In addition to all that, I drive according to what the Scangauge shows me are the optimum shift points, speed, rpms, throttle, etc.
I'm saying that the Scangauge alone didn't cause the improvement, but was part of several changes that helped me get my MPG up. The best thing about the Scangauge is that it gives you real-time feedback and can enforce good driving techniques.
@9949 miles used 262.77 US gallons for life time average 37.86mpg. High 44.78 Low 31.18. Never used any oil, first change @4850. Mileage seemed to improve about 8500, no big city driving. Great little car! Regards
After 600 miles we are averaging 24mpg. Most the driving in short trips less than 5 miles. No extended highway driving yet. Does this signal a problem or typical.
A gas engine is most inefficient when it's cold. It takes at least 15 minutes for it to fully warm up and begin to operate efficiently.
And in general accelerating from a dead stop (which you do more frequently in short trip driving) yields poor gas mileage. If you add city (or stop-n-go) type driving to frequent short trips you can't expect very good mileage at all. I wouldn't blame the Fit for 24 MPG, but your driving conditions.
While it should take less than 5 minutes for the coolant to warm to operating temperature and for the fuel/air mixture to lean out for maximum gas mileage, it does take the oil a lot longer to properly warm up, so you experience a bit of a decreased fuel efficiency during the oil's longer warm-up, because it is thicker when it is cold, hence harder to push around the engine and therefore more gas-consuming.
The poster said his/her average trips were 4 miles or so. Those are short enough that half their driving is probably done with the engine not at operating temperature, and that will be the cause of high gas consumption.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I agree with what you say, nippononly. Also, today's fuel injected cars are programmed to inject more fuel during the so-called "cold phase." While the actual figure varies, the very first 5 minutes after starting cold can easily burn 50%more gas than the 5 minutes after the computer has switched over to the optimum temperature mode, all other things equal.
I am new to this forum and have a new Honda Sport Fit with 5 speed manual transmission which has just 1400 miles. I have been filling the tank when it is about half empty because I've been eager to see how it does in terms of gas mileage. During the first 200 miles, I got 26.5 mpg in mostly city driving. However, since that time I have been consistently getting 34 - 37 mpg in similar driving conditions. In two trips that totalled 350 mpg consisting of primarily highway driving I averaged about 42 mpg. During these trips I averaged about 70 mph on the highway and had the air conditioner mostly turned on. My sense is that this car outperforms EPA estimates which surprises me.
The car is also a lot of fun to drive and the cargo and interior space is unreal for a car this size. It's a bit early to jump to conclusions, but I would have to say it is a winner. My only gripe is that so far I haven't find any roof racks from the likes of companies like Thule, Yakima, or anyone else made for this car.
should i use premium gas? doe sit make for a smoother ride?
Do not use premium, it will run no better than the 87 Octane (Regular) that your car was designed for. I'm not sure how you think premium gasoline would give you smoother ride characteristics.
You are right, I had my numbers backwards from an article I recently read. Simply stated though:
Using high-octane gas in a car designed for regular accomplishes little except more rapid combustion of your money. Some refuse to believe this, claiming, for example, that premium gives the family Toyota better mileage or more power. These people are in dreamland. Others say premium is purer or contains detergents that will cleanse your engine of uncouth deposits. Likewise misguided thinking--government regulations require detergents in all grades of gasoline. (BP Amoco, I notice, asserts that its premium gasoline contains more detergents than legally required; if you think that's worth 20 extra cents a gallon, be my guest.) Some automotive types claim that using premium in a car designed for regular will make the engine dirtier--something about deposits on the back side of the intake valves. I've also heard that slower-burning high-octane gas produces less power when used in ordinary cars. Believe what you like; the point is, don't assume "premium" means "better."
Go by the manual, the ENGINEERS of the car knew what they were talking about.
There are many different ratios of ethanol to gasoline...E5, E10 (gasohol), E15, E20, E85, and E100 (pure ethanol).
E5 and E10 are supposed to be OK for cars that were designed for pure gasoline, but fuel economy is usually adversely affected.
E10 (10% ethanol) gasohol is the most that should be put in the Fit according to the owner's manual. Some states have E15 (15% ethanol, 85% gasoline). I know there are some people on these forums who live in these states and have used this fuel...to the detriment of their fuel economy. E85 is the fuel commonly used for "flex-fuel vehicles" with 85% ethanol. Ratios like E20 and E100 are used in other countries like Brazil.
The Fit owner's manual says not use gasoline containing more than 10% ethanol or 15% MTBE.
This troubles me. Are there entire states where ONLY ethanol containing fuels are available? How would one know when filling up at the tank the MTBE or ethanol content? Or does one simply look for the 87 octane label and is that enough?
I would hate the thought of traveling somewhere to find that the only fuel available was going to wreck my car.
Gotta wonder why oil producing states like TX would be using ethanol. Maybe in the longrun the loss of MPG equals more fillups equals more money for them.
[jrlnc] wrote:It's not magic and it's not automatic. I am driving the speed limit, limiting rpms during shifting and cruising, keeping my tire pressures at 38 psi, and using the a/c frugally (maybe 50% of the time). Once in a while I will use gravity (coasting where the throttle is not necessary) and I never speed up unnecessarily just so I have to brake for a light.
At some point I will post some pictures of my Scangauge and show how it's installed"
fitman548 wrote:Why would you need a device to tell you to drive like that? Aren't those common-sense ways to improve gas mileage?
I agree that common sense driving is the Key to the best mileage. Some people have a knack for it, but most don't. As much as I have "COACHED" my wife, she still has a need to hurry to get in line at a stop sign, run too close behind other cars which requires brake/gas-brake/gas, and way too much throttle when accelerating. Thus I will generally get 2-5 better mileage than she does.
