all your guys comments about reliability and longevity are bologne. All have made lemons and how can you tell your not going to get one.
Toyota loyalist?? Why would you want to be any kind of loyalist?? Do you own the company or something?? I'm not a anything loyalist - I drive what I think is the best product out there. It just so happens that the Silverado is the best out there right now. If Toyota made a better truck than the Silverado I WOULD BUY ONE, but they don't. That comment really disturbs me - it's going to burn you if your not careful.
Primitive drivetrain - Any all the Tacoma parts make the Tundra drivetrain sophisticated? Get real.
I will admit it's probably more nimble and handles better (being smaller). However, just cause Billy Bob or Joe Bob down the street had a bad experience with a Chevy does not mean there all junk. I could spout off about bad Toyota's, but to this day have not. I refuse to drop to some of your guys level. And I'm sorry, but your "friend" must have a smaller than normal garage. Mine fits fine and I have bigger tires that make it sit about 1-2 inches higher - length is fine. Again, your friends or buddies opinions don't hold any weight here - how come you people don't get that???
i agree with you whole-heartedly. i'm willing to buy the best product out there myself. careful when you say things like, "Primitive drivetrain - Any all the Tacoma parts make the Tundra drivetrain sophisticated? Get real." cuz you know he'll just come back and say, "well gee, like i said, i'm no truck expert...duh..."
I'M too rude? c'mon rob...had that guy been a gm fan you would've tried to blast him into next week yourself. anyone who talks out his butt (claims to know nothing about trucks and then proceeds to bash some and praise others) and then contradicts himself to boot - deserves the ole drop kick.
all i got to say is this...don't tell me you don't know anything and then give me your opinion - you're just wasting your time. duh...
still don't care to answer that tough question, eh rob? always gotta duck out and talk about something else...typical.
Them tundra got that pumpkin from that tacoma, that transfer case from that tacoma, and that trannie be from them t100 ones. They also be sharin all sorts of doo-dads like door-handles and such. Is this that "sophisticated" drivetrain them "experts" in this here forum be tellin on? This could be explainin why them nissans be whippin up on them trundras in sales now. Good luck on this one now!
thanks 2 rwellbaum, I certainly appreciated the unbiased response from werking, thanks 2 you two.
Like I said before, I am not a truck expert, but "it has been my experience" that toyota and honda products have been far superior to domestics including the small amount of experience I have had with trucks. My only complaint is that they have been somewhat underpowered, and perhaps underbuilt for some truck uses which would warrant the purchase of a silverado or a ford (god forbid).
My experience with foreign vs. domestic? My parents had a 91 camry.. 300k one engine.. My 90 celica, 160k still strong, had a 91 crx that was at 150 till it was totalled. This in comparison to some pretty subpar performances by a buick station wagon, an olds station wagon, a geo metro, and countless other cars that my parents bought in the past that took a !@#$.
Now, I totally agree that every car company has lemons, but when you hear complaints about american car companies and their poor build quality, does it really give you a warm fuzzy going to a dealer and buying a car that was built like !@#$?
Just rifle through a copy of consumer reports reliability reports, and I guarantee you that you will see tons of black in domestic areas, and a considerable amount of red in foreign markets. Or, if you are too lazy, check out the reliability ratings on some common foreign/domestic autos on this website, I think you will see the same trend as I have. I personally get the feeling that american car companies are just out to make a profit, and not a good car.
Now.. sorry to have strayed, but I think we are all straying from the topic some anyways.. i have a few responses to make from my "buddys".
looking at a honda.. ??? when did I ever say that?
Secondly.. allow me to rephrase my "toyota loyalist" statement to say oh.. "import enthusiast", as you may have guessed, it will take a lot of coaxing for me to buy a domestic, not with the budget I have. I dont have the time/money to go through the guessing games I went through with my parents old domestics, when the car wouldnt start, or the battery kept dying.
Also, I understand that the truck segment the same game as the car production industry, but what gives me reason to believe that the big three cant produce good cars, but can produce superior trucks? My friends 90 bronco couldnt tow a 3000 lb trailer to save its soul, but my 86 nissan with 2 less litres of displacement and 60k more miles outdid it. In initial performance, it is a logical statement to say that a chevy could outtow a toy, but what good is that to me? Tell me in 8 years that it still will hold up, when I can afford one.
I also understand that all the evidence I have is only substantiated with my own experience, I would very much like to have some honest statistics brought to my attention to further my knowledge on subjects like these, but unfortunately, I havent seen any unbiased information out there. If you happen to see some, feel free to send it my way.
