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Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
VW has a significantly better global standing, and I'm still waiting for them to extend that notoriety into the US market. The only way to get there is to open an American or Canadian factory.
The best way some cars have gotten popular is through word-of-mouth. If VW cars were more reliable, and owners were telling all their friends, sales would undoubtedly go up. Because right now, they are in danger of being surpassed by Audi, which isn't much of a force in the US market, either.
It's nice to see two gains in a row from Wolfsburg, though.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
How do you know, have you driven them all yet?
I haven't driven any but based on the reviews I read, here is my ranking:
C63 > IS-F > M3 > RS4
C63 > IS-F > M3 > RS4
Well they don't even make the RS4 anymore. They introduced the RS4 cab to get rid of the last of them. The new RS5/4 will probably be best in class, considering how good the last one was. It's just disappointing that Audi apparently thought that they had to cripple the S5 to make the RS model seem more impressive.
The C63 does seem pretty impressive, but I still think the interior is really lousy.
It depends which Benz and which BMW. On the BMW side, I'm a fan of the 335i, and I would definitely take that over a C350. Other than that, I'd rather have a M-B. Assuming it's more than just those two choices though, I'd take an M45x, A6 4.2, or possibly a Jag XF over the E/CLS, and an A8 or Maserati QP over the S-class.
Style wise I like C63's interior best out of them all, follow by IS-F, the new RS4/5, with M3 at the bottom to complete the list.
However, I do agree with you that MB probably should replace the cheapo looking (but it is actually high quality) plastic used for center stack with something else. I would prefer to have a little aluminum touch in that area but at least use the metallic trim instead of just black plastic.
Canadians are flocking to US dealerships because of the low US dollar. I know someone who saved about $30K on a Porsche Carerra S even with paying a 6.1 percent duty.
If the US dollar remains this low I will definitely buy my next car in either New York or Michigan.
Entry: IS > G > 3er > C > new A4
Midsize: 5er > M > RL > GS > E > A6
Fullsize: LS > S > 7er > A8
Compact SUV/CUV: RDX > EX > X3
SUV/CUV: X5 > GL > Q7 > FX > LX > ML > GX > RX
Small roadster: TT > SLK > Z4
Large roadster: SL > 6er > SC
Coupe: 3er > A5 > G coupe
4-door coupe: CS concept (the future 8er) > CLS
As you can see, I am all over the places...
Here's how some of the marques did this November:
Acura -24.9 percent
Lexus -7.8 percent
Audi -1.1 percent
Porsche +1.9 Percent
Infiniti +2.1 percent
MB +3.4 percent
BMW +5.3 percent
Lexus November '07: 24,848 units
BMW '07 up to date: 263,596 units
Lexus '07 up to date: 294,623 units
Close but no cigar yet.
Let's not forget:
Number of models in BMW lineup: 13 (I counted roadster/coupe/convertible as 1 model, if count them separately then the number is 18)
Number of models in Lexus lineup: 8
With the kind of lineup BMW has, if I am running it I'll consider anything less than Lexus' sales number as a failure.
If the latest momenutm continues then I will be smoking my Havanas (legal in Canada) by the end of 2008.
However, when's the last time that Lexus/Toyota just lie there and let others walk all over them? Let's not forget the best selling luxury CUV (and also is the best selling luxury vehicle) will be joining the Lexus lineup next year as the '09 model. Rumor has it that a coupe version of the IS is coming as well.
Oh, and don't forget the new LX. Currently Lexus' SUV/CUV lineup is its weakest link so I have no doubt that over the next couple years, that will be the focus.
