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What is interesting is that a Honda Accord actually sells at a lower price in Canada than the USA.
The Canadian cash incentives for a 07 Accord are the following:
Trading Dollars Factory to Dealer Rebate: $1700
Consumer Incentive Bonus: $1500
Graduate Program: $500
Merchandising Bonus :$300
My niece who recently graduated from Stanford University and now lives in Chicago chose to buy her car in Canada versus the USA(a very unusual situation especially today with our high Canadian $). She had managed to buy a spanking new 07 Accord Sedan Automatic Sedan SE at $3500 below the Canadian Wholesale price. An 18.1 percent discount from Canadian MSRP!
Who was it that introduced BMW into this argument
You cited that article as proof that Japanese automakers enjoyed their success only because Yen was cheap: the moment Yen went up, their stock prices went down. Well, guess what, the same evidence (stock performance when Yen goes up) and logic would lead to the conclusion that BMW is even more dependent on cheap Yen: while Japanes carmaker stocks declined 4% (14% in Yen term - 10% appreciation in Yen itself), BMW stock declined over 14% (Euro itself declined on top of stock decline in Euro terms). Goes to show that the data does not prove your point at all. That's why I wrote, "the interpretation is wrong."
Of course, if dependablity and being midsize are important, the Accord is a good deal. I remember the days back in the late 90's, when Accord V6 EXL cost about $400/mo . . . and was under serious consideration because the repair bill on my 5 series back then ran just about that much every month.
That is a pretty good description of the readership of
New Yorker, the magazine in which the article was originally published.
The pschobabble in the article is so typical of the New Yorker magazine. I have friends who are subscribers of the magazine, who used the word SUV like a cusword . . . until their little FWD wagon got high-entered and stuck in a snow storm up in Maine. Engineers and bean-counters have a long history of being surprised by the consumers. That's why we have a relatively free market place . . . if the whole world really worked according to the plans of engineers and bean-counters all the time, there would be no need for the market place; the engineers and bean-counters could be dressed up in bureacratic garbs and put on a pedastal . . . oh, wait, that's exactly the paradise on earth that New Yorker contributors want.
Back in the real world, the original station wagons, with proportions approximate today's SUV's, were the most popular vehicles, long before government regulations messed with car designs, and long before GM came up with the idea of "longer, wider and lower" cars to entice the "insecure, vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, who are frequently nervous about their marriages, and who lack confidence in their driving skills." Why? because it makes sense to have a car that one doesn't have to crouch into, and one that can carry a lot of cargo for the given foot print. It hardly matters what name it is calle. If government red tapes manadates that such a vehicle has to be marketed as a truck, the consumers would simply buy such a "truck."
BTW, the origial Macintosh did make very successful re-emergence in new packages, not once but twice: Mac Classic, and Palm Pilot. In contrast, some of the engineers' elegant brainchildren, such as Lisa and Newton, proved disasterous failures.
It's pretty funny how the article talks about a Camry being "nimble" . . . that being an article written in January 2004, long before the latest generation of Camry came out with a modicum of handling prowess. I wonder if the author puts on even 5000 miles in his car, assuming he has one.
If it is too good to be true, it probably is. While a bigger vehicle is not always the safer vehicle, the correlation between safety in collision and vehicle weight is well-founded in statistics. The lighter vehicle simply experiences much greater decellearation in a collision. Whether that decellearation leads to injury to the occupant is dependent on safety equipment such as airbags, seat belts etc.. Therefore, for cars equipped with comparable safety devices, the occupants in the heavier car still has better safety.
"Smart" incorporates rigid frames that are designed to "activate" crumple zones of the cars that it collides with; i.e. mooching off other cars' crumple zones because it is simply too small to have enough of its own. That theft works okay so long as it collides with another car with substantial crumple zone, such as an S class . . . in fact making the S class suffer really bad to the untrained eyes (cars fold in a collision so the occupants' flesh doesn't have to do the energy absorption; a car like S class being dented badly in a collision is actually doing its job). If the collision is with solid concrete barriers, trees, or another "Smart," it would be quite a different story.
