By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
There is even a fantastic website for all our favorites, http://www.vacuumwizard.com/
LOL, sorry, just had to...
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
LOL. Well stated... and given that a car company could be interested in buying the award, and given that such an act would be inappropriate, and we have no way to prove such behavior, we can surely state and agree that a car company would be interested in winning the award.
TagMan
1. Someone like yourself would NEVER think to like a publication like CR just because of the way it agrees with your views!
And...
2. All of the men out there that drive a Boxster can now appreciate that your post has emphasized that is is a well-known ladies' car... that ought to provide you with a genuine opportunity to bond with all of those guys! Perhaps we should re-post it on the Boxster thread?
Kidding, of course... funny post!
And... yes, CR should be relegated to the outhouse... we definately agree on THAT, even if you were being sarcastic, which we all know you would never do... afterall, that's MY specialty!
TagMan
TM
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
LOL! How about dish washer enthusiast monthly? Is there one of those as well?
It's not in vogue any more.
I have moved on to Squeaky Clean. Quite an excellent read. They introduced me to the sportiest dish washer I've ever owned, a Mielé. It cleans at a rate of 3PPM (plates per minute)! And it's quieter than a Lexus LS460!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Speaking of Luxury appliances, I see you've cleverly navigated from the Lexus LS, the highest representation of luxury appliance known (
Quite a stretch for the Luxury Lounge.
TagMan
Esf, you cannot deny you are not a German-machine fan!
Regards,
Jose
This news should help reduce some of the Audi bashing, as this sales data speaks well for Audi, and it is not unexpected from my perspective, as I posted early in the year that Audi was in the beginning of a significant sales ascention in the U.S. market.
This is in contrast to what will happen to Jaguar, IMO.
Audi 2007 Sales Data
TagMan
Ouch! Tangled with words. Double negative there. You cannot deny you are a German-machine fan!
Jose
Here's an interesting British brand survey:
Lexus tops list of brands that don't match image
by David Tiltman Marketing 10-Dec-07, 14:00
LONDON - Lexus has been named Britain's most disappointing brand in a survey of brand advocacy published exclusively in Marketing this week.
The Toyota-owned car brand came bottom of a survey comparing the perceptions of 150 brands with actual customer experience.
The Promise Index, a survey carried out by brand agency Promise, asked consumers to rate brands by image and experience. The difference between the two scores indicates the 'promise gap' - a sign of how well brands live up to their reputations.
link title
1. Toyota - 63.9 - Who woulda thunk!
2. Lexus - 63.2 - Ditto.
3. Honda - 60 - I’d love to see the breakdown for the models. My hunch is that the CR-V and the Accord were the top two.
4. BMW - 56.5 - BMW has improved seven percentage points since 2003. Despite their models' controversial styling and iDrive, customers keep coming back to the roundel.
5. Scion - 56.3 - No three model line-up is as close in demographics and income levels as the xA, xB and Tc. Although I still think the Tc should have been sold as a Celica, kudos to Toyota for ignoring the above stats and releasing three all-new Scions in the next three years.
6. Cadillac - 55.5 - Did J.D. Power do an ajustment for all those new car buyers who died shortly after the survey? In the remarketing industry we get a LOT of Cadillacs and Buicks. Repos are often voluntary, due to the prior owner’s demise.
7. Chevrolet - 55.3 - The Impala, Cobalt, Corvette and Silverado have all done a good job over the past couple of years although only the later two are class leaders. If GM built a minivan that didn’t look like an elongated two-step staircase, Chevy might have been in the top five.
8. Mercedes-Benz - 53.6 - A real shocker. Mercedes-Benz has more lemon law vehicles than all other luxury makes combined (excluding Infiniti). The C, E, and ML classes don’t offer a single class-leading mainstream luxury vehicle.
9. Ford - 53.3 - I don’t see how Ford was able to get here. Oh, wait the F-150 and Mustang! Never mind.
10. Hyundai - 51.6 - Offer an extended warranty, a lineup that's a good match for Toyota and a heavy value quotient and you get a strong repeat customer base. Slam dunk!
