Fuel Economy and Oil Dependency

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    Yeah, if one ignores the road conditions and the justifiablity of the posted limits. Some 30 and 60 limits are much more defendable than others.

    Reality.... keep on pointing that out :sick:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I call cow manure. Toyota had a EV Rav4...

    The RAV4 EV had a battery pack weighing 1000 pounds. Imagine that, 1/2 a ton. Now imagine it in the little ol' Prius, and imagine how small the trunk would be once you wedged that sucker in...

    As for Prius today, its battery pack weighs less than 1/4 that much, IIRC.

    Plus both Toyota (and GM) and the aftermarketeers are going for a much larger operating range on batteries alone than either the RAV EV or the EV-1 ever had. Batteries haven't advanced as much since 2000 as the design specs for these new plug-ins have. People have much higher expectations of EVs now than they did in 1998 - they want range, speed, and ease of use somewhat comparable to gas cars, not to mention long warranties on the battery packs, etc.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    Yeah. 55 was in 1974 - either Nixon or Ford and I think it's NIxon.

    Yes, the national 55 mph speed limit was passed by Congress in March 1974. Nixon did not resign until later in August of that year.
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    These are very fuel-efficient small cars, and not ultra-slow like some of the micro-engined cars of Europe are by our standards.

    > I will check the iQ with great interest. it is pretty much an anti-Smart in essence, and it is offering 3+ seating space.
    The toyota Agyo and its robotized gearbox basically offer the same 0-62mph acceleration than a Prius. I believe they would be more economical on the highway while a bit thirstier in town. it is selling for about 17000 USD in Europe because of high Euro (or low USD). Of course, the diesel version of the Prius is even more fuel efficient, but it is more expensive, offers fewer HP (54) and offers no automatic box.

    Regarding the EV, I find the Chinese electric bikes both cheap and performing pretty well. Mine is able to cruise at 19 mph (30 km/h) . and offers about 25 miles of range. There are some more powerful scooters which can go up to 25+ mph.

    Because they use standard lead acid batteries (4X12-10A) , replacing the battery packs cost locally 75 USD.

    I have been doing a few city stuff with it and find it very credible for trips of less than 5 miles. I am sure the range could be improved if it came with regenerative braking.
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    Many vehicules are getting seriously overweight.

    I like the step taken by Audi to make cars with an Aluminium body
    image

    Thanks to its lightweight body, the A2 was about 200 pounds lighter than a fit for the same footprint. a ultra-high efficiency model was even offered with a 1 L TDI and could reach an amazing 78 mpg.

    The A2 was not a success because it was too expensive. The added cost of its Aluminium body added a few thousands Euros on top of is price.

    I really support the concept of Aluminium use in a car. The 2WD A8 is a good example of clever engineering, with a car lighter than the A6 with same powertrains.
    The 6 Cyl 2.8 is doing pretty well in terms of performance and FE (28 MPG overall on the EU cycle). I believe it is not imported in the US. it is a shame.
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >Tailgating is aggressive behavour against someone who is going slower than the person doing the tailgating.

    I saw a lot of tailgating even in the right lane in the US. It seems a lot of uneducated drivers naturally tailgate as they just don't realize how dangerous it is. If they wanted to go faster, why don't they pass ?

    I see a lot of tailgating in rush hour. Tailgating does not improve the average speed. because there is no way to speed up and little way to remove the car in front.

    I also see a lot of tailgating against LLC (left lane camper) This is the reason I would associate this with poor lane discipline. For this case you are right, but we could also claim that the LLC is deliberating blocking the way as he/she wants to drive slower and make sure other people do the same.

    There is a gap between driving faster and wanting to drive faster. This gap is named "the other road users" Whereas enforcement for posted SL is pretty strong, enforcement for road users to respect other road users is close to inexistant.

