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Tundra vs the Big 3 - Continued

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Comments

  • superjim2000superjim2000 Member Posts: 314
    Good point.


    Jim
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    There is lots of evidence to the fact that Ford is holding back. They are using a technique called incrementalism. They have 4.6 L producing 385 hp and 5.0L (modulars not windsors) producing 415 hp. These engines pass emissions. They have the technology. 32V heads only on the Lincolns and Cobras for now. Why? Money!!! Also, all Ford car, AND trucks are all classified as LEV's (except for the Lightning and it will be next year). Can Chevrolet or Dodge say this? GM is under the gun about their CAFE. Ford has no trouble meeting the new higher standards. Better get your Chevy's now or it will be 1972 all over again.
  • markcordmarkcord Member Posts: 113
    Don't lump us Dodge guys in with the Toy boys. I drive a V10 4X4 for crying out loud! Man that hurts!
  • quark99quark99 Member Posts: 136
    Read through the string....talk about a little boy inferiority complex! Reminds me of those pitchers running from the bullpen towards the bench-clearing brawl...arriving just in time to run around the outside of the dogpile trying to take a quick cheap shot and then run away...wouldn't want to get your uniform dirty now, eh Tim? I hear they're replacing the skull-and-crossbones caution symbols on toxic waste with the well-worn "bowtie".....4.8l, 5.3l, 6.0l, 8.0l-it don't matter, none of them bowtie boys can run with the Dakota...jus' keep slammin' them other brands, it'll make that Slowverado seem like a Viper-
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    Bigsnag
    Totally agree with you about incrementalism. But everyone acts like GM has already hit the ceiling of their design. After one year. Come-on guys, benefit of the doubt, please.

    The 6.0 SS is a perfect example. there is a prototype of a an engine producing 70 to 100 more hp than its current production sibling. Doesn't sound like a maxed out design to me. Its called technology roadmap. Technology under development, that you do you're engineering the right way now so you can easily incorporate it when it gets here.

    I never said Ford didn't have the technology, I agree the Lincoln version of the 5.4 is quite impressive. The legend for that engine is just beginning. if it would just quit knocking... ;)

    I guess I don't understand exactly what LEV calls for. How can any V10 in a 7000 lb truck be called Low emissions in the same context as a v6?

    Never heard anything about GM's CAFE troubles. they had trouble right before the release of the new trucks, which is why they advance their '99 models into '98, so they could take advantage of the higher mileage new family. You're saying the 5.3 and 4.8 getting 20 mpg has GM in trouble? Sorry, but I don't believe you.

    Quark: you're saying the Dakota will outpull the 5.3, 6.0, and 8.1??? The 4.8--Maybe. call me if you can prove otherwise.
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    necessarily mileage. Car A can burn twice the amount of fuel as car B, yet burn it cleaner and more completely and ergo put out less emissions than car B. Unburned fuel is one of the biggest problems in trying to cut down on emissions. 20 mpg is impressive but has very little to do with harmful pollutants being produced by that vehicle. If a hydrocarbon is burned completely the end-products will be CO2 and H2O. Incompletely burned fuel produces, first off the fuel itself and CO among other things.
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    it seems about once a month somebody else takes a shot at you. Must be something is the air up there! Good luck...
  • dbhulldbhull Member Posts: 150
    I never meant to agree or even have knowledge of any breathing benefit to an ohc design. Truth be known, I know very little about ohc designs. I have been a pushrod owner for the most part up till now.

    I simply agreed with, Lord help me, Bama, in saying that a lot of the GM trucks are plagued with pinging problems. I know. I had one of them. Doesnt mean it is a bad truck. I would never say that. Just that ping is one of the issues GM has in their trucks, where Ford or Dodge, etc. has something else.

    Dan
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    ...cuz it's getting thick man!

    A Silverado can't outpull a Dakota?...man..I thought I heard it all!

    Marcord,

    Sorry to group you with toys..I actually have more respect for Dodge than Toys......although Dodge owners do have lame excuses as well...

    Don't wanna get the uniform dirty...man...I have gone thru countless uniforms in this place...doesn't bother me...I can take it...(unlike these whining Toy owners)

    .....where did I put them boots?