LS 460---------88%
M35 rwd-------83
GS 450h-------79
GS 430---------78
MB E TD-------78 Encouraging
M35 awd-------77
M45--------------76
Cad DTS-------75
BMW 5 v8-----75
GS 350 rwd--74
Audi A6-------74
Town car------73
BMW 7--------73
MB S class--73
Audi A8--------72
BMW 5 v6---72
Acura RL-----71
GS 350 awd-70
E Class v8---68
MB cls--------67
E class v6---65
Jag XJ---------65
Cad STS-----64
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
How did the 7 series fare against the LS?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Number of models in Lexus lineup: 8
True! But that is exactly why Toyota engineers visit BMW factories . No company manufactures cars in so many variations in such an efficient manner as BMW does. Satisfying every sliver of a niche is what BMW does best while what Toyota does best is mass produce cars for the largest audience possible in order to maximize their economies of scale (and that includes Lexus with its limited line-up).
I was focusing on luxury cars only. I did only count Lexus vs BMW right (brand vs brand)? If I was trying to count all the models then you are right I should include Toyota/Scion for Lexus and Mini/RR for BMW.
Check my previous post again, I think you mis-read it.
That is exactly why the HELM forum became practically defunct. This forum in fact is to discuss luxury marques which includes all cars within that luxury marque.
If you want to count everything from BMW then you would have to include everything from TMC!!
Look above at the heading: Toyota just like VW just like Nissan are not included in this discussion. Lexus, Audi, Infiniti and BMW are included.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
But I will give Lexus props for at least trying a different/unique design theme.
I think it was really a tough task since the regular IS itself is very good looking already. BMW designers on the other hand had an easier task with the M3.
Front profile looks like a beluga whale: have you seen the last gen Accord, lately I have noticed that it has the same beluga whale design as well. Nothing wrong with it, it's just that the regular IS looks so graceful so the edgy looking IS-F is a little awkward compares to it.
Fender air vent: looks awful from some pictures but looks good in person. Hey, you know what, the Nissan GT-R has the same design as well...
Stacked quad exhaust: Looks unique, hopefully this will become the distinguish look for all the future F-series models.
PS. Road and Track has just road tested the IS-F, generally speaking a very positive review, anyone who is interested should give it a read. 4.4 sec from R&T and 4.2 sec from C&D. Not bad at all.
Is it because Acura says they are?
This forum is simply luxury... and I have understood that to mean luxury where ever it exists in a car. Sometimes that has been stretched here already as we have discussed some pretty basic cars, but I notice that unless the discussion goes on relentlessly, our host has allowed plenty of breathing room here.
Some of you may have inferred that the 3-series BMW is not a luxury car. That's bunk. The MINI, of course, is not... and the 1-series will be determined, because just because it is small, doesn't mandate that it is a non-luxury car. My Porsche is small, but it is luxurious, IMO, especially for a performance car.
According to Forbes and others, the 3-series is indeed a luxury car... not a HELC, but nonetheless, a luxury car. Forbes is not the all-knowing auto dictator, but it is certainly a respected source that has tremendous credibility within many circles.
I certainly believe that when I looked at a 3-series quite recently, it was not the same 3-series that the original car represented. It is an absolutely gorgeous car that has grown and matured, with almost every major luxury option and a very respectable powerplant, and advanced driving dynamics. In the case of the current 3-Series, I absolutely agree with Forbes that it is a mid-priced luxury car.
Any other vehicle out there that is genuinely similar enough to the 3-series, should, IMO, be considered potentially as a car containing enough luxury to warrant at least some reasonable level of discussion.
TagMan
Jose
Ok I am just kidding.
Source: Lexus exceeds LS600h sales target
No wonder the air feels cleaner today , oil prices recently dropped and it's so cold now in Toronto. Thank goodness for this Green Machine called the LS600h.
That miniscule car called the SMART that MB thought would flop in USA? Guess what! MB cannot produce enough of them for all of 2008 based on the high order levels as of Nov. 2007.
And all of this while humungous cob-webbed SUVs are sitting at dealer's lots.
Green is in for both big spending bling seekers and trendy frugal urban types alike.