I’ll skip the next four (Subaru, Nissan, Porsche, Hummer). I don’t expect these niche players to enter the mainstream markets in the near future. Subaru is planning to go upscale, Porsche will have to deal with VW and Hummer is nothing more than a special vehicle for those who have always ridden in something yellow. Nissan is already on the highway to mediocrity, but that's a topic for another day.
15. Suzuki - 43.9 - Suzuki's notched up a 23 point improvement since 2003. I’ve seen thousands of Aerios, Veronas, Forenzas and Vitaras go through the auction block; Suzuki is the most underrated automaker today. They're pretty much where Hyundai was in 2001, when vehicle quality and dealer development were improving dramatically. By 2010, Suzuki could well be the next Hyundai.
16. Kia - 42.8 - I don’t have as much hope for Kia. It’s not because their products are mostly uncompetitive, or that that their quality is still in the low second-tier. The biggest problem: they’re now Hyundai’s younger sibling. (Kind of like Plymouth in the '90’s.) I don’t see how they can outdo a sister brand that's holding all the cards.
17 thru 21 are not my cup of tea. Too much badge engineering (GMC, Dodge, Saturn) and an SUV [non-permissible content removed] child (Land Rover) whose only fortune in the past 20 years was a brief marriage to BMW. That said, the Caliber would have been a grand slam if gas had gone down to a dollar.
22. Buick - 39.9 - Again, you gotta wonder about the death quotient. Perhaps the Lacrosse really is a dud.
23. Chrysler - 38.2 - Most of Chrysler’s line-up would be close to class leading if it weren’t for the muddleheads at Daimler. I miss the days when Chrysler stood at the forefront of design: the Viper, the LH’s, the early 90’s Ram, etc.
24. Acura - 37.6 - Not a surprising result, given Honda's tendency to leave big gaping holes in Acura's price and market demographics; the RL, RSX, TSX, and MDX appeal to very different buyers. On a side note, I wonder what percentage of these buyers simply decided to buy Accords the next go round.
25. Lincoln - 37.3 - Who cares? Billy really screwed the pooch with this brand.
26. Audi - 35.6 - If VW knew how to build cars that didn’t have the long-term durability of a Kia Rio, they'd be the kings of the North American Yuppie market. Instead they offer the worst warranty in the entire industry and electronics that not even AC Delco would have tolerated back in the '70’s.
27. Volkswagen - 35.5 - Why hasn't TTAC pointed out that VW lost over a billion dollars in the North American market last year?
28. Volvo - 35.5 - What do you expect when Ford decides to have the S60/S80 languish for eternity and makes the S40/V50 as tasteless as the lunch buffet at Shoney’s.
29. Saab - 33.4 - Saab should have been axed ten years ago. A month ago I bought a Saab 900 S that was in pristine condition for $1300. It was built in late '95, had the body of a '96, and had been repainted at the factory with a color that was used only for the '97 models. I wonder if Chrysler will be using a similar formula soon.
30. MINI - 32.4 - I hope BMW makes a second model for this "brand." It needs one.
31. Mercury - 31.9 - Everybody’s late aunt had a Mercury. Unfortunately, when you asked her what type of car she had, she'd say, "Blue!” And there you have it: Mercury’s position in today's marketplace.
32. Mitsubishi - 30.5 - This company shouldn’t exist.
33. Jaguar - 29.8 - Ditto.
34. Infiniti - 29.0 - Finally, a study that exposes Infiniti for what it is: a brand dedicated to winning the hearts of enthusiasts and pissing off long-term owners with inferior quality at all levels. If you’ve ever looked at Lexus, BMW and Infinitis at auction, you'd know who invested money in their powertrains and interiors. I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t Infiniti.
35. Pontiac - 27.8 - Cheap plastic doesn’t get you far in life and apparently not in an automobile either. Then again, I’m sure all the Aztek owners went over to Buick.