In days of yore, when the carburetor was king and car computers did not exist, several of the ECONOMY cars had a light on the dash that said "SHIFT" when it was the proper time. And they were handy.
I can see where the Scangauge would be a great device to teach exactly how much throttle to use for various operations, as well as what constant speed is best, when to shift a MT, and so on.
But, how does it teach people the importance of braking affecting mileage?
But, how does it teach people the importance of braking affecting mileage?
How true. What I tell myself is that every time I hit a brake pedal, I am converting the motive energy to heat, and I visualize that, if I brake unnecessarily, I am siphoning gas out of the tank and dumping it.
I am a Certified Energy Manager and have quite a bit of knowledge on Ethanol and other alternative fuels for the transportation industry.
Ethanol was recently Federally mandated by the U.S. Government to be the only octane enhancing and anti-knock addititive for gasoline. MBTE was the addititive previously used for this purpose until it was discovered to be a rather nasty carcinogen.
So, all the gasoline refiners in the U.S. had to transition to using Ethanol which created some initial supply and demand problems and helped spike gasoline prices earlier this year. The supply problem has since been corrected.
You are correct, 10% Ethanol is known to not cause any operational issues in automobiles. Percentages above this... well, let's just say that automobile manufacturers don't know for sure. Testing has been conducted and continues, but the results have not been released.
As a Mechanical Engineer, I would suspect that most late model automobiles and trucks (those produced in the past 10 years) can handle higher percentages of Ethanol with no long-term operational, mechanical, or driveability issues. How high a percentage you say? I can't provide you with a specific cutoff point, but would recommend not going above 25% Ethanol. That said, I have run 85% Ethanol (E85) in my 1999 Ford F150 Pickup truck over the past 24 months intermittently with no problems other than my "check engine" light illuminating (which I reset by disconnecting and reconnecting the negative terminal on the battery). This indicator light was due to the onboard engine management system detecting a lean fuel-air mixture and it's attempt to compensate by holding the fuel injectors open longer. Yes, fuel economy was lower on E85, about a 15% reduction.
In 2005, Minnesota passed legislation requiring all gasoline sold in the state to contain 20% Ethanol by 2010. They relied on testing conducted by the University of Minnesota which found no driveability, mechanical, or operational problems with late model automobiles and trucks running this mixture.
Honda and BMW are investing millions of dollars developing and launching Hydrogen powered automobiles. Yes, they have working versions right now. Honda even has a special Hydrogen refueling station that would install in your garage which also contains a fuel cell and would not only provide hydrogen fuel for your car, but also electricity for your home.
New technological and environmental problem with Hydrogen... no carbon emissions, but it does produce water vapor. Water vapor has a larger impact on global warming caused by the greenhouse effect than carbon dioxide. Water vapor is a much larger greenhouse gas contributor than carbon dioxide. So, by using hydrogen in place of carbon based fuels (like gasoline), we could contribute even more to global warming than we do today.
If you are interested in learning more about this conundrum, I recommend you look for resources on the worldwide web.
I live in central Illinois, and gasahol (10% ethanol mix) has been sold here for over 20 years, both in regular and premium octane blends. It's difficult - at best - to find a station here which offers pure gasoline anymore. Of course, we live in the "corn belt," hence the emphasis on ethanol blends.
Since I've used ethanol blend gasolines since 1985, I can attest that it does no apparent damage to engines. In fact, one of my cars has over 250K on the clock (a 1985 model), and nothing has been done to the engine except for normal preventive maintenance. It has used 10% ethanol blends since its purchase in April 1985.
Previously worked for Xcel Energy prior to the bloodletting which resulted in reducing the headcount from approximately 15,000 to less than 12,000 in about 18 months.
I work as a Product Marketing Manager for a sensors and safety systems company presently.
I think we can solve the Twin Cities traffic problems by building additional express lanes ABOVE the existing highways. Start with Hwy 169. Start in Anoka, one exit in Osseo, one at 394 and one at 494 in the south. If you need to jump on and off at more frequent exits, utilize the old lower ground level set of lanes. Just a thought...
This troubles me. Are there entire states where ONLY ethanol containing fuels are available? How would one know when filling up at the tank the MTBE or ethanol content? Or does one simply look for the 87 octane label and is that enough?
I live in CT and travel throughout the state and Western MA -- the only fuel available is a 10% (max) ethanol blend. This replaced the MTBE which had been previously used.
Every gas pump has a sticker indicating the ethanol percentage. Buying fuel without ethanol isn't an option in S. New England.
But, how does it teach people the importance of braking affecting mileage?
Considered getting wifey a scangauge? Make it a "gift"? Or, make it a "gift for yourself" so when she drives your car its there? (not sure whose car it is etc, and more a rhetorical question/suggestion)
I hope that after 20 years of driving stick...I got it down.
Yes, fuel economy was lower on E85, about a 15% reduction.
Thank you for all the GREAT info. I could kiss you! jk (I'm a girl if that helps. lol )
OK so what I want to know is this...if the E85 is bringing about a 15% loss of mpgs.... does the 10% ethanol give similar mpgs loss? (10% loss? )
It makes you wonder because if you pay 15% more to lose 15% mpgs...ok, the tradeoff is cancer and yes that is important.
I just want to know thats what I am getting.
I have to wonder if there are other states that are using the 15% ethanol by mandate, so that if I go see a friend in mass again I can fill up in NY before I get up there...that kind of thing.
Very interesting stuff wrt global warming from hydrogen cells. Hard to figure the better tradeoff....kill the earth sooner due to global warning or get ourselves into oil addiction on a global scale.
Let's see if I can help shed some light on the fuel economy reduction with Ethanol.
