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Comments
On the 6-speed transmission (V6 model only), there are two definite issues: the faulty snap ring problem, which Toyota has acknowledged, and the rpm "flare" or spiking issue on the 3-4 upshift. On the latter, tmsusa has said there are several complaints, but Toyota has no specific fix at this point.
Despite a few complaints here about the 5-speed auto on the 4-cylinder model, I don't believe there is a widespread problem [as I duck for incoming flames].
FWIW, I have two Camrys - an '04 4-cyl 4A and an '05 4-cyl. 5A (the latter has the same drivetrain as current 4-cyl. Camrys). They have a combined total of 50K miles - ZERO problems.
For example, you said, Once when driving up a hill, I had the acceleration pedal to the floor and I don't think I left first gear. If the hill is steep enough, the transmission won't leave first gear if the gas pedal is kept to the floor (unless of course you approach the engine redline). This is true for any automatic transmission.
You also said, Also sometimes I have noticed the car actually slowing down unnaturally while coasting, I think because the transmission was shifting to a lower gear
It's not clear what you mean by "unnatural," but different cars do have different coasting characteristics. Also, the transmission will at some point have to shift to a lower gear, whether you come to a full stop or press the accelerator to speed up again.
Regarding your other points, if you smoothly accelerate from a stop, the transmission should upshift without any jerkiness. On the other hand if you ease off the gas, then floor it, you will get some "jerkiness" as the transmission will have to downshift two or more gears.
Another example: if you're cruising in 5th on a two-lane road at say 55 mph, and then floor it to pass a slower car in front of you, the transmission will downshift to 3rd, and you will most definitely feel it. There will also typically be a brief pause before the 5-3 downshift occurs, which can seem like forever if an oncoming semi is closing in on you!
It wouldn't be realistic (nor desirable) for most drivers to see what transmission gear they are really in at a particular moment. They should just see which top gear they have selected.
When I see the tranny is in "D," I know that it is in fully auto mode and will shift through all 5 gears.
If I manually switch off the overdrive, then I see "o/d off" and I know I only have 4 gears at my disposal.
With the sequential tranny, if I select "3," then I know the tranny will be in one of the 3 lowest gears.
Is this still an issue, and should I forget about the Camry? Camry does cost $5000 more which is a negative. I appreciate feedback as I am looking to buy this week.
Your experience with Toyota is very in line with what I have exprience with my 2005 Camry. All attempt to rid of the jerky transmission has been told as car perform as specs that in the face when the lead tech of the dealer took a test drive and exprienced it himself. Yet the regional rep did not want test drive my car. Can wait till I am able to rid the car. It is frustrating every time I get behind the wheel.
Just don't buy a first year car. I understand you are very annoyed because of the poor customer service, problems, and the Toyota representitives repeadily saying "I'm sorry for your experience."
but
Toyota will eventually fix your car's problems when they figure out how to fix it. Yes I agree that it is rediculous for the car to have so many problems, but the only thing you can do now is keep contacting headquarters and wait. :confuse:
However, a term which keeps popping up in car magazine reviews is "untoyotalike". As Toyota continues their quest to be the largest automobile producer in the world quality is dropping in their cars. Not tremendously but the quality is dropping. When companies become to large communication begins to detoriate, just ask GM. Toyota will eventually fix the Camry but remember sloppiness is slipping into Toyota vehicles. If you like the car do purchase the vehicle, regardless of make, but purchasing the extended warranty might be a good idea.
In case your wondering our family hauler is a 2005 Honda Accord 4dr. EX-L-Nav with the 2.4L and 5A. and it has been flawless.
So to me, there should be no difference in performance.
Is this still an issue, and should I forget about the Camry? Camry does cost $5000 more which is a negative. I appreciate feedback as I am looking to buy this week.
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Buy a V6 2007 Camry at your own risk. I have been a staunch supporter of Toyota over the years but I would never buy another Toyota after this unless this problem is immediately addressed. I've had 5 of them plus two Hondas and was very satisfied over those years.
You have been forewarned by postings in this forum. The transmissions in the V6's have a significant probability of having problems. Toyota needs to fix it and correct the problem for those of us who have it.