36. Mazda - 26.8 - The Mazda 3 is supposed to be the class leader. So is the MX-5. The Mazda 6 is one of the few midsized vehicles that isn’t an outright porkster and the RX-8 is a true joy to drive. I think a big part of the disconnect must come from all the ticked-off 626 and Millenia owners.
37. Isuzu - 4.7 - Not even Joe Isuzu can save this company from the GM black hole of brand management. Do they still sell the Ascender and Vehicross?
Source: J.D. Powers’ Customer Retention By Brand
I've seen the loyalty of the customers buying Porsches and I've also seen the profit margins they are posting up.
JD Power, I just never know what to think of this stuff. It seems like such a joke sometimes.
-moo
What better endorsement to a brand when a large numbers of owners choose with their wallets to buy/lease the same brand as the ones they had purchased/leased before.
34. Infiniti - 29.0 - Finally, a study that exposes Infiniti for what it is: a brand dedicated to winning the hearts of enthusiasts and pissing off long-term owners with inferior quality at all levels. If you’ve ever looked at Lexus, BMW and Infinitis at auction, you'd know who invested money in their powertrains and interiors. I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t Infiniti.
A bit harsh! But there is no denying that the Infiniti retention rate is awful.
MINI - 32.4 - I hope BMW makes a second model for this "brand." It needs one.
An amazingly high figure when you consider so many would buy the same generation of the exact model as their old one.
The JDP retention rate also supports my suspicion.
My special ordered 2008 LS460L has just arrived at the dealer. I actually drove it around the dealer in the snow covered side streets earlier this afternoon even though it had just gotten off the truck. Wow! What a car. Man, that baby is quiet. I intentionally pressed on the brakes to see how it would handle on the slippery streets and I was pleasantly surprised. Let me put it this way. It is a lot better driving on snow than the LS430 I have been driving since November 2004. I think that one could probably make it through the winter without snow tires if one is a little careful. However, I decided to go ahead and have the dealer install a set of blizzaks. In fact, they only have this one set left. I think this will give me more peace of mind driving in the Midwest winter. I am also purchasing a set of tellios (sp?) wheels for driving with all season tires for about 8-9 months of the year.
ljflx (Len, whereever you are), have you had a chance to try out your LS460L in snow without snow tires? I don't think you have had much snow at all in your area yet. I am picking up my car this late Thursday afternoon. Man, I am looking forward to it. The other good news is that I found a buyer for my 2004 LS430 (custom luxury).
I had a Mielé at my old house, though... now in the nicer place, we have a Kitchen Aid, strangely. It's a good dishwasher, but simply doesn't have the "prestige" or "heritage" of the German model.
LOL.
In a completely unrelated twist... does anybody know where I can get a high-quality aftermarket backup camera, which will be installed at the store? The one in the X5 is a complete joke. I don't think they (BMW) even test their backup cameras before the cars leave the factory. Either that or they just don't care. Worse picture quality than a cheap camera phone.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
What colors and options did you specify?
They're Teleios wheels, BTW, and they're significantly better looking than the standard LS wheels, which I hate. You may as well leave the Teleios rims on all the time and only switch out the tires, because they're both 18s.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Scion? Have they been around long enough to really see if that many customers come back for more? I wonder.
Porsche doesn't count? I'm on my third.
Good for TMC. But, I'll bet big that many of those same folks also are loyal re-subscribers to Consumer Reports.
And BMW drivers know a good thing when they get one.
Mini has a second model about to hit, and a third on the way.
Infiniti? Pitiful.
TagMan
I thought we were talking about Audi here, not VW. Volkswagen quality is still really bad, but it seems to me like Audi has really cleaned up their act with the new generation A4 and A6. I think its bad dealers pushing people away from the brand, not the quality.
Infiniti - 29.0 - Finally, a study that exposes Infiniti for what it is: a brand dedicated to winning the hearts of enthusiasts and pissing off long-term owners with inferior quality at all levels. If you’ve ever looked at Lexus, BMW and Infinitis at auction, you'd know who invested money in their powertrains and interiors. I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t Infiniti.
