It appears that your F150 got beat in just about every performance category by the Tundra. I'm sorry, but I think that Motor Trend is a more reliable source. No offense.
I got this from the May '00 issue of Motor Trend. They did a comparison of "full size" pickups. They rated the biggest, baddest Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 5.3 L V8 and the 4.1 gears(which by the way is only rated to tow 8000lbs).
They also rated the biggest F150 with the 5.4L V8 and the Dodge 1500 with 5.9L against the Tundra Access Cab V8.
You would think that this would be a mismatch. The Silverado does have that barcolounger rear seat. The Big3 engines are much bigger.
Here is the conclusion of the Motor Trend article:
"And the winner is... Which to Pick? In terms of overall performance and sophistication - on road and off - we have to say Tundra."
Oh! - I forgot Big3 posters in this topic don't believe anything that is in magazines. That is because the magazines all say that the Tundra is The best full size 1/2 ton pickup. You prefer to get your info from Billy Bob down the road a piece. (or hicksrme) LOL
Yep, them taurus, pintos, EXP, escorts, contours and windstars be classic car fodder for sure. Let's not forget those instant classic lincoln navigators. Nice try, tiny Tim. Yep...."TINY TIM". Thank your ex-wife for letting that cat out of the bag.
I don't have the proof to back this up, but I am still looking.
There is a TV show here in Canada on TSN (like ESPN) called Motoring 2000. One of the presenters in the show last weekend quoted a report (I think by Coopers & Lybrand) about the % of cars on the road after 10 years.
The winner was Cadillac (yes it had the highest % of cars still on the road), and the general point was that there was no justification for Japanese vehicles demanding higher resale because they didn't last any longer - I think they all came in around average.
The study was also carried out over a 5 year period to include the Japanese luxury brands and the figures were more or less identical, and even more revealing was that the luxury was no better than the standard - i.e. Acura and Honda were about equal, Infiniti and Nissan, Lexus and Toyota.
Cadillac's as the longest on the road?? This is probably because the avg. age of a Caddy owner is 80 and the car gets about 5,000 miles a year put on it. Have you guys ever OWNED and Toyota/Honda?? If you bought one and were honest about it, I think you would not go back to a Taurus.
I have owned, Japanese, French, Italian, German, Spanish and even Malaysian at one point. Now have American and British.
You may be right about Caddy - average miles probably are below the average for all cars, but that doesn't explain why the Japanese only come out in the middle of the pack.
I am still looking for the report - there wasn't a link from the show's website.
Just for the record, I too have owned imports. Won't again. The ones I had were less reliable than any domestic I have owned. I have had many domestic trucks with very good records. I also have had two Pontiac GrandAm's that have had outstanding records. First one was an 1988 with 4 banger non-the-less. It went 147k miles on the same engine, no problems, even the same clutch. No starters or batterys even. The only thing I ever had to change was a coil pack. Cost me $250 and about an hour of my time. I still own the second GrandAm, a 1996 with V6. Has 75k miles and again, absolutely nothing but oil changes, brake pads, and a set of plugs at 60k miles (only by my preference, the plugs were actually still good).
With the imports I had two Tacomas with blown head gaskets before 25k miles. I also had a Toyota camry that enjoyed chewing up starters and flywheels about every 10k miles.
Yes, I have had my fill of the import use a short time, then throw away vehicles. I have had domestics with minor problems, but nothing as major in such a short amount of time as I have had with imports. I don't whine and cry about it and say that they are all junk because of it either.
Andy: Your love of all things Dodge is admirable if not misplaced. While you may choose to ignore glaring quality deficits, I'd be remiss if I didn't forewarn innocent consumers:
2000 Dodge Truck. Defect: The welds at the right-side lower control arm bracket-to-axle tube attachment may have been inadequate fatigue life due to poor weld quality.
Consequences: This can lead to separation of the control arm bracket from the axle tube. If bracket separates, the vehicle could experience reduced directional stability, braking degradation and/or pulling to the side during braking. (NHTSA Rcall No. 00V007/Chrysler Recall No. 861)
Sorry bill, this isn't meant to be a slam against you personally. Just replying to the ignorant Tundra bashing:
2000 Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sonoma, GMC sierra.
DEFECT: Trucks equipped with 4-wheel disc brakes, the Antilock Brake System motor contains an out-of-specification spring clip.
CONSEQUENCES: This clip could allow the motor bearing to become misaligned. If misalignment occurs, eventually the ABS will become non-functional. The Dynamic Rear Proportioning System--which optimizes the front to rear brake balance--would become inoperative, increasing the likelyhood of a crash. (NHTSA Recall No. 00V055/GM Recall No. 00013).
The only American brand I mentioned was Cadillac - last time I checked they were made by GM. I didn't rate the rest of the big three because the item didn't mention their relative ratings, and I haven't got the report yet to quote facts from.
