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  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Ofcourse I read your post Tagman.

    S300 Blutec hybrid?

    Very tempting! In fact more tempting than a S550 LS600hL. R
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    am going to go out on a limb here and predict that the longer term trend will be towards diminishing sales for HELM sedans.

    Disagree. The High end luxury car will be redefined but not diminish in terms of importance. The emphasis on the best of the best luxury cars will be fuel efficiency. Is it mere coincidence that BMW’s new slogan is “Efficient Dynamics”? High end luxury cars will be more fuel efficient than even smaller and lighter mainstream economy subcompact cars and that will be due to them having better and more expensive drivetrain technology. In the future luxury car owners will boast about their fuel efficiency as much as they boast about performance today. In the future BMW Performance Centre driving schools will include as many classes on fuel efficient driving as on performance driving.

    If you want a good picture of what the future HELM sedan will look like then just look at the upcoming MB S300 hybrid Blutec---a car that is likely to be more desirable for its fuel efficiency than its performance.

    High end luxury SUVs will become more important in the future?

    I disagree.

    Aren't high end lux SUVs currently diminishing in terms of sales volumes right now? Aren't their sales prospects dismal right now and what about their smaller car based crossover cousins(X5, RX, MDX , Q7, Cayenne, F35/45)? Sales of these type of vehicles are not exactly stellar also.

    The luxury trend seems to be going towards "sport active vehicles" (a nice way of saying a minivan) and not large luxury SUVs as evidently shown by BMW's upcoming X and maybe even F models and the new upcoming Lexus vehicle which is suppose to compete with the MB RL. Also the newest and latest potential luxury SUVs are at the lower end and not the higher end (new RDX and X3 competitors like the Audi Q5).

    The MB RL maybe a flop but that does not mean BMW and Lexus endeavors in this segment will end up in failure. MB's marketing execution and design for the RL (a classy looking hearse) has been as dismal as Infiniti's marketing of the Q45.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Thanks for the response.

    I include all those SUV CUV SAV, and wagon designations. What I am describing essentially is the type of vehicle with the rear hatch type opening and either two or four doors (usually four), as opposed to the conventional sedan with a trunk.

    I suppose the lack of trunk and instead the open space cargo area is the most significant difference I am defining.

    For the sake of discussion, I'll use the SUV terminology, but I include all the variants when I use those letters.

    I acknowledge that there is a temporary setback to the large SUV, but this is due to fuel concerns. As alternative powertrains and more efficient fuel technologies become available, the SUV will become more popular again. Also, the mid-size and smaller ones will increase in popularity at a fast rate.

    The versatility of SUV / CUV / SAV/ wagon body styles is more and more a lifestyle of the American (and Canadian) family. Even the Mini Cooper is of this body style, and MANY of the new fuel-efficient cars will use it. The GTI I just purchased uses it as well.

    I just don't see the future looking bright for large sedans. They are not versatile enough, IMO, and they will continue to contradict the North American lifestyle.

    As these "SUV's and the like" get more fuel efficient, they are going to catch on fire in terms of sales, IMO. Some of them will have more slanted and streamlined hatchbacks for aerodynamic and style reasons, but just the same, they will not use a conventional trunk, and their rear seats will fold down.

    The future Range Rover, as an example (if they survive) will be all-aluminum, and get much better gas mileage. Americans love their SUVs and are presently upset over the fuel costs. When the fuel becomes less of an issue, they will sell like hotcakes again... and for the long term.

    We're talking hybrid Cayenne, hybrid Tahoe, diesel Tahoe, hybrid Escape/Mariner, hybrid Highlander, hydrogen Honda FCX, hybrid Prius, diesel GL, diesel GLK, diesel ML, hybrid ML, diesel Tiguan, diesel Toureg, hybrid and diesel Q7, hybrid Lexus RX, hybrid Lexus LX, diesel X5, diesel CR-V, and MANY other possible combinations. Add to this all the more fuel-efficient gas ICE vehicles of similar body styles. Many of which will have alternative powertrains as well. RAV4, Scion Xa, and Xb, new upcoming BMW X6?, all those Range Rovers and Land Rovers, and Audis, and Buick Enclave, and Caddy Escalade, and many different Jeeps, Ford Explorer, Expedition, Chrysler Aspen, Dodge Durango, and an expanding Hummer line, Nissan Exterra, Toyota Sequoia, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser, Lexus GX, Mini Clubman, Saturn Vue, Subaru Forester, many Volvo wagons, and on, and on, and on... I can't take the time to name them all.