    I reword my sentence. If there is an association between speeding and tailgating, it is because the govt wants it.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    are going to qualify for a $1300 tax credit, similar to the incentives available for some hybrids, according to Inside Line.

    That will certainly help sales... :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    WHAT??? 55 was imposed in the early 70's - I believe Nixon was President.

    NOT Reagan.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    OK I think that most people here agree that 55 is not realistic in this day and age, but what about 65 as a national speed limit?

    For me I definitely believe that safety would be greatly improved by people driving between 65 to 75 with semi's and commercial trucks over 22,000 gvw limited to 68 mpg electronically.

    Imagine that your drivers license is similar to an easy pass so that when you get into the car, the car recognizes who is driving, and how fast that person is allowed to drive.

    Or Imagine that all cars have a GPS system and a database of what the speed limit is on various roads and electronically limit your speed to within 8 mph of the speed limit?

    Mark
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Or Imagine that all cars have a GPS system and a database of what the speed limit is on various roads and electronically limit your speed to within 8 mph of the speed limit?

    So, whether limit is 55, 65 or whatever, the technology would accomodate knowing the vehicle type and road being travelled on.

    Extend that a little, with an item from Oregon I think, to bill drivers for the miles that they actually drive. Not pro or con on this, just saying technology is probably doable.

    Heard on radio today that many of nation's bridges in need of repair. Except for toll bridges that should be covering their maintenance costs, billing drivers for incurred miles travelled could provide a lot of extra revenue to fix bridges and roads. Understand that we already pay fed and state tax when we buy gasoline. But, these revenues are inadequate and are going down because people driving less and a move to more economical vehicles. Somebody has got to pay.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    In my opinion one size does not fit all with speed limits. You cannot have 65 in Montana and justify the same in CT - a much more densely populated state. The distances people have to travel in the midwest and west over long stretches of deserted highway IMHO justify NO speed limits, or speed appropriate for conditions. Cruising along at 65 over across West Texas??? Ridiculous. For whatever reason - safety? Fuel economy? Please - if someone wants to go 100 and it is safe for conditions and they know they will get 10 instead of 20 MPG and are willing to pay the price? Go for it. What do I care?
  • golfman4golfman4 Member Posts: 18
    I read somewhere that large trucks lose approx 2% fuel economy for each mile over 55. I don't think cars are as fuel inefficient. Why not a 65 mph national limit for cars, 60 for trucks with strict enforcement for those going more than 5 mph over?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Absolutely agreed. You can't come up with an ideal speed limit that you can apply to the whole country. There are just too many variables.

    I remember driving across Texas in the days of 55. Longest day of my life!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Please - if someone wants to go 100 and it is safe for conditions and they know they will get 10 instead of 20 MPG and are willing to pay the price? Go for it. What do I care?

    Agreed. I was driving 75-80mph in Utah and Nevada this spring. No big deal as I could see way down the road, and there was no traffic to speak of. Even the 2-lane rural roads, where you could see for miles, and maybe see 1 car every 5 minutes were fine to cruise at those speeds.

    I can also cruise at 80 mph at times in CT. Rt. 84 from Hartford to the MA border, frequently moves at this speed, most of the time (outside of commuting time). I can get on Rt 91 in MA and VT most of the time and cruise safely at 80 mph.

    Where and when traffic is heavy or weather is bad, common sense is required to drive slower and maybe much slower than these speeds.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Is it true that Texas is so big you can start at one end early in the morning and it'll get dark by the time you reach the other end or is that an exaggeration?
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    I 20 is 636 miles long to I10 and then you still have to get to El Paso - probably 700 miles altogether, a good solid 10 hour drive averaging 70, including any stops for gas, etc.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    All it takes is some common sense - I have driven 20 in a 65 zone on the NYS Thruway. Why? FREEZING RAIN - in my 42 years of driving in all kinds of snow storms, rain, etc. that trip from Buffalo to Syracuse one night was the scariest freaking trip I ever took. Driving a manual rear engine car I was going around a gentle curve at about 55 - it was raining and dark so I was going more slowly - and the back end started to come around on me! I immediately down shifted - NEVER hit the brakes back then - no ABS - and was in 3rd doing 35 and stepped on the gas - and spun the rear wheels! :surprise: I slowed down even more, put the flashers on and drove the next 100 miles in that stuff - had to stop and break the ice off the wipers a few times and 18 wheelers were jacknifing all over the hills and sliding into the median or off into the fields!