Without facts I won't make claims.....hmmmm, now there's a thought.
robbie - other people can do nhtsa searches too. funny how you failed to mention few somewhat important notes from the recall. at first, i was concerned because i have a '00 silverado with abs and thought i better check this out...so i did. first off, the recall states that only '00 silverados manufactured in aug '99 were affected (potentially 10,674 units).
additionally, you left out this little section which states, "the base brakes would remain fully functional, but..."
so, what robbies message should read is:
(NHTSA Recall No. 00V055/GM Recall No. 00013)
DEFECT: Light duty pickup trucks equipped with 4-wheel disc brakes. Some of these vehicles have an Antilock Brake System (ABS) motor containing an out-of-specification spring clip.
CONSEQUENCES: This clip could allow the motor bearing to become misaligned. If misalignment occurs, eventually the ABS would be non-functional. The base brakes would remain fully functional, but the Dynamic Rear Proportioning (DRP) system, which optimizes front to rear brake balance, would become inoperative.
still a good post regarding the quality of gm products. because it shows that after one month, they identified and corrected the problem. something toyota doesn't seem to be quite as adept at...see my next post for COMPLETE details...
Year: 2000 Make: TOYOTA TRUCK Model: TUNDRA Potential Number of Units Affected: 16472 Manufactured From: FEB 1999 To: JUL 1999 Year of Recall: '99
DEFECT: Sport utility vehicles. The tail light socket may have been improperly molded, resulting in the locking tab having insufficient force to retain the bulb.
CONSEQUENCE: If the bulb falls out of the socket, the brake or tail lamp function cannot occur.
hmmm...6 MONTHS and 16,472 units later they caught that? that's top notch quality assurance there, huh? pretty complicated moving part they got there too...a light bulb locking tab. but hey, toyota's number one in reliability!!! yeah right.
interesting side note...anyone else pick up what the NHTSA (Note: a NON-BIASED government agency - not a for-profit magazine) refers to the tundra as? that's right...a sport utility vehicle. and yet they refer to the silverado as a what? a light duty pick-up truck. i wonder how that can be? hmmm...
so what weak, personal-attack-centered, arguments you gonna come up with now? i noticed that redfox and bamatundra seem to have "disappeared into the dust". redfox? hello? seems you ran out of apples-to-oranges comparisons (i.e. camry is reliable therefore tundra will be too) pretty quick, yes? of course, i'm sure bamatundra will be back here quoting national geographic or something else before long. perhaps an article stating that tundra won the better homes and gardens' "Best Full-Size Truck in 2000"?
the nhtsa does consider tundra a pick up truck. that's how they categorize it anyways. didn't want you guys getting all up in a huff. the "SUV" comment must have been the "errant opinion of some webmaster" who thinks the tundra is more suv than work truck also. coincidence...i think not.
as mentioned..you have to consider the source here....these are Toy owners...they know nothing about facts...only know what the salesman and brochure tells them. I doubt any of them have ever even touched an engine in their lives.
Since the "non-biased" agency rated the Tundra a "SUV", which you GM mongrels are currently embracing with glee, it's comforting to know that the dainty little Silverado is rated a "Light-Duty Truck"....Hmmmm, I though they were "Professional Grade" trucks, for those 1%er's out there....so much for advertising aimed at the bottom half of the gene pool-maybe the topic should be renamed "The Light Big Three vs. Tundra"....you can perfume up a pig, but it's still a pig underneath the new sheet metal, new engine, and new marketing campaign...
Everyone bases there future decisions on past experiences and I'm glad you have had good experiences with domestics. Mine are flip-flopped- We grew up with olds, chryslers, etc. and we had nothing but problems. I then had an escort that blew the engine at 65,000 miles and that was the last of many problems it had. That was it for me...bought a '90 Honda Civic and never had one problem. We have two Hondas now and I highly recommend them. We agree to disagree and thats OK.
Its OK to slam a product, but just keep the facts straight - the 1% advertising campaign is GMC's for the Sierra. Chevrolet's campaign and slogan - has been for years is "Like a Rock".
I don't have anything to quote here, but I believe all 1/2 ton trucks are considered "light-duty", but that is in comparison only to HD - Heavy Duty trucks which usually includes 3/4 and 1 tons.
I think the point here would be that the Tundra was probably considered an SUV because it didn't measure up to even the "light duty" truck specs. Whatever those may be.
wonderful objective input there. you're sure showing "us mongrels" how well educated you can be by slinging some more of that tundra-fanatic mud around. got anything productive to add?
i gotta agree with gnipper here. 1/2 ton pick-ups ARE considered light duty. 3/4's (chevy 2500, ford f250, dodge ram 2500 (i think that's right), and toyota - oops, nevermind) and 1 tons (chevy 3500 dually, ford f350 dually, dodge ram 3500 dually, and again toyota???) are heavy duty trucks. i don't suppose we should expect someone like yourself to be able to comprehend such complexity.