The Smart has a special protective cage that does indeed use some of the opposing vehicle's absorbing energy zone, but all cars in head-on collisions, share some of each others crumple zones.
But placing a Smart car in a crash against a solid concrete barrier at 70 mph,, your inference that it is too small to handle it is "dead wrong". Here's the "living" proof:
link title
TagMan
Impressive.
Regards,
Jose
They are estimated from my own counting of miles, time and gallons between two consecutive tank fillings. USA units.
The riding was on highway, slowly crossing 6 toll gates and with two physiological short stops. Two adult people. Luggage for one week (two cases). From see level to 2000 feet and then to see level again. No winds.
Averaqe speed: 78 mph,
Cruising speed: 85-90 mph,
Ocassional max. speed: 100 mph.
Consume: 49 mpg.
It seems that the engine has beautifully broke in with age! (42 months, 16000 miles)
BTW, the average highway/road-mpg-efficiency of this car along its 3.5 years is 32% better than that of my previous gasser car (Citroen) along its entire life. Different cars, but similar driving habits. Again, my own calculation.
Jose
I believe the cops around here can detect your detectors as well. Back in the 80's, my brother's was stopped by the police while he was not speeding. They just wanted to confiscate his Radar detector. :surprise:
Frivolity at it's best. MAN, I wish I made that kind of money!
Also Southwest is generous with frequent flyer tickets, that helps!
A stock 2002 Lexus GS 430 with the 17" wheel/summer tire package.
I got pretty much the same car. It also does the job amazingly well with my two miles commute to work and sometimes to the driving range. I still like the car very much with its superb ML stereo and a refined/tasteful interior. Just like you, I rarely have the opportunity to open-up the power with this car since Toronto streets are congested and full of police (just ask Dewey). With the RX taking the family hauler role (at least until the new LX arrives), I found myself tempted to replace the GS with something new, but the trouble is that I can't find anything comparable for less than CAD 70K. With my GS fully paid for, I often wonder what if I just modify the suspension bits so that it drives like a new/different car and call it a day.
Ouch!
Being caught today with a radar will trigger a fine for $1,000. But what worries me most are the potential insurance premium hikes that can result from such a confiscation.
Evidently all Japanese automakers had benefited greatly these past few years from a weaker yen
Your interpretation of my statement:
You cited that article as proof that Japanese automakers enjoyed their success only because Yen was cheap.
Your interpretation is definitely a misinterpretation.
Wall Street Journal's interpretation that the yen helped Japanese automakers is not a misinterpretation. And the following view presented in The Financial Times is also not a misinterpretation:
True, the Japanese are more efficient producers, but a weak yen over the past few years has helped their cause.
Historically, there is a strong correlation between the volume of exports from Japan to the US and the yen/dollar exchange rate. Over the last 15 years there have been two periods of prolonged yen strength versus the dollar. The most marked was the two years before 1995, when the dollar fell to Y80. Over that time the number of cars offloaded at US ports almost halved to around 80,000 vehicles a month. Imports from Japan also flagged between 2002 and 2004, the previous period of yen strength.
Honda’s earnings per share, for example, would fall by about a third should the dollar fall from Y120 to Y100.
Psychobabble?
So according to you the following is psychobabble:
Fatality statistics
Viewpoints from a Consumer Union engineer (Consumers Report)
Views from top auto execectives
Views from auto engineers
Findings from internal industry market research
Finding from auto consulting firms
If you consider the above perspectives as psychobabble than I have nothing more to say to you.
Oh and by the way the article was also published in Schiffer's Insurance Observer during September 2005. A publication that is not at all renowned for its psychobabble.
