Fuel Economy and Oil Dependency

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    what you are describing is not only rude, it is extremely rude.

    I seriously disagree with that. For one thing just because you are driving faster than someone else doesn't mean you have right of way.

    Whats rude is the attitude people like you seem to have about get out of my way or else.

    I suggest to you that pushing someone like that expecting them to alter their driving just so your not inconvieneced is extremely rude.

    Wait the small amount of time it takes the person to pass and be calm about it (you will live longer) getting to your destination 10 seconds later isn't going to kill you.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    thats not always possible.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    ) You cannot have a fair trial unless you have a right to a Jury trial! (no can do in traffic court!)

    Are you sure about that? Around here you can have a trial by jury, the judge will even address that at the opening of the court session.

    2) You cannot have a fair trial unless the proceedings are recorded either electronically or by a court recorder/reporter.

    Around here proceedings in traffic court are recorded, there are even signs stating so.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    It is also why the DA plays no role in traffic court.

    Every time I have been in a traffic court there has been an ADA handling cases.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    Its rather rude to expect someone to change their behaviour just so you can get some place a few seconds faster.

    ... your point can also be read that "it's rather rude to expect someone to change their behaviour just so you" can take your leisurely time in passing.

    Why do you only find it rude when other make you change your behavior... but find it perfectly good to make others conform to your behavior?
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    Here we have the crux of the problem.

    Some believe that laws are enacted... to reflect our morality. (and thus act out their morality, regardless of law)

    Others believe that our morality is set by our laws. (ie - if it's legal it's okay, if it's not... then it's wrong)

    And that's the competing views in this debate.

    Some believe the speed limit to be wrong... and will do what they believe right.
    Other use the law as their guidelines for right and wrong... and will thus, follow only the law.

    ---

    If, tomorrow, your state passed a law requiring everyone to wear a clown's nose (or face a $20 fine), would you?
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    Why do you have to hit your brakes to pull back in behind the other driver?

    Just take your foot of the gas and gravity/friction will slow you down quick enough.

    (It's a pet peeve of mine, seeing people hit the brakes for no other reason than because they are driving 1...2...3...5...10 mph too fast for their comfort. Mainly because anyone behind them will brake reflexively because of it, which then leads to a rolling stop on the road.)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Wait the small amount of time it takes the person to pass and be calm about it (you will live longer) getting to your destination 10 seconds later isn't going to kill you.

    It might not kill me, but it's wasting my hard earned cash when I have to brake and waste my $4.50/gallon gas because of drivers like you. :P

    I shouldn't have to adjust, I'll stay fast in the fast left lane, and you'll stay slow in your slow right lane. When I change lanes to the right, I'll either slow down or find an empty space. When you change lanes to the left, you should either speed up or not do so. You are adjusting your lane, and therefore need to adjust your driving. It is quite simple really.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Trial rights in your home State of IL!

    If that's true, and you get to have jury trials and they are recorded for traffic offenses, AMEN! Lucky you. Maybe IL is a lot more advanced than CA. California is the most corrupt state in the union then! SHAME on CA. I hope the Big ONE hits and all of us in CA are pushed 10' deep into the Pacific Ocean!

    So there are some States that respect the Constitution of the U.S! CA isn't one of them.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    >It might not kill me, but it's wasting my hard earned cash when I have to brake and waste my $4.50/gallon gas because of drivers like you.

    If you are concerned about fuel mileage, just slow down to begin with instead of trying to bully other drivers and speed. Saving gasoline is the tenet on which the lower speed limit is based!!! Amazing logic (lack thereof) about wasting fuel because drivers make you slow down...

    Also the very act of pulling up 2 feet off someone's bumper causes them to slow down more. They wonder who the maniac is who's tailgating so dangerously. Do they need to look up the local police number on their cell phone? Dial 911? If the person wanting to go faster stays a reasonable distance back, the person daring to use their lane will probably complete the pass sooner. The tailgater is its own worst enemy!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,054
    Well, let's start with the big cities then. We could accomplish a lot just starting there. I could count on one hand the number of cities with good public transit and high ridership. We need to get that number WAY up.