They are all light duty pickups. Medium duty trucks are like you see local street depts./ contractors, etc. using (namely 450-750 series trucks-an F350 Super Duty is still a light duty truck). Heavy duty must be full blown Peterbilt size highway tractors.
Looks like dbhull gave himself away in post #386 talking about the Tacomas and Camrys that he has owned. dbhull = budlightdude, aka BLD, the banned one.
You believe a lightbulb possibly coming loose is worse than defective ABS? Typical chevy owner mentality....always good for a laugh! BTW, the recall affects Sierra, Sonama, S-10, etc. Why do you sound like a GM spokesman trying to implement damage control?
Too little too late my man. Like bigsnag stated, I disposed of my dirty laundry. I post as my real name indicates and without shame. I have repented to the one that counts and thats all that matters.
robbie - maybe you'd like to explain why you chose to omit two fairly important parts of that recall? or maybe not...because your intent was to manipulate factual data in order to deliberately deceive people. also, i don't believe i said a lightbulb coming loose is worse than defective abs. i said gm fixed their problem in one month. toyota took six months. that's very poor quality control on toyota's part. not the kind of stuff that wins you awards for reliability.
Why did you state that it only affects the sierra? Damage control? It wasn't fixed in a month! Where are you coming up with that from? This is the same ABS system that had the recall in 99'
So you've been divinely changed from BLD into dbhull? If it's not a chevy fanatic, it's a religious fanatic! Take head everyone and drive the same truck that jesus would!
robbie - good god man, where do you get this stuff? look, here's the ENTIRE recall message (there was ONLY one) for the 2000 Chevy Silverado:
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 00V055000
Component: BRAKES:HYDRAULIC:ANTI-SKID SYSTEM Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP. Mfg. Campaign #: 00013 Year: 2000 Make: CHEVROLET TRUCK Model: SILVERADO Potential Number of Units Affected: 10674 Manufactured From: AUG 1999 To: AUG 1999 Year of Recall: '00 Type of Report: Vehicle Summary:
Vehicle Description: Light duty pickup trucks equipped with 4-wheel disc brakes. Some of these vehicles have an Antilock Brake System (ABS) motor containing an out-of-specification spring clip. This clip could allow the motor bearing to become misaligned. If misalignment occurs, eventually the ABS would be non-functional.
The base brakes would remain fully functional, but the Dynamic Rear Proportioning (DRP) system, which optimizes front to rear brake balance, would become inoperative.
Dealers will replace the brake pressure module valve assembly...ok, blah blah blah...you get the idea. the rest is how to contact GM/NHTSA.
IT WAS FIXED IN A MONTH. if you read the recall notice, the NHTSA has only recalled the ones built in aug 99. not sure about you, but where i come from, august is a month. and it's only one month. now, since that's the only month of silverado manufacture that has been recalled, i gotta be thinking that GM FIXED the problem. OTHERWISE, the NHTSA wouldn't have limited the recall to ONE MONTH. lastly, i did a recall search for 1999 Chevrolet Silverado and it said NOTHING about a recall on the ABS.
now, i'm wondering if you care to respond to my question as to how or why the most reliable freaking truck in the world (supposively) can't even keep it's brake light bulbs seated? or perhaps why it took them SIX months to identify and correct that problem. i imagine not...
Who cares how long it takes them to find a problem. As long as they fix it and pay for it, what's the difference? I would rather the problem be something small like that though so it can go to the dealer, be fixed in 5 minutes, and be off, instead of needing a few hours or be there overnight!
I truely hope you have changed for the better. Would be nice to have a intelligent conversation with more people. Although I would ask that we keep geared towards trucks.
From what I hear the engines in these Toyota's are pretty expensive. All trucks break in time, I would think having one of the big 3 would be cheaper to repair/replace than a Toyota - many more built. Am I wrong? And I don't want to hear how the Toyota will never break down, etc., etc., etc., that's all just a bunch of bull...