    Then too I have cruised at 100 on certain interstates like in Maine without another car in sight. No - no national speed limit :) IMHO.
  • bcwattybcwatty Member Posts: 1
    Creating an artificially low speed limit causes normal people to become lawbreakers. The disrespect for the low speed limit then fosters the belief that its OK to pick and choose the laws which we are going to obey. As a former prosecutor who prosecuted thousands of traffic-related infractions, the return to such a speed limit is attacking the problem at the wrong end. If saving fuel is the goal, perhaps more fuel efficient vehicles should be allowed to travel at a higher rate of speed - this would allow rational, law-abiding folks to travel at a reasonable rate of speed. This whole discussion just drives me nuts! Left lane bandits are a MUCH bigger safety issue than reasonable speeders, imagine how righteous such idiots would be creating legions of road rage incidents - all in the name of saving fuel and making sure everyone else does, too. AHHHHHHHHHHHH . . .
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Second, there is FLAK from people who point out the absurdity of rural interstate speeds at low speeds. This clearly shows how badly the US needs mass transit.

    Mass transit like the bullet train in Japan is good for high population density places like Japan and maybe a few areas of the US, but not for the US as a whole. For instance I live in Chicago, going east something like a bullet train would work as it would be a few hours to cities of major populations. However going west the population density drops considerably, you will have to drive 1000 miles to get to a city of decent size (Denver). Japans population density is 40 times greater than Nebraskas. In cases like that its much better to fly.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    It would raise congestion and traffic levels so much and so severely that all roads would end up having traffic jams and bumper to bumper traffic.

    Nope it wouldn't, the only thing that raises congestion (outside construction and accidents) is more cars, lowering the speed limit will not add more cars to the road.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    2. Traffic deaths DECLINED with the elimination of the 55 MPH speed limit

    Yes but traffic deaths also declined when they imposed the 55 MPH limit so what gives?

    Basically traffic deaths have been in decline almost every year since the 20's so there must be another reason. A while back there was another (now closed) forum where this was being argued. I had done some research and was finding that the reduced fatality rates were more attributed to greater seat belt use, more cars having air bags and safer cars than anything to do with the speed increasing. What was becoming very apparent by this research was that it appeared by these figures that it is possible that removing the 55 MPH limit may have slowed down the rate that traffic deaths have fallen.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    OK I think that most people here agree that 55 is not realistic in this day and age, but what about 65 as a national speed limit?

    I have said before that there should be no "National" speed limit. The feds should stay out of it and let the states set their own. If one state wants 55 and another wants 80 fine, but the feds need to stay out.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I do see an increase in Scooter use where I live. Both electric and 49cc gas. I think it is because it doesn't require a special license. But 78 MPG is more like what I would expect from a car designed for fuel mileage.

    What I keep hearing is rather than coming out with a new solution the manufacturers are trying to send us the solution they developed for Asia and Europe years ago. I for one am simply not interested in a new super small car that gets the same fuel mileage as an old Civic and less then an even older Metro or Rabbit diesel.

    What was that you posted about a Diesel Prius with no automatic? Is it a stick? I have never even read about a manual Prius. Still like I said the Insight I believe was Aluminum and it was able to get in the 70 MPG range so a 40 MPG Smart seems pretty much like a step backward to me.