    This debate will never be over......but the Ford/Chevy fans know we are the winners..so that's all that matters..

    Now only if you could put this much effort into a truck bash?

    - Tim
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    Them yuppies still aint figured out how too check that oil on em, and now they be engine "design" experts? Aint these them same yuppies who aint figured out what "full size" be meanin? Good luck on this one now!
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    Bigsnag
    Separate out my two statements.

    LEV: thanks, that makes sense.

    in your previous post you said Ford was meeting LEV reqs while GM was having trouble with CAFE.

    but by your last post you disconnect the LEV and gas mileage.

    So you are kinda contradictory. You're confusing me man!!

    Trying not to stray too far: GM's engines develop the best powerband and get, argueably, the best mileage in a full size truck. From a pushrod v-8. In that light, For engine design, can you really say they are behind the times and lacking technology? Not in my opinion.
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    image
    Good luck on this one now!
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    I was saying two different things at the same time. Here, I'll try to separate them

    CAFE: I have heard that GM was having trouble meeting the CAFE. This could possibly be due to the fact that they don't sell enough small high (30+) mpg cars to get their average down. I don't know.

    LEV: All Ford's are currently classified LEV's. When the new emissions standards go into effect, 2002, Chevrolet may have a harder time meeting those specs. Remember in 1972 how performance dropped off so dramatically, due to the new "smog" laws. My last post #323, was an explanation of why high mileage doesn't necessarily mean clean. I thought that is what you were debating. Now that I look at your post again, it seems like you were debating the CAFE issue, not emmissions. Sorry.
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    I don't know if I would say that just yet. I think to some extent that is based upon the past reputation of Isuzu. Which is a great rep, I might add, BUT basing an opinion on past performance is part of what you haze Toy owners about. I believe the Duramax will be Chevy's best offer of a diesel ever, to date, but I still think that engine is a few years and many miles from proving itself to be in the league of the powerstroke or the cummins.
  • 2drive2drive Member Posts: 90
    cdean-
    No, the Dakota can't out pull the Silverado, but, optioned with the tow group the Dakota is rated for a 2,600 lb. payload capacity!
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    But that be the best trannie for sure. Ya cant be beatin them Alisons for sure. Good luck on this one now!
  • bigsnagbigsnag Member Posts: 394
    They actually fit Chevy's slogan better than their own trucks. Like a rock. Those things are really, really solid.
  • fordsrmefordsrme Member Posts: 22
    There's no reason now to talk about Chevy's as long as the F-150 is here now.

    This is a quote here from a Chevy salesman talking to another one after a customer left
    Poor soul, I feel sorry for the person who just bought our truck here when he be going over just 2 blocks to Ford and bought himself the best of the best. Sure makes you feel good that we both drive them Fords!

    There you GO!!
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    Who are you trying to convince? Yourself...
  • ford250ford250 Member Posts: 25
    HERE IS THE QUOTE FROM A FORD SALEMAN.

    I wish I would have bought a Dodge Ram. Then I would have some room to work under the hood.
  • dbhulldbhull Member Posts: 150
    If you buy a Ford, mostly likely you won't ever
    "NEED" to work under the hood. Maybe that is why they made Dodges with plenty of engine compartment space. They knew that Dodges would need lots of maintenance.....:)
  • ford250ford250 Member Posts: 25
    Fords have to stay in the shop alot since Ford killed the 5.0l & replaced it with the junk 4.6l SOHC.
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    and Dodge is on the cutting edge with the 318 & 360 - even using them in 2001...
  • dbhulldbhull Member Posts: 150
    Hmmmm. I would a thought with a name incinuating Ford ownership, you would know a little something about Fords anyway. Guess not.
  • ford250ford250 Member Posts: 25
    The 318 is a very good motor.
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    The 318 is a Dog. Always has been. Despite the canuker snooley's protests, the 318 barely competed with similar offerings from GM and Ford.
    The 302? Sure, it was decent but it's time to move on to better motors.
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    there dropping it in favor of the 4.7L. 4.7L gets better mileage, has more horsepower, and is much stronger in general than the 5.2L. It (and it's big brother) have never quite lived up to their potential...
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    Leave Ford250 alone! The 318 is a very good motor. By 1990 standards....
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    and it was better than the body that it came in...
  • nrd525nrd525 Member Posts: 109
    Whatever gave you the idea that Dodges don't ping?The 360 QC I drove clacked like hell when I punched it,I thought it started after it had some miles on it,this thing had like 50.
    My friend's 97 F150 has had a ton of engine problems,mostly leaks,and a cracked intake.But the worst thing is the transmissions it keeps eating!He's just got it fixed,the third time now,and the warranty is almost up.So it the trucks time,it's going to get traded,on a Dodge or Chevy/GMC.
  • dbhulldbhull Member Posts: 150
    Anyone can tell personal experiences like this in ALL makes. I was not trying to say that all Chevy's ping, or that all Dodges have bad transmissions. Just to say that Chevy seems to have more of the pingers than others and Dodge seems to have more of the shelled transmissions early in its life than others. All of these are good trucks, but each has their own quirky problems they are more prone to. Sorry your Dodge has pinged and your buddy's Ford had transmission problems. Please wish me luck with my Ford. I am tired of driving problem trucks. I am hoping to have a good one this time. I believe that I do.