Do you pedantic bandwagon jumpers think there's difference between any of the GM products? More puerile nonsense....I'm laughing here at work, because the brand new Suburban the boss bought just spun his second (yes, that means 2nd) rear end. Is this a new trend? Another good work friend, who saved every last dollar he had for 2 years to buy his dream car, a W6 Firehawk, just had his 3rd rear end replaced...good ole' GM quality coming through...maybe they should go back to using (Dana 60/70's)....I am not afraid to admit I am a GM product hater. As I've said before: GM stock is worthless They are the worst-managed car company (American) With the exception of the new 'vette, NONE of their products stand out, oh well, Cadillac had something going, but now they're reverting to rear-wheel drive cars again. I'm not a Toyota owner or afficionado-but: Totota's been making "full-size" trucks for how long? Maybe 10 years, if you count the T-100? GM been in business how long? Making trucks how long? Making utter crap how long? Even if the "new" post-1999 truck line proves to be a reliable improvement over the dung they've inflicted on the uneducated public for years (and it's WAY too early to see how good GM's stuff is) you morons that keep bashing Toyota's attempt at a full-size truck only reinforce my earlier statements about living at the shallow end of the gene pool. Better hope Toyota don't learn too fast....else 5 years from now you'll be trading in your GM product for a truck that looks better, hauls more, carries more, lasts longer, gets better gas mileage, and costs less....it won't take Toyota 75 years of truck-making to produce a superior product. 'Course, GM could buy Toyota.. (waiting for the ipsedistic response pattern to pick up again)
Do you need to be educated by your daddy, tucksforme? GM and chevy are the same truck with a different grill! Them chevy daytime running lights are on, but nobody's home.
And ya say all them great things of them forien ones. Guessin them blowin head-gaskets, and rustin up on them forien ones be slippin ya mind now. Funny how ya see them big3 ones, from years back, all the time now, yet them forien ones be used up and all gone. Why is this now? Could be they all blowed up and rusted way long ago. Facts is facts, twist em all ya want, then use your eyes for that truth on this one. Good luck on this one now!
A little too much splashing around in the gene pool for you.
Toyota's market capitalization is 4 times greater than GM's. That makes GM 4 times easier to take over than Toyota. Doesn't take genes from the deep end to see the error of your misspelling and ipsedixit statements, like "...(Toyota) hauls more, gets better mileage" etc. The above post doesn't merit further debate, ipsofacto.
GM hasn't learned it's lessons from '99, when they produced a superior brake in the first model year of the Silverado, that was not recalled for an abs problem, as you have noted for the 2000 model. Of course, not many Tundras are relevant to the discussion, since few have abs. What they do seem to have in abundance, are out of round drums, and lining problems. I have 28,000 miles on my pads. They look like they are good for 50,000 minimum. A Tundra owner can only be envious of that, as I'm sure you are.
Couldn't have said it better myself. GM is so subpar. In fact, I talked with a co-worker that has a 1998 Oldsmobile Silouette Minivan. It has been to the dealer 14 (yes, 14) times. So many problems and they still haven't figured it all out. Way to go GM management and the UAW- that's how to make us fellow Americans proud of you!
people WANT RWD you dolt..that is why many cars are going back to it. FWD is OK for snow and traction..but they cause too much problems and can't transfer power very well.
I'm glad RWD is back..it just makes a better car..period..
Unless you are a yuppy?....."I can't drive a RWD!"...wahhh
"many cars are going back to it" Which cars are those??? I know the Impalas went from RWD to FWD, GM is dropping the Camarobirds and rumor is rampant that they may be FWD(I hope not)when they come back. Just curious to the many cars comment.
Quad the intellectual - what a laugh! When you are trying to bash someone, get your facts straight. You misspelled "ipso facto". It is two words - not one.
This is the same guy who has been hanging out in the Tundra Owners topic bashing Tundras. Trucksrme is apparently his hero because he was finishing his posts "Good luck on this one now!" - Tundra envy big time.
Consumer reports rates the 2000 Chevy -90% in predicted reliability. Off their charts! They got this predicted reliability from the result of a survey filled out by owners of 1999 Chevies. This seems like a reasonable way to predict future reliability.
Toyota Tundra won the J.D Powers award for initial quality for 2000 full size pickups.
Toyota ranked a tie for 4th with BMW as a manufacturer. By comparison Chevy ranked 26th as a manufacturer. They are struggling to stay ahead of Hyundai! So, as much as you would like us to believe that Tundras have a significant brake problem, you have no proof to substantiate your claim.
My Tundra brakes work fine and are much more powerful than Chevy brakes. My ABS brakes work.
