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"To smoothly deliver all this newfound power, we developed the Camry's new, available 6-speed automatic transmission.2 It's so well-conceived that it actually uses 30% fewer parts than the previous 5-speed automatic transmission. And fewer parts mean less weight and quicker response. Not to mention, greater fuel efficiency. Yes, for once, less really is more."
Footnote 2 states: "V6 models only."
Harnessing this engine's output is an all-new six-speed automatic transmission that uses 21 percent fewer parts than the conventional five-speed automatic transmission it replaces. This new transmission, which can be shifted sequentially, relies upon a newly developed gear train that uses a Ravigneaux-type compound planetary gear for reduced size, weight and friction.
This new transmission also uses a quick-response, low-friction clutch pack for enhanced fuel economy; an ultra-flat, low-inertia torque converter for high transmission efficiency; a set of high-response, low-slip clutch packs and new electronic and hydraulic control systems that incorporate an intelligent shift control that learns driver's driving style and selects gears based on that style.
As a result of this development, transmission kickdown response was cut to 0.5 seconds, more than twice as fast as the response of the transmission this new one replaces.
Is it a comparo? How'd the Camry do?
Also, njerald points out how Toyota relased that information as part of the press release... in January.
~alpha
I was reading over the many posts in this discussion. Most of them, it seems, deal with poor construction of the transmissions in the V6 cars, so Toyota will replace the faulty part, or the car altogether with a new one that is better. however for the 4-cyl 5A Camry LE, it seems the hesitation problems are a "normal part of the car's performance". Which means get used to the bad hesitations and slow downs, or buy another car from another manufacturer. Am I getting this right? Or is there another solution to my transmission hesitation problem?
Thanks for any help,
Roman :confuse:
What do you think GM, Ford, DCX, or VW would have done under the same circumstances? (I say this as having been burned by 2 of these 4.)"
It really does not matter what another manufacturer would do in this circumstance. We're only talking about Toyota here. Just because certain manufacturers do a poor job of taking care of their customers, does that mean that all manufacturers should follow suit and treat their customers poorly? No.
Toyota set a precedent by offering customers with problems a certain deal. I have that problem. Why can't I get the same deal? It's that simple.
It is so easy for Toyota to make this right, and they choose not to. Therefore, they do not earn any more of my business.
It's customer service 101. Treat all customers fairly and with respect. Toyota did neither to me.
We all know how warranties work. Factory warranties only go so far, and usually favor the manufacturer in most cases. That is why we have Lemon Laws in most states.
My Camry is at the dealer for the 4th time for this problem. If they do not fix it on this service visit then it qualifies as a Lemon and they can buy it back and give me a complete refund.
What is the problem with these cars? Is it the drive-by-wire software interface or a mechanical problem?
I bought three Hondas with V6 tranny problems and I am not going down the road again.
"There have been more affected units than that original estimated number but still very low incidents given the production to date of this vehicle."
Thanks for the reply -- that sounds reasonable. Since 160 isn't the number anymore, any chance Toyota can be more specific? Would "low incidents" mean twice that, to 320?
I'm a former Camry XLE V6 owner (2002 model) shopping for another V6 sedan to replace my 4 cyl. Accord. Right now the '07 Camry LE V6 is probably my first choice. My test drives have been very impressive.
If the snap ring issue could be given a more specific number, and if it's now a thing of the past, that would be reassuring, at least for this issue. The RPM spike issue, of course, is another matter. It's hard to know what to make of the chances of encountering that.
Good luck with your lemon law procedure.
Now my question is, who's gonna get your future business? (Honda's had transmission issues too.)
I've been a Toyota apologist throughout this entire episode, and continue to maintain my faith in Toyota's integrity because I sincerely believe Toyota is making every effort to put this problem behind them. (To expand briefly, I am neither a satisfied nor dissatisfied 2007 Camry owner, but a reasonably satisfied 2003 Hyundai Sonata owner. I have no axe to grind either way over Toyota's acknowledged 6-sp transmission issue.) But, on the face of it, I cannot understand Toyota's professed inability to track transmissions to specific cars. It's been an established procedure for over forty years* to computer match virtually everything to a specific car on its build date - paint color, upholstery trim, engine, transmission, axle, etc. Given that all cars are subject to NHTSA recall in the event of a safety issue, it's inconceivable to this pilgrim that Toyota can't match early "vexing" problems to specific vehicles. I haven't changed my opinion of Toyota's quest for quality, but I can't help but believe Amercian consumers aren't getting the straight story. As always, I appreciate your continued input on this forum. To my knowledge, no other automaker is quasi-officially represented on any internet forum, and you continue to field questions in spite of inappropriate personal barbs. (About the only thing that hasn't been suggested concerning you is whether you have horns, a notched tail, and cloven hooves...;))
*My dad bought the new Dodge "Dart" in 1960. At the time Chrysler was ballyhooing in its advertising how each car was computer scripted for every part that would go into it during assembly from the dealership-submitted order forms.