    Nippon I never thought you would be one to say the manufacturers should only produce what they say the people want. When the people wanted SUVs you clamored for more Sub Compacts. Now that we are faced with a chance to move into a new direction wouldn't this be the perfect time to release a EV city car even if it only had a range of 120 miles like the Rav4 had? Shouldn't the people be able to decide? People aren't paying for these plug in conversions because they don't care.

    Let me give you an example. The buying public of motorcycles were spending a lot of money on custom cruisers. It didn't take long before all of the manufacturers made their own factory custom cruisers. People decided to buy them simply because they could. They didn't need tax incentives from the government to get people to buy them either.

    What are we as a society willing to give up to get off of the gas habit? The solution of using little gas cars that get 40 to 45 mpg aren't solving the problem they are only extending it to another generation. I was around when the idea of zero emission vehicles were first mandated by CARB. I have become discouraged when CARB dropped the ball seven or eight years ago and let the manufacturers slip through a loop hole that we are paying for today. Even CAFE was a flop in that it took all this time and the Fleet fuel useage increased even with more 4 cylinder cars in the market place.

    Like I said earlier, come up with a EV that will give me 120 miles to a charge and I more than likely will not even buy a ICE powered small car again. Give me a Hybrid or Diesel 1/2 ton truck or SUV and I may never buy a gas powered truck again. I have even decided to look into a propane conversion for my Tow vehicle. Might not work but unless gas drops to less than 4 bucks a gallon it might be worthwhile over the long run.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    There should be no national speed limit. Speed limits should be determined for the individual roads themselves.

    I-95 in South Carolina should most likely be 75-80 mph... yet the same road in between Washington-Baltimore area would most likely be 65 mph, due to the number of commuters.

    Likewise, highways in Montana and North Dakota should not even have speed limits, as there is so little traffic on them. But Los Angeles should have whatever is reasonable and prudent.

    Which means, of course, that the job of setting the speed limit must be removed from the government... as there is a conflict of interest. Governments see speed limits as a way to raise money, so they naturally will choose whatever speed limit that can maximize their 'take'.
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >What was that you posted about a Diesel Prius with no automatic?

    I was talking about the Toyota Agyo
    http://www.toyota.fr/cars/new_cars/aygo/index.aspx

    63+ mpg highway in diesel.
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    Lemko wrote :
    "Is it true that Texas is so big you can start at one end early in the morning and it'll get dark by the time you reach the other end or is that an exaggeration? "
    Lessee, 800 + miles divided by 65 mph average speed assuming meals and bathroom breaks(quick ones) equals 12.3 hours. That would be an affirmative partner.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Which means, of course, that the job of setting the speed limit must be removed from the government... as there is a conflict of interest.

    Then who would set the speed limit?

    Governments see speed limits as a way to raise money, so they naturally will choose whatever speed limit that can maximize their 'take'

    If that was truly the case then anyone doing 1 MPH over the limit would get a ticket.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >and maybe a few areas of the US,

    Bullet trains are also a strong competitors to planes in all journeys of less than 600 miles distance.

    I believe with sufficient investment, a bullet train network could easily cover 25% of the US population, linking key built-up areas.

    There would even be a point for overnight high speed services from E coast to W coast.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    >only thing that raises congestion (outside construction and accidents) is more cars,

    Actually a consistent speed among all the cars would permit more efficient use of the lanes already in place because they could be used by all cars in the narrow speed band. I.e., here where there are three lanes on an interstate the left lane tends to have more open, unused slows because the high speeders feel that's their lane and they tailgate anyone who dares get into that lane at the speed limit. If all three lanes could be used by cars going 65 during high density times, more cars could flow more easily with less congestion.

    This is readily apparent on the two lane interstate where the left lane is open a lot because of the aggressive attitude of some people about not sharing the road.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    The idea of high speed rail has been floated through the midwest as a panacea to the highway problems and as a gasoline saver. Won't work.

