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Tundra vs the Big 3 - Continued
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Toyota loyalist?? Why would you want to be any kind of loyalist?? Do you own the company or something?? I'm not a anything loyalist - I drive what I think is the best product out there. It just so happens that the Silverado is the best out there right now. If Toyota made a better truck than the Silverado I WOULD BUY ONE, but they don't. That comment really disturbs me - it's going to burn you if your not careful.
Primitive drivetrain - Any all the Tacoma parts make the Tundra drivetrain sophisticated? Get real.
I will admit it's probably more nimble and handles better (being smaller). However, just cause Billy Bob or Joe Bob down the street had a bad experience with a Chevy does not mean there all junk. I could spout off about bad Toyota's, but to this day have not. I refuse to drop to some of your guys level. And I'm sorry, but your "friend" must have a smaller than normal garage. Mine fits fine and I have bigger tires that make it sit about 1-2 inches higher - length is fine. Again, your friends or buddies opinions don't hold any weight here - how come you people don't get that???
Wow - lots of post getting wacked, somebody must have a potty mouth...
kyle
all i got to say is this...don't tell me you don't know anything and then give me your opinion - you're just wasting your time. duh...
still don't care to answer that tough question, eh rob? always gotta duck out and talk about something else...typical.
kyle
Like I said before, I am not a truck expert, but "it has been my experience" that toyota and honda products have been far superior to domestics including the small amount of experience I have had with trucks. My only complaint is that they have been somewhat underpowered, and perhaps underbuilt for some truck uses which would warrant the purchase of a silverado or a ford (god forbid).
My experience with foreign vs. domestic? My parents had a 91 camry.. 300k one engine.. My 90 celica, 160k still strong, had a 91 crx that was at 150 till it was totalled. This in comparison to some pretty subpar performances by a buick station wagon, an olds station wagon, a geo metro, and countless other cars that my parents bought in the past that took a !@#$.
Now, I totally agree that every car company has lemons, but when you hear complaints about american car companies and their poor build quality, does it really give you a warm fuzzy going to a dealer and buying a car that was built like !@#$?
Just rifle through a copy of consumer reports reliability reports, and I guarantee you that you will see tons of black in domestic areas, and a considerable amount of red in foreign markets. Or, if you are too lazy, check out the reliability ratings on some common foreign/domestic autos on this website, I think you will see the same trend as I have. I personally get the feeling that american car companies are just out to make a profit, and not a good car.
Now.. sorry to have strayed, but I think we are all straying from the topic some anyways.. i have a few responses to make from my "buddys".
looking at a honda.. ??? when did I ever say that?
Secondly.. allow me to rephrase my "toyota loyalist" statement to say oh.. "import enthusiast", as you may have guessed, it will take a lot of coaxing for me to buy a domestic, not with the budget I have. I dont have the time/money to go through the guessing games I went through with my parents old domestics, when the car wouldnt start, or the battery kept dying.
Also, I understand that the truck segment the same game as the car production industry, but what gives me reason to believe that the big three cant produce good cars, but can produce superior trucks? My friends 90 bronco couldnt tow a 3000 lb trailer to save its soul, but my 86 nissan with 2 less litres of displacement and 60k more miles outdid it. In initial performance, it is a logical statement to say that a chevy could outtow a toy, but what good is that to me? Tell me in 8 years that it still will hold up, when I can afford one.
I also understand that all the evidence I have is only substantiated with my own experience, I would very much like to have some honest statistics brought to my attention to further my knowledge on subjects like these, but unfortunately, I havent seen any unbiased information out there. If you happen to see some, feel free to send it my way.
I have the ability to admit when I am wrong, and I would obviously prefer to spend money that goes back into the hands of my fellow american workers, but not when I am getting hosed by a company that doesnt make quality products.
And for all you nit pickers out there who are picking out two words at a time for criticism, look for my general ideas, this isnt a law suit we are arguing over here. Also, I didnt get any response from my more substantiated remarks about chevys longevity claims, does this mean that I am right?
Thanks for the responses, good or bad, it made for an interesting read if nothing else.. keep em coming.
R
I think you are wrong about the GM longevity claims...If I remember correctly, they were percentages of vehicles still on the road. It was JD Power that were the reporting firm for GM's claim. I'll look and see if they still have that stuff up.
However, GM is not as bad as the Tundra camp wants to believe, because it is a solid #2 year after year. That is a fact. If GM was so bad, then Ford would be the Microsoft (market share, not market tactics) of the truck market and everyone else would get the scraps. And Tundra is not as bad as the sales numbers indicate. There is the full-size truck "total available market" or TAM and then there is Tundra's "served available market" or SAM. Tundra just doesn't offer the complete line of "full-size" trucks. So Tundra sales aren't low just because of price, or small back seat or "only 7/8ths size" or "looks like a Ford copy". On the other hand, the Tundra "quality/reliability" is not a dominate factor overall, because if it was, then Toyota would be adding truck production capacity like mad.
I know this won't change the discussion, but there is very little info being conveyed here that can actually help someone else.
Tundra front-back legroom: 41.5/29.6 in
Ford " ": 40.9/32.2 in
Silverado " ": 41.3/33.7 in
If any man thinks that a few inches is a big deal....please, tell us about it!
Seriously though, it's about 2.5 inches more in the Ford and 4 inches in the Chevy. That can be the difference between me being able to ride back there or it being restricted to kids and/or trolls.
in post #521 you said:
"BTW, I gave the Silverado a hard second look At the Sears point raceway. The back seat definetely isn't roomier than the Tundra, but it has a better a better angle."
this statement would lead me to believe that you think the silverado seat is NOT larger than the tundra. said a different way...the silverado seat is smaller than a tundra. then, in #526 you say:
"I've never posted nor have I seen a post claiming
the Tundra back seat was bigger than the new
Silverado."
i'm NOT trying to twist your words rob...read it yourself...
kyle
question. this comes from back when you were using the nhtsa board to bash the silverado and you found an abs problem that, according the nhtsa
board, only lasted one month and 10,674 units. my
reasoning on THIS example was that gm did an
excellent job of identifying and correcting the
problem in apparently only one month, as no other
recalls are currently available.
when confronted with the fact that toyota took six
months and 16,000+ units to identify and correct
an improperly manufactured brake light assembly,
you never justified why somebody with a reliability rating like toyota would take that long to fix a problem. would you like to answer now? or simply dodge with the old excuse: failing brakes are a lot worse than failing brake lights.
we all know that rob. why is it that toyota
allowed probably 10% of their vehicles to come out
with such a problem if they're so reliable? and gm (monster that it is) had only maybe 1% (i don't
have annual manufacturing numbers handy) come out
before they fixed it?
now...without personally bashing anyone...or deliberately dodging the issue by seeking out some half-cocked, tragic silverado mishap...can you answer that question by only discussing toyota?
thanks...and have the best evening that you can...knowing your airbags may or may not properly
deploy in a collision...
kyle
Are your ford sales figures only F150 & F250 light duty or does this include the super duty line?
Your question on the Tundra brake light socket: The socket for the brake light had the potential to let the light bulb become loose. Why didn't they find it earlier? 1. 99.7% of the Tundra lights never became loose, so it took longer to discover. 2.It wasn't the cause of an accident(it had the potential).
Unfortunately, for some Silverado owners, the ABS brake defect became the cause of several accidents and the courts will have the final word on their compensation. personally, I think it may have been the drivers at fault in some of the cases because they relied on ABS to compensate for they aggressive or reckless driving.
See ya in my rearview mirror!
Zep 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
dogster,
Don't buy you ABS story and of course you'd rather have the tail light bad over ABS - that was not the point. Truckrme will answer your Tacoma parts in Tundra's as only he can...
oh, and thanks for proving my point. you lack the ability to boost toyota without bashing the silverado. somehow i'm not surprised.
as for this oh-so-senseless-drivel:
"Unfortunately, for some Silverado owners, the ABS
brake defect became the cause of several accidents
and the courts will have the final word on their
compensation. personally, I think it may have been
the drivers at fault in some of the cases because
they relied on ABS to compensate for they
aggressive or reckless driving." - save it for montel. until you have something FACTUAL don't bother...
kyle
as for that sentimental "best friend" story - hang on...i'm brushing the tear from the corner of my eye - nobody cares. can't you guys quote something factual?
kyle
and the courts will have the final word on their
compensation. personally, I think it may have been
the drivers at fault in some of the cases because
they relied on the drum brakes in their Tundra to compensate for their aggressive or reckless driving.
THERE WE GO FELLAS...BECAUSE I TYPED IT, AND YOU READ IT...IT'S FACT!
love ya, mean it...
kyle
ps...quad - thanks, we aim to please ya know...
settle down before you blow a blood vessel or worse. YOU: 1.asked a question, 2.demanded an answer, 3.got upset because it wasn't something you wanted to hear.
BTW, you still haven't answered my question about the spotty silverado build quality. I gave you a specific example: the spot welds on the bed lip are unevenly spaced laterally and vertically. The welds themself also vary in bond. Also the door hinge to frame is held on by a couple of wimpy spot welds and some RTV. At least the fords have big bolts like the Tundra. How about them fenderwells(or lack of). Instead of making a solid fenderwell, chevy executives saw a way to save some money and instead used little rods to hold the sides from flexing. Must be fun trying to hose off all the mud and dirt from the underside of your truck. Werking will say these are all lies. I urge everyone to look at these items for themselves and post what you find.
click on "resources" then "clubs" then "Lake chelan flyers"
hang on...i'll be right back...i'm going to check these "build quality" issues you've brought up. hold your breath...i'll be right back...
kyle
kyle
I played a lot of yuppy music on the CD and never once felt bad about buying a yuppy truck with yuppy cash. Don't let sucks4free and the wantabes bother you. The Tundra is a great truck but take a look at the other trucks before you make you mind up. Buy the one that you like the best. Happy truckin.
it is good to see tundra owners finally comparing their vehicles to others of the same class though. "The recall was on 89-96 Blazers, S10 and GMC Jimmy and Sonomas with 4WD." S-10's and Sonoma's...just where the tundra belongs.
as for the tail-light bulb falling out, i agree, not a big deal, unless it's in the 4-runner in front of you. and you don't realize he just stopped. and you rear-end him and the air bags in your tundra fail to deploy. kinda makes that tail light a little more important now doesn't it? yep...that happened bub. what do you and your "friend" think about that?
since you'll whine and cry about what i'm talking about...check out my next post to see what i'm talking about.
kyle
ODI ID: 860256
Make: TOYOTA TRUCK
Model: TUNDRA
Year: 2000
Date of Failure: Sunday, April 09, 2000
Incident: Yes
Fire: No
Number of Injuries: 1
Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSENGER
RESTRAINTS:AIR BAG:FRONTAL
that information alone tells me that it was a 2000 tundra with an airbag failure. wish the whole summary was available. i haven't figured out how to get the whole summary yet...
kyle
www.tundrasolutions.com
my friend. that's how OWNERS feel. oh, but tundras are sooooo well put together. keep up your bs-ing here, and i just may have to start posting copies of the oh-so-satisfied folks over there. no truck is perfect. look fellas, no truck is perfect, i can accept that. the deal here is that this tundra is not a full size truck. nor has it proved any kind of reliability...nor will it...for ten more years. i would trust consumer reports if i was buying a washer, a cd player, or maybe a computer...but not a truck. they're opinions of trucks are worthless.
kyle
'00 tundra. not: "Lots more NHTSA recalls also." as you state. as for complaints, like i said earlier...check out that tundra solutions website.
about the only thing that isn't there is the
title...solutions. rotflmfao!!!
kyle
Sales figures say that Silverado outsell Tundra by about the same margin that you have posted above so naturally there are going to be more complaints...duh...and I'm sure that all Tundra airbags are in good working order. Just cause one failed doesn't mean they all will right? So why don't you apply this logic to your post instead of comming off as though all Silverado's will fail? I await in anticipation of your answer. You know I can admit the Toyota makes a decent truck, but some of you Tundra owners cannot admit the Silverado is a decent truck - so who's got there head in the sand??? hmmm???