Would someone look up in their owner's manual whether Toyota is specifying a transmission fluid other than Toyota T-IV in these new 6-sp trannies? The thought occured to me that a factory flub-up may've resulted in the older T-IV fluid being installed in some trannies if Toyota's gone to a different ATF formulation. In the case of spiking RPMs, that might explain Toyota's blanket trannie replacement policy.
The manual states "Toyota Genuine ATF Type WS".
To quote:
"Using automatic transmission fluid other than (above) may cause deterioration in shift quality, locking up of your transmission accompanied by vibration, and ultimately damage the automatic transmission of your vehicle"
If defects become apparent "in the field" which is inevitable, these should be addressed efficiently and courteously and herein lies the difference between manufacturers.
A lemon-law attorney told me that he hardly ever gets a case regarding a Honda . He said Honda is very responsive to customer concerns and wants to discover the problems, get the customer happy and get the info back to engineering ASAP, while other manufacturers are not responsive and just push back.
In my experience, getting Toyota to acknowledge a problem and do something about it almost calls for an act of Congress - or a class action lawsuit.
If you get a good Toyota and don't need much beyond an oil change you have a great ownership experience. If you get a bad one then you are on your own. I've had both experiences with Toyota. Had I received help when I desperately needed it instead of being stonewalled, I would have looked beyond the problems and would still be a Toyota customer. I am now a Toyota and Lexus free zone.
Sad, very sad.
This is exactly what happens with my new 4-cyl 07 Camry. I get worried sometimes too when trying to accelerate ahead of oncoming traffic after a turn or slow-down, because of the hesitation. I was told by the salesman at the dealership where I purchased the car that the service dept should be able to tweak some setting on the car's computer to fix the problem, although from what you were told, I guess that's not correct. Thanks for writing your post and corroborating my experience with the 4-cyl 07 Camry.
Roman
To quote:
'Using automatic transmission fluid other than (above) may cause deterioration in shift quality, locking up of your transmission accompanied by vibration, and ultimately damage the automatic transmission of your vehicle'"
Thanks, blindmantoo. I believe if I were involved with a Camry transmission replacement, I'd be asking what specific type of Toyota transmission fluid was used to fill my replacement box. If the tech or the service manager indicated "Type IV", there'd definitely be grounds for additional discussion.
All electronic throttles do not share your issue (I have one in my car from the other team - Honda Accord EX that is flawless in the throttle dept.)...I wish you the best of luck in getting a fix promptly. For now, make sure you wear a seatbelt!
I understand your frustration. I have been reading these posts since my transmission began slipping at around 2000 miles. (yep, ran perfect until then) Anyway, I encountered the same run-around, from the car is fine, to no it's not - let's reboot the computer, to finally - we realize there's a defect, but we don't have any way to fix it.
Well, once I received the final response, it was suggested by Toyota that I go through arbitration, which I refused, because we aren't "arbitrating" anything. We all agree that they do not know how to fix the car. I proceeded to inform Toyota (this past Monday), that I had sought legal cousel, and was beginning the process under the Texas Lemon Law.
Today, I went back to the dealership to obtain signatures on statements of the accounts over the past month, and was told the following:
Toyota called them today and informed them that they have figured out another test for the car. The service dept. is to drive the car with a handheld computer, that will monitor the pressure involved with the transmission shifting. If the reading is a certain number (which according to the dealership, Toyota would not tell them what it was) my transmission would be replaced.
Anyway, I'm bringing my car in tomorrow morning, and we'll see what happens. According to my attorney, since this is the 3rd visit, this is their last chance to get it right.
Hang in there, Corton....if anything comes of this, I'll let all of you know. :mad:
This is your personal opinion but it is not based in fact. The fact is that the reported instances here are a very very small part of the total production. If they are in fact problems.
The internet is a wonderful tool it can be used in so many ways.
80%+ of all Camry's are built in KY. A small number of fully built Camry's, w/ NA parts, come from Japan.
Has Toyota acknowledged the transmission problem? Sort of. They said that only about 160 cars were affected and that the problem has been corrected. The facts are that vehicles are still coming in to service departments with these problems that were built long after Toyota said the problem had been found and corrected.
Statements like this are baseless unless you have specific data on the 100,000+ '07's delivered already. Your opinion is noted though.
I do understand that you may have an annoying issue with yours and for that I am sorry but blanket generalizations are always wrong.
With the recent recalls, ongoing issues with other Toyota cars such as the Avalon, the engine sludge problem from a few years ago, and now problems with the new 6 speed auto transmission in the Camry, I think more and more people are starting to have second thoughts about Toyota's supposed "good quality and reputation".