    The idea of a rail between Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland ahs been floated 3 times here in Ohio. I believe it made it to the referendum ballot one time and was roundly defeated. The idea that a railroad between the 3 cities would save much time or fuel is wrong. The people who might want to travel from Cincinnati to Columbus daily aren't going to take a train because they have to drive from their various homes to the central location to get the rail station. A few riders from Central Cincy or Central Columbus are going to be the exception. After someone gets to the terminal city they have to be able to get to the location for their business or whatever they are doing. Rent a car? Just drive the 2 hours and you have your car with you.

    The high cost of millions per mile will end up in cost overruns increasing the cost in multiples, and it will end in huge graft and crime scandals for years to come if it ever gets finished.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Oh I believe Bullet trains would work well on the East Coast through the Great Lakes and on the West Coast. But I think there is limited use for them say between the Mississippi River and California.

    There would even be a point for overnight high speed services from E coast to W coast.

    It would take at least a day, maybe a day and a half for that trip. A plane would be much, much faster.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    That trip across Texas was in 1982. 55 limit and probably a bit more than my standard 10 mph over. I started the day pretty early and left Deming, NM and just kept moving except for gas and food both of which were quick stops. Plenty of nothing to look at. Heck, when El Paso is the highlight you know you're in trouble. I meant to stop just as the sun went down but ended up a little further down the road. Ended up in Kerrville, TX. Nowhere near the eastern end of the state - south of San Antonio. (All this accomplished in an 80 Accord. You can do that when you're short.)

    The next evening I was in Houston after spending a couple of hours checking out San Antonio which was the one place I saw in Texas that I liked big time.

    Funny thing - in that tiny piece I drove in the dark into Kerrville the long stretches of desert, barbed wire and tumbleweeds turned green and nice. I almost went back to see where it had changed.

    Always interesting seeing the size of Western states when you are used to a state where you can get almost anywhere from anywhere in a bit over three hours. In that same trip I went down most of the west coast (souther Washington to LA).
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    "I was talking about the Toyota Agyo
    http://www.toyota.fr/cars/new_cars/aygo/index.aspx

    63+ mpg highway in diesel."


    You know when I think about it maybe just getting a good public transportation system would be the best design improvement we could get. If we could get places that we had to get to and simply hop a bus, light rail or even a mono rail some of us might be able to give up our cars all together. I know people in New York that don't even have a car. Think how much we could save in gas and insurance costs.

    I have been to Japan and experienced their public transportation and I believe I could get used to something like that. Even the Underground in London and their bus system makes it possible to live without a car during the week. A person could still have their sports car, SUV, truck, or touring car for weekends but commuting would be far less stressfull if we had a public transportation system worth a darn in this country.

    A few weeks ago my wife and I took the Metro link into LA from San Bernardino. In the early morning rush hour we were able to make it into LA in less than an hour. we spent the day with friends and came home about 4PM. All in all it was a stress free ride. If such a option would have been available to me when I worked in LA years ago I would have taken the train all of the time. You could read or do small tasks on your computer while drinking coffee and not bothering with traffic.

    When I used to commute to LA about 9 out of 10 cars only had one person in it. We might need to give up some of that kind of independent thinking.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,673

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    if the ownership and maintenance costs arent higher.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Nope it wouldn't, the only thing that raises congestion (outside construction and accidents) is more cars, lowering the speed limit will not add more cars to the road.

    Yes lowering the SL does not add more cars to the road per se. What a lower SL does is keep the same number of cars on the road longer, thus that does decrease the thruput on the road, and that is thus the inverse of congestion.

    What matters is how many cars you can get down a certain stretch of the road, and that is dependent on speed.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    From El Paso, both I-20 and I-10 run more than 800 miles before they hit the Louisiana border. A 55 mph speed limit simply won't work here.

    This is why people don't want a bunch of busybodies who live in crowded, crime-infested cesspools like Washington, D.C. telling us how fast we can drive.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    If that was truly the case then anyone doing 1 MPH over the limit would get a ticket.