    So many more exciting and incredibly versatile vehicles will be available soon. I can't help it but to see a diminished need/want for the impractical large HELM... but I do see upcoming reality-based compelling reasons to go with the SUV/wagon/hatchback type vehicles.

    ...IMHO.

    And... I am OK if I'm dead wrong on this. But it's just my gut feeling that this is the direction it is going to go.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I have owned various sedans from Mercedes, Cadillac, Lexus, and BMW and none of these compare to our current LX for comfort, perceived safety and all around utility. Plus my wife says she needs the LX for self defense in shopping center and mall parking lots. If you are driving a normal car you just can't see to pull out of a parking slot, etc.

    I have no idea what the mega trends will be in the future but the Houdini household will probably continue to have an LX for the foreseeable future.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    My 83 MB 300D that will sooner or later reach 300 K miles is proof of German car reliability. I dont need to sit on a high stool and be lectured by a CR fortune teller on what cars are best to own up to 200K miles.

    Actually, CR rated the old Mercedes models as EXTREMELY reliable. I had an older CR buying guide (dated sometime between 1989-1992) and most of the Mercedes models covered in that guide (1982-1983 through 1988-1989) had exceptional reliability in practically all areas; the diesel S-class, in particular, was exceptional in almost every area, and "simply" very good in the few remaining areas.

    The reliability that you have experienced in your 83 MB is to be expected, according to that buying guide. ;)
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I wonder how they would rate by today's standards. Cars have gotten so much better that the lower than average today would have been the leaders back then. Having owned both 82 and 86 300D's I can vouch that they were very good cars but they were not anywhere near bullet proof as today's Honda's, Toyota's, Lexus etc. I can recall several unscheduled trips to the dealer for blown fuses (very common for some reason), battery discharging, bad cold weather starts etc. The good news is that once you fixed them they just kept running unlike the US cars at the time which seemed to have 50-75 K life and started to rattle at about 25K. It's a different ball game today and maybe CR should take that into consideration rather than just ranking from worst to best. It's almost like those days of grading on a curve where if everyone got a 90% percent on a test, that translated to a "C". Today's "C" car is pretty darn good.
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    ...don't have a desire to drive a land yacht...also don't like cars that are larger than the 5-series

    I also feel that way. I really like the LS460, but I do not actually want to own one anytime soon. The S550 that I drove (a car known to feel smaller than its size suggests) at last year's Taste of Lexus was wonderful to pilot during my short experience and felt just a bit more "special" than the LS, but it shares an unfortunate trait with the LS - it is far too BIG! Maneuvering either of those vehicles in traffic simply would require more forethought and clearance (like an SUV) and significantly reduce the already meager amount of fun that I can indulge in during my commute.

    While the GS/5 represents the peak vehicle size for the both of us, my next vehicle (hybrid or coupe) is likely to be closer to the size of your IS. I really enjoyed the IS 250 loaner vehicle that I had during a scheduled maintenance service visit, and I found the engine to be quite peppy and pleasing to the ear.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Cars have gotten so much better that the lower than average today would have been the leaders back then

    Absolutely the truth. The reliability of Lexus is astonishing by historical standards, but also to the credit of most of the rest of the marques, their reliability by historical comparison makes them reasonably reliable.

    So, the barometer has changed, as Lexus (and Buick...LOL) have set a high standard. Even average cars of today are incredibly dependable, and the overblown fears that many posters have expressed are terribly over exaggerated.

    Does anyone else get the impression that J.D. Powers and Consumer Reports reliability data are not always the same?