First off, Ethanol has approximately 30% less energy content than straight gasoline. So, using basic physics you can see that if you ran a vehicle on Ethanol and another duplicate vehicle on gasoline, the gasoline powered vehicle will travel farther on the same quantity of fuel as the Ethanol powered vehicle.
You ask what percentage difference does the 10% Ethanol blended gasoline make to average fuel economy...
If my math is correct: 10% x 30% = 3%. (10% Ethanol in a gallon of gasoline, 30% energy reduction). So, fuel economy would be decreased by about 3% using 10% Ethanol blended gasoline compared to non-ethanol blended gasoline.
I had an interesting observation which seems to reinforce this hypothesis, when I picked up my blaze orange Fit 5-speed manual July 31, it had a "full" tank of Honda supplied gasoline. I drove off the lot and topped off the tank by adding 1 more gallon. That first tank I achieved 38.8 MPG. The next 8 tanks I averaged 36 MPG, the 9th was 37.5 MPG, and I am on track to hit 36 MPG on the 10th tank.
I believe that the Fits may come from Japan with full fuel tanks (or reasonably full). The reason for this is that it is much safer to transport vehicles with full tanks than empty or close to empty. Fuel vapor is much more flammable than liquid, and I would think that the shipping companies (sea going car container ships, railroads, etc.) would require full fuel tanks for shipping safety.
I spent over 22 years in the Air Force and Air National Guard (retired 2005- Aircraft Maintenance Squadron Commander and Executive Officer) and I can confirm we never hauled any vehicles with empty fuel tanks. We required them to be topped off before loading onto our cargo aircraft.
Sorry to digress off topic...
No, I am not a geek, I work in Marketing, but have the unique mix of engineering-technical experience in addition to business acumen.
At 42, I am probably not the target age for the Fit, but I love it anyway! It was actually my 2nd choice, I was looking at a 2007 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. Dealers marked them way up ($20k to $30k over MSRP), and I decided to be practical and wait for the Shelby pricing to calm down over the next 2-3 years while still driving a somewhat "fun" car. I think I made the right choice!
I have utilized commercial car shipping companies before, and their requirement has always been that you empty the gas tank down to the fumes if possible, before you deliver the car to the dock. They want those tanks as emtpy as possible for shipping.
Also, as far as I know new cars are delivered to the port (this is certainly true for Toyotas, don't know about Honda's practice) with about a gallon of gas in them, just enough to start them up and run them the couple of miles to get them delivered to dealers. The dealers fill them with gas at the time of sale - it is one of the "bonuses" for the buyer listed on the factory sticker for the car, and the dealers get reimbursed for this cost by the manufacturer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Let's see if I can help shed some light on the fuel economy reduction with Ethanol.
First off, Ethanol has approximately 30% less energy content than straight gasoline. So, using basic physics you can see that if you ran a vehicle on Ethanol and another duplicate vehicle on gasoline, the gasoline powered vehicle will travel farther on the same quantity of fuel as the Ethanol powered vehicle.
You ask what percentage difference does the 10% Ethanol blended gasoline make to average fuel economy...
If my math is correct: 10% x 30% = 3%. (10% Ethanol in a gallon of gasoline, 30% energy reduction). So, fuel economy would be decreased by about 3% using 10% Ethanol blended gasoline compared to non-ethanol blended gasoline.
By the same math, a blend of 15% ethanol would yeild a 4.5% loss of mpgs. For a fit running 35-40 mpgs with good mileage, that would be loss of a mile or two. I could sink my teeth into that and say it is definitely worth it to cut down on cancer risks here in the USA.
I had an interesting observation which seems to reinforce this hypothesis, when I picked up my blaze orange Fit 5-speed manual July 31, it had a "full" tank of Honda supplied gasoline. I drove off the lot and topped off the tank by adding 1 more gallon. That first tank I achieved 38.8 MPG. The next 8 tanks I averaged 36 MPG, the 9th was 37.5 MPG, and I am on track to hit 36 MPG on the 10th tank.
I believe that the Fits may come from Japan with full fuel tanks (or reasonably full). The reason for this is that it is much safer to transport vehicles with full tanks than empty or close to empty. Fuel vapor is much more flammable than liquid, and I would think that the shipping companies (sea going car container ships, railroads, etc.) would require full fuel tanks for shipping safety.
I spent over 22 years in the Air Force and Air National Guard (retired 2005- Aircraft Maintenance Squadron Commander and Executive Officer) and I can confirm we never hauled any vehicles with empty fuel tanks. We required them to be topped off before loading onto our cargo aircraft.
Sorry to digress off topic...
That was completely on topic as far as I am concerned. At first I couldnt figure a good reason to transport the cars with full tanks but what you say makes sense, and the fact that this is a tried and true sort of protocol makes it even more sensible. Thanks. No, I am not a geek, I work in Marketing, but have the unique mix of engineering-technical experience in addition to business acumen.
At 42, I am probably not the target age for the Fit, but I love it anyway! It was actually my 2nd choice, I was looking at a 2007 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. Dealers marked them way up ($20k to $30k over MSRP), and I decided to be practical and wait for the Shelby pricing to calm down over the next 2-3 years while still driving a somewhat "fun" car. I think I made the right choice!
I guess at just under 40, I am prob not the target age either. Thats ok tho. I hope that I am making the right choice as well to buy it.
Still, it is important to me that I am not going to wind up traveling thru some corn belt somewhere unable to get fuel that will keep the car running great. I might have to doublecheck which states are mandating what and what my own state requires.
Another minute curiosity....how do you know what you get at the pump? Is a sticker saying 87 octane going to contain ethanol and if so what percent etc? Ethanol would HAVE to have some sort of required labeling, right? HOw do you know what blends you have where you are traveling? prob silly question I know but had to ask.