Do you know what ipsedixic means? (yes, I spelled it incorrectly, as you did also) I'll throw it out there for all you brainiacs to answer...if you're going to attempt to match brains, at least use the word in correct context...(run, do not walk to your nearest dictionary) Trucks4me- Who's saying foreign trucks are better? All I said was it won't take Toyota 75 years to put out a decent product...I wouldn't own a foreign truck-they're overpriced. Plain and simple. Without the chest-beating, "let's see who can be the biggest smarta$$" crap,.......here's my OPINION on the big three and Toyota-please comment in a manner that represents YOUR experience. GM: Has always come in the winner in gas mileage and towing capability-now, let's see them improve quality levels and safety-THAT would make 'em worth the $$ AND the hype. Ford: Solid, reliable, if a bit dull vehicles. Some problems with engines, knock and premature wear. Where's the excitement? Why continue to lag behind GM in terms of performance? Mustang motor a bright spot, but 5.4l needs a lot of work. Big gap between 5.4l and V10, need something in-between. Dodge: Big quality problems. Transmissions. Rear ends. Brakes. On the good side, great new engine lineup coming. Smart-looking vehicles with innovative ideas, but cutting corners once you look beneath the sexy sheet metal. Most potential of the big three-let's see if DC takes advantage of recent momentum. Toyota: I'll try to be fair. 1st off, why call it "full-size" when (as T-rme says "use your eyes") it ain't. Just turns off buyers who EXPECT a FULL-SIZE TRUCK. Has a great motor, but there should be more engine choices. I'll agree with the GM boys on this-it ain't "reliable" just because other Toyotas have received accolades. Time will tell. Here's the problem: You only get so many shots in today's market. F-up, and you gotta lot of bad publicity to overcome. The "yuppie" comments, although rather cruel and crude, actually have some merit. Out here in California, that really is the majority of Tundra owners. These are the same people who drove Suburbans and Yukons to the weekend soccer games, to work, and to Lake Tahoe. There aren't too many on the local construction sites. (I live in the fastest-growing town in the state.) Bet a few are already contemplating a new SportTrak or Exterra for the driveway as we speak. That doesn't necessarily make them a bad truck. This is gunrack-in-the-rear window country, (Central Valley), and I don't see any Tundras pulled up at the local watering holes, either. Loads of 'em parked at Silicon Valley tilt-ups, Starbucks, or Home Depot....So be it. What do I drive? Dakota QuadCab. Why? It ain't a full-size truck. Don't need one. Pulls 4500lbs of saltwater boat and trailer, seats 4 fisherman in comfort, and gets reasonable mileage. Simple. If there was a quad Ranger or S-10 (ugh), I'd consider it, but of course, they're ain't. The Nissan CrewCab is suited for just what the commercial shows, a guy, his wife, and three LITTLE girls. No power, no towing, and worst mileage than my Quad. OK kids, fire away....
I'm green with jealousy that I don't own a truck with defective ABS, out-of-spec engine components, noisy/leaking windows and the well-earned nickname "shakarado".
You persistent presence in the Tundra topics (for a year now) speaks volumes about your raging Tundra envy.
BTW, you come across pretty lame when you dabble in your intellectual posturing, as Bamatundra pointed out.
Comments
I got this from the May '00 issue of Motor
Trend. They did a comparison of "full size"
pickups. They rated the biggest, baddest Chevy
Silverado 1500 with the 5.3 L V8 and the 4.1
gears(which by the way is only rated to tow
8000lbs).
They also rated the biggest F150 with the 5.4L V8
and the Dodge 1500 with 5.9L against the Tundra
Access Cab V8.
You would think that this would be a mismatch.
The Silverado does have that barcolounger rear
seat. The Big3 engines are much bigger.
Here is the conclusion of the Motor Trend article:
"And the winner is... Which to Pick? In terms of
overall performance and sophistication - on road
and off - we have to say Tundra."
Here are some facts:
4/10/00 Toyota Tundra is Consumer Reports Top Pick
for Full Sized Pickup in 2000!
http://www.consumerreports.org/news/autos/Reports/toppick.htm
3/3/00 Toyota's New Millennium Truck
http://truckworld.com/Truck-Tests/Toyota-Tundra/tundra.html
1/9/00 4-Wheel & Off-Road Magazine 4x4 Truck of
the Year!
12/22/99 Motor Trend Magazine announces the 2000
Toyota Tundra as the Truck of the Year!
http://www.motortrend.com/
5/4/00 Toyota vehicles dominate this year's
quality survey rankings by J.D. Power
http://cnnfn.com/2000/05/04/companies/wires/carsurvey_wg/
Oh! - I forgot Big3 posters in this topic don't believe anything that is in magazines. That is because the magazines all say that the Tundra is The best full size 1/2 ton pickup.
You prefer to get your info from Billy Bob down the road a piece. (or hicksrme) LOL
Need I say more?
There is a TV show here in Canada on TSN (like ESPN) called Motoring 2000. One of the presenters in the show last weekend quoted a report (I think by Coopers & Lybrand) about the % of cars on the road after 10 years.
The winner was Cadillac (yes it had the highest % of cars still on the road), and the general point was that there was no justification for Japanese vehicles demanding higher resale because they didn't last any longer - I think they all came in around average.
The study was also carried out over a 5 year period to include the Japanese luxury brands and the figures were more or less identical, and even more revealing was that the luxury was no better than the standard - i.e. Acura and Honda were about equal, Infiniti and Nissan, Lexus and Toyota.