    TagMan
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    I wonder how they would rate by today's standards

    Quite good, perhaps. The 300SD had statistical reliability ratings that topped most Toyotas and Hondas of that time; the Japanese cars were simply far easier to attain and maintain for the masses and were, therefore, given more attention by CR. If a "Good Bets for Making 200,000 Miles" list were published back in 1991 or so, Mercedes-Benz models would have been at the very top of the list. Unfortunately, recent MB models have been far less reliable overall for both their long-term owners and for CR:

    link title

    link title [in comments]

    Even so, I would still purchase a Mercedes-Benz if I really wanted to own one - no matter how poorly it scores in statistical reliability. Most cars produced today are reasonably reliable and you stand a good chance of acquiring a flawless vehicle from practically any brand; some brands just turn out a higher percentage of relatively problem-free individual vehicles.

    CR does not simply rank vehicle reliability from best to worst; they are rated based on their deviation from the norm ("Much Better Than Average" down through "Much Worse Than Average"). You can peruse the CR blog to get a better idea of the exact types of problems that are reported by some of the survey respondents. Most of the vehicles that currently occupy the bottom of CR's reliability list have major powertrain and/or electrical problems that are reported at a far higher rate than what is expected and typical for a new car sold in America today; these cars definitely would not receive a "C" score for predicted reliability - today or even 2 decades ago.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I'm not sure if the lower performers in terms of reliability have major power train issues or electronic glitches. When you look at all of the MB's that are not reccomended, I think you are dealing mainly with electronic gremlins that can be as wide ranging as faulty Nav systems to errant warning lights going on etc. These would be reported as problems and would cause them to "not reccomend" the brand. In the old days, the fuse issues I mentioned in the 300D were also problems but because the number of problems in the worse performing cars was so much greater, they were overlooked. I would love to see how many problems per 100 cars was considered good 25 years ago compared to now. That would be interesting, don't you think?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Dewey and Hpowders - Congratulations. This post is dedicated to both of you.

    BMW Group outsold Audi and Mercedes in the month of July due to increased demand for the BMW and MINI brands. Now for the month of August, BMW has outsold rival Audi and has outgrown Mercedes, making it the world’s largest premium carmaker.

    Volkswagen’s Audi sold 66,400 vehicles in August, a growth of 4.2 percent. The BMW brand sold a total of 85,003 units in August for a total growth of 11.1 percent. Mercedes-Benz reported sales of 89,100 units in August thanks to the brand new 2008 C-Class, for an increase of 9.1 percent.

    But taking into account BMW’s MINI brand, which had a growth of 24 percent in demand, BMW reported overall vehicle sales of 99,755 units for a gain of 12.9 percent. Even when you take into account Mercedes Car Groups Smart brand sales, Mercedes sold only 96,200, making BMW the largest luxury auto maker in the world

    “We have undertaken to achieve sales growth in 2007 in the upper single-digit percentage range. We are well on the way to meeting this objective,” Michael Ganal, BMW’s head of sales and marketing, said in a statement.

    Even Rolls-Royce, after reporting poor sales over the last couple of years, increased sales by 15 percent, selling 459 cars in the first half of 2007.

    BMW has grown 7.1 percent with 952,929 units sold in the first half of 2007. Not to mention the 1-Series coupe goes on sale in Spring of 2008.


    link title

    (My only criticism would be that the numbers include MINI, which I do not consider any kind of luxury car whatsoever, and which I have little regard for anyway... due to a personal nightmare ownership experience with one of their cars several years ago.)

    Aside from that, it's still a significant achievement!

    TagMan
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    I own a Bimmer and a Mini Cooper (both are flawless and funny to drive). I miss the RR. :P

    Jose
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I'm glad your BMW and Mini have been flawless.

    The Mini Cooper S that I had was a total :lemon:

    Everything imaginable went wrong from major trannny and clutch issues to windshield trim and door handles that would simply fall off. Some issues couldn't even be diagnosed... and they remained a mystery.

    I realize that they can't all be like that or Mini wouldn't be as successful as it is... but nonetheless, I'd never recommend one, given how horrible my experience was... a nightmare beyond imagination.

    A genuine BMW, on the other hand, has my full respect! :)

    TagMan
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    I'm not sure if the lower performers in terms of reliability have major power train issues or electronic glitches.