Oh...and I dont think you are a geek.
I find a brain is the most attractive feature a guy could have next to his fit. lol jk
New technological and environmental problem with Hydrogen... no carbon emissions, but it does produce water vapor. Water vapor has a larger impact on global warming caused by the greenhouse effect than carbon dioxide. Water vapor is a much larger greenhouse gas contributor than carbon dioxide. So, by using hydrogen in place of carbon based fuels (like gasoline), we could contribute even more to global warming than we do today.
tgun--thanks for the great info.
Water vapor a problem? Are we talking about what comes out of the tailpipe? Wasn't this one of the selling points for the cleaner technology--you can drink the exhaust?!!! Is it impossible to capture and reuse? Here in TX we could use all the "new" water we can find, so I'm just curious.
I can imagine a little pipe coming out of the exhaust with captured water vapor that is then recirculated into a chamber, refrigerated and dispensed from the dash as iced drinking water. A wet bar in the dash!! Now that would put Honda on the map. Cup holders, bah!
I have had my 2007 Honda Fit Since May '06 and tank after tank (after tank) I get no better than 18 mpg city driving. Granted - lots of stops and starts where I live - but it is level surface driving, and I am not at all heavy on the pedal (quite the opposite). I had it "road tested" and put on the computer at a Honda dealer. They said they got a combined city and hwy rate of 26 mpg, and the computer said there was no problem within. Thereafter, I still get 18 mpg in the city. I use Chevron 87 octane every time. This is very disappointing, and Honda's response to the problem is even more disappointing. Does anyone have any thoughts on this.
That is very low. My worst city mileage is still over 30mpg. Have you tried filling up the tank using a different gas company, driving 100 miles strictly on the highway, then filling up again? Divide the gallons put in on the 2nd fill-up with the miles driven. Let us know how many miles you get. My worst with 10% ethanol was 34-35mpg. Normal is 38-41mpg strictly on the hwy for my Fit.
Not to excuse the car, but it is possible for a car as economical as the Fit to get that kind of mileage. I have seen people in Japan reporting that kind of mileage with their Fits. But in those cases, people usually got stuck in extreme traffic jams in which no car would get a good mileage (I once was in a situation in Tokyo that it took me nearly 8 hours to travel 45 miles).
If your situation is nothing out of the ordinary, then I would say your mileage is abnormal for a Fit.
Even though it would cost you money, have you ever thought of getting something like a Scangage that gives you the real-time mileage reading? If your car is malfunctioning, Scangage would show the abnormally low mileage real-time, which can strengthen your case against Honda.
I also have a Storm Silver Sport Fit A/T. I just turned 5000 miles. I was initially getting around 27-28 mpg with local driving. In August I went on my first real road trip - 1800 miles round trip from Poughkeepsie (Hudson Valley), New York to Bloomington, Indiana. For the trip, I averaged around 37 mpg. The really good news is that since that trip, I have been averaging 30-31 mpg consistently with local driving and most trips less than 10 miles.
Danny, Your MPG are about like my Fit A/T. My MPG were 26 - 28 MPG till about a month ago. Then I started averaging 30 MPH on 3 tanks. My last tank was 31.5 MPG. I'm happy now . boatfloyd
This is my best ever. I am just shy of 7000 miles, and am still on the original oil, though I hit 15% and the minder came on, so I'm going today for an oil change. Synthetic or standard???
Haven't posted in a while, but still loving my Fit. I've noticed a significant change in my mileage in the past several tanks. I was getting no better than 27mpg during the summer and was a little discouraged, to say the least.
In late August I took the car on a 6 hour road trip to the beach in NC. Before leaving, I bought more expensive gas (BP), upped the tire pressure to 34-35psi, and I got over 40mpg for the trip. The car was loaded with luggage and beach stuff. I was thrilled an encouraged.
My car now has over 4,500 miles on it and I see the change in city driving too. I get more like 31-33 in city driving now. Not running the AC as much has somehting to do with it. But I'm feeling like the most significant change is coming from the tire pressure. At 32psi the tires even appear too low...it's noticable to me. I filled up with cheaper gas this time to run a test. So far mileage is pacing about the same as last tank. 33mpg.
Feeling a MAJOR need to change the wiper blades!!! Gee whiz!. Unless it's a torrential downpour, they are so friggin' NOISY! Anybody else notice this?
Feeling a MAJOR need to change the wiper blades!!! Gee whiz!. Unless it's a torrential downpour, they are so friggin' NOISY! Anybody else notice this?
I have the noisy wiper blades too that "sometimes" I do intermittent even in pouring rain because that squeaking noise is so irritating. The wiper blades sometimes leaves a film that I thought was scratches at first but it goes away with windex.
On a good note, with gas prices going down, my last full tank fill up (I run it till its on fumes) only cost me $20.04. I averaged my consistent 38mpg on the highway. :P
I live in Texas (read ethanol in gas) and was averaging about 28 mpg in 75% city driving with my blue Sport A/T. After about 6,000 miles I noticed I was consistently getting closer to 30 mpg. I think it will continue to improve until fully broken in. Also just changed the oil for the first time after 7,500 miles (5% oil life remaining). What are you seeing in terms of oil life on first and second oil change intervals? Will it go 7500 miles every time?
I got Fit Sport with 5sp manual. I've been averaging between 34 and 35 mpg with mainly 80% highway at 70-80mph and 20% city at 35-40mph. I keep telling myself that I'm going to drive conservatively for one tank just to see if I can get higher but the car is just too fun to drive agressively. Just broke the 2000 mile mark so maybe the next tank. I have a friend who's an engineer at the engine plant here in Ohio and he says I should be able to break 40mpg if I drive conservatively.