If I can find the report I will post it.
You may be right about Caddy - average miles probably are below the average for all cars, but that doesn't explain why the Japanese only come out in the middle of the pack.
I am still looking for the report - there wasn't a link from the show's website.
With the imports I had two Tacomas with blown head gaskets before 25k miles. I also had a Toyota camry that enjoyed chewing up starters and flywheels about every 10k miles.
Yes, I have had my fill of the import use a short time, then throw away vehicles. I have had domestics with minor problems, but nothing as major in such a short amount of time as I have had with imports. I don't whine and cry about it and say that they are all junk because of it either.
Puddles...puddles....puddles.
See ya in my rearview mirror......
kyle
Your love of all things Dodge is admirable if not misplaced. While you may choose to ignore glaring quality deficits, I'd be remiss if I didn't forewarn innocent consumers:
2000 Dodge Truck. Defect: The welds at the right-side lower control arm bracket-to-axle tube attachment may have been inadequate fatigue life due to poor weld quality.
Consequences: This can lead to separation of the control arm bracket from the axle tube. If bracket separates, the vehicle could experience reduced directional stability, braking degradation and/or pulling to the side during braking. (NHTSA Rcall No. 00V007/Chrysler Recall No. 861)
2000 Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sonoma, GMC sierra.
DEFECT:
Trucks equipped with 4-wheel disc brakes, the Antilock Brake System motor contains an out-of-specification spring clip.
CONSEQUENCES:
This clip could allow the motor bearing to become misaligned. If misalignment occurs, eventually the ABS will become non-functional. The Dynamic Rear Proportioning System--which optimizes the front to rear brake balance--would become inoperative, increasing the likelyhood of a crash. (NHTSA Recall No. 00V055/GM Recall No. 00013).
The only American brand I mentioned was Cadillac - last time I checked they were made by GM. I didn't rate the rest of the big three because the item didn't mention their relative ratings, and I haven't got the report yet to quote facts from.
Without facts I won't make claims.....hmmmm, now there's a thought.
other people can do nhtsa searches too. funny how you failed to mention few somewhat important notes from the recall. at first, i was concerned because i have a '00 silverado with abs and thought i better check this out...so i did. first off, the recall states that only '00 silverados manufactured in aug '99 were affected (potentially 10,674 units).
additionally, you left out this little section which states, "the base brakes would remain fully functional, but..."
so, what robbies message should read is:
(NHTSA Recall No. 00V055/GM Recall No. 00013)
DEFECT:
Light duty pickup trucks equipped with 4-wheel disc brakes. Some of these vehicles have an Antilock Brake System (ABS) motor containing an out-of-specification spring clip.
CONSEQUENCES:
This clip could allow the motor bearing to become misaligned. If misalignment occurs, eventually the ABS would be non-functional. The base brakes would remain fully functional, but the Dynamic Rear Proportioning (DRP) system, which optimizes front to rear brake balance, would become inoperative.
still a good post regarding the quality of gm products. because it shows that after one month, they identified and corrected the problem. something toyota doesn't seem to be quite as adept at...see my next post for COMPLETE details...
kyle
Make: TOYOTA TRUCK
Model: TUNDRA
Potential Number of Units Affected: 16472
Manufactured From: FEB 1999 To: JUL 1999
Year of Recall: '99
DEFECT:
Sport utility vehicles. The tail light socket may have been improperly molded, resulting in the locking tab having insufficient force to retain the bulb.
CONSEQUENCE:
If the bulb falls out of the socket, the brake or tail lamp function cannot occur.
hmmm...6 MONTHS and 16,472 units later they caught that? that's top notch quality assurance there, huh? pretty complicated moving part they got there too...a light bulb locking tab. but hey, toyota's number one in reliability!!! yeah right.
interesting side note...anyone else pick up what the NHTSA (Note: a NON-BIASED government agency - not a for-profit magazine) refers to the tundra as? that's right...a sport utility vehicle. and yet they refer to the silverado as a what? a light duty pick-up truck. i wonder how that can be? hmmm...
so what weak, personal-attack-centered, arguments you gonna come up with now? i noticed that redfox and bamatundra seem to have "disappeared into the dust". redfox? hello? seems you ran out of apples-to-oranges comparisons (i.e. camry is reliable therefore tundra will be too) pretty quick, yes? of course, i'm sure bamatundra will be back here quoting national geographic or something else before long. perhaps an article stating that tundra won the better homes and gardens' "Best Full-Size Truck in 2000"?
kyle
www.nhtsa.dot.gov
click and follow the "recalls" link near the top of the page...
kyle
kyle
I doubt any of them have ever even touched an engine in their lives.
- Tim
uh huh...
- Tim
The new for '99 trucks were all new except for the carry over V6.