Infiniti seems to have finally learned their lesson about interiors. I still think that the EX35 is top of the class on the inside. Only Audi may be able to beat them with the Q3, and thats assuming they don't do an A3 style luxury-ish interior for the baby Q.
I would take a G35x Sport over a 335xi, and I'm more than capable of pulling the monthly payments for the 3. I like the Infiniti better. Its electronics are far superior to the 3. A CD changer is so last century, I think I'll just load all of my music on the hdd. Oh the BMW hasn't got that, thats right. With a BMW X-drive car, the "sport" package equates to new wheels and seats. Its fake. There's no actual "sport" there. With the BMW you can have a badly designed keyless ignition, or they'll do it properly, for a lot of extra cash. The Infiniti doesnt waste your time or money with that nonsense. And I think its the better looking car.
I would also take an M45x over a 550xi, mostly because the 550xi doesn't exist.
As much as I like German cars both Lexus and Infiniti have raised the bar with electronics and the integration of them into the car. The crazy key fob on BMW's is a bad example, as well as the hard disc on the LS460 to hold music. This is really one of the reasons I'm considering that car to replace my A8.
TagMan
There is s reason that they are # 1 in resale value.
TagMan
A German car company with Italian reliability becoming number one? Delusional thinking IMO.
VW GTI is a fine and wonderfully fun car. But take a look at the current Jetta and the Passat :lemon: Once these models were quirky sporty fwd models and now they are far less sporty relative to the competition and the Jetta looks like a Corolla wannabe.
VW's resale values are high mainly because many buyers in the resale markets are inexperienced youngsters. VW is popular among the younger generations who are still "wet behind the ears" in terms of knowing the costs of car maintenance. Wisdom and experience transforms inexperienced VW youth into smart elders who buy Hondas and Toyotas instead. That is why VW sales has been stagnant for the last 4 decades while Honda/Toyota sales have been compounding almost exponentially.
The comeback kid story about VW is already a stale four decades old fictionl. I have no time or patience to wait another four decades too see a VW turnaround.
Does that really matter? A sale is a sale regardless who is the buyer.
If I am TMC, your Benjamin is just as good as Bill Gates'.
Good keeps getting better over at Aston Martin, who never seem to tire of making their sports cars faster and faster. The latest in the speed wars from their new headquarters in Gaydon is this adrenaline-dripping special-edition V12 Vantage RS.
Into what could very well prove to be the fastest, hottest Aston Martin yet, the newly independent British automaker has dropped the V12 reactor not from the recently demised Vanquish, not from the road-going DB9 or Bond-tastic DBS derivative, but from the DBRS9 race car. With somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 horsepower (!) pushing 3500 lbs, the V12 Vantage RS is anticipated to clock a 0-60 time in the 3's on its way to a 200-mph top speed. Performance target: Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano. That's highly ambitious, considering that the Fiorano is widely acclaimed as one of the most competent supercars on the planet, but with that kind of juice in such a brilliant package as the Vantage's, it might not be so far-fetched.
At the time of writing, AutoWeek was the only source carrying the information, and we hope to have more details soon on the special Vantage which was unveiled earlier today on the occasion of the company's new design center. Although it was launched as a concept, sources suggest it could very well find its way into limited production and slot into the Aston Martin line-up above the current flagship DBS. We certainly hope so.
One word: AMAZING!!
This could well replace the 599 GTB Fiorano as my number one "unrealistic" dream car.
VW is literally searching at a frantic pace for a factory site in U.S. or Mexico, and will spend a fortune on straightening things out over the next few years.
I'm not expecting them to be number one either, as that is indeed bunk... but I'm on record as saying we will witness a noteable turnaround in about 5 years time.
The upcoming Tiguan SUV is a bit too generic, but it will still, nonetheless help, as it is in the sweet small SUV category. VW diesels will give another boost, and make no mistake that they are well-liked for their diesels... one of the actual hidden reasons for their high resale values is the resale prices of their diesel cars at near ridiculous levels.
Having the younger generation like their vehicles is a good thing... but the retention, as shown by louiswei's post of JD Power stats, certainly needs to improve to keep them hooked. Better tiering of the models will help that, and certainly the reliability needs to also improve.