    Consumer Reports is sure, though; this is based on survey respondent data that is also corroborated by the JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) and other less formal sources. As a brand, MB performed the very worst in CR's survey (just below Land Rover) with an overall corporate reliability rating that was 123% WORSE than average; the worst individual Mercedes model (perhaps the ML) scored just over 200% worse than average. As I looked over the reliability ratings for individual Mercedes models, I noticed that nearly all of them have had significant issues (to varying degrees) between 2001-2006 with their transmissions (powertrain), electrical systems, climate control systems, suspensions, brakes, body hardware, power equipment, and audio systems; this is not simply about brake dust and cupholders, as a few in the media have erroneously suggested. Thankfully, engine problems appear to be relatively infrequent.

    One can criticize CR's methodology until blue in the face (and I am not at all accusing you of this), but their findings agree with the findings of many other sources. Although MB is not at the very bottom in every survey of long-term reliability, it occupies the lower third of practically all such surveys of long-term reliability (longer than a measly 90 days). It should be painfully clear that the problem lies with Mercedes-Benz and NOT with the messenger.

    Mercedes has been improving recently, and may finally return to its previous position of glory in the reliability arena.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I must have been hung over from too much rum cake! :shades:

    My infatuation with the EX V6 Honda Accord is officially over.

    Setting my sights on a 2 year lease of a 335i coupe or sedan.
    Probably the sedan, because of all the spousal luggage. :(

    Driving the 545i has been too much fun for me to be neutered by the likes of an Accord.

    I only have room for one vehicle so I have to make it the one offering maximum fun with some practicality.

    As our wise philosopher Tony would say, "life is short."

    Might as well keep driving one of the best. The 335i should surely be that! :shades:
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    There ya' go! ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    The epiphany occurred this morning. I was driving around some curved roads in my community going my usual 15 mph over the limit, give or take, (alone of course) when I realized how much fun I was actually having.

    The 335i should be as good or dare I say even a better driver than the 545i.

    All I want is for the fun to continue. ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    And, as we all know, you never change your mind. ;)

    So... the 335i will prevail.

    Actually, I'm envious... the 335i is one of my favorites.

    And, I am VERY glad you will be sticking with your favorite marque... BMW!!!

    All I want is for the fun to continue.

    And, no doubt, it will!

    So... when does all this happen?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    "When does all this happen?"

    Ahh! That is indeed the problem.

    When the 2008 335i comes out, I will drive both the sedan and coupe.

    Then all I can do is wait until next summer ... which isn't all that bad really because it will allow the initial "2008" excitement to die down a bit.
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    ...going my usual 15 mph over the limit

    Humorous line. :D

    So is that 45 in a 30?

    Man, you will have even more fun with the 335i and save a couple hundred dollars a month in the process (versus the 545i)!
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,582
    My infatuation withe the EX V6 is officially over.

    Oh, thank goodness. It was really close there for a while.

    (Not that there is anything thing wrong with it (the Accord).
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Absolutely correct! Very good! :)

    "45 in a 30."

    Actually where I live, the "slow" golf carts are souped up to do 30. Virtually everyone here ignores the limit. Never any authority figures here anyway. The attitude of "The Law" must be "if they want to kill themselves, let 'em!" No young kids allowed here.

    You know what? After living here for 11 years with all of us driving like maniacs, I haven't seen or heard of one accident!

    I figure $585 for the 335i ( 2 year lease) vs $721 for the 545i ( 3 year lease) after tax.

    You know you can flirt with $53k MSRP for a 335i if you go overboard with the options.

    Imagine ... almost $53k for a 3 Series!!

    YIKES!! :surprise:
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Some of you folks have got to stop me whenever I start posting like that.

    I beg you! :blush:
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,582
    Some of you folks have got to stop me whenever I start posting like that.

    I beg you!


    Whew, fortunately you broke that dangerously high fever. Glad you're feeling better. Watch those spicey foods.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    That cold clammy sweat brought me back to my senses. Heh! Heh!

    Looking forward to driving the 2008 335i- the same as the 2007 version, no doubt, with another color or two thrown in.