I have the ability to admit when I am wrong, and I would obviously prefer to spend money that goes back into the hands of my fellow american workers, but not when I am getting hosed by a company that doesnt make quality products.
And for all you nit pickers out there who are picking out two words at a time for criticism, look for my general ideas, this isnt a law suit we are arguing over here. Also, I didnt get any response from my more substantiated remarks about chevys longevity claims, does this mean that I am right?
Thanks for the responses, good or bad, it made for an interesting read if nothing else.. keep em coming.
is a Toyota made in cooperation with Chevrolet making it, if you call it by its real name, a Toylet. Yeah those cars were great, 3 cylinder engines and just enough power to outrun an old lady in a walker.
The only people on this topic are Chevy and Toyota owners and they are bickering with each other about how their Chevy is better than the others Toyota and vise versa and it turns out that the two companies share technology.
I thought the Metro was a Suzuki. I think the Chevy Prizim is the Toyota. The irony part is right on. There was somebody that posted somewhere on Edmunds that GM was above this kind of stuff. They've been doing it for years starting with the Chevy/Isuzu LUV from the '70's. Maybe longer????
I think you are wrong about the GM longevity claims...If I remember correctly, they were percentages of vehicles still on the road. It was JD Power that were the reporting firm for GM's claim. I'll look and see if they still have that stuff up.
What is this burning question you need answered? With all the posts being deleted I refuse to dig back through all your old posts to find it. BTW, I gave the Silverado a hard second look At the Sears point raceway. The back seat definetely isn't roomier than the Tundra, but it has a better a better angle. The fit and fininsh is still subpar, but the engine was real quiet. The truck we used made a big "clank" going over the speedbumps. It sounded like the rear suspension (shackle maybe?). Any ideas?
With all the talk, no one here is going to convince anyone else that they are right. Each wants his(her?) brand to be the best. There are many sports in this world, each with it's own rules and "criteria for success". A world class wrestler is not likely to also be a world class soccer player. When it comes to trucks, we each have our own rules and "criteria for success". I don't know yours and you don't know mine. But when we all get combined together, in full-size trucks, Ford is #1 in sales and Tundra is last. Those are the real facts today.
However, GM is not as bad as the Tundra camp wants to believe, because it is a solid #2 year after year. That is a fact. If GM was so bad, then Ford would be the Microsoft (market share, not market tactics) of the truck market and everyone else would get the scraps. And Tundra is not as bad as the sales numbers indicate. There is the full-size truck "total available market" or TAM and then there is Tundra's "served available market" or SAM. Tundra just doesn't offer the complete line of "full-size" trucks. So Tundra sales aren't low just because of price, or small back seat or "only 7/8ths size" or "looks like a Ford copy". On the other hand, the Tundra "quality/reliability" is not a dominate factor overall, because if it was, then Toyota would be adding truck production capacity like mad.
I know this won't change the discussion, but there is very little info being conveyed here that can actually help someone else.
unless like Kyle said. The cab is just much bigger (as Kyle would say)..duh. I think the Toyota makes a good truck, but for the money it just doesn't match up with a Silverado, F-150, or the Ram. I also agree with rdve80 - as I've said before, there all good trucks. We probably won't change each others minds, but it is interesting to see which people are flexible in their opinions, and which stand their ground no matter how many FACTS you prove to them...
First off...I don't smoke, so enough with your personal attacks, please! Take that stuff up with dbhull AKA BLD. Secondly, don't get mad and have a fit about some question you asked but don't want to repeat. I'd be happy to answer it if you would simply tell me what it was or even gave a topic and post number. If you forgot what it was, just say so, it's not a crime to forget something said many posts ago...especially with the many Tundra topics. Thirdly, try to have a nice day, even in your chevy.
I've never posted nor have I seen a post claiming the Tundra back seat was bigger than the new Silverado. I simply stated that the bench angle of the siverado was better, but I didn't notice any significant differance in overall room. The numbers speak for themselves:
Tundra front-back legroom: 41.5/29.6 in Ford " ": 40.9/32.2 in Silverado " ": 41.3/33.7 in
If any man thinks that a few inches is a big deal....please, tell us about it!
What about if any woman wanted to say that a few inches was a big deal????
Seriously though, it's about 2.5 inches more in the Ford and 4 inches in the Chevy. That can be the difference between me being able to ride back there or it being restricted to kids and/or trolls.