    Dan
  • werkingwerking Member Posts: 431
    shoot...i don't have a story to tell you about what this or that salesmen said. when shopping for an suv for my wife, we briefly looked at the 4runner (shudder!). ended up getting her a jimmy...nice truck. know what the toy salesman at that dealership was driving?

    '00 silverado...hmm, what's that tell you about toys? and, oh by the way, it was a 1/2 ton reg cab, so no whining about comparisons.

    lastly...sorry, i'm just now catching up...i wonder how tundra got all those reliability ratings when it's a brand new model? and...what about the "shakerado" getting truck of the year in '99 when it first came out. anyone seeing any coincidences here? man...chevy must've just gone to hell in a hand-basket on the '00's for them to be so low quality. especially after winning all the same awards tindra won this year. c'mon ladies...tundra just ain't all that. if you're basing your truck purchase on consumer reports...you deserve everything that happens to you. those dicks wouldn't know the difference between a full-size, mid-size, or geo tracker if you showed them. and no...i don't have tundra envy...whatever that is.

    kyle
  • redfox1redfox1 Member Posts: 42
    You sound just like trucksome, another South Carolina hillbilly. Yes, I have onwed a Tundra for over a year and am very satisfied with it and hate to disappoint you, but I have had nary a problem with it. The reliability of the Tundra in Consumers Report was based on the proven reliability of the 4.7 V-8 engine in the Lexus and other Toyota vehicles. The reliability of the Camry and other Toyota vehicles over the years made it easy for Consumers to make the call on the Tundra. Prior to my Tundra, I drove Ford F-150' for 17 years so I know a little bit about pickup trucks. You and trucksome should climb back into your tobacco patch and quit being so envious of the Tundra.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    don't worry man...The babble here means nothing..I mean consider the source!...a Toy owner

    - Tim
  • werkingwerking Member Posts: 431
    interesting...and typical of the toy owners: respond to factual points with personal attacks. i mean, is that all you have to say, "i've driven a ford for 17 years, therefore i am a truck expert"?

    you're not disappointing me that your tundra's running well. i'm happy for you. my silverado runs well too.

    oh, and incidentally, i'm not from south carolina. i'm stationed (army) at fort jackson. i'm originally from pennsylvania. i've been stationed in kentucky, texas, california, oklahoma, georgia, and korea. so...got slurs for all those places too? it kills me how defensive you guys get when someone shows you the facts...

    kyle
  • redfox1redfox1 Member Posts: 42
    Apparently you havecn't been in the Army long enough to learn how to read correctly. In my message 354 I never said "i am a truck expert". Also, I don't understand your words "it kills me how defensive you guys get when someone shows you the facts". You, trucksome and a few others wouldn't know the facts even if thet bit you in the face.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    What facts are we talking about?
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    When ya be pointin out the facts on them tundras, them yuppies, feelin foolish cuz they got tricked on the size of em, be lashin out at folks. This just be the way of em. Good luck on this one now!
  • werkingwerking Member Posts: 431
    if you had any facts to bite me in the face...i'd find that very interesting. you mention that toyota's reputation for reliability is what won the tundra all these awards (paraphrasal, yes, but i think i'm pretty close). ok, fine, that and $1 will get you a cup of coffee at mcdonald's. that's a FACT (watch your nose). when tundra's establish a rep to last as long as camry's, and other toyota vehicles, i'll understand the consumer reports rating. until then, what say you respond to my initial challenge of how the silverado managed to win essentially the same awards in '99 that tundra did in '00, but all of sudden now is a worthless pile of junk. hmmm? how's that work? as for the "expert" comment...my apologies, that's the way it sounded. i will now only give you credit for "knowing a little bit about pickup trucks" which actually is prob'ly a lot more accurate. now, think you can respond without slinging some slur about the army, or where i live? you know, like answering my question? facts now, red, think FACTS...