Speaking of the Newton... Other than its astronomical price (to me, anyway, at the time), why was it such a failure? I thought it was a wonderful idea and I wanted one despite not having a real need for one. Though, admittedly, the only "research" I ever did of it was on a segment of "Beyond 2000." (Anybody remember that show; the ancestor of "Beyond Tomorrow?" Whatever happend to Henry Tennenbaum, anyway?)
Henry Tenenbaum joined KRON channel 4 in San Francisco in January 1992 as a reporter and commentator, focusing primarily on the quality of life here in California.
Personally, I don't care for his reporting style at all. IMO, he's kind of strange.
TagMan
GM reported an increase of over 5% on demand for their new product and has gained momentum for large vehicles on the back of new lower fuel prices.
Nissan posted an even greater increase of 6.3%, no doubt helped by the new Sentra, Versa, and Altima and freshened '08 Titan, Pathfinder, and Armada lines.
Conversely, and more interesting than the winners were the losers in sales.
Toyota, unexpectedly and to the shock of even the most optimistic broker and analyst, reported an almost 3% loss in sales, in addition to the losses in July. And this is on the heels of Toyota offering unprecedented-for-Toyota cash and finance incentives. The Tundra line is not doing as expected for Toyota in terms of sales figures, along with the bread and butter Camry. And some analyst have even went so far as to say Toyota will have a rough September just as well.
But even more interesting than that is the losses at Ford. 14.8% is what Ford reported in overall sales losses. Even with a slew of '08's available in August- Taurus and Taurus X, new Super Duty, Edge among others- the company struggled to sell. Most of Ford's North American product lines lost sales.
This is all to say that the auto market is in really rough shape when Toyota posts losses for two months straight. There is simply no way to put it when the company experienced robust growth last year.
GM, OTOH, is really putting it's plans to recover in to motion. Much unlike Ford's "Way Forward", GM throwing money into several products is really showing. With cars like the GMC Acadia/Saturn OUTLOOK/ Buick Enclave, the new GMT-900 full-size trucks and SUV's, and even specialty cars like the Solstice/Sky and Corvette, the company is really showing that they can compete with the best of them. I'm not a GM convert due to some old issues(Tag and I had the similar issues with the Denali's), but I must say I admire GM for the momentum and effort they've put into the company and continuing to fix problems that have plagued it for the past 3 decades. The products really do speak for themselves.
Ford however, needs a complete scrub-down. Besides selling off money-pit ventures that they can't afford like Aston and LR-Jag, in other suggestions? Poor Ol'Henry must be about 30 feet under by now from rolling over in his grave so many times.
Mark my words... GM is on its way back!!
TagMan
TM
I remember happening upon an accident once where the front of the car was hardly damaged, however, the occupant was quite dead.
I think the Smart car is, in fact, a stupid ugly little car and I can't imagine anyone buying one. By the way, I could be wrong, but that solid barrier looked to be slanted just a bit so as to avoid a direct hit.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I thought the car did remarkably well.
That doesn't make me a buyer.
TagMan
You are in pretty serious danger from your coffee cup and labrador if you have a high speed frontal collision.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
My niece was offered a Toyota Camry V6 Se Automatic for $500 below the Canadian Wholesale price. That is a double digit discount off the MSRP Camry price. Toyota is beginning to feel the heat from the special Accord deals That is not a good sign for such a recent model like the Camry. In addition to the USA, Toyota sales also dropped in Canada.
Fortunately for the Camry hybrid it is the Canadian and Provincial Government that is subsidizing its price with tax incentives ( a total of $2K) and as a result Toyota does not have to discount theses hybrids heavily. I managed to get only a $1K discount a year and a half ago when the hybrid Camry was not even available on the lots. But the trunk space was a deal breaker.
In Canada both the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry are compelling buys considering their high reseales. If you sell them in 3 years there is not much depreciation involved when you consider these great new price deals(assuming ofcourse their high resale values will be maintained in upcoming years).
I concur, Sir!! :shades:
As fast as the dealers get them, they may sit for a week at the longest or they're already spoken for by the time they get there.