I am don't like the IS-F at all. The car as a whole has some very impressive numbers, and is fast as anyone would ever need. But as we all know, it isn't just about speed. The interior looks like a cheap low-end Chevy or Ford, and whats with the fake tail pipes? Looks like something these high school kids do to cars to make them look like something they are not. The looks of a vehicle is important, and the appointments and quality build of the interior is of utmost importance... that is where you live. The overall concept is great, yet the finished product is only something a kid could appreciate. :sick:
Fake tail pipes? That's not true, here's an article I wrote about that in my blog, maybe you should give it a read if this is bothering you.
More on the IS-F
Only a kid could appreciate? Let's wait and see what's the average age of those IS-F buyers...
Guess what, according to Road and Track:
After spending half a day lapping around Laguna Seca, we were won over by the car's accurate steering, minimal body roll and outright grip. Its 71.2-mph slalom speed is damn impressive for such a heavy sedan (3825 lb.), eclipsing not only the Audi RS 4 (68.9 mph) but also the Porsche Cayman S (70.6 mph). The 911 Carrera 4S barely edges the Lexus, at 71.5 mph.
Yes and the Prius beats your BMW by 17 points but the Prius is not a luxury vehicle. Anything "green" scores high right now. I guess I don't see your point. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
But remember, the Prius was in a different category.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
As for the tail pipes, you need to read the link I've provided in my previous post. Don't believe everything you read on the internet now a days...
That't right! You can't believe everything you read on the Internet. But seeing is believing. And judging from C&D and Edmunds own test drive of the 2008 IS-F, the quad stacked pipes are indeed fakes, there for only visual purposes. Yes they are attached, but the rear bumper only
Source: Autospies
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
C63 > IS-F > M3 > RS4
my my my my my
MY ranking:
M3 > RS4 > C63 > IS-F
Good day!
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
My rankings...
Entry: 3 > '08 A4 > G > C > IS
Midsize: 5 > E > A6 > GS > M >>>>>> RL
Fullsize: S = A8 > LS > 7
Compact SUV: EX > X3 = LR2 > RDX
SUV: X5 > GL > Range Rover > Q7 > FX > LR3 > ML > LX > RX > GX > QX
Small roadster: Boxster > TT > Z4 > SLK
Upscale roadster: 6 = XK > SL > SC
Coupe: 3 = S5 > A5 = G
Sports car: R8 > all else
There you go.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Nissan GT-R is a sports car... the side vent is a suitably sporty styling cue.
Lexus IS-F is, like the German three, a wolf in sheep's clothing. But Lexus wanted to hold the sheep. Something more subtle would have been appropriate.
And BTW, instead of trying to make excuses for the IS-F's giant hood, compare it to what Audi and Merc did.
Audi got rid of the chain in the 4.2 V8 to fit it in the B6 S4, and the same is true of all B7 S4/RS4 models. They didn't adjust the hood at all.
And instead of making the hood bulgy, Mercedes-Benz simply lengthened it in order to fit the massive 6.2L in there, which is almost unnoticeable.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
BMW created a bump on the hood to fit the V8, which is very noticeable.
Some would argue that is a better execution than the beluga hood but that's purely subjective point of view. Again, I would say that the IS-F looks much better in person than in pictures, and yes that's including the side vent and the hood.
Also, nobody is making a rule that the factory tuner super sedans are supposed to be "wolfs in sheeps' skins" just because the Germans do so. Why can't Lexus creates its own style? This is like the same thing I mentioned again and again, why does Lexus have to make a 3-series, why can't they just make a Lexus IS? Sure they compete in the same segment but Pizza Hut, Domino's and Papa John's also compete in the same segment and their pizzas sure don't taste the same to me...
As for the wolf in the sheep's skin, do you honestly think that's the case with the new C63 AMG. I think MB is saying "let subtle be damned" this time around.
Now let the numbers speak.
Yeah, I would say bad, worse, and worst!
LOL. That's one of the funnier analogies I've seen here in a while.
So... that begs the question... which car is Pizza Hut, which one is Domino's, and which car is Papa John's? :confuse: