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Comments
What matters is the length of time taken to pass. If someone is trying to pass at a slower rate than the flow of traffic for that lane, then they should pass as quickly as is safe... or else give up and stop trying.
However, if there is no traffic in the passing lane... than that 2 mph might actually BE acceptable.
I look at passing with the phrase "S*@t, or get off the pot!" mentality. IE - pass... or get out of the way. Don't try, DO.
:P
And that's quite rude. Passing should be done as quickly as is safely possible.
Which means that you'll be in the right-hand lanes when all those rude, lawbreaking speed-demons pass you in the left lane.
Therefore, you don't have to worry about the problem.
I don't agree with that, thats like saying the guy infront of me at the grocery store with a full cart is being discourteous simply for getting in line before me.
When entering a lane of traffic, you must match your speed to the traffic in that lane.
But it is rare that all traffic in a lane is going the same speed so which one do I choose? In cases where all traffic in a lane is going the same speed its usually because of high congestion so its pretty much a moot point.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So if I am doing 70 passing a truck doing 55 and you come up behind me in your Vette doing 150 and have to hit your brakes am I passing at an unreasonable speed?
I'm not advocating violence,
Thats exactly what you are advocating.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
--55 was just like all the crap that goes on in the airports today ! !
a STUPID way to make people feel safe-when really-it wasa way for the goverment to make money off of the citizens!!..55 was a way for the states to pick your pocket,as the freeways,-even in the east,-were desined for 70..that's why it's near impossible to drive that slow-even if you wanted to!!..55 is a way for people who shouldn't be driving-to feel like they can drive,when it's so boring,you are easily distracted!..at 70,the road will keep your attention-or you'll soon find yourself parked funny in the corn field!-upside down!! :mad:
And when I said match the speed of the lane you are entering, it was shorthand for match the speed of the person you are about to be in front of. We were talking about passing on the interstate - if you are on the urban 8-lane at rush hour none of these common courtesies is going to come into play much, as everyone is chugging along at the same 10 mph.
But if you are on rural I-5/I-10/I-whatever, speed up to pass, don't impede other drivers in the passing lane, it's just discourteous. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Not sure which side of the Cheddar Curtain you are talking about but I do know that Wisconsin police have a reputation for pulling over cars with Illinois plates at the drop of a hat.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am 100% serious here and Golfmans scenario is exactly like someone with a full shopping cart in front of you in the grocery checkout lane.
Here is why, the guy with the full cart is going to go through the checkout slower than you just the same way as Golfman is passing the car slower than you. And just like the guy with the shopping cart is in front of you is just due to timing so is Golfman is infront of you due to timing. And just as you should be patient and wait for the guy in front of you to go through you should just be patient and wait for golfman to complete his pass. It will only slow you down for a few seconds.
And when I said match the speed of the lane you are entering, it was shorthand for match the speed of the person you are about to be in front of.
And what if that person is doing an unreasonable unsafe speed?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Looks like you are living in a good place because areas with bike friendly infrastructures are precious and few.
You are one of the few who don't regard mass transit as for the people on the brink of poverty. I also have high regard for mass transit and I can quote the examples of a few cities I knew before and after mass transit was implemented. This really changed the quality of life.
incidentally, when I travelled in Berlin or Munich, I saw many people taking their bike when boarding the train (U-Bahn). the density of the network coverage allow for people to cycle to and from the train station, which makes a very low oil consuming journey. Trains come with a luggage compartment so that it is possible to make deliveries /cycle with the U-Bahn.
cycling is mybe the solution that offers an incredible combination of economy and health, but nothing serious is done in order to accomodate cyclists. This is very regretful. Some people prefer to spend $50 monthly in gas and gym subscription to give themselves the feeling of doing exercise.
Somehow I don't know how mass transit are so looked down upon in the US. Depending from one single transportation way is as healthy as having one single candidate to choose for the president run. I view the absence of choice as a kind of dictatorship. Cars are great but car dictatorship is not.
We have been through the era of large SUV with a cupboard-like air drag coefficient. How about re-developping sleek station-wagons like the Germans do ?
While being in an Escalade allows certainly for a good seating, a longer sleeker (and lighter) station wagon could offer better fuel efficiency.
The downside would be much less inside accomodation height and overall volume.
The plus would be a sedan-like comfort and road holding ability. just compare the E / 5 / A6 in SW or Sedan versions.
I look at the buick Roadmaster Estate (Station Wagon 4Dr). maybe a similar concept with 7 seats, a better aerodynamism and of course more efficient powertrains could easily edge the FE of the coming compact SUV.
I heard Cadillac is developing a CTS wagon. the GM group is already offering good SW through Saab and Opel. not sure why they don't push them in the US.
There is nothing wrong with travelling the-flow-of-traffic on a road. What is wrong is that the SL's have not been adjusted to what people are travelling.
I think you consider the SL as some sort of moral absolute good-bad decision. They aren't. The statistics indicate that there is no reason to have the speed limits set for everyone as low as they are, based on safety. The main reason I see for SL's is to 1) generate revenue for certain gov't's and 2) to provide a reason for police to stop people they deem "undesireable" or "possibly criminal".
And I also think your grocery analogy isn't that relevant. What you really should have said is that Golfman should stay behind the slow-moving person, and not get in the way of the people going to the Express Line.
As for the people who find that speed limits shouldn't be set by the states and the local municipalities, the problem is that there are laws. The laws against murder, illegal immigration, drugs, morals in politics, drinking while driving all seem to be variable and a few people feel they shouldn't exist if it inconveniences themselves. But the laws are set by society for just that reason.
kernick says: >if you want to pass look in the rearview mirror; if you see someone or multiple cars closing on you, then don't get in the passing-lane at that moment :sick:
If those people, who I assume are speeding since the speed limits don't apply to them, are in the right hand lane, they won't be so obvious part of the time. AND they can just be courteous and get in the grocery line while the person who moved out to pass completes the pass. Then they can continue flaunting their violation of the speed limit.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What is wrong is that the people have not been adjusting to the speed limit.
"Speed Limit" the maximum speed allowed under law in the most optimum conditions.
It, the speed limit, is absolute, not a guide and the people are lawfully bound to be submissive to the letter of the law so learn to knuckle under & be conforming.
I guess you never know who you are sitting next to on public transport.
Except for the "2 mph" pass, agree completely. Practice this all the time and wish that others would. Wonder if this is taught in high school driver's ed and other courses.
Even doing this, sometimes when passing a long line of slow trucks, cars who are in right lane, someone who had been way way back in my mirror and is going very fast will be getting closer to me. Many times I will find a slot in right lane, duck in safely and briefly, and then get back out into left lane to resume passing rest of slow trucks, cars.
What is "wrong" is that some people are terminally unable to question the actions and regulations of an incompetent government when it comes to traffic regulations, yet will hold most other actions of the same government as flawed and incapable of being correct.
It's simply not your business if others wish to drive a speed seen as acceptable by the rest of the developed world. The silent generation is why the US is faltering. You give this illiterate Clark county babble about law adherence, as if you have never broken a law. Those who live in glass houses...
I hope you're joking. For there have been and still are many bad laws. Wasn't it Yoda who said, "Only a Sith believes in absolutes."?
And a speed limit or any law is not absolute; it is simply a number CHOSEN and can be CHANGED at any time.
Examples - many of the idiotic sheep of the Soviet Union (ah the good old days of Stalinism, where even the THOUGHT of rebellion against the state was against the law), [non-permissible content removed] Germany, Prohibiton, and Southern Segregation laws. So many good law-abiding citizens.
While SL is certainly not so serious, I am always amazed at the number of people who blindly obey. Oh yes the common excuse is that's the past, and our leaders are better morally and smarter people (I haven't seen the great evolutionary jump). Think about the fact that the government could right now scoop up anyone for any purported reason, and send them to Guantanomo for as long as they want.
At different times in past, I have talked to some members of highway dept in my county on issues. They are level headed and the actions that they have taken over the years on adjusting speed limits on various roads (not interstate) have been sensible and correct. Citizens, as always, have voice with their elected leaders and highway dept on speed limits as well as any other road/highway issue.
I suppose an alternative to having highway depts studying and adjusting speed limits should be given over to some one else. Teen age guys? Guys going 20-30 over on interstates?
Think about the fact that the government could right now scoop up anyone for any purported reason, and send them to Guantanomo for as long as they want.
Better be careful what is said here. Pretty soon the guys in black suits and black Suburbans will scoop up recalcitrant posters and ship to Gitmo.
Our leaders are probably even less competent now than in the past, and that's saying something. I am sure some out there would send speeders to G'mo and keep the show trials going.
You are going 70 in a 65,(interstate) you come up on a driver that's going the 68 mph I described in an earlier scenario. In theory it should take about 10 seconds to pass. I pull into the left lane to start to pass but wait, the car in the right hand lane suddenly realize he (or she) is going too slow and decides to step on the pedal. This means I may have to go 75 (or more) to complete the pass. Since we are now going side by side, my only option is to either risk a ticket (I'm already speeding AND in the passing lane) or hit my brakes a bit and pull back in behind the other driver. I may or may not get rear ended by the driver coming up on me in the left lane. Either scenario is not good. Probabbly a good reason for road rage (not mine) on somebody's part although I may be the indirect cause.
The direct cause is the guy who doesn't like my 70-75 mph pace while completing the pass.
Or am I the DIRECT cause?
They accuse the government of being incompetent & proclaim their kind are somehow more enlightened, superior in knowledge and driving ability when in practice are a menace to others who are law abiding. Self centered, undisciplined, and egalitarian drivers who view the traffic laws with disdain - for those laws demanding respect and they behave without respect in most phases of their lives.
So, when you appear before the Judge, be sure to spew your opinions to him as you so freely do in these posts. See how far you get with Authority. :mad:
Respect must be earned, and the blind deference of the silent generation is not worthy of respect, for it leads to destruction. You are not authority. Do you understand? You are not authority. You are not a judge. You have no recourse.
If you have ever broken a single law, by your mindset you have absolutely no right to lecture anyone, and are no better than those you whine about.
Better yet, for those who insist that all laws are to be accorded equal weight, one has to ask that if this is so, why aren't punishments for offenses equal across the board?
If speed limits have same level of gravity as the laws prohibiting murder, I wonder why no state provides for the death penalty or life imprisonment without parole for driving 80 mph in the 65 mph zone.
By the same token, I doubt that if any of us murder someone in cold blood, the maximum penalty will be a $150 fine, plus court costs.
Well, let's start with the big cities then. We could accomplish a lot just starting there. I could count on one hand the number of cities with good public transit and high ridership. We need to get that number WAY up.
The more we wait, the more large businesses will move out of the traditional urban centers into the 'burbs, and the more difficult this task will become.
And lemmer, come come now, let's not fearmonger!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The SL's should be set according to what the majority of the drivers on any particular stretch of road are driving. It's that simple.
Ex. If on an interstate that's posted 65mph, the majority of the people are driving 70-80 mph, then the SL should be set at 80mph. Keep a separate lower SL for vehicle's with poor driving dynamics - RV's buses, and trucks.
Option 2 ) If we have the money, and we do have the technology the SL could be based on your driving record and the performance capabilities of the vehicle you are driving. Reward driving experience, safe driving record, any advanced driver training, and the type of vehicle you drive - sports car allowed faster than a MV.
I'd prefer them to anti-tank missiles.
But I agree, poor lane discipline caused by people thinking a SL sign is the bible and gospel truth handed down by God is a big problem that causes most traffic situations in the US.
The problem isn't too many cars, it's too many bad drivers with poor lane discipline, poor merging skills, and poor accident avoidance skills.
what you are describing is not only rude, it is extremely rude.
8 seconds might not take into account someone's desire to have a cushion behind them when they pass a slower moving vehicle.
Also, why not wait to pass at a slow speed for a time when you will not impede and slow down traffic behind you. I'd say cutting off a Vette doing 150 MPH is a bad idea, why not let it pass first before attempting your rude passing manuever. If you can't pass without impeding traffic, don't try it, don't do it!
Or am I the DIRECT cause?
No, he/she has caused the problem by speeding up when they can see you are attempting to pass, another discourtesy.
Which brings up another issue: the total lack of awareness of most drivers of what is going on on the road around them. Our drivers have such poor skills it is no wonder the folks in power think we need a low SL just to keep everyone safe.
Where they have a disconnect is in not realizing that just putting a speed on a signpost will not cause the majority of drivers to actually stay below it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Easy and correct/right answer: Avoid him or her, don't impede him or her, and don't block him or her.
As with any unsafe driver, I like to distance myself.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/rightsof/
In fact, the Bill of Rights can be read as the definitive statement of that most American of values: the idea that the individual is prior to and takes precedence over any government.
The traffic laws in CA demand no respect. They are insanely incompetent, ignorant laws with ridiculously lowest common demoninator speed limits. They exist soley for the corrupt and greedy traffic officers, judges, and other monetary beneficiaries for the sole reason that it provides them greater wealth through unfairly high fines and a justice system that mocks what our forefathers wrote in the constitution!
Most people's only experience with the US Justice/Court system is through Traffic Court (hopefully), and it is no wonder to me that young people today have little to no respect for the law, courts, justices, police, sheriffs, and other law enforcement. The SHAM this money making industry is, is putting a black eye on the US Constitution and our Country. The joke of our court system and the loss of people's rights is staggering!
1) You cannot have a fair trial unless you have a right to a Jury trial! (no can do in traffic court!)
2) You cannot have a fair trial unless the proceedings are recorded either electronically or by a court recorder/reporter.
3) You abolish wannabe judges and referees and only use real Commissioners/Judges.
4) Judges are held to higher accountability for their misdeeds during a trial and the public is given great authority to reprimand them for blatant favoritism.
5) DA's should be held to respond to traffic court discoveries and information replies just as they do for criminal cases.
6) all laws are enforeced equally and blindly by the law, and that means issuing sanctions when the DA or CHP don't respond to Discovery clauses and penal codes in the allotted time frames. If the defendant can be fined, why can't the Police Officers or DA for violating the Penal Code.
7) Enforce our Constitution! Meaning you have a right to face your accuser, and a red light camera is not someone you can cross examine in court, therefore, all video enforcement should be abolished immediately!!! No one witnessed the taking of the video, then it is hearsay evidence, not acceptable!
We need to wake up and realize our current gov't will never be 1/100th as smart as the writers and authors of our Nation's Constitution.
Right. With increased use of cell phones, which decrease alertness as if one drinking alcohol, and text messaging, plugging in Ipods, etc., we have to account for lowest denominator in setting speed limits. The fool drivers that use these gadgets distract themselves from the driving task at hand. Just other day saw a woman with a cell phone to her head driving in center lane of I90 at about 70.
You have no RIGHT to drive, and traffic infractions are not criminal offenses (except DUI if you do a bad bad thing while driving drunk, like hurt someone), which is why the constitution does not guarantee you these things you want in traffic court. It is also why the DA plays no role in traffic court.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Who says I don't want the rights that come with a criminal offense? What is this "Infraction" thing concocted by greedy gov't insiders?
I know that some so-called infractions can ruin my pursuit of happiness with fines approaching $500 for red-light violations!!! (and no distinction is made between a CA stop right turn and running a red light at 50 mph). Shame on the Gov't again!
Oh wait, it is not a fine, it's called "court fees, assessments, and penalties." Whatever you call it, infraction, fine, fee, charges, surplus, it doesn't matter, it all costs the same.
Who is the one who decided trading "no time in jail" was worth losing your right to a trial by jury with a DA present to prosecute? I didn't plea bargain this. I'd rather up the stakes in order to get a fair trial, rather than play lowstakes with rigged games (which is what traffic court in CA is).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Show me someone who drives slowly and I’ll show you a catastrophic bore. Someone whose life is empty, shallow and pointless. But there’s more to it than that.
They are also deeply unpleasant. Like bell ringers, they wish to impose their beliefs and their way of life on everyone else. They are people with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in amoral behaviour without empathy or remorse. And that’s the dictionary-definition of a psychopath.
I'd say that's the wrong solution for those issues. Just as it would be wrong to keep everyone from turning right-on-red because some drivers have a hard time judging whether it is safe to go.
Similarly in the winter if I'm an experienced driver on snow and have snow-tires on my car, I do not limit my driving to someone who is not experienced and does not have snow-tires.
But like I was saying light rail would be a boon. You can stow your bike on Metro link and take it out when you get to LA. The Problem is I would have to go all the way to San Bernardino to use it. It would be great if the bus connected me but it doesn't go there from here in the early morning. But if we were willing to invest in mass transit like we did in the highway program in the 50s we could make a great impact on fuel useage in a very short period of time. But I don't believe people feel this fuel situation is real. Why make an effort to change if it is just another scam like they played on us in the 70s? I don't believe that except we are now being told that there is more oil off of the California Coast than in all of Saudi Arabia. That might not be true but it doesn't help if the pundants keep saying it and the voters keep believing it.
Like I said I am willing to do my part as I did back in the 70s. I feel I got suckered a bit because not many of my fellow commuters seemed to follow suit and cars got bigger and faster in less than 15 years. I road motorcycles to work every day for at least 10 years. I bought a small compact truck and drove it or my VW Bug or Ghia to commute. By 1985 or at least by 1990 every other car next to me was a SUV or Full sized pickup. Like I said a new Camry is bigger than my Pontiac. It is not a Grand Am by the way, it is a Sun Bird with a 2.0.
So what am I willing to give up or accept as a design trade off? I would give up size and weight and even engine size if I could also get mass transit. I will ride my bike to the grocery store and to do small errands to save gas. I will try to find an EV for driving around town for those times the Bike won't work. But I will keep my Tahoe to pull my trailer on Vacations , thank you very much. :P
One thing you have to remember I am not arguing for or against any SL, just discussing some of the arguments people seem to be presenting.
The main reason I see for SL's is to 1) generate revenue for certain gov't's
And I have said if thats the case they would be pulling over anyone doing 1 MPH over the limit. They would get a lot more bucks in the coffer.
And I also think your grocery analogy isn't that relevant.
It is very relevant. In the analogy someone in front of you with a full cart is going to take longer than someone with a much less in their cart, thereby slowing you down even more. Just like Golfman would be slowing down someone more than if than if they were behind someone passing faster.
But the one thing I cannot figure out is why is it rude for me to have someone adjust their driving but not rude for that other person to have me adjust mine?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D