    Well, I did my part. Back in January, once, instead of driving into DC, I drove to the Metro station and then took the subway in. Oh wait, I did that twice. Grbeck came down a couple weeks later and we took the subway in for the DC auto show. I could have driven there more quickly, to be honest, but then finding parking can be a pain down there. One time a couple years back we parked in an area that didn't look TOO bad during the day. Alas, it wasn't daytime when we got out of the convention center! Although the one drunk hollering at the top of his lungs something like "WHERE MY G-D HOS AT" was kind of amusing. :shades:

    Actually, I thought more businesses and residents were staring to move back into the bigger cities? Or at least, closer in? I know DC has been revitalized lately. In fact, the parking lot we used to park in, for the DC auto show, was developed into a high-rise, so we had to start looking for on-street parking. I think we had to do that in 2006 and 2007, and then for 2008 we took the Metro.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We're talking about what, if anything, the government should do about changing the speed limit. Please focus a bit less about what each of us should be doing, so we don't go off on some personal jags. Thanks.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    If you are concerned about fuel mileage, just slow down to begin with instead of trying to bully other drivers and speed. Saving gasoline is the tenet on which the lower speed limit is based!!! Amazing logic (lack thereof) about wasting fuel because drivers make you slow down...

    Unfortunately even though saving gasoline is a tenet to which the lowering of speed limit proponents argue, it is a FALSE argument, and has been proven as such in this forum over and over. In real world traffic and driving situations, lowering the speed limits could be disastrous in terms of traffic congestion which might reduce the average flow of traffic to something less than 55, and something less efficient fuel efficient than 75 in the process (like 20 MPH?). More people going faster means less traffic for everyone (because they get the hell out of the way and off the roads faster, due to less road time and minutes on the road)

    Your logic is flawed because slowing down my maxiumum speed is one way to potentially save gas in certain limited circumstances, not the ONLY way! Getting rid of bad drivers who impeded traffic and cause accidents would be another way I could save gas, for example.

    Also the very act of pulling up 2 feet off someone's bumper causes them to slow down more.


    Now your logic is further flawed again! :confuse:

    How can tailgating cause someone to slow down? The correct and safe action/reaction to a tailgater is to speed up and/or change lanes (move out and get out of the way) The only thing that causes someone to slow down is them releasing the gas pedal or pushing on the brake, nothing else (except maybe having to do those actions as a direct result of traffic IN FRONT of them). I've never encountered a situation where slowing down because of what someone was doing behind me was a good or proper idea in all my years of driving.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    It might not kill me, but it's wasting my hard earned cash when I have to brake and waste my $4.50/gallon gas because of drivers like you.

    Well its wasting my hard earned cash when I have to either brake and waste my gas or gun it and waste gas because of drivers like you.

    I shouldn't have to adjust,

    Neither should I, so when you come up behind me when I am passing who has to adjust?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    "The correct and safe action/reaction to a tailgater is to speed up and/or change lanes..."

    The correct action is to slam on your brakes, wreck the tailgater's car, laugh while the police cite him for reckless driving as he's being loaded into the Life Flight helicopter, then sue him for everything he owns.

    You'll end his days of tailgating, save hundreds of other drivers from suffering his attempts to bully them, and send a powerful message to other tailgaters that their aggressive behavior has serious consequences.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If that's true,

    Its true, the judge makes it very clear when he addresses the courtroom.

    California is the most corrupt state in the union then!

    Nope IL is, we have one ex Gov in jail a couple of ex Govs that are ex cons (both have long since passed this world) and one current Gov that stands a good chance of going to club Fed. More Federal corruption investigations are being conducted in IL state Government than any other state.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    and has been proven as such in this forum over and over. In real world traffic and driving situations, lowering the speed limits could be disastrous in terms of traffic congestion

    Correction, it has been claimed not proven. Congestion does not increase as speed decrease.

    The correct and safe action/reaction to a tailgater is to speed up and/or change lanes

    The defensive driving courses I have taken state that the correct/safe reaction to a a tailgater is to slowly slow down. Either they will get the hint or eventually go around.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    "incidentally, when I travelled in Berlin or Munich, I saw many people taking their bike when boarding the train (U-Bahn). the density of the network coverage allow for people to cycle to and from the train station, which makes a very low oil consuming journey. Trains come with a luggage compartment so that it is possible to make deliveries /cycle with the U-Bahn."