    In my research, one guy says that the new twin-turbo 335i actually performs better than the M3 of a few years ago.

    Watch out golf carts! :surprise:
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I found out on another forum that a BMW dealer in California, who has never been wrong on such insider things, says that next summer BMW will be sending over 2 diesel models: the 335d and an X5d. Both vehicles will have the same twin-turbo diesel engines. (This info is not gospel. We will have to wait patiently for BMW's official announcement; although the guy has been a reliable source.)

    Sure hope the diesel fuel situation improves near me. If not, I will just have to settle for the plain ol' ornery 335i.

    It's okay. You don't have to send me sympathy cards. :)
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi H

    I guess I can drop the Mr. H now that your `fever` has brokem :) It has been nip and tuck with your decision, and I personally am glad you are still `Following the River`...As I`m sure you have read my own tribulations, I too may go from the a8 to the bmw 5..My wife`s station wagon get over thirty mpg , around seventy five mph, so your thought on the diesel may not really get you that much more, and believe me when I say --the diesel pump is no fun-- I have faith in you Tony
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Hello Tony.

    Maybe the old diesel pumps weren't fun but the new ULSD fuel is quite different. One guy said it smells like booze.

    Looks like the 335i for now. Probably in sedan form.

    Drive the 535i if you can. It's supposed to be almost as fast as the 545i. The 20-way adjustable comfort seats are the best seats I have ever sat in in any vehicle. Plenty of room.
    However, the interior is not up to the A8 standard. Once you drive one, like most of us, you will quickly forget about the interior. :)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    "45 in a 30."

    Actually where I live, the "slow" golf carts are souped up to do 30.

    Mr H... sir... I have gone to great lengths to consider this situation. Apparently 30 mph is the limit, and the BMW continues to get you in trouble as you easily go 45 in the 30 zones.

    However, to your great fortune, the golf carts you mention are souped up and will go the 30 mph speed limit, without the risk of a ticket. And, of course, a souped up vehicle is your kind of vehicle... and since the risk for a speeding ticket would be eliminated, it is a foregone logical conclusion that you should buy the souped up golf cart as your next vehicle. :shades:

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Anyone know just when the GL or Q7 diesels might be available in 50-state-legal form? Will it be fall of 2008 or before then or after?

    I'm wondering if I should go with something less-fuel efficient but roomier and more reliable before then (the LX570 which is supposed to be out early cy2008) or just wait.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Funny!

    You know, Tagman, I tried to have my golf cart upgraded with a more powerful motor, but was told there wasn't much that could be done with my cart and that I needed to shell out for a new golf cart. I'm thinking about it as mine only goes 15 mph max. and I am constantly being tailgated by the other golf cart speed demons. :surprise:

    PS: I stumbled upon a site (Map Quest gas prices) that lists diesel stations throughout the country. According to them, there is a diesel place 4 miles from my house. I will investigate today to see if it's really there (an area I rarely visit).

    If it is true that a 335d will be introduced here by September, 2008 and with a diesel station confirmed to be not too far, I would be wildly interested in leasing a 335d. :)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Anyone know just when the GL or Q7 diesels might be available in 50-state-legal form? Will it be fall of 2008 or before then or after?

    I'm wondering if I should go with something less-fuel efficient but roomier and more reliable before then (the LX570 which is supposed to be out early cy2008) or just wait.


    The rumor mill is running wild on the diesels, but when you sift through it all, it looks like only a few diesels will trickle in in early '08, such as VW models. Mercedes has announded the E-Class BlueTec as well. Later in '08 the wave of diesels should start, including some SUVs that might be of interest to you.

    As for me, I have grown tired of waiting so long. That's why I went with my GTI until something more suitable comes along. Besides, it's great on gas mileage anyway, so there's really no big problem in that department... and I'm really enjoying driving it!

    Now, when it comes to the Mercedes GL... it could be a while for the 50-state version, perhaps late in '08, if we are lucky. I have decided to look at the GL550 next week with my wife. They have a silver one with black interior, loaded, and with rear-seat entertainment coming in (with my name already on the reserved list). I think it will be a gorgeous, fully loaded SUV that should work just fine until the diesel comes along. In fact, if you are thinking of waiting until Spring for the LX570, the new GL550 is available now, (and much nicer than the previous GL450). You should take a look! I'll bet there's a good chance I'll have one within a week or so.