City driving takes a toll on the gas mileage...even at 20%. However, with 80% freeway and 20% city, a lighter foot will yield an improvement of at least a few mpg. I have broken the 40 mpg mark twice with 41.5 and 42 mpg and those were both almost 100% highway miles at about 70-75 mph. One thing you have to watch for since you have the 5MT (as I do) is the higher rpms at freeway speeds. Activation of the VTEC system occurs around 75 mph (approximately 3500 rpm) and running the engine with the VTEC activated will use more fuel.
I dont understand this 30 31 MPG. I just picked up two honda fits, one a sport. On the first fill up I put in 7.8 gallons and drove 344 miles, and on the other car, I put in 8.1 gallons and drove 340 miles. Thats between 42 and 44 miles per gallon. You guys must be lead foots.
"On the first fill up I put in 7.8 gallons and drove 344 miles, and on the other car, I put in 8.1 gallons and drove 340 miles. Thats between 42 and 44 miles per gallon. You guys must be lead foots."
Approximately how much of this was highway driving, and what transmissions do the cars have?
I dont understand this 30 31 MPG. I just picked up two honda fits, one a sport. On the first fill up I put in 7.8 gallons and drove 344 miles, and on the other car, I put in 8.1 gallons and drove 340 miles. Thats between 42 and 44 miles per gallon. You guys must be lead foots.
In all due respect, I would have to see that! How you refilled and the type of driving !
I just find that very hard to believe, unless you were on perfectly flat or downhill, with a tail wind and a steady 55 mph. No traffic or stops, and an incomplete fill up might do it on TWO cars you just got!
That would probably make you the all time mileage KING on this forum.
thanks for that. I don't frequent that other forum, so was glad to see this. So silly how easy the fix is. I've been living with it for 6 months. Crazy!
Picked up my new Fit Tuesday. Sport, AT. Took it direct to gas station & it took 1.3 gallons to actually fill the tank. Only have 150 miles so far. Love the car. Plenty of power etc. I have driven small cars to commute to work since 1979 or 1980-Ford Fiesta & Ford Festiva, & 4 cyl mustang. I think some peoples poor milage is they are driving at TOO LOW RPM's! Noted some posted they keep it prox 1700 RPM. You are not in the power curve. It looks like this car need to be in the 2200 to 2500 RPM to get max milage, and at 2500 RPM, you are almost 65MPH. I put a lot of miles on a car.- Will post actual MPG etc as I get more miles.-yes- I did inflate tires to 40#. Also went over dealer prep list, and the ILP is actually on their car prep list!
need to be in the 2200 to 2500 RPM to get max milage
hmmmm...for example, if you're on a flat surface driving at 40mph in 5th gear at 1800rpm or 4th gear at 2300rpm, which would give you the better mpg? I'd say 5th gear at 1800rpm would give better mpg, but 4th at 2300rpm more power/torque.
Comments
I'm saying that the Scangauge alone didn't cause the improvement, but was part of several changes that helped me get my MPG up. The best thing about the Scangauge is that it gives you real-time feedback and can enforce good driving techniques.
Thanks
And in general accelerating from a dead stop (which you do more frequently in short trip driving) yields poor gas mileage. If you add city (or stop-n-go) type driving to frequent short trips you can't expect very good mileage at all. I wouldn't blame the Fit for 24 MPG, but your driving conditions.
While it should take less than 5 minutes for the coolant to warm to operating temperature and for the fuel/air mixture to lean out for maximum gas mileage, it does take the oil a lot longer to properly warm up, so you experience a bit of a decreased fuel efficiency during the oil's longer warm-up, because it is thicker when it is cold, hence harder to push around the engine and therefore more gas-consuming.
The poster said his/her average trips were 4 miles or so. Those are short enough that half their driving is probably done with the engine not at operating temperature, and that will be the cause of high gas consumption.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am new to this forum and have a new Honda Sport Fit with 5 speed manual transmission which has just 1400 miles. I have been filling the tank when it is about half empty because I've been eager to see how it does in terms of gas mileage. During the first 200 miles, I got 26.5 mpg in mostly city driving. However, since that time I have been consistently getting 34 - 37 mpg in similar driving conditions. In two trips that totalled 350 mpg consisting of primarily highway driving I averaged about 42 mpg. During these trips I averaged about 70 mph on the highway and had the air conditioner mostly turned on. My sense is that this car outperforms EPA estimates which surprises me.
The car is also a lot of fun to drive and the cargo and interior space is unreal for a car this size. It's a bit early to jump to conclusions, but I would have to say it is a winner. My only gripe is that so far I haven't find any roof racks from the likes of companies like Thule, Yakima, or anyone else made for this car.
Steve
9.341 gallons (the light came on)
35.77 MGP. Freeway, stop and go, all ac
Sport AT
Do not use premium, it will run no better than the 87 Octane (Regular) that your car was designed for. I'm not sure how you think premium gasoline would give you smoother ride characteristics.
Go by the owner's manual!
Using high-octane gas in a car designed for regular accomplishes little except more rapid combustion of your money. Some refuse to believe this, claiming, for example, that premium gives the family Toyota better mileage or more power. These people are in dreamland. Others say premium is purer or contains detergents that will cleanse your engine of uncouth deposits. Likewise misguided thinking--government regulations require detergents in all grades of gasoline. (BP Amoco, I notice, asserts that its premium gasoline contains more detergents than legally required; if you think that's worth 20 extra cents a gallon, be my guest.) Some automotive types claim that using premium in a car designed for regular will make the engine dirtier--something about deposits on the back side of the intake valves. I've also heard that slower-burning high-octane gas produces less power when used in ordinary cars. Believe what you like; the point is, don't assume "premium" means "better."
Go by the manual, the ENGINEERS of the car knew what they were talking about.