Little? look at the facts. The dimensions for size, interior/exterior. Tundra doesnt measure up.
So toyota wants to be full size, where's the dually?
Diesel?
Crew cab?
Can you get posi on one?
Toyota would've been better off calling it what it is..........midsize. Dodge calls the Dakota midsize, it even has a 4.7 V8 available.
I don't have anything to quote here, but I believe all 1/2 ton trucks are considered "light-duty", but that is in comparison only to HD - Heavy Duty trucks which usually includes 3/4 and 1 tons.
I think the point here would be that the Tundra was probably considered an SUV because it didn't measure up to even the "light duty" truck specs. Whatever those may be.
wonderful objective input there. you're sure showing "us mongrels" how well educated you can be by slinging some more of that tundra-fanatic mud around. got anything productive to add?
i gotta agree with gnipper here. 1/2 ton pick-ups ARE considered light duty. 3/4's (chevy 2500, ford f250, dodge ram 2500 (i think that's right), and toyota - oops, nevermind) and 1 tons (chevy 3500 dually, ford f350 dually, dodge ram 3500 dually, and again toyota???) are heavy duty trucks. i don't suppose we should expect someone like yourself to be able to comprehend such complexity.
kyle
kyle
kyle
- Tim
See ya in my rearview mirror....:~)
he heee he!
maybe you'd like to explain why you chose to omit two fairly important parts of that recall? or maybe not...because your intent was to manipulate factual data in order to deliberately deceive people. also, i don't believe i said a lightbulb coming loose is worse than defective abs. i said gm fixed their problem in one month. toyota took six months. that's very poor quality control on toyota's part. not the kind of stuff that wins you awards for reliability.
kyle
good god man, where do you get this stuff? look, here's the ENTIRE recall message (there was ONLY one) for the 2000 Chevy Silverado:
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 00V055000
Component: BRAKES:HYDRAULIC:ANTI-SKID SYSTEM
Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Mfg. Campaign #: 00013
Year: 2000
Make: CHEVROLET TRUCK
Model: SILVERADO
Potential Number of Units Affected: 10674
Manufactured From: AUG 1999 To: AUG 1999
Year of Recall: '00
Type of Report: Vehicle
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Light duty pickup trucks equipped with 4-wheel disc brakes. Some of these vehicles have an Antilock Brake System (ABS) motor containing an out-of-specification spring clip. This clip could allow the motor bearing to become misaligned. If misalignment occurs, eventually the ABS would be non-functional.
The base brakes would remain fully functional, but the Dynamic Rear Proportioning (DRP) system, which optimizes front to rear brake balance, would become inoperative.
Dealers will replace the brake pressure module valve assembly...ok, blah blah blah...you get the idea. the rest is how to contact GM/NHTSA.
IT WAS FIXED IN A MONTH. if you read the recall notice, the NHTSA has only recalled the ones built in aug 99. not sure about you, but where i come from, august is a month. and it's only one month. now, since that's the only month of silverado manufacture that has been recalled, i gotta be thinking that GM FIXED the problem. OTHERWISE, the NHTSA wouldn't have limited the recall to ONE MONTH. lastly, i did a recall search for 1999 Chevrolet Silverado and it said NOTHING about a recall on the ABS.
now, i'm wondering if you care to respond to my question as to how or why the most reliable freaking truck in the world (supposively) can't even keep it's brake light bulbs seated? or perhaps why it took them SIX months to identify and correct that problem. i imagine not...
kyle
From what I hear the engines in these Toyota's are pretty expensive. All trucks break in time, I would think having one of the big 3 would be cheaper to repair/replace than a Toyota - many more built. Am I wrong? And I don't want to hear how the Toyota will never break down, etc., etc., etc., that's all just a bunch of bull...
GM stock is worthless
They are the worst-managed car company (American)
With the exception of the new 'vette, NONE of their products stand out, oh well, Cadillac had something going, but now they're reverting to rear-wheel drive cars again.
I'm not a Toyota owner or afficionado-but:
Totota's been making "full-size" trucks for how long? Maybe 10 years, if you count the T-100?
GM been in business how long? Making trucks how long? Making utter crap how long? Even if the "new" post-1999 truck line proves to be a reliable improvement over the dung they've inflicted on the uneducated public for years (and it's WAY too early to see how good GM's stuff is) you morons that keep bashing Toyota's attempt at a full-size truck only reinforce my earlier statements about living at the shallow end of the gene pool. Better hope Toyota don't learn too fast....else 5 years from now you'll be trading in your GM product for a truck that looks better, hauls more, carries more, lasts longer, gets better gas mileage, and costs less....it won't take Toyota 75 years of truck-making to produce a superior product. 'Course, GM could buy Toyota..