    Another rumor on the GL diesel is that there will be two versions. The first is the V6 BlueTec, but then there is supposedly a V8 "Vision" BlueTec to come later. That's the one that I would trade-in the GL550 for, if it made enough sense.

    In the meantime, other manufacturers are about to introduce other hybrid and diesel alternatives in their SUVs, such as Porsche and Audi... and the Frankfurt show is an indication that there are some interesting powertrains to come in the future.

    I agree with you that waiting sucks. For me, as I said, I'm not waiting any more. I'll buy what is currently available, and then when a good diesel (or even a hybrid, if it's awesome enough) finally becomes available, then I'll consider buying it.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    According to them, there is a diesel place 4 miles from my house. I will investigate today to see if it's really there (an area I rarely visit).

    That would be awesome. Please let us know about that later today!

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Preliminary investigation:

    Sure enough, 4 miles away, a Hess station with a big sign indicating 3 grades of gas plus diesel (diesel priced at $3 which is a dime above premium). However, when I drove up to several of the pumps, all I saw was "regular", "intermediate" and "premium" gas.
    No diesel.

    Am I missing something? Do I need to lug the diesel gallon jars up from the cellar? :surprise:

    Perhaps one or two pumps that I didn't check out may also have diesel? There were around 10 pumps and I drove by 6 of them.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Yes, you really do need to check all the pumps. That's the way it is here at the stations that carry diesel. Often there is only one pump that has a diesel selection available... so if you don't look carefully, you'll miss it.

    Also, if you need to, you could as an attendant or cashier where the diesel is.

    Sounds like your first "drive by" was just a bit too casual.

    Good luck on round two. :)

    edit: if there is in fact diesel, try to determine what grade it is... for example if they are already dispensing ULSD or not.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    With the exception of one or two posters, most here on this forum realize that the LS600hL's fuel economy isn't all that much better than the LS460L. A luxury car marketed as a hybrid should achieve serious fuel efficiency, not just a token few miles per gallon advantage.

    Leave it to Mercedes to take the luxury car to REAL fuel-efficiency, not just hype.

    Presenting the F 700 concept car, utilizing its innovative DIESOTTO and hybrid drive. This powertrain will achieve 44 mpg!!!

    This incredible new F 700 Concept car will make its debut at the Frankfurt Motor Show.

    image

    image

    This F 700 is likely to be a Lexus LS600hL DESTROYER... delivering twice the gas mileage and most likely a thousand times better looking.

    I can't wait to learn more about this F 700, and its powertrain... because I think it is obvious that its powertrain could work its way into other Mercedes vehicles over time... which will further give Mercedes the supreme advantage. :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well, if things go as I hope they might... soon I'll be sitting with the Porsche Carrera S, the Volkswagen GTI, and the soon-to-be-acquired Mercedes Benz GL550 as the only three vehicles in our family... all German engineering, representing some of its very best.

    (A friend wants to buy the Jag, so it will likely be gone soon)

    The only thing that could improve this situation would be the addition of an Audi S-variant or a BMW diesel. ;)

    I wonder if a Lexus fan could possibly understand this wonderful feeling? (just kidding, Lexus fans!) :shades:

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I was also under the impression it would be 2008 before the 570 came out but in talking to my Lexus dealer a few days ago the sales guy said it would be here in Nov, 2007. We'll see I guess.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Mercedes has always made pretty good engines but they are sort of like VW and other German cars....it's the rest of the car you have to worry about. Not to mention the arrogant dealers and second rate service depts. Just too much hassle for me. :lemon:

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    "I wonder if a Lexus fan could possibly understand this wonderful feeling?" Absolutely, Tagman, as I am so happy with our LS460L Touring , LS 430, and the '07 RAV4 V6.

    To each his own. And I am happy for you.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Absolutely, Tagman, as I am so happy with our LS460L Touring , LS 430, and the '07 RAV4 V6.