There are many different ratios of ethanol to gasoline...E5, E10 (gasohol), E15, E20, E85, and E100 (pure ethanol).
E5 and E10 are supposed to be OK for cars that were designed for pure gasoline, but fuel economy is usually adversely affected.
E10 (10% ethanol) gasohol is the most that should be put in the Fit according to the owner's manual. Some states have E15 (15% ethanol, 85% gasoline). I know there are some people on these forums who live in these states and have used this fuel...to the detriment of their fuel economy.
E85 is the fuel commonly used for "flex-fuel vehicles" with 85% ethanol. Ratios like E20 and E100 are used in other countries like Brazil.
The Fit owner's manual says not use gasoline containing more than 10% ethanol or 15% MTBE.
This troubles me. Are there entire states where ONLY ethanol containing fuels are available? How would one know when filling up at the tank the MTBE or ethanol content? Or does one simply look for the 87 octane label and is that enough?
I would hate the thought of traveling somewhere to find that the only fuel available was going to wreck my car.
Gotta wonder why oil producing states like TX would be using ethanol. Maybe in the longrun the loss of MPG equals more fillups equals more money for them.
Hmmff...
If anyone knows the answers, PLEASE POST THEM!
At some point I will post some pictures of my Scangauge and show how it's installed"
fitman548 wrote: Why would you need a device to tell you to drive like that? Aren't those common-sense ways to improve gas mileage?
I agree that common sense driving is the Key to the best mileage. Some people have a knack for it, but most don't.
As much as I have "COACHED" my wife, she still has a need to hurry to get in line at a stop sign, run too close behind other cars which requires brake/gas-brake/gas, and way too much throttle when accelerating. Thus I will generally get 2-5 better mileage than she does.
In days of yore, when the carburetor was king and car computers did not exist, several of the ECONOMY cars had a light on the dash that said "SHIFT" when it was the proper time. And they were handy.
I can see where the Scangauge would be a great device to teach exactly how much throttle to use for various operations, as well as what constant speed is best, when to shift a MT, and so on.
But, how does it teach people the importance of braking affecting mileage?
Kip
How true. What I tell myself is that every time I hit a brake pedal, I am converting the motive energy to heat, and I visualize that, if I brake unnecessarily, I am siphoning gas out of the tank and dumping it.
I am a Certified Energy Manager and have quite a bit of knowledge on Ethanol and other alternative fuels for the transportation industry.
Ethanol was recently Federally mandated by the U.S. Government to be the only octane enhancing and anti-knock addititive for gasoline. MBTE was the addititive previously used for this purpose until it was discovered to be a rather nasty carcinogen.
So, all the gasoline refiners in the U.S. had to transition to using Ethanol which created some initial supply and demand problems and helped spike gasoline prices earlier this year. The supply problem has since been corrected.
You are correct, 10% Ethanol is known to not cause any operational issues in automobiles. Percentages above this... well, let's just say that automobile manufacturers don't know for sure. Testing has been conducted and continues, but the results have not been released.
As a Mechanical Engineer, I would suspect that most late model automobiles and trucks (those produced in the past 10 years) can handle higher percentages of Ethanol with no long-term operational, mechanical, or driveability issues. How high a percentage you say? I can't provide you with a specific cutoff point, but would recommend not going above 25% Ethanol. That said, I have run 85% Ethanol (E85) in my 1999 Ford F150 Pickup truck over the past 24 months intermittently with no problems other than my "check engine" light illuminating (which I reset by disconnecting and reconnecting the negative terminal on the battery). This indicator light was due to the onboard engine management system detecting a lean fuel-air mixture and it's attempt to compensate by holding the fuel injectors open longer. Yes, fuel economy was lower on E85, about a 15% reduction.
In 2005, Minnesota passed legislation requiring all gasoline sold in the state to contain 20% Ethanol by 2010. They relied on testing conducted by the University of Minnesota which found no driveability, mechanical, or operational problems with late model automobiles and trucks running this mixture.
Honda and BMW are investing millions of dollars developing and launching Hydrogen powered automobiles. Yes, they have working versions right now. Honda even has a special Hydrogen refueling station that would install in your garage which also contains a fuel cell and would not only provide hydrogen fuel for your car, but also electricity for your home.
New technological and environmental problem with Hydrogen... no carbon emissions, but it does produce water vapor. Water vapor has a larger impact on global warming caused by the greenhouse effect than carbon dioxide. Water vapor is a much larger greenhouse gas contributor than carbon dioxide. So, by using hydrogen in place of carbon based fuels (like gasoline), we could contribute even more to global warming than we do today.
If you are interested in learning more about this conundrum, I recommend you look for resources on the worldwide web.
Since I've used ethanol blend gasolines since 1985, I can attest that it does no apparent damage to engines. In fact, one of my cars has over 250K on the clock (a 1985 model), and nothing has been done to the engine except for normal preventive maintenance. It has used 10% ethanol blends since its purchase in April 1985.
You asked if I worked for MNDoT, no I do not.
Previously worked for Xcel Energy prior to the bloodletting which resulted in reducing the headcount from approximately 15,000 to less than 12,000 in about 18 months.
I work as a Product Marketing Manager for a sensors and safety systems company presently.
I think we can solve the Twin Cities traffic problems by building additional express lanes ABOVE the existing highways. Start with Hwy 169. Start in Anoka, one exit in Osseo, one at 394 and one at 494 in the south. If you need to jump on and off at more frequent exits, utilize the old lower ground level set of lanes. Just a thought...
I live in CT and travel throughout the state and Western MA -- the only fuel available is a 10% (max) ethanol blend. This replaced the MTBE which had been previously used.
Every gas pump has a sticker indicating the ethanol percentage. Buying fuel without ethanol isn't an option in S. New England.