"BTW, I gave the Silverado a hard second look At the Sears point raceway. The back seat definetely isn't roomier than the Tundra, but it has a better a better angle."
this statement would lead me to believe that you think the silverado seat is NOT larger than the tundra. said a different way...the silverado seat is smaller than a tundra. then, in #526 you say:
"I've never posted nor have I seen a post claiming the Tundra back seat was bigger than the new Silverado."
i'm NOT trying to twist your words rob...read it yourself...
oh and rob, for the seventh time...here's my question. this comes from back when you were using the nhtsa board to bash the silverado and you found an abs problem that, according the nhtsa board, only lasted one month and 10,674 units. my reasoning on THIS example was that gm did an excellent job of identifying and correcting the problem in apparently only one month, as no other recalls are currently available.
when confronted with the fact that toyota took six months and 16,000+ units to identify and correct an improperly manufactured brake light assembly, you never justified why somebody with a reliability rating like toyota would take that long to fix a problem. would you like to answer now? or simply dodge with the old excuse: failing brakes are a lot worse than failing brake lights.
we all know that rob. why is it that toyota allowed probably 10% of their vehicles to come out with such a problem if they're so reliable? and gm (monster that it is) had only maybe 1% (i don't have annual manufacturing numbers handy) come out before they fixed it?
now...without personally bashing anyone...or deliberately dodging the issue by seeking out some half-cocked, tragic silverado mishap...can you answer that question by only discussing toyota?
thanks...and have the best evening that you can...knowing your airbags may or may not properly deploy in a collision...
Still don't know why your trying to mince words and twist what I said. I stated the rear seat didn't feel any roomier than the Tundra. I simply stated I like the silverado bench angle better but the back seat did not feel any roomier. I have no problem with the Tundra back seat, but I'm only 5'11" 165lbs. I understand from trucksforme that all chevy owners are 6'7" and 285 lbs (all muscle of course).
Your question on the Tundra brake light socket: The socket for the brake light had the potential to let the light bulb become loose. Why didn't they find it earlier? 1. 99.7% of the Tundra lights never became loose, so it took longer to discover. 2.It wasn't the cause of an accident(it had the potential). Unfortunately, for some Silverado owners, the ABS brake defect became the cause of several accidents and the courts will have the final word on their compensation. personally, I think it may have been the drivers at fault in some of the cases because they relied on ABS to compensate for they aggressive or reckless driving.
Zep 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Can you provide evidence of the accidents or court cases to back up your statement?? Since the problem only affected about 10,000 trucks and within a single month, how could there have been any accidents in that time span since transportation from the factory to the dealer takes almost that long?? Plus the time required for buyers to purchase the vehicles and then drive them and then have accidents. If you have real facts, then post them, if not keep your crap to yourself.
GM has a campaign for a lot more than 10,000 trucks on the ABS. They've had a problem with the ABS for YEARS now. My best friend is a GM/Chevy brake/front end mechanic and he's been dealing with the problem a long time. If I had a choice of a possibly malfunctioning brake light or no brakes/intermittent brake problems I would choose the taillight every time. Wouldn't you? The "Tacoma story" parts story proves how much some people know since most Tacoma parts wouldn't even fit a Tundra. Of course this comes from a person who's truck experience is with a '52 Chevy.
Kyle has a point - it sounded like you said the Tundra had just as big of a back seat. A couple inches was important to me or else I would have considered the Tundra. My kids ride in the back seat a lot and 3-4 inches extra is nice.
dogster, Don't buy you ABS story and of course you'd rather have the tail light bad over ABS - that was not the point. Truckrme will answer your Tacoma parts in Tundra's as only he can...
It was stated in one of them magazines ya folks love quotin now. The one that named that tundra "4 Wheeler of the year" one. It was statin that pumpkin and transfercase came right out of that tacoma, and that trannie came from them t100 ones. So, askin cliffy1 who be sellin em, it was confirmed. If ya need any further proof on it, I suggest ya use ya eyes on in, and eyeball em up next too the other. Facts is facts, dont be wheepin at me if ya not be liken em now. Good luck on this one now!
like i said, i was not trying to twist your words, rob, YOU wrote them. i just stated what more than one other person felt...
oh, and thanks for proving my point. you lack the ability to boost toyota without bashing the silverado. somehow i'm not surprised.
as for this oh-so-senseless-drivel: "Unfortunately, for some Silverado owners, the ABS brake defect became the cause of several accidents and the courts will have the final word on their compensation. personally, I think it may have been the drivers at fault in some of the cases because they relied on ABS to compensate for they aggressive or reckless driving." - save it for montel. until you have something FACTUAL don't bother...
go back a read through some of these posts bud. as i said earlier - can you guys read??? - the issue was not failing brakes vs. a malfunctioning brake LIGHT. it was the time and percentage of production units.
as for that sentimental "best friend" story - hang on...i'm brushing the tear from the corner of my eye - nobody cares. can't you guys quote something factual?