(waiting for the ipsedistic response pattern to pick up again)
Do you need to be educated by your daddy, tucksforme? GM and chevy are the same truck with a different grill! Them chevy daytime running lights are on, but nobody's home.
If you look at safety recalls for the GMC Sonoma, guess what you'll find? Do the same for the S-10 and Sierra. Apology accepted, Kyle.
Toyota's market capitalization is 4 times greater than GM's. That makes GM 4 times easier to take over than Toyota. Doesn't take genes from the deep end to see the error of your misspelling and ipsedixit statements, like "...(Toyota) hauls more, gets better mileage" etc. The above post doesn't merit further debate, ipsofacto.
Next challenger please...
I'm glad RWD is back..it just makes a better car..period..
Unless you are a yuppy?....."I can't drive a RWD!"...wahhh
Baby want a bottle?
- Tim
When you are trying to bash someone, get your facts straight. You misspelled "ipso facto". It is two words - not one.
This is the same guy who has been hanging out in the Tundra Owners topic bashing Tundras. Trucksrme is apparently his hero because he was finishing his posts "Good luck on this one now!" - Tundra envy big time.
Consumer reports rates the 2000 Chevy -90% in predicted reliability. Off their charts! They got this predicted reliability from the result of a survey filled out by owners of 1999 Chevies. This seems like a reasonable way to predict future reliability.
Toyota Tundra won the J.D Powers award for initial quality for 2000 full size pickups.
Toyota ranked a tie for 4th with BMW as a manufacturer. By comparison Chevy ranked 26th as a manufacturer. They are struggling to stay ahead of Hyundai! So, as much as you would like us to believe that Tundras have a significant brake problem, you have no proof to substantiate your claim.
My Tundra brakes work fine and are much more powerful than Chevy brakes. My ABS brakes work.
Next Challenger Please...
Trucks4me- Who's saying foreign trucks are better? All I said was it won't take Toyota 75 years to put out a decent product...I wouldn't own a foreign truck-they're overpriced. Plain and simple.
Without the chest-beating, "let's see who can be the biggest smarta$$" crap,.......here's my OPINION on the big three and Toyota-please comment in a manner that represents YOUR experience.
GM: Has always come in the winner in gas mileage and towing capability-now, let's see them improve quality levels and safety-THAT would make 'em worth the $$ AND the hype.
Ford: Solid, reliable, if a bit dull vehicles. Some problems with engines, knock and premature wear. Where's the excitement? Why continue to lag behind GM in terms of performance? Mustang motor a bright spot, but 5.4l needs a lot of work. Big gap between 5.4l and V10, need something in-between.
Dodge: Big quality problems. Transmissions. Rear ends. Brakes. On the good side, great new engine lineup coming. Smart-looking vehicles with innovative ideas, but cutting corners once you look beneath the sexy sheet metal. Most potential of the big three-let's see if DC takes advantage of recent momentum.
Toyota: I'll try to be fair. 1st off, why call it "full-size" when (as T-rme says "use your eyes") it ain't. Just turns off buyers who EXPECT a FULL-SIZE TRUCK. Has a great motor, but there should be more engine choices. I'll agree with the GM boys on this-it ain't "reliable" just because other Toyotas have received accolades. Time will tell. Here's the problem: You only get so many shots in today's market. F-up, and you gotta lot of bad publicity to overcome. The "yuppie" comments, although rather cruel and crude, actually have some merit. Out here in California, that really is the majority of Tundra owners. These are the same people who drove Suburbans and Yukons to the weekend soccer games, to work, and to Lake Tahoe. There aren't too many on the local construction sites. (I live in the fastest-growing town in the state.) Bet a few are already contemplating a new SportTrak or Exterra for the driveway as we speak. That doesn't necessarily make them a bad truck. This is gunrack-in-the-rear window country, (Central Valley), and I don't see any Tundras pulled up at the local watering holes, either. Loads of 'em parked at Silicon Valley tilt-ups, Starbucks, or Home Depot....So be it.
What do I drive? Dakota QuadCab. Why? It ain't a full-size truck. Don't need one. Pulls 4500lbs of saltwater boat and trailer, seats 4 fisherman in comfort, and gets reasonable mileage. Simple. If there was a quad Ranger or S-10 (ugh), I'd consider it, but of course, they're ain't. The Nissan CrewCab is suited for just what the commercial shows, a guy, his wife, and three LITTLE girls. No power, no towing, and worst mileage than my Quad. OK kids, fire away....
I'm green with jealousy that I don't own a truck with defective ABS, out-of-spec engine components, noisy/leaking windows and the well-earned nickname "shakarado".
You persistent presence in the Tundra topics (for a year now) speaks volumes about your raging Tundra envy.
BTW, you come across pretty lame when you dabble in your intellectual posturing, as Bamatundra pointed out.