A concept model which GM will unveil in two weeks at the Frankfurt Motor Show will start two years of durability and quality testing at the beginning of next year, according to GM chief engineer Frank Weber, who says GM has some 600 engineers worldwide dedicated to developing the E-Flex system which will power the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid and this new vehicle.
The car on show at Frankfurt will be Astra-size and powered directly only by an electric motor, using its 1.3 litre diesel as a generator to recharge the car’s lithium-ion battery when it runs low, and extending the battery’s normal 40 mile range to nearly 500 miles without a fuel fill-up or a battery recharge. Full charge time is three hours.
“This has extremely high torque characteristics,” said Mr. Weber of the vehicle, “similar to what you would get from a V6 engine, and it is available from zero revs.”
In terms of running costs he said that the E-Flex would work out at €1.50 (£1.07) per 100 km (62 miles) against €6.84 (£4.90) with a conventional diesel-engined car.
This is work in progress, however. According to Weber the system works in computer simulations, but the real test will come when the trial vehicles take to the road next year.
http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/30-08-07_9
AMAZING! Especially for a BMW 5 series.
Even if those are imperial gallons that is mileage over 40 US MPG!
Great accomplishment indeed. Congratulations Jlbl.
If I wind up buying one, I would spend the $3k for the Brembos. A wise investment.
Thanks for the idea.
OUCH!
A loaded V6 Honda Accord with all the toys and Brembos will approach the price of a spartan non-optioned BMW 328i.
In this case I would stick with the product from Sparta where good brakes is not an option.
I prefer to get the non-optioned better car than the fully optioned car that is not as good.
I enjoy my leatherette seats. I am a born-again Vegetarian who doesnt believe that my butt is worth the slaughter of innocent animals--well at least that is my exucse (in fact it is a lie) for being too cheap and not spending the extra money on the leather option. I spent it instead on the Sport Package.
Dewey - before the folks in India recruit you to honor the sacred cow, I strongly suggest that you take the family out to a good steakhouse tonight. Order up a couple of premium ribeyes, medium rare or medium, and some big baked potatoes loaded with all the fixins, and maybe some garlic bread and a nice garden or caesar salad. You and the wife should wash it all down with a couple of your favorite beers, or a great Califonia Cabernet Sauvignon such as Silver Oak, from our wonderful Northern California Napa Valley.
This should help you appreciate that you are a carnivor, and not feel so guilty about being your natural self... of course, everything in moderation is best.
Hopefully, the restaurant will seat you on leather seats so you can be comfortable. And, of course, make sure you and the wife wear your most comfortable leather shoes.
TagMan
LOL. Don't forget there would be no such thing as a cow if we didn't enjoy eating and wearing various parts of them. Help those cattle achieve their biological goal!
You`l void your warranty(?)...You probably just want a change on the inside..I am now thinking if bmw improves the inside appearance.Maybe I`l trade my car on a five and then every two years swap with my wife so we have a new one every two years....Just think how much you are saving only having to have one car
Of course all this talk is quite hypothetical. I have been known to change my mind.
I was thinking out loud if I buy a new Accord, not lease. I would upgrade the brakes to Brembos.
I will see one up close next week.
Driving up in the 545i, they will probably think I am
Mr H. Honda.
CEO,NA
Let's not go there; it really isn't a subject that should be debated here.
I am pretty sure CEO of Honda NA drives a Honda (or Acura). I wouldn't be surprised if it's a RL.
The new Honda Accord does look like a poor man's 5-series. It may be the closest in terms of performance to the 5 series out of all midsize sedans as well.
Let's not go there; it really isn't a subject that should be debated here.
So sorry, as I never intended to debate it, or make it a big deal at all... and if in ANY way I somehow offended anyone, my apologies.
Since you bring it up, I will say that under no circumstances, do I have any objection or ill feelings to those that choose to be vegetarians... some of my very best friends are vegetarians. It is a personal choice.