Unfortunately, for some Tundra owners, the airbag defect became the cause of several fatalities and the courts will have the final word on their compensation. personally, I think it may have been the drivers at fault in some of the cases because they relied on the drum brakes in their Tundra to compensate for their aggressive or reckless driving.
THERE WE GO FELLAS...BECAUSE I TYPED IT, AND YOU READ IT...IT'S FACT!
Chevy lot and stopped by to ask what they were doing there. Well, I hate to stoop to your guys level, but the salesman said they were unhappy with their Tundra's and traded for Silverado's. So, that must mean the Tundra sucks right? No, just 2 people prefered the Silverado and didn't know what they wanted. I could go on and on about other personal stories, but like we keep saying - this and other "personal" stories really don't matter - let's try to stick to some reasonable facts. Magazines are only a shade better than stories and sometimes worse. What does Toyota have in store in the next couple years for the Tundra? Hopefully it'll grow a little and offer more configurations to compete better with the F-150, Silverado, Ram...
Kyle, settle down before you blow a blood vessel or worse. YOU: 1.asked a question, 2.demanded an answer, 3.got upset because it wasn't something you wanted to hear. BTW, you still haven't answered my question about the spotty silverado build quality. I gave you a specific example: the spot welds on the bed lip are unevenly spaced laterally and vertically. The welds themself also vary in bond. Also the door hinge to frame is held on by a couple of wimpy spot welds and some RTV. At least the fords have big bolts like the Tundra. How about them fenderwells(or lack of). Instead of making a solid fenderwell, chevy executives saw a way to save some money and instead used little rods to hold the sides from flexing. Must be fun trying to hose off all the mud and dirt from the underside of your truck. Werking will say these are all lies. I urge everyone to look at these items for themselves and post what you find.
So you consider werking to be your best chevy spokesperson? I'd say he's tenacious, even when fighting his losing battle, but your posts are probably of better quality and wit.
I'm leaving for the chelan hang gliding meet tommorow. Please hold any posts directed at me until 13Jul. Anyone interested in this event can get more info at www.cloudbase.org
click on "resources" then "clubs" then "Lake chelan flyers"
sorry this isn't being "held" for you...you'll have to dig through all the old posts when you get back. as for the blood vessel, i just may burst it laughing at you...
hang on...i'll be right back...i'm going to check these "build quality" issues you've brought up. hold your breath...i'll be right back...
exhale bubba. i'm pretty much done with you. clearly you've forgotten the air bag issue. like swo says, you're not going to change my mind, and i'm done wasting my time trying to point out your flawed logic (by the way, i've never tried to change your mind) i'm willing to chat with anyone else who's willing to talk fact and not what "they're best friend" or some hang-glider who drives an '89 honda prelude that has 110 million miles...
Just got back from a 340 mile road trip in my new Tundra V8 2wd. Really nice ride. I was running 70-80 and got 16.8 MPG with the AC on all the way. I played a lot of yuppy music on the CD and never once felt bad about buying a yuppy truck with yuppy cash. Don't let sucks4free and the wantabes bother you. The Tundra is a great truck but take a look at the other trucks before you make you mind up. Buy the one that you like the best. Happy truckin.
First of all my "best friend story" is a friend of mine for 35 years that's been a GM mechanic for 23 years that I built Chevelles and many Camaros for bracket racing (I finally got tired of fixing the same problems over and over and switched from GM). So I believe him when he says GM has had problems for years with ABS. Now, here's the FACTS ON GM ABS. The recall was on 89-96 Blazers, S10 and GMC Jimmy and Sonomas with 4WD. "In 2 wheel drive mode, antilock brake system may not perform as expected, resulting in increased stopping distances." This recall was for "1.1 MILLION trucks and SUVs with EBC4 antilock brakes, manufactured from 9/89-8/96. At the time of the recall GM had not announced the specific remedy." Sorry Kyle and TruckRMe. Hope you don't own one Kyle. Those ARE THE FACTS. Kind of minor to a taillight bulb falling out or a door needing a slight adjustment, don't you think? Good luck on this one now!