But, how does it teach people the importance of braking affecting mileage?
Considered getting wifey a scangauge?
I hope that after 20 years of driving stick...I got it down.
Thank you for all the GREAT info. I could kiss you! jk (I'm a girl if that helps.
OK so what I want to know is this...if the E85 is bringing about a 15% loss of mpgs.... does the 10% ethanol give similar mpgs loss? (10% loss? )
It makes you wonder because if you pay 15% more to lose 15% mpgs...ok, the tradeoff is cancer and yes that is important.
I just want to know thats what I am getting.
I have to wonder if there are other states that are using the 15% ethanol by mandate, so that if I go see a friend in mass again I can fill up in NY before I get up there...that kind of thing.
Very interesting stuff wrt global warming from hydrogen cells. Hard to figure the better tradeoff....kill the earth sooner due to global warning or get ourselves into oil addiction on a global scale.
:::ahems and keeps it non political:::
thanks for the compliment! lol
Let's see if I can help shed some light on the fuel economy reduction with Ethanol.
First off, Ethanol has approximately 30% less energy content than straight gasoline. So, using basic physics you can see that if you ran a vehicle on Ethanol and another duplicate vehicle on gasoline, the gasoline powered vehicle will travel farther on the same quantity of fuel as the Ethanol powered vehicle.
You ask what percentage difference does the 10% Ethanol blended gasoline make to average fuel economy...
If my math is correct: 10% x 30% = 3%. (10% Ethanol in a gallon of gasoline, 30% energy reduction). So, fuel economy would be decreased by about 3% using 10% Ethanol blended gasoline compared to non-ethanol blended gasoline.
I had an interesting observation which seems to reinforce this hypothesis, when I picked up my blaze orange Fit 5-speed manual July 31, it had a "full" tank of Honda supplied gasoline. I drove off the lot and topped off the tank by adding 1 more gallon. That first tank I achieved 38.8 MPG. The next 8 tanks I averaged 36 MPG, the 9th was 37.5 MPG, and I am on track to hit 36 MPG on the 10th tank.
I believe that the Fits may come from Japan with full fuel tanks (or reasonably full). The reason for this is that it is much safer to transport vehicles with full tanks than empty or close to empty. Fuel vapor is much more flammable than liquid, and I would think that the shipping companies (sea going car container ships, railroads, etc.) would require full fuel tanks for shipping safety.
I spent over 22 years in the Air Force and Air National Guard (retired 2005- Aircraft Maintenance Squadron Commander and Executive Officer) and I can confirm we never hauled any vehicles with empty fuel tanks. We required them to be topped off before loading onto our cargo aircraft.
Sorry to digress off topic...
No, I am not a geek, I work in Marketing, but have the unique mix of engineering-technical experience in addition to business acumen.
At 42, I am probably not the target age for the Fit, but I love it anyway! It was actually my 2nd choice, I was looking at a 2007 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. Dealers marked them way up ($20k to $30k over MSRP), and I decided to be practical and wait for the Shelby pricing to calm down over the next 2-3 years while still driving a somewhat "fun" car. I think I made the right choice!
Also, as far as I know new cars are delivered to the port (this is certainly true for Toyotas, don't know about Honda's practice) with about a gallon of gas in them, just enough to start them up and run them the couple of miles to get them delivered to dealers. The dealers fill them with gas at the time of sale - it is one of the "bonuses" for the buyer listed on the factory sticker for the car, and the dealers get reimbursed for this cost by the manufacturer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Not much else to report. Car runs like a top.
thanks for the compliment! lol
Let's see if I can help shed some light on the fuel economy reduction with Ethanol.
First off, Ethanol has approximately 30% less energy content than straight gasoline. So, using basic physics you can see that if you ran a vehicle on Ethanol and another duplicate vehicle on gasoline, the gasoline powered vehicle will travel farther on the same quantity of fuel as the Ethanol powered vehicle.
You ask what percentage difference does the 10% Ethanol blended gasoline make to average fuel economy...
If my math is correct: 10% x 30% = 3%. (10% Ethanol in a gallon of gasoline, 30% energy reduction). So, fuel economy would be decreased by about 3% using 10% Ethanol blended gasoline compared to non-ethanol blended gasoline.
By the same math, a blend of 15% ethanol would yeild a 4.5% loss of mpgs. For a fit running 35-40 mpgs with good mileage, that would be loss of a mile or two. I could sink my teeth into that and say it is definitely worth it to cut down on cancer risks here in the USA.
I had an interesting observation which seems to reinforce this hypothesis, when I picked up my blaze orange Fit 5-speed manual July 31, it had a "full" tank of Honda supplied gasoline. I drove off the lot and topped off the tank by adding 1 more gallon. That first tank I achieved 38.8 MPG. The next 8 tanks I averaged 36 MPG, the 9th was 37.5 MPG, and I am on track to hit 36 MPG on the 10th tank.
I believe that the Fits may come from Japan with full fuel tanks (or reasonably full). The reason for this is that it is much safer to transport vehicles with full tanks than empty or close to empty. Fuel vapor is much more flammable than liquid, and I would think that the shipping companies (sea going car container ships, railroads, etc.) would require full fuel tanks for shipping safety.
I spent over 22 years in the Air Force and Air National Guard (retired 2005- Aircraft Maintenance Squadron Commander and Executive Officer) and I can confirm we never hauled any vehicles with empty fuel tanks. We required them to be topped off before loading onto our cargo aircraft.
Sorry to digress off topic...
That was completely on topic as far as I am concerned.
No, I am not a geek, I work in Marketing, but have the unique mix of engineering-technical experience in addition to business acumen.