I think the quality charts have finally crossed between American cars and Japanese cars. It appears that even the Japanese built Toyotas are using American made parts(transmissions and/or the control units) and therefore suffer the same problems. (see corton postings). I also think Honda, Acura and Lexus are headed down the same path (American parts and assembly). So it looks like we are stuck with no more reliable cars anymore.
but
Toyota will eventually fix your car's problems when they figure out how to fix it.
I don't actually own a Toyota but I was considering buying a used one. I called Toyota's customer service number to verify the warranty and had a specific question about sludge issues.
The rep was rude and could not answer 90% of my simple questions. After that I told myself that dealing with Toyota on issues of any matter was going to be like pulling teeth.
There is nothing worse than buying a new car and having the company blow you off. If its a new production car then the company should be willing to bend over backwards to help you out, especially after you spend thousands of dollars to buy something new and untested.
Very well put, and I agree with you 100%.
Your conclusion might be valid if the engine control and powertrain control (transmission and throttle-by-wire) software was shared among the '05/'06 and '07 models (it is a virtual certainty it is not)-- and even then only if the chassis and dynamic response of all the vehicles were the same (and of course that isn't true either-- the vehicles don't weigh the same).
The throttle and shift control in many modern cars (not just Camrys) are dynamically adjusted (by the engine and powertrain computers) based on instantaneous torque requirements, acceleration vs. pedal position, and a host of other inputs derived from sensors specific to the mechanical layout of a specific chassis and engine combination. Even if the engine and mechanical transmission components were identical, the dynamically calculated control inputs to the engine and transmission would be significantly different between the previous and current generation Camrys.
It's easy to envision a scenario where a difference in dynamic response (hesitation or other perceived driveability differences) could arise from software in the powertrain, throttle-by-wire, or engine controls-- even if the engine and transmission are largely carryover components.
is that true?
i was under the impression parts used in Toyotas might be comming from a number of non-Japan countries including the US but also Korea, Taiwan, China.
with that explaination, then maybe even a scenario where existing hesitation is exacerbated by an adaptive transmission / ecu control scheme - instead of adapting to driver style preferences. :confuse:
Roman
One wonders if the volume and uniformity gains from single-source manufacturing offset the transportation costs involved. I'm inclined to think that assembling Camrys in Japan will continue only until the Indiana plant opens.
Based on my 3 months ownership of new 07 Camry XLE V6 (this is my first Toyota), my car has 5500 miles, no transmission problem at all, and car is very comfortable, quiet, responsive, good gas mileage (22 city/31 hwy) not mention to its 3.5 V6 268hp engine. Definitely it is the best car in this class right now. I love this car and I will definitely recommend any of my friends who are seeking to buy a mid-size car. I am also very happy with the service department of my dealership.
Sonata? I would not even consider it based on their past reputation. Never, ever.
Of course, it could be that if one doesnt have problems one wouldnt read this forum.
Thanks,
Ws
2. Toyota has acknowledged the transmission problem and they are trying to fix it,
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wtliao321,
I'm happy for you that you are having no problems with your Camry. It's no wonder you are happy with your service department.
What evidence do you have for item 1 that you mentioned in your letter? Only Toyota can know that and they won't tell us. While Toyota said that the snap ring problem was limited to a small number of vehicles early on, these forums have revealed that there are still such problems occurring. Also we have no way of knowing the extent of the RPM spiking problem because only a very small percentage of 07 Camry V6 owners are probably even aware of these forums.
And on item 2 - I can tell you that neither my Toyota Customer Experience line representative nor my dealer will tell me if Toyota is either aware of this (RPM spiking) problem or working to fix it. Toyota has made several different attempts to fix this problem by 1) changing valve bodies, 2) Resetting the ECT unit memory, 3) Resetting the transaxle compensation code. 4) changing a transmission solenoid. None of these have worked which tells me that they are taking guesses (maybe educated ones, but guesses nonetheless) instead of doing effective engineering analysis of the root cause of the problem. There is also an instance where someone with the snap ring problem got a new transmission and NOW has the RPM spiking problem.
Toyota has lost its reputation for quality in my eyes. a) There is too much variability in their production processes or b)they have a non-robust design on their 6AT transmission.
I've owned 5 Toyotas over the past ten years and have been extremely satisfied with their quality, which is why I chose this car. Something has changed - DRAMATICALLY - at Toyota recently.