    A very nice combination. I am happy for you, too.

    And you do know I was kidding, of course.

    There are lots of great cars, and many of them come from Japan.

    The best ones, however, come from Germany! :P Again, just kidding. ;)

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    LOL. You must be somewhere above the level of multi-millionaire to afford the cost and hassle of owning 3 German cars. Not to mention being a touch masochistic. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    the arrogant dealers and second rate service depts

    LOL. You must be somewhere above the level of multi-millionaire to afford the cost and hassle of owning 3 German cars. Not to mention being a touch masochistic.

    houdini - I like your unique sense of humor.

    OK... let me make it clear that I haven't owned a Lexus, but I've been to the dealership to check out cars numerous times and except for the very last visit, they were aweful experiences. The sales people made me (us, when with wife) feel like they were doing us a favor by showing us a Lexus. They had an attitude that their cars were so great, that no comparison was even necessary. They acted like if we weren't going to buy one on the spot, they had better things to do.

    The only reason the very last visit to the Lexus dealership was better was because it turned out I personally know the gentleman who became general manager.

    I've owned a few Mercedes, and I will tell you that the local Mercedes facility is gorgeous and the sales and service processes are absolutely supreme. So, you can take your "lemon" icon and "eat" it, to put it respectfully. :)

    Also, FWIW, the experience my wife has had with the Acura dealership has been absolutely mind-boggling great... quite an unexpected surprise.

    So... if I aquire the Mercedes GL550, the service will be terrific. The Porsche agency is right around the corner from my company, so that is convenient, and I personally know the owners of the VW dealership, so I know I will get good service with the GTI.

    So... your post doesn't really apply to the real-life situation at all.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    I will accomplish my mission next time out.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Since it's only about 4 miles away, you can take your golf cart! ;)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    "You can take your golf cart!"

    Golf carts are not allowed on state roads outside of our community.

    Golf carts may cross state roads at certain points and actually ride parallel to them on service roads within our community.

    Unfortunately, the Hess station boasting cheap imaginary diesel fuel, is outside my community limits.

    Once in a while, some of our more senior residents somehow manage to drive their golf carts on the interstate! :surprise:
    I guess some of them get impatient waiting for their names to be called on the kamikaze pilot employment list. ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I wasn't being serious about the golf cart... just goofing around.

    I totally understand, as I live in a guarded and gated country club, and the carts are not supposed to drive outside of the community . I am surprised by the occassional residents who have actually driven their golf carts to starbucks or for a bite to eat at one of the local food hangouts. Occassionally, there are a few kids who drive them at night and go searching for a ittle "action". One of the most "productive" uses I've seen regarding the golf carts is on Halloween night... those guys that use them can fill up an army trunk full of candy as they zoom from house to house instead of walking.

    However, unlike some of your more senior residents, I have not seen one here show up on the interstate yet. I'm sure it's just a matter of time. :confuse:

    So... the 335d is the latest for you? IF that Hess station sells diesel?

    Man, get yourself back over there and find out once and for all!! :)

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    The sales people made me (us, when with wife) feel like they were doing us a favor by showing us a Lexus. They had an attitude that their cars were so great, that no comparison was even necessary. They acted like if we weren't going to buy one on the spot, they had better things to do.

    Well, if this is true, it was probably because of your attitude. I would give them high marks for being able to spot a "looker" and giving you the bum's rush. :)

    I agree with you on the Acura dealers. They have been most pleasant to deal with. All their records are computerized and when you call them they are able to access your file in seconds. Very professional.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    In my area all the diesel pumps are painted a bright green and they are usually separated from the other pumps. Very easy to spot.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well, if this is true, it was probably because of your attitude. I would give them high marks for being able to spot a "looker" and giving you the bum's rush.

    LOL. Funny. :)

    Actually, you may recall that my wife was genuinely interested in that LX SUV, but the flip-flop rear seat demonstration went horribly wrong... it killed the deal... forever.

    Yeah, those Acura folks got it together. I think they sent a birthday card, too. Now, after my next vacation when I return, if there is a note in the mail from the Acura dealer saying "welcome back"... :surprise:

    TagMan
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