But, frankly, not one of them has ever had any problem with lightly kidding around about it... any more than they call me a cave man or barbarian when I eat a good steak. They also warn me that I am clogging my arteries, and they might be right! And, to accomodate my vegetarian friends, I've gotten very good at grilling vegetables and "garden burgers" on my outdoor grill. I enjoy them (the grilled veggies) myself from time to time.
And most importantly, like most normal folks, vegetarians also have a good sense of humor, Pat, and any inference that they don't is probably more insulting to them.
Anyway, it was all in fun, but consider the topic totally dropped.
TagMan
The guy may have an RL and a V6 Accord somewhere in the back of one of his garages, but I'm sure in the front you will find Porsches, Maseratis, etc; ... and perhaps a 545i just like poor ol' mammal-eatin' me.
Well Tagman there is no better artery anti-clogging fluid than a glass of Silver Oak Califonia Cabernet Sauvignon.
Keep up the drinking and you will make your doctor proud.
Red wine is a particularly rich source of antioxidants flavonoid phenolics, so many studies to uncover a cause for red wine's effects have focused on its phenolic constituents, particularly resveratrol and the flavonoids. Resveratrol, found in grape skins and seeds, increases HDL cholesterol and prevent blood clotting. Flavonoids, on the other hand, exhibit antioxidant properties helping prevent blood clots and plaques formation in arteries.
Ahhhhhhhhh, Dr. Dewey... I am in heaven knowing that our wonderful California Napa Valley red wines are the best antidote for the steaks I eat.
Thanks, and I'll consider that your official prescription!! :shades:
Pardon me, as I'm off to the wine cooler to pick out a nice bottle of Merlot. (Heck with the gym)
BTW, Califonia's Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon is one of my all-time favorites... I've visited the winery for some "taste-testing", and purchases, of course... makes for a great Sunday drive, too.
TagMan
Interesting. Were you one of the first in your area to experience the original LS 400? If so, what other vehicle(s) did you have prior to or at the same time as that purchase?
Put me on that list. It's been interesting watching a couple of my kids do one or more of the variations on the vegetarian "journey."
It's a lifestyle thing. The elder became a lawyer & is (gasp) no longer pure. He drives a Dinan M3.
The younger would own a hybrid, if she could afford one.
I think there's a lesson here, but as Pat has pointed out, we shouldn't seek it.
The interior is actually what tipped the scales in its favor over the BMW 5-series of that era, but I still really like the prior-generation 5-series. The interior of that GS just feels so right to me and the ML is a special gift.
I often wonder what if I just modify the suspension bits so that it drives like a new/different car and call it a day.
That's why I mentioned "stock" in my post; I have and still continue to consider some light and inexpensive mods for my car. There are numerous aftermarket parts for our vehicle and there are dozens of threads on the ClubLexus.com forums that describe some of the most popular mods.
It is interesting that you were also considering the Camry Hybrid, because I am considering that car and the Toyota Prius for my next purchase, among other vehicles. The perfect vehicle for me would be a moderately-priced ($20K-$45K) hybrid coupe, but the chances of such a vehicle being offered in the next 5 years are less than miniscule. So I must choose between a coupe (BMW 1 or 3-series, Audi A5, Infiniti G35, Honda Accord) or a hybrid (Toyota Camry or Prius) for my next vehicle. Since my desire for more efficient vehicle operation outweighs my desire for the more intimate cabin of a coupe, I am more likely to trade in my car for a hybrid vehicle than I am for a coupe. Unfortunately, my very next vehicle probably will not be a Lexus simply because they do not currently offer a vehicle that successfully meets either of those needs for me; I will be back soon after that situation is rectified, though.
In any event, I don't see myself trading out of my car just for another conventionally-powered sedan that has far more room than I actually need (my rear seat looks like it was just unwrapped from transport and my trunk is almost never filled).
Not a BMW among them.