This surprises me in that you seem to have a very good handle on all the major issues involving Toyota products back into the 90's which you are using to 'threaten'(?), 'scare'(?) new buyers from the '07 Camry but despite all this knowledge you yourself went ahead ( hmmmmmm? ) and bought one. Curious.
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It's shameful to read about people suffering after having paid a premium for 'perfection'.
Huh, what?
I said that the origin of manufacture stickers I'd seen indicated the same percentage of North American parts no matter the country of assembly. Is that wrong?
I also wondered about the economics of shipping parts from NA to Japan and shipped back again, and speculated that that would end when the Indiana assembly opened.
My experience was totally different:
My former '97 Camry LE 4-cylinder was purchased new, and I did all of the oil and filter changes myself, except one. Until I had the problem described below, all oil changes were done every 5000 miles, which averaged out to 3+ times per year.
At 57K miles (summer of 2000), the car developed blue smoke on cold startup. The problem was diagnosed as worn valve stem seals, which were replaced by the local Toyota dealer (not the dealer I had purchased the car from). At the same time, the head gasket was replaced, because coolant "seepage" onto the outside of the engine block was discovered. All work was done under the terms of the 5 year/60K powertrain warranty. The oil and filter was changed at the same time.
I had receipts of most (not all) oil and filter purchases and a detailed handwritten maintenance log, so I got no flak -- zero -- from the dealer about negligence.
Before the work started, the dealer said he'd check for sludge without me broaching the subject. (This was before Toyota publicly anknowledged the sludge problem and extended the engine warranty to 8 years with no mileage limit in case of sludge). My engine was determined to be "fairly clean."
Was I happy that the car developed a major problem? No, but I was totally satisfied with the dealer's handling of the problem.
And I never had a sludge problem, with the car being sold at 111K miles only because I wanted to get a newer Camry with side curtain airbags, NOT because the car had become unreliable.
Unfortunately it has developed a problem with what seems like the transmission going into neutral on medium acceleration in the middle gears, revs way high for a second or so, then it seems like it shifts and of course it lurches to the extent that the front tires chirp. It did this twice or 3 times today to varying degrees and the check engine light has come on. I am going to give Toyota Motor Sales a call tomorrow and have it serviced.
This is like a recurring nightmare. I thought the problem was taken care of, and now this comes up in the new transmission. Not quite the same as the snap ring problem but a transmission problem none-the-less. :sick:
This is like a recurring nightmare. I thought the problem was taken care of, and now this comes up in the new transmission. Not quite the same as the snap ring problem but a transmission problem none-the-less. "
I'm Sorry to hear that your replacement transmission also has problems. You've been stricken by the problem that the transmission in my Camry is being replaced for, what I call the RPM spike problem.
You are the third one that I'm aware of that has had an original transmission replaced and the replacement is exhibiting the RPM spike problem.
Unfortunately, for many of us, it is a recurring nightmare.
I posted a couple of videos of my Camry exhibiting this RPM spiking. Take a look at the videos and tell us if your car is doing the same type of thing.
The videos are at www.putfile.com/corton and they are in windows media format. Just click on the windows media logo to play them.
The internet is a wonderful tool it can be used in so many ways."
Do you think that everyone who has a problem takes the time to search out this forum and post here. Not hardly.
The truth is that we don't know what the "reported instances" were/are or what the percentages are because Toyota does not release that information.
I have always followed your postings, and have been inspired to take a positive approach about the snap problem with the way you were treated by Toyota. I was given the impression (by TMUSA) that the problem is occurring only on early production units.
I t looks like the 6-speed transmission is a problem across the board (whether it is a snap or spike), now with even the replacements that came from Japan. We just do not know how many of those who do not even know the forums (much much more than us I guess) are experiencing these problems.
I will not be surprised if a recall will be issued in the very near future (for those who already bought the car, hope soon). I have the feeling that Toyota does not have clue as to what is causing the snap as well as the spike problem.
I wonder what TMUSA will say regarding what happened to you I guess you have opt for the 100k warranty? Can you still change your mind and just get a new car? (Although replacing it with a new car is not a guaranty that the same problem will not occur).
Right now, it really needs a lot from Toyota to heal what is being felt by those having these tranny problems.
This is a big problem for Toyota.
Is your transmission a new transmission or a remanufactured one?
I asked the question because they put a remanufactured transmission in my '04 Accord with 4,000 miles on the car. I discovered at the time that this is routine procedure for Honda and, I think, many other makes as well.
Just a note of reassurance -- I know it's major surgery and some of you are justifiably nervous about a transmission replacement, but mine is at 23,000 miles now and performs flawlessly. It created no other issues with the car, at least none I'm aware of. The key for me was having the service manager take personal oversight of the "operation."