fyi...the '00 silverado (only vehicle i'm concerned about, since i don't own the others you mentioned) only had 10,674 units recalled. those manufactured in aug 99. mine was made in jan '00. i'm perfectly happy with it.
it is good to see tundra owners finally comparing their vehicles to others of the same class though. "The recall was on 89-96 Blazers, S10 and GMC Jimmy and Sonomas with 4WD." S-10's and Sonoma's...just where the tundra belongs.
as for the tail-light bulb falling out, i agree, not a big deal, unless it's in the 4-runner in front of you. and you don't realize he just stopped. and you rear-end him and the air bags in your tundra fail to deploy. kinda makes that tail light a little more important now doesn't it? yep...that happened bub. what do you and your "friend" think about that?
since you'll whine and cry about what i'm talking about...check out my next post to see what i'm talking about.
your smart to give up on robbie - there doesn't seem to be any hope. Some people are so set in their ways. It's funny they can't admit a problem, but go out of their way to show the problems the Silverado has. It has problems, but so does the Tundra. Can you admit that rob? Anyway, happy trucking...
yes, it IS a somewhat confusing read. but if you look at the top portion of the message it says:
ODI ID: 860256 Make: TOYOTA TRUCK Model: TUNDRA Year: 2000 Date of Failure: Sunday, April 09, 2000 Incident: Yes Fire: No Number of Injuries: 1 Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSENGER RESTRAINTS:AIR BAG:FRONTAL
that information alone tells me that it was a 2000 tundra with an airbag failure. wish the whole summary was available. i haven't figured out how to get the whole summary yet...
Congratulations Kyle. You found one Tundra with an airbag failure vs. 1.1 million GM/Chevy trucks. Also, check those Consumer Complaints on the Silverado - 77 of 'em. Tundra only had 6. Silverado complaints covered just about everything on the vehicle including the air bags, multiple bad motors, transmissions, steering etc. Lots more NHTSA recalls also. If a potential buyer looks at the NHTSA complaints on Toyota and compares them with Chevy, Ford or Dodge, they'll buy a Toyota for sure. The number and type of Big 3 complaints are kind of scary aren't they? Seems like you and your other Big3 owners are the ones doing all the whining. Consumer Reports sends surveys to OWNERS of vehicles, including Toyota and Chevrolet. Maybe that's why in the June 2000 issue of they said on the Suburban, "We have no reliability data from readers for this new model. The Silverado pickup, on which the Suburban is based, had poor reliability." And that's reports from SILVERADO owners. Pull your head out of the sand Kyle. Admit it now, or admit it later when you're Silverado is getting towed back to the dealership.
i would love to see your source for this info. you sure you're not rwellbaum in disguise from his hanggliding trip? awfully similar now. you want to see some good info on how OWNERS feel about there vehicles, go check out
my friend. that's how OWNERS feel. oh, but tundras are sooooo well put together. keep up your bs-ing here, and i just may have to start posting copies of the oh-so-satisfied folks over there. no truck is perfect. look fellas, no truck is perfect, i can accept that. the deal here is that this tundra is not a full size truck. nor has it proved any kind of reliability...nor will it...for ten more years. i would trust consumer reports if i was buying a washer, a cd player, or maybe a computer...but not a truck. they're opinions of trucks are worthless.
dogster...one recall for '00 silverado...one for '00 tundra. not: "Lots more NHTSA recalls also." as you state. as for complaints, like i said earlier...check out that tundra solutions website.
about the only thing that isn't there is the title...solutions. rotflmfao!!!
dogster, Sales figures say that Silverado outsell Tundra by about the same margin that you have posted above so naturally there are going to be more complaints...duh...and I'm sure that all Tundra airbags are in good working order. Just cause one failed doesn't mean they all will right? So why don't you apply this logic to your post instead of comming off as though all Silverado's will fail? I await in anticipation of your answer. You know I can admit the Toyota makes a decent truck, but some of you Tundra owners cannot admit the Silverado is a decent truck - so who's got there head in the sand??? hmmm???
is closed (or frozen) for lack of relavent content. Hmmm...interesting eh? I'm sure it's us non-Tundra owners ruining it, right? Won't be long and they'll be no Tundra topics...