BTW, regarding the GTI... it is indeed a surprisingly fun car, but it is not a long-term keeper for me. It is only a car that I bought to use until either an acceptable diesel comes along, or some other "gotta have" car makes its debut.
Anyway, do we have a bet?
TagMan
No. It doesn't matter... I wasn't being serious... hence, the wink.
TM
Jose
A 5 year bet :surprise:
OK it's a bet.
Only problem is I have to wait 5 years to boast about my victory.
My choice will not be the sedan but rather the 335I coupe ( or cab if I decide I am prepared to accept the additional weight and lack of trunk space). I think BMW has done an outstanding job on the design of the coupe while the sedan is nothing special. And yes it is an embarrassment that they don't include no charge keyless ignition.
I hope not too many since here are the facts from a very candid Fortune interview with the CEO of Chevron:
The question, then, is how to reduce carbon emissions - a carbon tax, a cap-and-trade system, or something else?
Just to give you an example of how challenging this is, if you took every vehicle off the roads of the world today - all the trucks, all the cars, all the airplanes, all the trains - you would reduce carbon emissions by 14%.
If you took all the power generation off the face of the earth, all the commercial activity, all the residential heating and cooling off the face of the earth and went back to an agrarian society, you still wouldn't cut it by more than 60% or 70%.
FORTUNE
That being said, it is still hard to match the German cars for overall driving appeal and ownership satisfaction.
As time goes by, they all seem to get better and better anyway. (except iDrive, maybe? ...
TagMan
True, the latest knob controlled COMAND system in the S-class has impressive capabilities, especially in Europe where you can get digital TV on it and such. Unfortunately most of their current line up is stuck with the last gen COMAND, which was pretty awful.
I also like the 3 coupe much better than the sedan. I also have to give BMW credit for offering the coupe as 328/335/xi in both auto and manual. There was supposed to be a coupe and convertible version of the IS, but its certainly taking them long enough to get them to market. Want AWD with your IS350? Too bad. There's also a fat chance that the IS coupe, if it ever even shows up, will offer AWD.
I read so much about how the iDrive was hated, when I test drove the 08 models I didn't really see what all the talk was about. I have no idea how the iDrives were in previous years, but I have gotten to really like it in the 08 550i.
I really could care less about an AWD IS350, what I want to see is an IS350 comes with MT. However, given that only 5% of the IS250 were sold with MT I just don't see there is a remote possibility that there will ever be a shift-yourself IS350. If for some reason it does come true then only explanation could be that Lexus is just tired about car mags knocking the IS down due to no manual tranny for the big V6 so to shut them up, because other than that it is really a dumb business decision and financially infeasible for them to offer it.
Lots of fanfare and overt excitement comes from that "small percentage" of actual buyers.. They are the real enthusiasts... an important group, IMO.
TagMan
Publicity and marketing. No.
Financially sounding. Yes.
Lots of fanfare and overt excitement comes from that "small percentage" of actual buyers.. They are the real enthusiasts... an important group, IMO.
True, however, the silent majority is the group that really generates sales. Personally I would like to see a manual IS350 but if I am running Lexus that wouldn't even make into top 10 of my to do list. IMO coupe is more needed than matting a stick with the big V6.
TM
Either way it should be a low priority decision for Lexus, what are much urgent for the IS are: coupes and manual for the IS-F.
TagMan
edit: Yes, I think we making the same point, but I'm on a mobile, and I might have missed a post between replies.
Also true, but it's the loud minority that gets the silent majority in the dealerships. Realistically, who listens to someone singing praises about how much fun an automatic equipped car is when a manual version of said car is available?
True in come cases but I don't think that's the case for Lexus. Each manufacture has its unique way to attract buyers and that's another reason why what works for BMW or Infiniti might not work for Lexus.
Also, for some reason I really don't think the "loud minority" that gets the silent majority into Lexus dealerships are die hand fans who would accept no less than a manual tranny...
Another evidence that I'll bring to this discussion: The manual-equipped, highly sporty IS300 flopped.