    kyle
  • dbhulldbhull Member Posts: 150
    Them Tundra folks can't handle the facts! Thats the sad truth on this tale now!
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    That reminds me of a .wav file that applies to Tundra Owners...and all people who even like them...

    www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/Catch.wav

    And of course Homers words about Toys...

    www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/TindraOwners.wav

    ...Man this Is fun......(unless you are a Toy owner)..

    LOL

    Lighten up guys!

    - Tim
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    Ya be havin that short fuse too, if ya got tricked into buyin one of them tundras only too figure out later it werent "full size".

    tundra=less truck, more buck

    Good luck on this one now!
  • rdve80rdve80 Member Posts: 139
    I quote you. "The reliability of the Camry and other Toyota vehicles over the years made it easy for Consumers to make the call on the Tundra." So in bragging about the Tundra quality and reliability, your saying that it's not FACT but OWNER OPINION based on other Toyotas. In addition, since most owners don't have multiple NEW trucks, how can this OPINION represent a FACTUAL basis for strong claims of superiority?
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    Redfox had this too tell:

    The reliability of the Camry and other Toyota vehicles over the years ....

    Aint them the same ones that was bustin head-gaskets and rustin like swiss cheese now? Them ones be an example of great reliability? Good luck on this one now!
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Imports...especially Toys....were known as 10 year throw away cars....meaning ten years later...they were rusted and falling apart...and it was cheaper to dump them.
    Today there is still a lot of truth to that theory....except maybe it's a 15 year throw out..and it costs a lot more!

    Name one classic Import?...dohh!

    I can go drive by Fords "Crystal palace".(do you Toy owners even know what that is??)..see the original part of the Model T plant...even see the old Packard Plant...as well as the site of the Original Caddy plant...all right here in my hometown....right in the USA.

    Tons of heritage...tons of class.

    The 57 Chevy
    55 T-bird
    70 Chevelle
    ..American cars that will live forever.

    The Muscle car era....what happened to the Import muscle cars?...dohh!

    I'm glad to be around real Americans at car shows and share all this heritage....as for Imports?...(don't see too many at shows...wonder why?)well....hopefully 10 years is coming soon...

    - Tim
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    Good luck on this one now!
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    in Lexus - come on. Chevy/Ford probably made more 5.3L/5.4L engines in their first model year than Toyota/Lexus made 4.7L engines in all years. Reliability? Plus their two different vehicles with different purposes. Your reliability is really a stretch...
  • tinindianatinindiana Member Posts: 46
    You fellas keep talking about being proud Americans because you buy "big3" trucks and go to car shows. Big Deal. Get with the year 2000, be open minded and give the Tundra its' due. I think you know that the Accord and Camry were not originally known to be quality cars. Now there numbers 1 & 2 in the good ole' U S of A! I'm a proud American too, but that doesn't mean I have to buy vehicles that are continually behind in engineering, reliability, etc.
  • dbhulldbhull Member Posts: 150
    Those Tundras are continually behind my F150! I see them in my rearview mirror all the time....slippin and a slidin cuz they haves no limited slip or locking differentials.

    he he hheeee.
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    Them tundras be #10 right behind them nissans. Them tacomas ones be #8. #1 thru #7 be all US of A. Facts is facts. Maybe in a year or 2 them limited ones be knockin off them nissans for that #9 spot, eh? So much for them big3 ones bein behind on them things. Ponder this one, I be sure ya can come up with that yuppie twist too be explainin why this be. Good luck on this one now!
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