You sure the sales figures on Silverados are 9 times the Tundra? That means Chevrolet sold 900,000 Silverados alone, much less the other trucks. I don't think so. The NHTSA complaints I cited are for SILVERADOS ONLY. That doesn't include all the other Chevy/GM trucks. I don't have that kind of time to check on them. Don't get me wrong. I've owned 12 Chevys in the past and loved them but they have too many problems which Chevy repeats model year after model year. If they were as reliable and squeak/rattle free as they looked I would buy one, or even an F150 which was a close second to the Tundra when I looked at and test drove new trucks. As far as trusting Consumer Reports, the statistics are gathered from owners so the poor reliability reports come from owner reports. The reliabilty reports are verified by my past experience as a wholesale buyer on all makes, not just Toyota and Chevrolet. Plus, my oldest friend, who is a Chevy/GM mechanic confirms the reliability reports. He was always frustrated by GM ABS problems because they got tons of complaints but there was no fix from GM. Even the other guys at the GM dealer where he worked say that re: reliability, as I stop by for a beer after work with them now and then.
Comments
Toyota loyalist?? Why would you want to be any kind of loyalist?? Do you own the company or something?? I'm not a anything loyalist - I drive what I think is the best product out there. It just so happens that the Silverado is the best out there right now. If Toyota made a better truck than the Silverado I WOULD BUY ONE, but they don't. That comment really disturbs me - it's going to burn you if your not careful.
Primitive drivetrain - Any all the Tacoma parts make the Tundra drivetrain sophisticated? Get real.
I will admit it's probably more nimble and handles better (being smaller). However, just cause Billy Bob or Joe Bob down the street had a bad experience with a Chevy does not mean there all junk. I could spout off about bad Toyota's, but to this day have not. I refuse to drop to some of your guys level. And I'm sorry, but your "friend" must have a smaller than normal garage. Mine fits fine and I have bigger tires that make it sit about 1-2 inches higher - length is fine. Again, your friends or buddies opinions don't hold any weight here - how come you people don't get that???
Wow - lots of post getting wacked, somebody must have a potty mouth...
kyle
all i got to say is this...don't tell me you don't know anything and then give me your opinion - you're just wasting your time. duh...
still don't care to answer that tough question, eh rob? always gotta duck out and talk about something else...typical.
kyle
Like I said before, I am not a truck expert, but "it has been my experience" that toyota and honda products have been far superior to domestics including the small amount of experience I have had with trucks. My only complaint is that they have been somewhat underpowered, and perhaps underbuilt for some truck uses which would warrant the purchase of a silverado or a ford (god forbid).
My experience with foreign vs. domestic? My parents had a 91 camry.. 300k one engine.. My 90 celica, 160k still strong, had a 91 crx that was at 150 till it was totalled. This in comparison to some pretty subpar performances by a buick station wagon, an olds station wagon, a geo metro, and countless other cars that my parents bought in the past that took a !@#$.
Now, I totally agree that every car company has lemons, but when you hear complaints about american car companies and their poor build quality, does it really give you a warm fuzzy going to a dealer and buying a car that was built like !@#$?
Just rifle through a copy of consumer reports reliability reports, and I guarantee you that you will see tons of black in domestic areas, and a considerable amount of red in foreign markets. Or, if you are too lazy, check out the reliability ratings on some common foreign/domestic autos on this website, I think you will see the same trend as I have. I personally get the feeling that american car companies are just out to make a profit, and not a good car.
Now.. sorry to have strayed, but I think we are all straying from the topic some anyways.. i have a few responses to make from my "buddys".
looking at a honda.. ??? when did I ever say that?
Secondly.. allow me to rephrase my "toyota loyalist" statement to say oh.. "import enthusiast", as you may have guessed, it will take a lot of coaxing for me to buy a domestic, not with the budget I have. I dont have the time/money to go through the guessing games I went through with my parents old domestics, when the car wouldnt start, or the battery kept dying.
Also, I understand that the truck segment the same game as the car production industry, but what gives me reason to believe that the big three cant produce good cars, but can produce superior trucks? My friends 90 bronco couldnt tow a 3000 lb trailer to save its soul, but my 86 nissan with 2 less litres of displacement and 60k more miles outdid it. In initial performance, it is a logical statement to say that a chevy could outtow a toy, but what good is that to me? Tell me in 8 years that it still will hold up, when I can afford one.
I also understand that all the evidence I have is only substantiated with my own experience, I would very much like to have some honest statistics brought to my attention to further my knowledge on subjects like these, but unfortunately, I havent seen any unbiased information out there. If you happen to see some, feel free to send it my way.
I have the ability to admit when I am wrong, and I would obviously prefer to spend money that goes back into the hands of my fellow american workers, but not when I am getting hosed by a company that doesnt make quality products.
And for all you nit pickers out there who are picking out two words at a time for criticism, look for my general ideas, this isnt a law suit we are arguing over here. Also, I didnt get any response from my more substantiated remarks about chevys longevity claims, does this mean that I am right?
Thanks for the responses, good or bad, it made for an interesting read if nothing else.. keep em coming.
R
I think you are wrong about the GM longevity claims...If I remember correctly, they were percentages of vehicles still on the road. It was JD Power that were the reporting firm for GM's claim. I'll look and see if they still have that stuff up.
However, GM is not as bad as the Tundra camp wants to believe, because it is a solid #2 year after year. That is a fact. If GM was so bad, then Ford would be the Microsoft (market share, not market tactics) of the truck market and everyone else would get the scraps. And Tundra is not as bad as the sales numbers indicate. There is the full-size truck "total available market" or TAM and then there is Tundra's "served available market" or SAM. Tundra just doesn't offer the complete line of "full-size" trucks. So Tundra sales aren't low just because of price, or small back seat or "only 7/8ths size" or "looks like a Ford copy". On the other hand, the Tundra "quality/reliability" is not a dominate factor overall, because if it was, then Toyota would be adding truck production capacity like mad.
I know this won't change the discussion, but there is very little info being conveyed here that can actually help someone else.
Tundra front-back legroom: 41.5/29.6 in
Ford " ": 40.9/32.2 in
Silverado " ": 41.3/33.7 in
If any man thinks that a few inches is a big deal....please, tell us about it!
Seriously though, it's about 2.5 inches more in the Ford and 4 inches in the Chevy. That can be the difference between me being able to ride back there or it being restricted to kids and/or trolls.
in post #521 you said:
"BTW, I gave the Silverado a hard second look At the Sears point raceway. The back seat definetely isn't roomier than the Tundra, but it has a better a better angle."
this statement would lead me to believe that you think the silverado seat is NOT larger than the tundra. said a different way...the silverado seat is smaller than a tundra. then, in #526 you say:
"I've never posted nor have I seen a post claiming
the Tundra back seat was bigger than the new
Silverado."
i'm NOT trying to twist your words rob...read it yourself...
kyle
question. this comes from back when you were using the nhtsa board to bash the silverado and you found an abs problem that, according the nhtsa
board, only lasted one month and 10,674 units. my
reasoning on THIS example was that gm did an
excellent job of identifying and correcting the
problem in apparently only one month, as no other
recalls are currently available.
when confronted with the fact that toyota took six
months and 16,000+ units to identify and correct
an improperly manufactured brake light assembly,
you never justified why somebody with a reliability rating like toyota would take that long to fix a problem. would you like to answer now? or simply dodge with the old excuse: failing brakes are a lot worse than failing brake lights.
we all know that rob. why is it that toyota
allowed probably 10% of their vehicles to come out
with such a problem if they're so reliable? and gm (monster that it is) had only maybe 1% (i don't
have annual manufacturing numbers handy) come out
before they fixed it?
now...without personally bashing anyone...or deliberately dodging the issue by seeking out some half-cocked, tragic silverado mishap...can you answer that question by only discussing toyota?
thanks...and have the best evening that you can...knowing your airbags may or may not properly
deploy in a collision...
kyle
Are your ford sales figures only F150 & F250 light duty or does this include the super duty line?
Your question on the Tundra brake light socket: The socket for the brake light had the potential to let the light bulb become loose. Why didn't they find it earlier? 1. 99.7% of the Tundra lights never became loose, so it took longer to discover. 2.It wasn't the cause of an accident(it had the potential).
Unfortunately, for some Silverado owners, the ABS brake defect became the cause of several accidents and the courts will have the final word on their compensation. personally, I think it may have been the drivers at fault in some of the cases because they relied on ABS to compensate for they aggressive or reckless driving.
See ya in my rearview mirror!
Zep 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
dogster,
Don't buy you ABS story and of course you'd rather have the tail light bad over ABS - that was not the point. Truckrme will answer your Tacoma parts in Tundra's as only he can...
oh, and thanks for proving my point. you lack the ability to boost toyota without bashing the silverado. somehow i'm not surprised.
as for this oh-so-senseless-drivel:
"Unfortunately, for some Silverado owners, the ABS
brake defect became the cause of several accidents
and the courts will have the final word on their
compensation. personally, I think it may have been
the drivers at fault in some of the cases because
they relied on ABS to compensate for they
aggressive or reckless driving." - save it for montel. until you have something FACTUAL don't bother...
kyle
as for that sentimental "best friend" story - hang on...i'm brushing the tear from the corner of my eye - nobody cares. can't you guys quote something factual?
kyle
and the courts will have the final word on their
compensation. personally, I think it may have been
the drivers at fault in some of the cases because
they relied on the drum brakes in their Tundra to compensate for their aggressive or reckless driving.
THERE WE GO FELLAS...BECAUSE I TYPED IT, AND YOU READ IT...IT'S FACT!
love ya, mean it...
kyle
ps...quad - thanks, we aim to please ya know...
settle down before you blow a blood vessel or worse. YOU: 1.asked a question, 2.demanded an answer, 3.got upset because it wasn't something you wanted to hear.
BTW, you still haven't answered my question about the spotty silverado build quality. I gave you a specific example: the spot welds on the bed lip are unevenly spaced laterally and vertically. The welds themself also vary in bond. Also the door hinge to frame is held on by a couple of wimpy spot welds and some RTV. At least the fords have big bolts like the Tundra. How about them fenderwells(or lack of). Instead of making a solid fenderwell, chevy executives saw a way to save some money and instead used little rods to hold the sides from flexing. Must be fun trying to hose off all the mud and dirt from the underside of your truck. Werking will say these are all lies. I urge everyone to look at these items for themselves and post what you find.
click on "resources" then "clubs" then "Lake chelan flyers"
hang on...i'll be right back...i'm going to check these "build quality" issues you've brought up. hold your breath...i'll be right back...
kyle
kyle
I played a lot of yuppy music on the CD and never once felt bad about buying a yuppy truck with yuppy cash. Don't let sucks4free and the wantabes bother you. The Tundra is a great truck but take a look at the other trucks before you make you mind up. Buy the one that you like the best. Happy truckin.
it is good to see tundra owners finally comparing their vehicles to others of the same class though. "The recall was on 89-96 Blazers, S10 and GMC Jimmy and Sonomas with 4WD." S-10's and Sonoma's...just where the tundra belongs.
as for the tail-light bulb falling out, i agree, not a big deal, unless it's in the 4-runner in front of you. and you don't realize he just stopped. and you rear-end him and the air bags in your tundra fail to deploy. kinda makes that tail light a little more important now doesn't it? yep...that happened bub. what do you and your "friend" think about that?
since you'll whine and cry about what i'm talking about...check out my next post to see what i'm talking about.
kyle
ODI ID: 860256
Make: TOYOTA TRUCK
Model: TUNDRA
Year: 2000
Date of Failure: Sunday, April 09, 2000
Incident: Yes
Fire: No
Number of Injuries: 1
Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:PASSENGER
RESTRAINTS:AIR BAG:FRONTAL
that information alone tells me that it was a 2000 tundra with an airbag failure. wish the whole summary was available. i haven't figured out how to get the whole summary yet...
kyle
www.tundrasolutions.com
my friend. that's how OWNERS feel. oh, but tundras are sooooo well put together. keep up your bs-ing here, and i just may have to start posting copies of the oh-so-satisfied folks over there. no truck is perfect. look fellas, no truck is perfect, i can accept that. the deal here is that this tundra is not a full size truck. nor has it proved any kind of reliability...nor will it...for ten more years. i would trust consumer reports if i was buying a washer, a cd player, or maybe a computer...but not a truck. they're opinions of trucks are worthless.
kyle
'00 tundra. not: "Lots more NHTSA recalls also." as you state. as for complaints, like i said earlier...check out that tundra solutions website.
about the only thing that isn't there is the
title...solutions. rotflmfao!!!
kyle
Sales figures say that Silverado outsell Tundra by about the same margin that you have posted above so naturally there are going to be more complaints...duh...and I'm sure that all Tundra airbags are in good working order. Just cause one failed doesn't mean they all will right? So why don't you apply this logic to your post instead of comming off as though all Silverado's will fail? I await in anticipation of your answer. You know I can admit the Toyota makes a decent truck, but some of you Tundra owners cannot admit the Silverado is a decent truck - so who's got there head in the sand??? hmmm???