    Your right that they aren't "maximizing" their take. Because they could ride 95% of the driving public a speeding ticket at any given moment.

    But the government and police do have the SL's set so low that whenever they want and to whomever they want, they can pull them over for speeding. The police subjectively let the 9 out of 10 people driving 31-40 in a 30mph zone go by; and then decide that the '85 Impala with 4 teenagers in it going 35mph looks like they have other potential violations (though the cop doesn't know at this point), and pulls them over.

    Not always, but many times - The cops basically use the low SL to justifiably pull vehicles over, so a snot to violate the Bill of Rights. The lower SL's are a way to stop people without violating their rights, and to go fishing for other offenses.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Nippon I never thought you would be one to say the manufacturers should only produce what they say the people want. When the people wanted SUVs you clamored for more Sub Compacts.

    Well, in the case of many SUV owners, the subcompact would have served all their needs (solo commute car and occasional weekend trip) just as well, they just wanted the "rugged image" and the 14 mpg that went with it.

    I can appreciate the need to have an operating range of more than 100 miles, as I often do more than that in a day. The old EVs were made to a mandate, the new ones won't be so they should be economically viable, don't you think? As such, they need to get to that 200-mile number for daily operating range. They would be much more likely to generate sales at that point.

    And that wouldn't be the automakers telling the people what they want, that would be the people insisting to the automakers on a certain minimum of utility.

    Me, I probably still wouldn't buy one, because how are you going to put a stick shift in an electric car?? :cry:

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kendahlkendahl Member Posts: 3
    Military officers are advised never to give orders they know won't be obeyed. To do so is futile and just diminishes their authority otherwise. When the 55 mph national speed limit existed, it was the most disrespected and violated law on the books. Does anybody remember the slogan, "Repeal 55. Vote with your right foot." Why resurrect a failed idea?

    The best way to set speed limits is the 85% rule. Set the limit so that at least 85% of drivers voluntarily comply with it. Then, enforce it flexibly so that good drivers in good cars are given leeway to go faster than old geezers in RVs. (At 63, I'm rapidly approaching geezerhood, but you won't find me creeping down the road at a snail's pace.)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    But if you left from Deming in the morning, you had at least 100 miles of New Mexico to drive across on I-10 before you hit Texas, right?

    Here in California, if you drive from the Mexican border to the Oregon border on I-5, that is a comparable distance, roughly 750 miles. That is a highway where the SL never exceeds 70, even though some parts are very remote from the cities and could easily be run at 80 or more.

    The problem, of course, is that it is only 2 lanes in each direction in all those remote areas, and with all the trucks on the roads these days, the speed differential between cars and commercial trucks is too great if you allow the cars to go 85 or whatever. With the very poor driving skills of most Americans (lane discipline, passing speed, etc), this can create big problems.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Me, I probably still wouldn't buy one, because how are you going to put a stick shift in an electric car??

    Same way you do it with a nonelectric car, although in most converted electric cars you just leave it in 3rd all the time. Most conversions use manual trannys because the losses in the slushbox kill the range, although using a large enough motor can mean skipping the transmission altogether.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    With the very poor driving skills of most Americans (lane discipline, passing speed, etc), this can create big problems.

    If so, don't you find it amazing that European countries would give U.S. citizens temporary driving privileges in their countries? We must be killing them left-and-right with our visitors. ;)
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    "Me, I probably still wouldn't buy one, because how are you going to put a stick shift in an electric car?? "

    I understand your concern but either we have a problem with petroleum or we don't. If we don't then there is no reason to accept any design or life style compromises and we can continue on the path we were going on with high powered vehicles no matter what the size. If we do have a concern with petroleum supplies and the effect ICE has then we need to do something different.