At 42, I am probably not the target age for the Fit, but I love it anyway! It was actually my 2nd choice, I was looking at a 2007 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500. Dealers marked them way up ($20k to $30k over MSRP), and I decided to be practical and wait for the Shelby pricing to calm down over the next 2-3 years while still driving a somewhat "fun" car. I think I made the right choice!
I guess at just under 40, I am prob not the target age either. Thats ok tho. I hope that I am making the right choice as well to buy it.
Still, it is important to me that I am not going to wind up traveling thru some corn belt somewhere unable to get fuel that will keep the car running great. I might have to doublecheck which states are mandating what and what my own state requires.
Another minute curiosity....how do you know what you get at the pump? Is a sticker saying 87 octane going to contain ethanol and if so what percent etc? Ethanol would HAVE to have some sort of required labeling, right? HOw do you know what blends you have where you are traveling? prob silly question I know but had to ask.
Oh...and I dont think you are a geek.
I find a brain is the most attractive feature a guy could have next to his fit. lol jk
Steve-- check out fitfreak.net
There are threads there about roof racks, I believe Thule. Good options are available.
tgun--thanks for the great info.
Water vapor a problem? Are we talking about what comes out of the tailpipe? Wasn't this one of the selling points for the cleaner technology--you can drink the exhaust?!!!
Is it impossible to capture and reuse? Here in TX we could use all the "new" water we can find, so I'm just curious.
I can imagine a little pipe coming out of the exhaust with captured water vapor that is then recirculated into a chamber, refrigerated and dispensed from the dash as iced drinking water. A wet bar in the dash!! Now that would put Honda on the map. Cup holders, bah!
If your situation is nothing out of the ordinary, then I would say your mileage is abnormal for a Fit.
Even though it would cost you money, have you ever thought of getting something like a Scangage that gives you the real-time mileage reading? If your car is malfunctioning, Scangage would show the abnormally low mileage real-time, which can strengthen your case against Honda.
boatfloyd
Danny
Your MPG are about like my Fit A/T. My MPG were 26 - 28 MPG till about a month ago. Then I started averaging 30 MPH on 3 tanks. My last tank was 31.5 MPG. I'm happy now
boatfloyd
37.9 MPG. Sport A/T, 70% highway.
This is my best ever. I am just shy of 7000 miles, and am still on the original oil, though I hit 15% and the minder came on, so I'm going today for an oil change.
Synthetic or standard???
This happened because there were a lot of traffic jams and a lot of city driving (70%).
Generally, I get around 29-31 with 30% City driving and 70% Higway.
So it is clearly the city driving that takes its toll.
My fit is a 1.5 AT with CVT transmission, used in Shenzhen, China. the board computer is precise within 10%
In late August I took the car on a 6 hour road trip to the beach in NC. Before leaving, I bought more expensive gas (BP), upped the tire pressure to 34-35psi, and I got over 40mpg for the trip. The car was loaded with luggage and beach stuff. I was thrilled an encouraged.
My car now has over 4,500 miles on it and I see the change in city driving too. I get more like 31-33 in city driving now. Not running the AC as much has somehting to do with it. But I'm feeling like the most significant change is coming from the tire pressure. At 32psi the tires even appear too low...it's noticable to me. I filled up with cheaper gas this time to run a test. So far mileage is pacing about the same as last tank. 33mpg.
Feeling a MAJOR need to change the wiper blades!!! Gee whiz!. Unless it's a torrential downpour, they are so friggin' NOISY! Anybody else notice this?
I have the noisy wiper blades too that "sometimes" I do intermittent even in pouring rain because that squeaking noise is so irritating. The wiper blades sometimes leaves a film that I thought was scratches at first but it goes away with windex.
On a good note, with gas prices going down, my last full tank fill up (I run it till its on fumes) only cost me $20.04. I averaged my consistent 38mpg on the highway. :P
On that note, try this to fix your noisy wipers
http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8334
Also just changed the oil for the first time after 7,500 miles (5% oil life remaining). What are you seeing in terms of oil life on first and second oil change intervals? Will it go 7500 miles every time?
I have broken the 40 mpg mark twice with 41.5 and 42 mpg and those were both almost 100% highway miles at about 70-75 mph. One thing you have to watch for since you have the 5MT (as I do) is the higher rpms at freeway speeds. Activation of the VTEC system occurs around 75 mph (approximately 3500 rpm) and running the engine with the VTEC activated will use more fuel.
Approximately how much of this was highway driving, and what transmissions do the cars have?
Yes this does mean I'm very slow off the light, much to the chagrin of the cars behind me.
In all due respect, I would have to see that! How you refilled and the type of driving !
I just find that very hard to believe, unless you were on perfectly flat or downhill, with a tail wind and a steady 55 mph. No traffic or stops, and an incomplete fill up might do it on TWO cars you just got!
That would probably make you the all time mileage KING on this forum.
Took it direct to gas station & it took 1.3 gallons to actually fill the tank. Only have 150 miles so far.
Love the car. Plenty of power etc. I have driven small cars to commute to work since 1979 or 1980-Ford Fiesta & Ford Festiva, & 4 cyl mustang. I think some peoples poor milage is they are driving at TOO LOW RPM's! Noted some posted they keep it prox 1700 RPM. You are not in the power curve. It looks like this car need to be in the 2200 to 2500 RPM to get max milage, and at 2500 RPM, you are almost 65MPH. I put a lot of miles on a car.- Will post actual MPG etc as I get more miles.-yes- I did inflate tires to 40#. Also went over dealer prep list, and the ILP is actually on their car prep list!
hmmmm...for example, if you're on a flat surface driving at 40mph in 5th gear at 1800rpm or 4th gear at 2300rpm, which would give you the better mpg? I'd say 5th gear at 1800rpm would give better mpg, but 4th at 2300rpm more power/torque.