Still, the '07 Camry is only about 100 lbs heavier comparing similar 4-cylinder models, uses the same basic suspension setup front and rear, and has a very similar platform. (I've looked at the undersides of both my '05 and a new '07.) The wheelbase is only 2 inches longer on the new one.
Seems to me the major changes were to the styling inside and out (I'm speaking here of the 4-cylinder models, as of course the V6 engine and 6-speed tranny are new to the Camry).
I do not agree with some of what you have posted here. The actual percentages of affected vehicles will probably never be known, as it is to Toyota's benefit to keep that type of information secret. My research on this subject has shown a much higher percentage of affected vehicles than Toyota will ever admit. I've even come across posts on another forum from one owner who had his transmission replaced and had the replacement transmission fail also.
Has Toyota acknowledged the transmission problem? Sort of. They said that only about 160 cars were affected and that the problem has been corrected. The facts are that vehicles are still coming in to service departments with these problems that were built long after Toyota said the problem had been found and corrected.
As far as the 6 speed being so much better than the 5 speed in terms of technology, I'm puzzled as to how you can make this assessment.
With the recent recalls, ongoing issues with other Toyota cars such as the Avalon, the engine sludge problem from a few years ago, and now problems with the new 6 speed auto transmission in the Camry, I think more and more people are starting to have second thoughts about Toyota's supposed "good quality and reputation".
This is not the right place to get into that, though. This discussion is for owners who are having issues with their 07 Camrys - not for debating other vehicles.
Thanks.
No one wants to go to dealer every week to ask them fix the same problem over and over again. My experience on 05 Honda Accord EX-V6 was a disaster. I bought it based on good user review and all the good things about Honda Accord. Its transmission was really harsh - a jerky/sluggish gear shift from 1st gear to 2nd gear, and a vibration during 50mph. Sometimes the car was very smooth and fun to drive, but most of time it was very rough. This is not even a first year production of 6th generation Accord. I went to dealer 5 times and test drove with service managers and techs, and all I got is "it is normal and it is the way how the car works. We will not fix it because we see no problem". I was so frustrated and didn't know what to do. At that time I don't even know to seek help on the Internet forum. As a result, I end up with buying 07 Camry to replace Accord and lost a couple thousand dollars. Ever since that, my days with 07 Camry is so sweet therefore I want to share with any potential buyers to understand not all 07 Camry but small number of early production cars (1st year production) have transmission problems.
I totally understand your frustration but the way the Toyota treats owners is much much better than what I have experienced. At least they are trying to fix the problem for you. Give them some time. It is Toyota's fault they didn't fully tested it before push it into production. However, don't give up and fight it for yourself until you are satisfied. Good luck.
Ok, I don't want to start to debate here.
Based on my observation here and the other forum, about 15-20 users have experienced the transmission or hesitation problem. After they visit the dealer, about 6-8 users are still complaining about their transmissions are still not acting like the way it is supposed to be. I assume some of them are the same people based on their UserID.
I am truly sorry to hear what happened to your car, give Toyota some time, let them fix it for you. Good luck.
In March 06 I invested $31,000 in a 2007 Camry V6 XLE (LOADED) that is producing nothing but grief in return I thought “this could never happen to me” Well it did!!
ALL I WANT IS MY CAR TO RUN AS ADVERTISED...NOTHING MORE...NOTHING LESS (FIX IT AND I WILL BE ON MY WAY) I expected Toyota to take care of this issue...not turn a blind eye and send me to Italy with these problems. They knew my situation before I made the purchase, I was told “this is the car you need while you are over there; the reliability of these cars is proven Time and Time again”.
One week after purchase the problems started and the nightmare continues.
I will not receive the same level of support in Italy. They don’t sell Camry’s in Europe (I know his because Toyota of Europe confirmed this last week). How can I have an Italian Toyota tech work on this car when he is not trained to work on it ? Heck the Italian dealership I called does not even speak English. I bought this car expecting to take it to the dealership for major service intervals (30K and 60 K ect)
I feel the spiking and momentary slippage in my car everyday. I live on a military installation where the speed limit is 30 mph (and the cops enforce the speed like crazy) SO light acceleration is normal daily operating conditions for my wife and me.
My car hesitates constantly at 30mph, because the transmission cannot figure out what gear it needs to be in. It is extremely annoying.
Try accelerating wide open throttle from 40 miles per hour, my car slips really badly from 4000 RPM to 5000 RPM. The Tach is almost redlined before the car starts to pull.
I also had a time where my wife went on a 120 mile round trip and the car did not shift out of 5th gear (the shift selector was in D).
Toyota has shown me they are NOT trying to solve the problem. So far I am told this it is normal, and not a manufacturing defect, better yet they pretty much told me I was a liar in writing.
I don’t feel that I should have to take an $8000 loss trading this vehicle in...Because they cannot get their crap together!!
This affects more than me...I have to leave my wife and kids with this car (while in Italy) while I am deployed to Iraq.
I have 5,800 miles on this car...sucks to be me huh!!
Toyota you ignored me...I adopted a car with serious birth defects. A returning 5 time loyal customer was cheated!!!!
IMHO, that salesman should be fired plain and simple as that.
a distraction is hardly the word for it!
anything beyond the radio or the A/C is asking for an accident.
if you go for another test drive, ask for another salesman, or go to another dealership.
Unless one or more of the insignificant trannie changes and/or relatively minor engine upgrades (perhaps including ECM software upgrades?) turned out to be cumulative brain poppers that weren't discovered through in toto testing? No evidence, here - just speculating.
The quality is what we have come to expect from Toyota.
So maybe you could make that request and look for responses there.
Thanks for everyone's cooperation.
I bought my 07 4-cyl 5A after a marvelous experience with an 03 4-cyl 4A. Oh, how I wish I'd kept that 03.
I beleve if you analyze the problem closely you will find that the hesitation issue is more of an engine (maybe in conjunction with the transmission) issue than just a transmission issue alone. In my experience, it revolves around the ECU/TCU programming and also possibly the emissions controls.
It does not seem to be a problem on all 07 Camry 4-cyl 5A vehicles, but for those of us experiencing it, it is darn frustrating.
From my experience, if Toyota is interested in how widespread the hesitation problem is, they are keeping it a deep, dark secret! I (and others) have experienced the common response - "that is normal operation for this vehicle" - from salespeople, service technicians, service managers, district service managers, field technical service engineers, and case managers at the Toyota Customer Experience Center. Some of these people can be excused for their ignorance, but some are aware of the problem and giving us a line of crap.
How can my 07 4-cyl 5A be so drastically different from my 03 4-cyl 4A??? It just shouldn't be this different - or this bad!
Prospective 07 Camry owners - be very careful when you test drive one of these cars and look carefully for the problems noted in this forum. You have been fore-warned.
I understand your distress and I don't have a dog in this fight ... I just think we shouldn't overlook the obvious.
I hope things work out for you. Please keep us posted.
Let us know what happens before you depart as this will not be forgotten by me if they don't resolve this issue.
Soldier - stay safe, stay together, stay alert.
Regarding the hesitation issue on 07 Camry 4-cyl 5A vehicles:
TMSUSA has never acknowledged this problem. All he/she has done is try to mollify those of us who have been given the run-around by Toyota.
Toyota has never acknowledged this problem, and they persist in defining the issue with the words "normal operation for this vehicle".
I am an engineer and I work in research. I would appreciate some professional courtesy, some openness and honesty about this issue from Toyota, but this is not what I have received. Instead I have been told that there is nothing wrong with my vehicle. They are not being forthright, and this, in the long run, will hurt the Toyota company, just as this type of behavior has hurt GM.
What does this have to do with your problem? Everyone should be treated honestly and professionaly. I also hope that you can things worked out in a satisfactory fashion.
Reading the threads here, TMS USA has to know which cars are defective but they continue to sell them knowing there's a high probability of failure. They profess to be concerned in their postings here, but obviously the sale is more important than satisfied customers. So be wary, there's still may be defective cars sitting on those lots waiting for you.
You bring up a very interesting point. The following quote from the 2007 Camry sales brochure:
"In certain areas, 4-cylinder automatic models are equipped as Partial Zero Emission Vehicles (PZEV)."
Aside from obvious Orwellian "doublespeak" (what is partial zero - a new mathematical concept taught at the Little Big Horn river reservation?), maybe these weird performance issues are normal for vehicles so equipped. To my knowledge, the lucky owners of PZEV vehicles are residents of California and several northeast quadrant states. Y'all will be pleased to note that, if true, Toyota is pledged to maintain your engine-transmissions' unique performance and driveability attributes for 15 yrs. or 150,000 miles - whichever comes first.