Just a note of reassurance -- I know it's major surgery and some of you are justifiably nervous about a transmission replacement, but mine is at 23,000 miles now and performs flawlessly
You have 23k miles on a new Camry already? Not that I don't believe you, but that's an average of 6-8k / month (assuming you bought in March). Wow - how do you rack up that kind of mileage...
Read the post, not the title.
I imagine when their service / returns with failed transmissions gets to the point where they are spooled up to provide remanufactured units, that that's when a customer would get a remanufactured vs. a new unit.
Didn't this vehicle get a newly designed transmission? If so, that means new internals and perhaps externals.
I wouldn't worry too much about a remanufactured unit once the pipe turns them out. But, if the replacements are failing and if they are new, then maybe it's a bit premature to tell - maybe the design is being tweaked.
Until the time they appear to have the situation well in hand, I suppose an owner should reasonably expect the manufacturer to minimally extend the warranty (in a major way) on the replacement transmission, and perhaps even on the entire vehicle, but also make payments on the vehicle for the month where it is in the shop more than say a few days. Someone should not have to pay for a vehicle they are not in possession of for any appreciable period of time.
Also, if the hesitation or flairing issue is significant, the manufacturer should place in writing that it is safe to drive if they send you on your way indicating "it's operating as designed".
When there are production issues it has been my experience, and observation here, that Toyota has jumped right on the problem and solved it right away. The issue of the rpm spiking seems much less clear than the snap ring issue so I am awaiting more findings before forming a judgement.
I pulled out on the street, accelerated lightly up to approximately 40 mph, and when the transmission attempted to shift from 3rd into 4th gear, it hung up again and the engine RPM's spiked up about 1000 RPM's until the transmission finally went into 4th gear.
So replacing the transmission in my car did absolutely no good. The problem still exists.
So it appears that Toyota does not really know what causes this problem.
I pulled out on the street, accelerated lightly up to approximately 40 mph, and when the transmission shifted into 4th gear, I got a 1000 RPM spike.
So replacing the transmission in my car did absolutely no good. The problem still exists.
So it appears that Toyota does not really know what causes this problem after all."
Being the owner of a new V6SE I can only hope that Toyota has learned from your unfortunate experience w/ your new car. Possibly they can now rule out the tranny as the cause of the spike - good from the standpoint that it may eliminate a major component. Now we're all hoping that you & the others experiencing the "spike" will get get satisfactory resolution from Toyota. Personally, I'm a bit peeved that TMSUSA is not addressing this issue more openly.
I really feel for you. I'm going through a similar, but nowhere near as serious experience w/ my '05 Odyssey.
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corton,
Sorry to hear this bad news. But as I suspected, and as you stated (and I've stated earlier,) they are "shooting in the dark". A NEW transmission does not equal a GOOD transmission if they don't know what's going on.
I will be doing an oral presentation as part of an upcoming mediation through the Nat'l Center for Dispute Settlement. I highly suspect that they are going to want to change my transmission also. I'm going to fight that. You are the second or third person that has had their transmission replaced with yet another defective one.
I'm asking for a full refund justified by many of these postings at Edmunds and Toyotanation that indicate that Toyota doesn't understand this problem.
The clock is ticking on executing my Lemon Law rights.
As a starter, do you all have stability/traction control?
Yes, it's my Accord that has the 23,000 miles on a remanufactured transmission. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my post.
I have 0 miles on my possible new purchase, a V6 LE Camry. I'm shopping 6 cylinder sedans because I like that power underfoot, and the Camry's 268 are pretty sweet. My 4 cyl. Accord is about as good as it gets with a four-banger, but it's just not the same kind of power. I kind of got talked into giving a 4 cyl. a try, and 2.5 years later I'm ready for a change. Still a very good car, though.
(I hit the wrong message to respond to -- this is going to njerald's message, but I meant it for blindmantoo. Long day.)
As a starter, do you all have stability/traction control
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blindmantoo?
Gee...good questions...I have VSC with mine but these are questions that TOYOTA should be asking itself. After all, they designed it. There's also the ECT unit and its software (including the "Intelligent" learning software, transaxle compensation code, engine computer, .....
My question is: Are they even looking at this problem or do they think we're a bunch of "whiners"?
i found the 'tn' site through google and found the posts seemed to cross posted(pasted?) between here and there.
i really hope noone has problems with their camrys, but they do happen.
over the years, i have been an early adopter of many vehicles, and have experienced the 'released a bit too early' syndrome many times.
This is why we should not have adaptive transmissions.
It is better to build a transmission that works in its very own predictable manner. The human brain is very good at adapting(integrating) the transmissions' behaviour into his/her own driving habits.
to solve a given equation, you need to keep(assume) one of the two variables a constant in order to arrive at an answer. How can you arrive at an answer with both(all) the variables changing simultaneously in anticpation of the other?
This adaptive transmission will work the day humans become DUMB like dummies and start behaving in a predictable manner.