it to the brim) on my Automatic Sport, all city, all AC (I live in Houston).
197.6 miles, 9.304 gallons
21.24 mpg
I'll give it another 2-3 tanks before trying the ILP, since there's a possibility the low mpg is because the car has 400 miles on it and it's all city driving with AC.
565 km with 34.216 L of gas (btw the Fit's low fuel light comes on when you have 5L remaining give or take)
that's 16.5127 km/L or 38.75 MPG
400km was highway and 165 was city
highway MPG is 42MPG and city is 30 MPG (converting canadian numbers 5.6L/100km and 7.8L/100km respectively)
a weighted extrapolation would give 38.49MPG for the same trip i made, I got 38.75 MPG .26MPG better then EPA, WOO HOO
the fit's engine is tiny so unneccesary acceleration uses an incredible amount of gas, also high cruising speeds are too much for the little engine so i would recommend trying to stay below 120kph or 75 mph, 110kph seems to be best compromise between speed and economy
hope this helps you guys
i hvn't performed the idle learn process yet but might do this within the next week or so, ill let you know on whether the process improves mileage
I redid my ILP a week ago. started by disconnecting the negative on the battery. left it for a few hours while i went out. once reconnected, only had to enter the code on the stereo and the time on the clock. it saved the presets on the radio and the auto feature on the drivers window still works fine.
i bought my fit after my '92 si was stolen (i was HEARTBORKEN...)
the fit is NOT an si. period. the engine is totally different from the d-type engines from the si. the d series engines are a wonderful feat of engineering, they are lower emission, higher output tanks. my love for the civic engine will live on for quite a while. (notice the fit is only LEV certified versus ULEV for the civic? thats because it was a japanese engine first and foremost, whereas the later generation civic engines were designed with US emission standards in mind.
i drive with the A/C on all the time (it's quite humid where i'm from and my lady friend has bad allergies) and i still average about 32 MPG in mostly city driving... that is, for lack of a better word, FANTASTIC. (it's a sport 5spd)
the one thing i want to emphasize is that it is only a 10 gallon tank, this gives the illusion that the car is much more thirsty than it really is, be sure to keep that in mind when doing the math.
Saying the Fit engine is tiny is not smart. I had a 1984 Nissan Sentra with about 80 hp that I drove cross country and got almost 50 mpg. So your logic escapes me. Why would you make a small engine in the first place???
i love my fit ... except very bad mileage. i thought it was because I only travel 3 miles to work everyday (i get 18 miles per gallong on the streets) but i just got back from a trip up north and i filled my tank.. set my trip meter and went 263 miles and my tank was empty!!! this was on the open freeway light traffic??? that's what 26 miles a gallon? my air conditioner was on about 1/4 of the way. what should i do about this? any suggestions.
its small so going extra high speeds takes a toll on the engine and for cars with bigger engines drag is the major issue, for smaller engine cars like the fit, power requirement is more important, if you have 200 horsepower on tap going an extra 10mph from 60mph is nothing, if you only have say 100 horsepower the difference between 60mph and 70mph is like going 50% to going 80%
this is an extremely simplified way of putting it. my point is just that the fit isn't designed to go super fast speeds, and by taking it up to speeds it wasn't designed for i was expecting too much from the engine and thus had to suffer the consequences
in reality there are alot more variables to consider like the horsepower and torque curve, gearing, drag coefficients, frontal surface area, rolling resistance of the tyres, etc. but that would just be nerding it a bit
that was how i felt when i took the car on it's first highway trip
in the city it wasn't getting that good mileage but i was just assuming it was due to stop and go traffic, but even after taking it on the freeways i only managed to get 30 or so mpg which is a far cry from the 42 advertised
i've concluded that this was due to my higher then normal speeds 120kph with blasts up to 140kph to overtake, 74 and 87 mph respectively
the fit is designed to cruise along at speeds below 70 and that is where it gets the best fuel mileage
if possible keep it between 60-70 and avoid accelerating and deccellerating unneccesarily, by doing this i was able to get above the EPA rated MPG figure
if you really want to go the extra mile, try and draft behind a big truck, stay around 2 seconds behind an 18 wheeler and you benefit from being inside his slipstream which is an area of low pressure effectively reducing the load on your engine and thus reducing the amount of fuel consumed, the closer you are the more this effect becomes apparent but at motorway speeds 60 ish mph the extra efficiency gained from decreasing from 2 seconds behind to 1 second behind is negligible
the farthest you can stay behind is about 4 seconds, any farther behind that and you're running into clean air which is non turbulent air and you might as well be a mile behind him
by drafting the entire way to london about 130 miles, i managed to get less then 5L/100km above 20km/L in a 2001 corolla which belonged to my sister. this figure is substantially better then the advertised one and as of yet i have not been able to match it with the Fit. I'm thinking this is because of the slightly more powerful corolla engine which allowed me to draft at 130kph for most of the way, this speed would be too much for the Fit even with the benneficial effect of drafting.
"by drafting the entire way to london about 130 miles, i managed to get less then 5L/100km above 20km/L in a 2001 corolla"
I would guess the transmission in the Corolla was a manual, but what is it in your Fit? My record high mileage/low fuel consumption on my 5MT base Fit is 41.7 mpg(US) or 5.6L/100km and that was with speeds averaging about 70 mph (~115 km/h) and sometimes reaching 120 or 130 km/h to pass.
I don't know about the size or power with engines. We rented a brand new (just 20km on the odometer) SEAT Cordoba and drove about 1600 km in the summer of 2003. Through a combination of dirt roads, windy roads, city traffic, and some motorway driving, we averaged 6.2L/100km (or about 38 mpgUS). Most of the time we had 5 people in the car with the A/C on. That same kind of driving in my Fit (minus the dirt roads :P) with just 1 or 2 people and 50% A/C averages 34 or 35 mpg. Also, the Cordoba was a 1.4L making less than 100HP.
hmm where'd u get a SEAT ?? we dont have them available around here (Canada) ... actually we dont get many european cars around here, no peugeots, no citreons, no renaults, no MGs, no Rovers ... etc.
I'm the guy who left my AT Sport model (2,300 miles) at the dealer last week to have the ILP performed. They returned the car and the clock was still set (radio, too) and when I quizzed them they said they just let the car idle (!)So they blew me off.
I then mustered my nerve (I have ten thumbs) and did the ILP myself - except immediately when I started the car after 10 minutes of battery disconnection, the fan cycled on and off every 60 - 90 seconds repeatedly.
With supportive comments and nudging from this group, I did the ILP again Saturday a.m. after the car sat out all night.
I tried to be as precise as possible. Ambient temperature: 59 degree. Dress mode: Casual slob. Fuel: Peets Major Dickason Fully Leaded.
Disconnected the battery for 10 minutes. Again reconnecting the clamp firmly to the post is a challenge for me, the clamp seems a tiny bit too large, so it seems to take a lot of extra torque (and wrench slippage!) to get it create a half-decent amount of friction to stay on the negative post (and I hope it stays!)
This time, when I started the engine, it took 37 minutes before the fan came on. I was quite pleased, this seems quite in line with the experience of others. I let it cycle through a second time and then an additional 10 minutes idling which - as I understand it - is doing the ILP correctly.
*This time* because I had the correct radio code to start with, as soon as I punched it in I found all my presets were saved. I then reset the clock.
I happened to have a 190 miles freeway drive yesterday. I filled the car (87 octane) and checked the tires cold (all spot on 32 PSI.) I was very careful to accelerate slowly and used cruise control at 70 MPH for almost all the journey (maybe 10% at somewhat slower speeds, almost always governed by cruise controls evenhandedness.)A.C. was used only 10% of the time. Filled it up again from the exact same pump so the same "auto shut off sensor" was used.
Our best mileage ever was one similar freeway trip which was 32 MPG. Yesterday's trip was 34.3 MPG.
SO... I dunno. I frankly would have smiled if it was 35 or better, this mileage still doesn't put us on the higher end of the scale of owners in this forum (which clearly seems to have a distinct "upper class" versus "lower class" split on milage.)
Now I realize if my trip had been closer to 300 or more miles it would have evened out some variables and maybe possibly might have shown a tiny bit better milage.
Also, I am a cave man about automotive issues - is the ILP actually more likely to effect city driving with more frequents stops (hence, idling?) than my freeway drive? (Having said that... I still thought our Fit's freeway milage when I drove SO conservatively might be above 35 MPG...)
Thanks for input and support on this vexing issue -
i think the ILP is just to help the engine "learn" some conditions and to make up for the differences between engines since the manufacturing process isn't perfect
the different fit and finishes of the multiple parts in the drivetrain system (everything from intake to exhaust and engine to wheels) makes each car quite different from the next
In addition i think the ILP really only affects emmissions whereas fuel economy is hardly (if at all) affected. The increases in fuel economy are probably kinda a placeobo ([non-permissible content removed] cant spell) effect where the owners who did the process drove more carefully and slowly thereby decreasing fuel consumption
my advice for you is to just accelerate mildly (avoid using vtec in anything but first gear (try and stay below 4000, if you are going to use vtec only use it while passing and dont cruise with it). Also ive heard somewhere that using cruise control is less efficient then maintaining your speed with your foot as the cruise control robs some power from the engine much like using the A/C does.
By carefully monitoring my driving habits i managed to almost double my mpg(i'm not joking, went from 18 to 39 albeit the latter included alot of highway miles)
Cruise doesn't rob your engine of power, especially in a drive by wire vehicle, such as the Fit, as there's nothing mechanical involved. It can hurt your mileage by continually increasing throttle until it gets you back up to the set speed. This would kill your mileage, if you're in any sort of hilly area. If you're controlling the speed yourself, you may choose the option of allowing your speed to decrease as you go up the hill, as opposed to pressing the accelerator harder, to maintain your speed.
Andrew...I have too been extremely perplexed by my low mileage compared to the others. I haven't gotten above 32mpg, even while driving on the open road. I live in the suburbs and like you don't have far to go for work. Until now...
I took a 6 hour trip to NC last week. Before we left I checked my tire pressure. All 4 tires were below 30.5 psi. I took them up to 34. Then I filled up with BP gasoline, rather than my usual WaWa or Sheets cheapo gas. I also now have over 3,000 miles on the car.
I have no idea which thing helped, but I got 40mpg on the trips up and back each. I'm used to my fuel light coming on at 260 miles. When it didn't even come on at 360, I was amazed. And I had a TON of stuff in that car!
Our annual beach trip was usually pretty tight in our old Accord Wagon. I was worried I wouldn't get all the stuff in there. But the Fit managaged everything including the boogie board, 3 hoola hoops, two huge suitcases, the cooler and several bags of groceries and toys. I was extremely pleased overall. Finally getting the mileage I had hoped for and for having the room to ride comfortably for 6 hours with the front passenger seat in refresh mode, no less.
I happened to have a 190 miles freeway drive yesterday. I filled the car (87 octane) and checked the tires cold (all spot on 32 PSI.) I was very careful to accelerate slowly and used cruise control at 70 MPH for almost all the journey (maybe 10% at somewhat slower speeds, almost always governed by cruise controls evenhandedness.)A.C. was used only 10% of the time. Filled it up again from the exact same pump so the same "auto shut off sensor" was used.
Sounds like the ILP went well.
That 190 mile trip is sort of an indicator for you but don't get to terribly discouraged yet. Apparently you used about 5.54 gallons of gas. Those shut off sensors are not a extremely accurate device. Consider the following.
Just 3 tenths of a gallon either way would have resulted in 33 on the low side or 36.3 on the high side. I realize you had only the 190 miles and you had to work with that distance. Just keep in mind that the more gas a fill up takes, the more accurate the reading.
Cruise control can really affect mileage on hilly roads. When hills are present I usually turn off the cruise and drive at my speed. That is usually 67 on flats, 70+ toward the bottom of hills if there is an uphill next. Kind of using gravity to help with a little extra speed to help get farther up the next before more throttle is required. Speed may drop to 60 or so by the top of the next one. Just try to not upset the guy behind me.
It is amazing what 3 mph up or down can do to fuel mileage.
I've got a feeling you will see improved mileage. If not you will know it is not the ILP !
I bought my Sport manual in May. Since then I've been getting about 36 mpg. This is about 60% highway, with lots of speeding up and slowing down due to traffic, and 40% city/suburban. I often cruise at 70+ for short periods. I'm more than satisfied!
I did the idle learn and it appears that i'm getting worst milage then before.. i'm at half after the test and refill and i'm at about 121 miles.. i use to be at 150+ at half tank.. my needle is dropping very fast... what is going on.. maybe i should not have done it!
i have hills too and rev up to 4-5k for a few stretches.. should i use premium gas? doe sit make for a smoother ride?
Have you tried changing gas stations? We have had our mileage drop from 36-38 (air on, mixed driving, passengers, etc.) to 24 mpg twice, each time when we bought gas at a certain station. As soon as we made the connection we stopped buying gas there. The mileage went back to where it should be. This drop in mpg happened with our CR-V as well when we filled up at this station. So, we concluded it was the gas not the Fit. What does the dealer say about the poor mpg? Have you checked with Honda's corporate customer service. This shouldn't be happening. The Fit is such as nice car, you should be able to enjoy it and get the gas efficiency. :confuse:
well i was getting 28-30 on mostly 90% highway driving.. i was hoping at least 33-35 if 90% highway.. so i did the idle learn... i filled up at the gas station which gave me the best mpg.. 31.5... i was at half at 121.. my best was 170.. avergage 150.. i havenm't taken it in yet.. i just recently did the idle learn procedure and figure to give it a couple more fillups... but disappointed so far.. i've only read that it has help many... but never though that it would decrease my milage lol
Anyway, my concern would be if my battery was discharged, does that mean I need to have this procedure done?
Yes! Because disconnecting the battery or pulling any one of several fuses is part of the ILP. A dead battery would do the same thing. Sooner or later a battery is going to go dead, be replaced, or disconnected. ILP should be done when all is well again!
There is no reason the ILP would harm a cars mileage, unless something was done really wrong. Like maybe it had actually been done by the dealer, and someone tried it at home and ended up with a stupid computer.
Ack. Most people will not remember or do an ILP everytime a battery is discharged. So does that mean if you don't perform the ILP, you will get worse gas mileage? Sounds like a bad design, IMHO. From a consumer's perspective, its bad enough a battery is discharged, having to worry about letting your car idle for another 30-40 min to get the optimal setting is too troublesome. Plus, a brand new car and idling it for 30-40 min? Thinking old school, I thought that was bad for the engine.
Most people will not remember or do an ILP every time a battery is discharged.
I agree, However those procedures indicate the ILP has to be done. The one for the Pilot spells it out that if any one of several fuses is pulled and/or replaced or the battery is disconnected, replaced, etc.,an ILP needs to be done.
For the Fit I believe it says that a certain fuse has been disconnected to keep the battery from discharging. They need to connect the fuse, then in the next step do the ILP.
Batteries don't go dead very often, so it is not something that has to be done a lot!
Apparently idling the engine will not hurt it, as it is part of the new car get ready procedure.
If you do manage to discharge and need a jump start, or you need to replace the battery, the car will get you home just fine. Just remember to do the ILP first chance or you mileage may suffer.
I believe there are several regular maintenance type items that as part of the instructions, the tech is directed to disconnect the negative battery lead. It just seems (okay, I'll say it) weird, that for any time the computer is disconnected from power, it would have to go through the ILP.
I could see if you replaced the ECU, because you're physically removing the part that stored the idle data, but would it not seem logical that this sort of information would be written to a non-volitile form of memory (NVRAM vs VRAM), instead of one that requires constant juice to maintain its settings? The only reason I could think of, would be that they're (Honda) making the assumption that if you made some change to your system that required the battery to be disconnected, then it's very possible that your change has had an impact on the efficiency of the engine. Because of this, you would then need to re-do the ILP.
I just cannot see every tech out there, whether based at a Honda dealership or not, would remember to do the ILP, whenever they disconnect the battery.
I just talked to the Service Director at First Texas Honda. He checked with the Honda Tech Line. They say that the ILP has nothing to do with mileage. What it does is orient the Fit's computer to the particular location (Austin, TX vs. Denver) and some other stuff. When the battery is changed, the computer learns this stuff within a couple of days while driving.
What it does is orient the Fit's computer to the particular location (Austin, TX vs. Denver) and some other stuff.
You lost me there. How would doing an ILP tell the computer the car was in a particular location. Does it get confused if it leaves the location where the ILP took place?
I think someone is pulling your leg or you are trying to pull ours.
I expect the ILP for the Fit to be similar. As you can see it needs to be done when any one (or more) of several things may happen.
Some folks on this forum have done it, as well as on the Pilot Forum and I believe the CR-V forum. With some, the MPG increased. With some it did not. If you are getting poor mileage it may help. It sure won't make it any worse. If you are already getting great mileage, it probably won't do anything.
Those of you who think it might be worth a try, might wish to do it! Those who think Honda doesn't know what they are doing or think it won't help your mileage, don't.
You lost me there. How would doing an ILP tell the computer the car was in a particular location. Does it get confused if it leaves the location where the ILP took place?
I think he meant in terms of sensor settings recorded by the ECM. So its like Austin has a lower altitude than Denver and lets say you ship a car from Austin to Denver and then you start the car, the car will choke or stall until the computer learns the new sensor settings.
I could see if you replaced the ECU, because you're physically removing the part that stored the idle data, but would it not seem logical that this sort of information would be written to a non-volitile form of memory (NVRAM vs VRAM)
I totally agree. The ECU/ECM should be storing the settings and should not be affected by a discharged battery. And if new settings need to take effect, the learn as you drive feature should take place.
I don't think it would choke or stall with modern computer controls, I think it would just take a few days to learn the new optimal settings for fuel mixture and the like, if you don't do the ILP.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Sounds like the ILP is really just a quick way to get a new car adjusted to the pressure, temperature and humidity in a given location. The computer would "learn" all these things in a few days of driving, but in the meantime the new owner would be complaining that the car was not running properly, so the ILP just takes care of the initial setting.
As weather changes, the computer would continue to "learn," and adjust from winter to summer, etc.
If my interpretation is correct, doing the ILP will not help your mileage unless the dealer forgot to do it and the settings are particularly ill suited for your area. Just driving for a few days should then accomplish the same thing (which I think someone who posted earlier was told by their dealer - "just drive it").
I have a fit on order-supposed to arrive end of Sept- Sport, AT, White/Black. Can any one explain the references to "do not go over the VTEK if you want good mpg? I am guessing something happens at some RPM range to do something to motor to make it more powerful- how do I know when the VTEK kicks in? PS, I contracted to MSRP two weeks ago when the car arrives. Put $100 to hold it.
newayz, when vtec's 2nd stage turns on (from 3500rpm to redline on the fit) the valves of the engine increase in lift which allows more air into the engine, more air = more gas used, if you really need to accelerate quickly then vtec's where you wanna be, but if you're just cruising, there's no point in letting it stay above 3500 cuz you won't need all that power
this is a really laymans explanation so those who are more knowledgeble please don't slam me, if you want i can give a more detailed explanation but its really technical
I was reading somewhere once (I think it was an article on TOV Asia's website) that the L15A engine in the Fit works on a 12/16 valve configuration. When VTEC is not engaged (below engine speeds of about 3500 rpm), both exhaust valves are working, but only one intake valve is opened. At engine speeds where VTEC is activated, all four valves are used. Hence, fuel consumption would increase.
If my interpretation is correct, doing the ILP will not help your mileage unless the dealer forgot to do it and the settings are particularly ill suited for your area. Just driving for a few days should then accomplish the same thing (which I think someone who posted earlier was told by their dealer - "just drive it").
I agree that the ILP will not help mileage if it has already been done properly. Other than that you guys are going into a zone that is way above my head.
You may be right that the "ABC" does this or the "XYZ" does that. You may be right that doing something doesn't make sense. You may be right that if driven long enough everything will be OK.
Also you may be wrong! :sick:
After turning wrenches in the field for IBM for 30 years, I learned to do as the instructions said and things will be done correctly. Too many times I've had to bail a tech (CE) out of trouble that took short cuts or figured something wasn't really important to do.
The get ready procedures for the Pilot and the Fit say to do it!
Not so sure about that KIip.. i was geting 28-30.. but after i did it.. i got 24 my first tank.. same driving.. i'm hopign my secodn will be better.. but it did drop my mpg.. someone told me it had to re-learn my driving.. i doubt it..
Just took 1200 mile road trip to the cenral CA coast. My 5MT Sport was loaded to the limit (camping gear). I drive relatively fast, averaging around 75mph on the freeway parts of the trip.
35 MPG almost on the button.
Very reasonable. I think the Fit is the first car I've driven (or know of) that actually has EPA numbers that match reality. I'm sure that if I had a reasonable load and drove at 59mph on freeway I'd get 38mpg without a problem.
I usually drive 75/25 city/hwy. I get about 32mpg. I drive pretty fast and always use the air-con. I'm sure that if drove a little differently my avg mpg would go to about 34.
Those numbers, to me, are pretty amazing. Consider that the highest non-hybrid, non-diesel gas mileage car in the US last year was the Echo at 38mpg. (As measured by Consumer Reports.)
That Echo was 400 pounds lighter than the Fit and geared taller.
Oh, btw, I got some comments from other campers about the amazing amount of stuff we had crammed into the Fit.
I want to agree with kipk that the ILP definitely will help some Fits. I was getting ony 24.5 - 27.5 mpg before I did mine. My hwy, mostly Interstate mileage, is now 37.5 - 39 mpg. This is traveling near 80 in 100 degree weather with constant air. My city mpg has not improved as dramatically, but averages 27.5 - 30 in all city driving with air. My first tank after I did ILP was only 25 mpg as it included 45 minutes of idle time. I have used EXXON gas, mostly from the same station.
great that it has worked out for the better for you,, i did the idle learn and after my first tank i got 24mpg with fill-up after dile learn.. I was getting 27-30 mpg on all highway driving.. was hoping for a few more mpg.. but i got a few less.. hope it improves over time.. sigh....
I drove almost 700 miles round trip this weekend through the beautiful mountains of North Carolina and Tennessee. I topped off the tank before I left, filled up close to my destination and refilled when I returned. To smooth out inconsistencies due to the gas pump at my destination, I also calculated the weighted average for the entire trip at 41.774 MPG. Pretty darn good.:)
This entire trip was 90% highway with the rest 2-lane country roads.
A/C use: 50% - switched off during steep inclines
Highway speeds: varied by area 65-70 MPH. Using Scangauge I kept rpms just under VTEC level.
Non-highway speeds: usually 35-50 MPH
Other: ~4,000 ft change in elevation each way with some LONG climbs near Asheville. I got stuck in 2 traffic jams. On the first leg of the trip I encountered 1/2 hour of stop-n-go traffic due to road construction. On the return trip I had ~20 minutes of stop-n-go traffic due to an accident.
Observations: On a long trip, I find that the Fit is VERY comfortable. The engine just purrs the whole time without a complaint. Wind noise is so much less than my Altima was. I only had to downshift once the entire trip to 4th gear to make the steep 6% grade into Asheville. While maintaining the speed limit or only 10 MPH over, I passed most other vehicles in the twisty mountain passes. I noticed that the only vehicles taking these parts at top speed were sports cars, motorcycles, and . . . . my Honda Fit! I've driven that route in many other vehicles (Honda Civic, Toyota Tacoma, and Nissan Altima) and the Fit felt the most stable and secure on the road. It seems like it's on rails and won't slip out of control no matter what you do. It's one of the little pluses about it that I didn't realize until this trip.:D It's really fun. Give your Fit a try in the mountains!
I'm trying to assess what I've learned from reading this forum for months and my own experience after several talks with the dealer and Honda as well as performing the ILP.
While some people seemed to have had a useful boost in MPG after conducting their own ILP, the point has been made that following that procedure they were also more careful about their driving style. Lately many posts have focussed on the fuel saving benefits of sub-VTEC rpms, etc.
We did have only one tank of gas since I did the ILP and I drove much more meticulously and found a modest 2 MPG boost in pure highway driving. My current thinking is that my wife (primary Fit driver) as well as I should both make a committed effort to pay attention to and modify the many small moment to moment habits of our driving styles.
Has anyone used a Scangauge to serve as basically a visual tutor to reshape their driving - and if so, to what extent have they improved their mileage? I would be willing to install this (or a similar device) if we might possibly see a repeatable boost in MPG.
Someone previously posted a report on exactly what you are proposing, and reported on exactly which driving habits of his were most affecting his mileage.
I've started keeping a log of my mileage with my present car (Isuzu Oasis) while I'm waiting for my Fit to arrive, hopefully near the end of October. That would give me a basis for evaluating the Fit's mileage, assuming I don't change my driving style. My mileage on the Oasis has ranged from 16 to 27 MPG for my normal driving style, depending on the mix of city/highway. I once got 30 MPG on a drive from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh where I kept to a steady 55 MPH, but I decided the boredom wasn't worth the gas I saved!
I'm also thinking a scangauge might be a worthwhile investment, not as a permanent addition to the car, but as a learning tool as you propose. Maybe I can split the cost with some friends who are also interested in learning how to drive in a more economical manner.
I have been using the Scangauge for over 1 month now.
My average MPG was hovering in the 35 - 36 MPG range prior to that. After I started using the Scangauge and driving according to its information display my overall average has climbed up to 37.387 MPG. That is not just per tank but on my all-time average. A little over 1 month of Scangauge driving brought my average for 2-1/2 months up by that much! My average just including tanks since getting the Scangauge is 39.492 MPG.
Also, since getting the Scangauge, I have recorded 3 of my highest tanks ever - 44.178, 43.012, and 45.063 MPG!
It's not magic and it's not automatic. I am driving the speed limit, limiting rpms during shifting and cruising, keeping my tire pressures at 38 psi, and using the a/c frugally (maybe 50% of the time). Once in a while I will use gravity (coasting where the throttle is not necessary) and I never speed up unnecessarily just so I have to brake for a light.
At some point I will post some pictures of my Scangauge and show how it's installed.
"It's not magic and it's not automatic. I am driving the speed limit, limiting rpms during shifting and cruising, keeping my tire pressures at 38 psi, and using the a/c frugally (maybe 50% of the time). Once in a while I will use gravity (coasting where the throttle is not necessary) and I never speed up unnecessarily just so I have to brake for a light.
At some point I will post some pictures of my Scangauge and show how it's installed"
Why would you need a device to tell you to drive like that? Aren't those common-sense ways to improve gas mileage?
I was just in Japan and reading one of the most popular car mags there called "The Best Car." They had a feature article on how to save gas, and one of the experts in the article said that by putting in a mileage gauge the same driver would get a 10 to 12% better gas mileage than without the gauge simply because the driver gains awareness of how his/her driving impacts the fuel consumption. Makes sense to me.
Comments
After very brief use, perhaps 5 minutes, my car had sat in my driveway for close to 3 hours before I did the ILP. No one else was home - so the car was not borrowed or used. It was 86 out (not quite the 90 degrees Kip had in Texas where ILP went smoothly.)
I am 98% sure nothing electric was switched "on." (Checking this morning the AC is "off," etc.)
Don't yet have a good idea / theory / suggestion to account for that rapid cycling of the cooling fan.
I am considering doing it again Sunday a.m. after it has been sitting all night, ambient temperature will be even lower, and boy-howdy I will pay careful attention to make sure the AC power switch and everything else is in OFF and see what happens.
Question: I really dislike my experience with disconnecting negative battery terminal. Reconnecting it was very difficult, it took quite a minutes and the it's initial insecure attachment caused me insecurity...
What about removing the battery fuse? I think I saw a brief discussion about that option along the way in this group. For me, it would be easier - is it as legitimate a way to initiate the ILP?
Thanks again to all for feedback and help, and also having some understanding of the legitimacy of my frustration about this very poor mileage situation (I hate to think I should have kept my mouth shut and let her get a Prius - and it's too late to turn back!)
Andrew
197.6 miles, 9.304 gallons
21.24 mpg
I'll give it another 2-3 tanks before trying the ILP, since there's a possibility the low mpg is because the car has 400 miles on it and it's all city driving with AC.
565 km with 34.216 L of gas (btw the Fit's low fuel light comes on when you have 5L remaining give or take)
that's 16.5127 km/L or 38.75 MPG
400km was highway and 165 was city
highway MPG is 42MPG and city is 30 MPG (converting canadian numbers 5.6L/100km and 7.8L/100km respectively)
a weighted extrapolation would give 38.49MPG for the same trip i made, I got 38.75 MPG .26MPG better then EPA, WOO HOO
the fit's engine is tiny so unneccesary acceleration uses an incredible amount of gas, also high cruising speeds are too much for the little engine so i would recommend trying to stay below 120kph or 75 mph, 110kph seems to be best compromise between speed and economy
hope this helps you guys
i hvn't performed the idle learn process yet but might do this within the next week or so, ill let you know on whether the process improves mileage
till then, peace out
the fit is NOT an si. period. the engine is totally different from the d-type engines from the si. the d series engines are a wonderful feat of engineering, they are lower emission, higher output tanks. my love for the civic engine will live on for quite a while. (notice the fit is only LEV certified versus ULEV for the civic? thats because it was a japanese engine first and foremost, whereas the later generation civic engines were designed with US emission standards in mind.
i drive with the A/C on all the time (it's quite humid where i'm from and my lady friend has bad allergies) and i still average about 32 MPG in mostly city driving... that is, for lack of a better word, FANTASTIC. (it's a sport 5spd)
the one thing i want to emphasize is that it is only a 10 gallon tank, this gives the illusion that the car is much more thirsty than it really is, be sure to keep that in mind when doing the math.
this is an extremely simplified way of putting it. my point is just that the fit isn't designed to go super fast speeds, and by taking it up to speeds it wasn't designed for i was expecting too much from the engine and thus had to suffer the consequences
in reality there are alot more variables to consider like the horsepower and torque curve, gearing, drag coefficients, frontal surface area, rolling resistance of the tyres, etc. but that would just be nerding it a bit
btw did you get 50 imperial mpg or 50 us mpg ??
in the city it wasn't getting that good mileage but i was just assuming it was due to stop and go traffic, but even after taking it on the freeways i only managed to get 30 or so mpg which is a far cry from the 42 advertised
i've concluded that this was due to my higher then normal speeds 120kph with blasts up to 140kph to overtake, 74 and 87 mph respectively
the fit is designed to cruise along at speeds below 70 and that is where it gets the best fuel mileage
if possible keep it between 60-70 and avoid accelerating and deccellerating unneccesarily, by doing this i was able to get above the EPA rated MPG figure
if you really want to go the extra mile, try and draft behind a big truck, stay around 2 seconds behind an 18 wheeler and you benefit from being inside his slipstream which is an area of low pressure effectively reducing the load on your engine and thus reducing the amount of fuel consumed, the closer you are the more this effect becomes apparent but at motorway speeds 60 ish mph the extra efficiency gained from decreasing from 2 seconds behind to 1 second behind is negligible
the farthest you can stay behind is about 4 seconds, any farther behind that and you're running into clean air which is non turbulent air and you might as well be a mile behind him
by drafting the entire way to london about 130 miles, i managed to get less then 5L/100km above 20km/L in a 2001 corolla which belonged to my sister. this figure is substantially better then the advertised one and as of yet i have not been able to match it with the Fit. I'm thinking this is because of the slightly more powerful corolla engine which allowed me to draft at 130kph for most of the way, this speed would be too much for the Fit even with the benneficial effect of drafting.
I would guess the transmission in the Corolla was a manual, but what is it in your Fit? My record high mileage/low fuel consumption on my 5MT base Fit is 41.7 mpg(US) or 5.6L/100km and that was with speeds averaging about 70 mph (~115 km/h) and sometimes reaching 120 or 130 km/h to pass.
I don't know about the size or power with engines. We rented a brand new (just 20km on the odometer) SEAT Cordoba and drove about 1600 km in the summer of 2003. Through a combination of dirt roads, windy roads, city traffic, and some motorway driving, we averaged 6.2L/100km (or about 38 mpgUS). Most of the time we had 5 people in the car with the A/C on.
That same kind of driving in my Fit (minus the dirt roads :P) with just 1 or 2 people and 50% A/C averages 34 or 35 mpg. Also, the Cordoba was a 1.4L making less than 100HP.
hmm where'd u get a SEAT ?? we dont have them available around here (Canada) ... actually we dont get many european cars around here, no peugeots, no citreons, no renaults, no MGs, no Rovers ... etc.
I'm the guy who left my AT Sport model (2,300 miles) at the dealer last week to have the ILP performed. They returned the car and the clock was still set (radio, too) and when I quizzed them they said they just let the car idle (!)So they blew me off.
I then mustered my nerve (I have ten thumbs) and did the ILP myself - except immediately when I started the car after 10 minutes of battery disconnection, the fan cycled on and off every 60 - 90 seconds repeatedly.
With supportive comments and nudging from this group, I did the ILP again Saturday a.m. after the car sat out all night.
I tried to be as precise as possible. Ambient temperature: 59 degree. Dress mode: Casual slob. Fuel: Peets Major Dickason Fully Leaded.
Disconnected the battery for 10 minutes. Again reconnecting the clamp firmly to the post is a challenge for me, the clamp seems a tiny bit too large, so it seems to take a lot of extra torque (and wrench slippage!) to get it create a half-decent amount of friction to stay on the negative post (and I hope it stays!)
This time, when I started the engine, it took 37 minutes before the fan came on. I was quite pleased, this seems quite in line with the experience of others. I let it cycle through a second time and then an additional 10 minutes idling which - as I understand it - is doing the ILP correctly.
*This time* because I had the correct radio code to start with, as soon as I punched it in I found all my presets were saved. I then reset the clock.
I happened to have a 190 miles freeway drive yesterday. I filled the car (87 octane) and checked the tires cold (all spot on 32 PSI.) I was very careful to accelerate slowly and used cruise control at 70 MPH for almost all the journey (maybe 10% at somewhat slower speeds, almost always governed by cruise controls evenhandedness.)A.C. was used only 10% of the time. Filled it up again from the exact same pump so the same "auto shut off sensor" was used.
Our best mileage ever was one similar freeway trip which was 32 MPG. Yesterday's trip was 34.3 MPG.
SO... I dunno. I frankly would have smiled if it was 35 or better, this mileage still doesn't put us on the higher end of the scale of owners in this forum (which clearly seems to have a distinct "upper class" versus "lower class" split on milage.)
Now I realize if my trip had been closer to 300 or more miles it would have evened out some variables and maybe possibly might have shown a tiny bit better milage.
Also, I am a cave man about automotive issues - is the ILP actually more likely to effect city driving with more frequents stops (hence, idling?) than my freeway drive? (Having said that... I still thought our Fit's freeway milage when I drove SO conservatively might be above 35 MPG...)
Thanks for input and support on this vexing issue -
Andrew
the different fit and finishes of the multiple parts in the drivetrain system (everything from intake to exhaust and engine to wheels) makes each car quite different from the next
In addition i think the ILP really only affects emmissions whereas fuel economy is hardly (if at all) affected. The increases in fuel economy are probably kinda a placeobo ([non-permissible content removed] cant spell) effect where the owners who did the process drove more carefully and slowly thereby decreasing fuel consumption
my advice for you is to just accelerate mildly (avoid using vtec in anything but first gear (try and stay below 4000, if you are going to use vtec only use it while passing and dont cruise with it). Also ive heard somewhere that using cruise control is less efficient then maintaining your speed with your foot as the cruise control robs some power from the engine much like using the A/C does.
By carefully monitoring my driving habits i managed to almost double my mpg(i'm not joking, went from 18 to 39 albeit the latter included alot of highway miles)
I took a 6 hour trip to NC last week. Before we left I checked my tire pressure. All 4 tires were below 30.5 psi. I took them up to 34. Then I filled up with BP gasoline, rather than my usual WaWa or Sheets cheapo gas. I also now have over 3,000 miles on the car.
I have no idea which thing helped, but I got 40mpg on the trips up and back each. I'm used to my fuel light coming on at 260 miles. When it didn't even come on at 360, I was amazed. And I had a TON of stuff in that car!
Our annual beach trip was usually pretty tight in our old Accord Wagon. I was worried I wouldn't get all the stuff in there. But the Fit managaged everything including the boogie board, 3 hoola hoops, two huge suitcases, the cooler and several bags of groceries and toys. I was extremely pleased overall. Finally getting the mileage I had hoped for and for having the room to ride comfortably for 6 hours with the front passenger seat in refresh mode, no less.
It may be a breaking in thing after all?
Sounds like the ILP went well.
That 190 mile trip is sort of an indicator for you but don't get to terribly discouraged yet. Apparently you used about 5.54 gallons of gas. Those shut off sensors are not a extremely accurate device. Consider the following.
Just 3 tenths of a gallon either way would have resulted in 33 on the low side or 36.3 on the high side. I realize you had only the 190 miles and you had to work with that distance. Just keep in mind that the more gas a fill up takes, the more accurate the reading.
Cruise control can really affect mileage on hilly roads.
When hills are present I usually turn off the cruise and drive at my speed. That is usually 67 on flats, 70+ toward the bottom of hills if there is an uphill next. Kind of using gravity to help with a little extra speed to help get farther up the next before more throttle is required. Speed may drop to 60 or so by the top of the next one. Just try to not upset the guy behind me.
It is amazing what 3 mph up or down can do to fuel mileage.
I've got a feeling you will see improved mileage. If not you will know it is not the ILP !
Kip
i have hills too and rev up to 4-5k for a few stretches.. should i use premium gas? doe sit make for a smoother ride?
Anyway, my concern would be if my battery was discharged, does that mean I need to have this procedure done?
i was hoping at least 33-35 if 90% highway..
so i did the idle learn... i filled up at the gas station which gave me the best mpg.. 31.5... i was at half at 121.. my best was 170.. avergage 150.. i havenm't taken it in yet.. i just recently did the idle learn procedure and figure to give it a couple more fillups... but disappointed so far.. i've only read that it has help many... but never though that it would decrease my milage lol
Yes! Because disconnecting the battery or pulling any one of several fuses is part of the ILP. A dead battery would do the same thing. Sooner or later a battery is going to go dead, be replaced, or disconnected. ILP should be done when all is well again!
There is no reason the ILP would harm a cars mileage, unless something was done really wrong. Like maybe it had actually been done by the dealer, and someone tried it at home and ended up with a stupid computer.
Kip
I agree, However those procedures indicate the ILP has to be done. The one for the Pilot spells it out that if any one of several fuses is pulled and/or replaced or the battery is disconnected, replaced, etc.,an ILP needs to be done.
For the Fit I believe it says that a certain fuse has been disconnected to keep the battery from discharging. They need to connect the fuse, then in the next step do the ILP.
Batteries don't go dead very often, so it is not something that has to be done a lot!
Apparently idling the engine will not hurt it, as it is part of the new car get ready procedure.
If you do manage to discharge and need a jump start, or you need to replace the battery, the car will get you home just fine. Just remember to do the ILP first chance or you mileage may suffer.
Kip
I could see if you replaced the ECU, because you're physically removing the part that stored the idle data, but would it not seem logical that this sort of information would be written to a non-volitile form of memory (NVRAM vs VRAM), instead of one that requires constant juice to maintain its settings? The only reason I could think of, would be that they're (Honda) making the assumption that if you made some change to your system that required the battery to be disconnected, then it's very possible that your change has had an impact on the efficiency of the engine. Because of this, you would then need to re-do the ILP.
I just cannot see every tech out there, whether based at a Honda dealership or not, would remember to do the ILP, whenever they disconnect the battery.
I just talked to the Service Director at First Texas Honda. He checked with the Honda Tech Line. They say that the ILP has nothing to do with mileage. What it does is orient the Fit's computer to the particular location (Austin, TX vs. Denver) and some other stuff. When the battery is changed, the computer learns this stuff within a couple of days while driving.
Bubba
Fit Sport AT
28 MPG
You lost me there. How would doing an ILP tell the computer the car was in a particular location. Does it get confused if it leaves the location where the ILP took place?
I think someone is pulling your leg or you are trying to pull ours.
Idle learn procedure for the Pilot is on page 3 of this address..http://www.hondalac.com/service/Bulletins/x02-029e.pdf
I expect the ILP for the Fit to be similar. As you can see it needs to be done when any one (or more) of several things may happen.
Some folks on this forum have done it, as well as on the Pilot Forum and I believe the CR-V forum. With some, the MPG increased. With some it did not. If you are getting poor mileage it may help. It sure won't make it any worse. If you are already getting great mileage, it probably won't do anything.
Those of you who think it might be worth a try, might wish to do it! Those who think Honda doesn't know what they are doing or think it won't help your mileage, don't.
I know it helped
Kip
I think he meant in terms of sensor settings recorded by the ECM. So its like Austin has a lower altitude than Denver and lets say you ship a car from Austin to Denver and then you start the car, the car will choke or stall until the computer learns the new sensor settings.
I totally agree. The ECU/ECM should be storing the settings and should not be affected by a discharged battery. And if new settings need to take effect, the learn as you drive feature should take place.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As weather changes, the computer would continue to "learn," and adjust from winter to summer, etc.
If my interpretation is correct, doing the ILP will not help your mileage unless the dealer forgot to do it and the settings are particularly ill suited for your area. Just driving for a few days should then accomplish the same thing (which I think someone who posted earlier was told by their dealer - "just drive it").
AT, White/Black.
Can any one explain the references to "do not go over the VTEK if you want good mpg? I am guessing something happens at some RPM range to do something to motor to make it more powerful- how do I know when the VTEK kicks in? PS, I contracted to MSRP two weeks ago when the car arrives. Put $100 to hold it.
newayz, when vtec's 2nd stage turns on (from 3500rpm to redline on the fit) the valves of the engine increase in lift which allows more air into the engine, more air = more gas used, if you really need to accelerate quickly then vtec's where you wanna be, but if you're just cruising, there's no point in letting it stay above 3500 cuz you won't need all that power
this is a really laymans explanation so those who are more knowledgeble please don't slam me, if you want i can give a more detailed explanation but its really technical
Hence, fuel consumption would increase.
I agree that the ILP will not help mileage if it has already been done properly. Other than that you guys are going into a zone that is way above my head.
You may be right that the "ABC" does this or the "XYZ" does that. You may be right that doing something doesn't make sense. You may be right that if driven long enough everything will be OK.
Also you may be wrong! :sick:
After turning wrenches in the field for IBM for 30 years, I learned to do as the instructions said and things will be done correctly. Too many times I've had to bail a tech (CE) out of trouble that took short cuts or figured something wasn't really important to do.
The get ready procedures for the Pilot and the Fit say to do it!
Kip
35 MPG almost on the button.
Very reasonable. I think the Fit is the first car I've driven (or know of) that actually has EPA numbers that match reality. I'm sure that if I had a reasonable load and drove at 59mph on freeway I'd get 38mpg without a problem.
I usually drive 75/25 city/hwy. I get about 32mpg. I drive pretty fast and always use the air-con. I'm sure that if drove a little differently my avg mpg would go to about 34.
Those numbers, to me, are pretty amazing. Consider that the highest non-hybrid, non-diesel gas mileage car in the US last year was the Echo at 38mpg. (As measured by Consumer Reports.)
That Echo was 400 pounds lighter than the Fit and geared taller.
Oh, btw, I got some comments from other campers about the amazing amount of stuff we had crammed into the Fit.
i did the idle learn and after my first tank i got 24mpg with fill-up after dile learn.. I was getting 27-30 mpg on all highway driving.. was hoping for a few more mpg.. but i got a few less.. hope it improves over time.. sigh....
This entire trip was 90% highway with the rest 2-lane country roads.
A/C use: 50% - switched off during steep inclines
Highway speeds: varied by area 65-70 MPH. Using Scangauge I kept rpms just under VTEC level.
Non-highway speeds: usually 35-50 MPH
Other: ~4,000 ft change in elevation each way with some LONG climbs near Asheville. I got stuck in 2 traffic jams. On the first leg of the trip I encountered 1/2 hour of stop-n-go traffic due to road construction. On the return trip I had ~20 minutes of stop-n-go traffic due to an accident.
Observations: On a long trip, I find that the Fit is VERY comfortable. The engine just purrs the whole time without a complaint. Wind noise is so much less than my Altima was. I only had to downshift once the entire trip to 4th gear to make the steep 6% grade into Asheville. While maintaining the speed limit or only 10 MPH over, I passed most other vehicles in the twisty mountain passes. I noticed that the only vehicles taking these parts at top speed were sports cars, motorcycles, and . . . . my Honda Fit! I've driven that route in many other vehicles (Honda Civic, Toyota Tacoma, and Nissan Altima) and the Fit felt the most stable and secure on the road. It seems like it's on rails and won't slip out of control no matter what you do. It's one of the little pluses about it that I didn't realize until this trip.:D It's really fun. Give your Fit a try in the mountains!
A Great report!
Kip
I'm trying to assess what I've learned from reading this forum for months and my own experience after several talks with the dealer and Honda as well as performing the ILP.
While some people seemed to have had a useful boost in MPG after conducting their own ILP, the point has been made that following that procedure they were also more careful about their driving style. Lately many posts have focussed on the fuel saving benefits of sub-VTEC rpms, etc.
We did have only one tank of gas since I did the ILP and I drove much more meticulously and found a modest 2 MPG boost in pure highway driving. My current thinking is that my wife (primary Fit driver) as well as I should both make a committed effort to pay attention to and modify the many small moment to moment habits of our driving styles.
Has anyone used a Scangauge to serve as basically a visual tutor to reshape their driving - and if so, to what extent have they improved their mileage? I would be willing to install this (or a similar device) if we might possibly see a repeatable boost in MPG.
Thanks -
Andrew
Someone previously posted a report on exactly what you are proposing, and reported on exactly which driving habits of his were most affecting his mileage.
I've started keeping a log of my mileage with my present car (Isuzu Oasis) while I'm waiting for my Fit to arrive, hopefully near the end of October. That would give me a basis for evaluating the Fit's mileage, assuming I don't change my driving style. My mileage on the Oasis has ranged from 16 to 27 MPG for my normal driving style, depending on the mix of city/highway. I once got 30 MPG on a drive from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh where I kept to a steady 55 MPH, but I decided the boredom wasn't worth the gas I saved!
I'm also thinking a scangauge might be a worthwhile investment, not as a permanent addition to the car, but as a learning tool as you propose. Maybe I can split the cost with some friends who are also interested in learning how to drive in a more economical manner.
My average MPG was hovering in the 35 - 36 MPG range prior to that. After I started using the Scangauge and driving according to its information display my overall average has climbed up to 37.387 MPG. That is not just per tank but on my all-time average. A little over 1 month of Scangauge driving brought my average for 2-1/2 months up by that much! My average just including tanks since getting the Scangauge is 39.492 MPG.
Also, since getting the Scangauge, I have recorded 3 of my highest tanks ever - 44.178, 43.012, and 45.063 MPG!
It's not magic and it's not automatic. I am driving the speed limit, limiting rpms during shifting and cruising, keeping my tire pressures at 38 psi, and using the a/c frugally (maybe 50% of the time). Once in a while I will use gravity (coasting where the throttle is not necessary) and I never speed up unnecessarily just so I have to brake for a light.
At some point I will post some pictures of my Scangauge and show how it's installed.
At some point I will post some pictures of my Scangauge and show how it's installed"
Why would you need a device to tell you to drive like that? Aren't those common-sense ways to improve gas mileage?