    Have you ever experienced Japanese mass transit? How about the Japanese Underground? In London it is one of the best deals around but in Japan if the car capacity reads 85 they don't care if it is 85 Japanese women or 85 Russian weight lifters they are getting 85 people in that train car. I have watched them shove the last one or two people on the car with their hands so that the door can close just missing their cloths. That is only during the busy hours however.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    The defensive driving courses I have taken state that the correct/safe reaction to a a tailgater is to slowly slow down. Either they will get the hint or eventually go around.

    This sounds like a 99 cent defensive driving course, as forcing people to pass on the right is not ideal or safest for everyone on the road.

    As to the others who think slamming on the brakes is a good idea.... most likely the tailgater will be able to slam on his brakes as well, and there will be no collision. The only thing you'll cause is a massive line of cars all slamming on their brakes and create a traffic jam chain reaction which wastes hundres of gallons of fuel as it spirals worse and worse for cars behind and pollutes our air.

    On the other hand, if there is a collision, then you will start racking up accidents on your record and your insurance can go up, even when your found "not at fault or no-fault," which you will be. So the slowpoke impeding traffic does have one advantage in that if he gets rear ended, he can never be at fault, but are people that get in avoidable accidents good drivers? The answer is no.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Congestion increases as speeds decrease for simple mathematical reasons:

    1) Minutes on the road increase for every driver. X per mile.
    2) Driver quantities on the road stay the same. Y (constant)

    3) X x Y = Road minutes for all vehicles

    In a perfect world every car would be able to go the maximum speed bumper to bumper (or 1 mm apart) and ever inch of concrete or asphalt lane could be taken up forming the maximum amount of cars that could fit on the road at any given moment in time. The amount of traffic in terms of cars travelling per day won't change, but if you increase travel times, the amount of traffic (cars) on the road at any given minute will increase.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    The correct action is to slam on your brakes, wreck the tailgater's car, laugh while the police cite him for reckless driving as he's being loaded into the Life Flight helicopter, then sue him for everything he owns.

    You'll end his days of tailgating, save hundreds of other drivers from suffering his attempts to bully them, and send a powerful message to other tailgaters that their aggressive behavior has serious consequences.


    What happens if he's in a Hummer H2 and your in a Ford Festiva? Perhaps it will be you taking more of the damage from behind? The Police won't cite him for reckless driving as rearend collisions happen everyday. The worst they could do would be to cite him for tailgating, but that won't hold up in court cause they didn't witness it.

    So it could be you in the Life Flight Helicopter, and if you sue the driver, they might get a better lawyer and then your out your lawyer fees when they win the case.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Yes, but CA has an Actor as our Governor and he starred in a movie called the Terminator, but worse yet, Last Action Hero. :lemon:
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    This sounds like a 99 cent defensive driving course, as forcing people to pass on the right is not ideal or safest for everyone on the road.

    No it was two defensive driving courses that I took that had that. Secondly who said anything about forcing someone to pass on the right? That is an assumption on your part. I have been in the right lane and have been tailgated, I have been on roads with only one lane in each direction and have been tailgated. Remember not all people tailgating are those in the left lane saying "Get out of my way I am more important that you".

    As to the others who think slamming on the brakes is a good idea

    Then address them not me.

    On the other hand, if there is a collision, then you will start racking up accidents on your record and your insurance can go up, even when your found "not at fault or no-fault,

    Few insurance companies, if any, will increase your insurance if it is determined that the accident is not your fault.

    but are people that get in avoidable accidents good drivers? The answer is no.

    Then everyone who has ever had the slightest accident are bad drivers.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Again false assumptions. Congestion is when there are getting to be more cars on the road than a road can reasonably and safely handle. The faster the SL the fewer cars that can be on a stretch of road.

    Look at it this way, at a two second interval at 75 MPH a one mile stretch of road can handle 24 cars. 30 cars would be making it congested. Reduce that speed to 60 MPH and that interval can remain even with 30 cars so you are reducing said congestion.

    In a perfect world every car would be able to go the maximum speed bumper to bumper (or 1 mm apart) and ever inch of concrete or asphalt lane could be taken up forming the maximum amount of cars that could fit on the road at any given moment in time.

    No because even in a perfect world you have you increase distance between each car as speed increases. If every car were 1 mm apart driving at 60 MPH if the front driver suddenly locked their brakes for whatever reason the first 10-15 cars will run into the car infront of them before the second driver knew what was happening.

    Even in perfect worlds safety has to be taken into consideration.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The worst they could do would be to cite him for tailgating, but that won't hold up in court cause they didn't witness it.

    If the one that was hit shows up to testify the ticket will hold up in court.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Oh "Last Action Hero" isn't that bad, Watch "Hercules in New York" sometime.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Neither should I, so when you come up behind me when I am passing who has to adjust?

    The person already in that lane, has the right of way - courteously speaking. So if you're in the right lane and want to switch to the left, you should courteously defer to not impede the driver already in that lane. If you pull in front of them causing them to brake, IMO that is discourteous.

    In general - you should try not to drive such that you cause others to brake, swerve, or otherwise modify their cruising along, in their lane, if you are changing lanes.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    >you should try not to drive such that you cause others to brake, swerve, or otherwise modify their cruising along, in their lane, if you are changing lanes.

    The question here is whether the 55 mph speed limit should be put back in place to conserve fuel usage because some people want to drive far above the current speed limits using lots of fuel. The result is a few people indicate that people driving at the speed limit or slightly above shouldn't use the left most lane because someone driving far above the speed limit is already in that lane and would have to slow down to nearer the speed limit while the passing car completes their pass.

    >you should courteously defer to not impede the driver already in that lane

    How far back must a car who has stayed in the left most lane to cruise in defiance of many state's "keep right except to pass" laws be before a car may be allowed to use the left most lane for passing? I'm picturing a 2-lane or 3-lane road here. If it's more than three it's a free for all as far as I'm concerned.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >with increased use of cell phones, which decrease alertness as if one drinking alcohol, and text messaging, plugging in Ipods, etc., we have to account for lowest denominator in setting speed limits.

    I call this attitude the Behind-The-Wheel-But-Not-Driving (BTWBND) syndrom

    but in this case even 55 is too high. I suggest 20 mph because with that level of commitment to driving, not getting into an accident could be called a miracle.

    Seriously, if we could divert a measurable portion from SL enforcement against the BTWBND, we would certainly experience a drop in fatalities.

    It is not healthy that the attitude of a few has the law restrict freedom for everyone.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    The question here is whether the 55 mph speed limit should be put back in place to conserve fuel usage because some people want to drive far above the current speed limits using lots of fuel.

    And I think the majority of us here have answered that aspect - saying "you can feel free to do so on an individual basis. 1) It is an individual decision, and 2) the past has shown it to be a failed-solution that few obey. 3) It is also a very, very minute amount that would be saved as a) we're talking about improving mpg a few percent on SOME vehicles when they are on the highway, b) many of us mainly drive in urban or congested areas where the 55 mph is a moot point, and c) the U.S.'s driving is 25% of the global which would further negate any real effect on the GLOBAL demand for gasoline.

    How far back must a car who has stayed in the left most lane to cruise in defiance of many state's "keep right except to pass" laws be before a car may be allowed to use the left most lane for passing?

    There is no 1 correct answer; it needs to be made on a case by case basis. It depends on how congested the right (or middle lanes on 3 lane roads) are. A car may be able to stay in the left-lane and be continually passing for example. Or the car in the left-lane gets back in the right, comes up on slower traffic, checks left that he isn't going to interfere with someone in the leftlane and then passes - all possible while maintaining the same speed.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "n the long term, the governor is considering installing speed cameras in each direction of every interstate in the 20 State Police districts across Illinois to raise $50 million a year in revenue -- enough for 500 more troopers. The money could support an "elite tactical team" and bolster everything from crash investigations to cold-case murder probes, Trent said.

    Asked what speeds Illinois motorists would have to hit before they would get nailed with a camera violation, Guerrero said, "It would have to be egregious -- 80 or 85 mph. We don't know yet."

    Gov hopes to raise millions to fight crime by putting cameras on interstates (Sun Times)
  • xcarxcar Member Posts: 6
    YES,SOMEONE ELSE WHO FEELS A TAILGATER DESERVES WHAT HE OR SHE GETS.THEY MAKE ME WANT TO STOP COMPLETELY,GET OUT,AND JERK THEIR A** OUT THE CAR BY THEIR EYE SOCKETS.POLITELY OF COURSE!
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Actually, I thought more businesses and residents were staring to move back into the bigger cities? Or at least, closer in?

    Here in Denver, that's exactly what is happening. In the 15 years I've lived here, an Air Force Base (Lowry) has shut down and the new airport meant that the old Stapleton site was available.

    Both properties are becoming the model for new neighborhood development .. a mix of residential, retail and some light industrial. It's helped boost the population a bit.

    The next piece of property to be redeveloped is the old Gates rubber factory (yes, where they made, among other things, belts for cars). The plant is only 4-5 miles from downtown Denver and next to a large light rail station. Again, the plan is to mix residential (probably condos and apartments) with some retail. However, given the state of the economy, it may be a few years before that comes to fruition.

    Denver's light rail is also spawning another interesting trend .. near each station, new development is going up so that folks can walk to the station and catch the light rail to downtown. Lofts, apartments, retail all close together.

    At the other end of the spectrum, Denver has also built a "ring road" about 85% around the metro area. While the western and southern portions have been around for 10-20 years and have seen significant growth, the recently completed (and by recent, I mean within the past 5-8 years) eastern and northern sections have only seen limited growth. I suspect that with the price of gas being where it is, the development in that area will slow down considerably.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    The defensive driving courses I have taken state that the correct/safe reaction to a a tailgater is to slowly slow down. Either they will get the hint or eventually go around.

    Bad advice. Tailgating is a form of road rage, the worst thing to do would be to slow down. The tailgater will see this as a retaliatory measure and may escalate the situation by following even closer, speeding up to pass then cutting you off... or even bumping you from the rear.

    The best thing to do is maintain your current speed, pull over if the opportunity presents itself, or if you are in the fast lane.... move over.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • saabgirlsaabgirl Member Posts: 184
    Adjust a squirter nozzle on your windshield to squirt over your car. When someone camps on your butt, pretend to become obsessed with a speck on your windshield and give 'em a squirt or two. Or three. Or ...
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    You might have also highlighted how AZ and IL are a little excited to start collecting some more revenue. It sure sounds like that's the main reason to have lower SL's. I wonder how many police cars will be recorded there speeding, with the officers throwing the finger to the cameras?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    A 55 mph speed limit or even a 60 mph limit will be met by a tiny few with outrage based on posts here. We should just raise the limits to 95 and then they will be happy?

    Amazing attitude study. I started to move to the left lane on a two-lane interstate when I saw 5-6 cars coming up a rightside onramp. The car behind me jumped out accelerating to cut me off before I could block the left lane at 63. So to be courteous I stayed in the left lane and slowed for the merging traffic to allow him not to have to let up on the gas pedal to save fuel. His out-of-state license read "ILUVGOD." Go figure.

    The drop in gas prices shows in that people aren't driving as courteously as they were and they have speeded up. Gas prices have dropped as low as $3.45 and nonminal price is probably $3.59 until Thursday when the monopoly raised their price for the Th/Fi paycheck crowd to fill their tank.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    In some states moving back into the cities might be a viable solution but that isn’t the case with California. With the possible exception of San Francisco and to a degree San Diego what is there in the big cities to move back to? Companies left and moved with the Urban sprawl or to the suburbs. In a state that lives and breaths with the car culture the big cities simply couldn’t provide the parking necessary for the cars the employees had. With no real mass transit there simply wasn’t much of a solution. But with light rail and increased bus routes things could change.

    In California we need a system to connect our cities and counties in such a way as to make city vehicles viable. With a mass transit system that caters to the needs of the consumer rather than the transit company people could give up their BMWs, MB, Lexis, and Caddy’s and only use them on the weekends. With a mass transit system the consumer will gravitate to personal comfort because they spend so much time in the Vehicle. When you are spending hours at a time commuting personal image also becomes important and with cheap fuel you end up with large vehicles with lots of cup holders and a sound system better than you have in your house.

    With a good mass transit system the commuter car can be relegated to a transportation pod that you only need to use to get from one short place to another. You can still have your nice vehicle for personal use on the weekend but the commuter car can be seen as just another tool. Once the commuter car becomes a tool rather than a status symbol people will be more willing to give up some design features for better fuel mileage.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Here's the sort of crappy behavior that can screwup statistics on road safety.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-08-07-ariz_N.htm

    Speed is not the problem. The problem with our roads is drivers who do stuff like this, drink and drive, and are generally inattentive. Maybe we should be much more selective for who gets or gets to keep a license?
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Look at it this way, at a two second interval at 75 MPH a one mile stretch of road can handle 24 cars. 30 cars would be making it congested. Reduce that speed to 60 MPH and that interval can remain even with 30 cars so you are reducing said congestion.

    Our definitions of "congestion" are obviously different. I'd wager my definition is closer to Webster's than yours.

    Think of a hose where the hose is the road available, the water is the cars, and pinholes in that hose are exits, and the end is sealed off.

    You can't decrease the amount of cars/water on/in the hose. So if you decrease the speed at which the water passes through the hose, you will increase the pressure. In real life this will increase the water coming out of those pinholes on the hose, but on the road, the cars exiting at any given point will not increase as they are going where they are going, so if they get there faster by moving along faster, they will be out of the way sooner, and pressure will decrease.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    It is entirely possible to love God and to drive over 63 mph. I am sure of it.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    >It is entirely possible to love God and to drive over 63 mph

    It's the courtesy :cry: not the politics. :(

    It's a little like the careless driver with a Baby on Board sign as if everyone else should be careful around their car to protect the innocent, young lives inside.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    As a California native, I agree with you. Mass transit exists, but most folks probably won't be pried out of their cars until the price of gas goes north of $5/gallon.

    Southern California is wall-to-wall development from the Mexican border north to Santa Barbara and from the beaches at Malibu east to Palm Springs (except where the mountains are too steep to build on).
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    Asked what speeds Illinois motorists would have to hit before they would get nailed with a camera violation, Guerrero said, "It would have to be egregious -- 80 or 85 mph. We don't know yet."

    They can say whatever they want to gain public approval but things sometimes change after everything is in place. I wouldn't be surprised if they change it to 5 mph over the limit after it is all set up.

    I've heard that some toll roads use a timed speed check between the booths. If you arrive at the exit booth sooner than the speed you could have gotten there at the posted speed limit you will be issued a ticket. A truck driver acquaintance told me about this a few years ago - I'm not sure what area it was.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Then everyone who has ever had the slightest accident are bad drivers.

    I didn't say accident, I said accidents (plural). Somone who has a track record of many and frequent (not at fault) accidents is still most likely a bad driver as I don't believe in bad luck. Now you can have slightly more than the average amount of (no-fault) accidents, heck, even I have had those, but if you are having 3X as many, something is wrong.... especially if it happens year after year over a long period of time.

    And believe me, although an accident where your not at fault shouldn't raise your insurance rates, a couple of them might very well (even though they shouldn't). And if you have 3 not at faults in one year, I'm sure most companies would ding you. I think a not at fault is worth 1/3 of a point in some states.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Seriously, 80 or 85 MPH isn't that fast for some vehicles. Now in a Chevy Aveo, you probably have a death wish if you go much over 80 MPH.

    In an R8, it'll feel like your going 20 MPH in an Aveo at 80 MPH in an R8.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    i've gotten the evil eye from the toll collector. when everyone paying their fee has a ticket that started an hour earlier than your's, it not too hard to figure it what's going on. ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >Have you ever experienced Japanese mass transit?

    Never been to Japan. I heard it is very efficient and the daily average service delay is counted in seconds.
    The huge majority of people living in large cities use mass transit. Car is typically used for weekend outings or special occasions.

    Images of people being stuffed in train cars during rush hours are well known, but I believe such situations are not so frequent. I encountered those when mass transit drivers were in strike in France.

    For the London mass transit, I guess I am not too sure, as I haven't used it for some time, but it looked to me pretty much in need of investment as it is not so competitive
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >but most folks probably won't be pried out of their cars until the price of gas goes north of $5/gallon.

    Even at $10 a gallon in Europe, this is still not the case. At least 50 mpg cars are easy to find there.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I've heard that some toll roads use a timed speed check between the booths.

    I've heard of those deals too, over in the EU somewhere iirc.

    Some people pack a picnic and zoom to the next toll plaza, where they pull over and have a leisurely lunch before paying their (now timely) toll.
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