    If this is another false alarm like we had in the 70s then we need do nothing and people will simply get used to 5 buck a gallon gas. But if there is a problem what better time than now to move towards EVs and Mass Transit? And yes alternative fuels like fuel cells might work as well. However the Honda Fuel cell we see on TV promoting Honda's commitment to cleaner air doesn't come with a manual either. ;)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well of course, statistically speaking Americans are a very minute percentage of the drivers on European roads, and many are so intimidated they choose NOT to drive while they are there. If we were there on the roads in any serious numbers, I think it would be no time at all before American drivers were banned from European roads.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yes, about 100 miles to the border so in theory if I started at the border at the same time I'd have still had light in Kerrville. Still a heck of a drive.

    Down the west coast I was hugging the coast all the way. Certainly no hurry to get through places like Big Sur and Mendocino. That took a while and I wasn't complaining in the least.

    Interesting slant on the laws that people ignore. For big stretches of the Garden State Parkway the limit in 65 and no one goes that slow. 75 - 80. There's a 20 mile stretch that had enough spinouts that they lowered the limit to 55. For a couple of weeks they aggressively enforced it and people slowed down. Once the extra enforcement was gone they sped right back up.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,806
    has a 45 mph limit, so 55 would be an improvement.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Having the right to drive 100 mph, doesn't necessarily mean it is feasible given the traffic and weather conditions. If traffic is heavy and moving at 60 mph, then it is reasonable to expect a person would drive in that ballpark. So I agree with you that there shouldn't be a great disparity. However if the roads are empty ...

    People still need to be responsible for driving at a speed that is safe for conditions. I proposed a system that looks at your driving history and rewards those who have not caused accident - showing they are responsible and can be expected to continue to behave responsible, to choose their reasonable SL.


    Absolutely excellent description, clarification, and explanation of your ideas and system. Great idea and this would be 1,000,000 (yes, that's one million, and I'm not exaggerating) of a better idea than lower speed limits to a god awful 55 MPH.

    55MPH would add to traffic and congestion (which DECREASES fuel efficiency) because its like trying to use a garden hose to push out the amount of water you'd get out of a fire hose! It just won't work. The water will have to flow faster in order to be more effficient, but you can't go any faster because I don't see extra lanes going up on my interstates anytime soon. The hose isn't getting bigger, but the amount of water is, so unless speed limits go UP, and not down, we are in for a world of hurt.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Tailgating is aggressive behavour against someone who is going slower than the person doing the tailgating. To put it more directly, if the tailgating didn't want or need to go faster than the car infront of it there wouldn't be tailgating. Its pretty much is an attempt to get the person to either move faster or out of the way.

    In short, I am more important than you get out of my way.


    I usually only resort to tailgating when an obviously incompetently unskilled driver is in a left most lane and blocking traffic (and/or causing traffic to pile up), I won't usually find tailgating to be an issue in the slow lane, as the faster drivers understand that the right lane is the slow lane, but when the fast lane is dominated by the slow lane drivers, yes, the faster drivers are MORE IMPORTANT and should have first rights to that far left lane! Every lane change to the left should result in 5MPH increase. Changing lanes does not give you the right of way, please speed up prior to changing lanes, and do not force the faster lanes to brake behind you.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    For me I definitely believe that safety would be greatly improved by people driving between 65 to 75 with semi's and commercial trucks over 22,000 gvw limited to 68 mpg electronically.

    Imagine that your drivers license is similar to an easy pass so that when you get into the car, the car recognizes who is driving, and how fast that person is allowed to drive.

    Or Imagine that all cars have a GPS system and a database of what the speed limit is on various roads and electronically limit your speed to within 8 mph of the speed limit?


    When your wife or closest relative gets shot and I'm the good samaritan driving them to the hospital 3 miles away to potentiall save their life in those critical minutes, will you be the first in line to sue the GPS limiting me to only 8 over the arbitrary speed limit of that area because if I had been a minute faster they would have survived the injury?

    Now they are dead, all because of a stupid SL.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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