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This diesel vs. hybrid argument is getting really old. Let me try to make this as my last contribution to the discussion (no guarantee though because I might jump in anytime when things go out of balanced).
Let me begin with the question: How long has the diesel engine existed and how long has the hybrid technology?
Diesel engine has enjoyed a century's development and technological advancement, hybrid on the other hand has been commercialized for less than 15 years. One is a very mature technology and another is at the beginning stage of its development with the best has yet to come (like LI batteries). Yes, Toyota is delaying the LI battery but anyone with a sensible mind who can analyze knows that it is just a matter of time that LI will be the mainstream batteries for the future hybrids. With that those who of you need humongous trunk will get your wish granted and the benefit doesn't end here. The FE will trump today's hybrid and diesel engines by a long way. Last but not least let's not forget the plug-in. Soon people will be able to travel short distance (~ 15 miles) without using a single drop of gas in a very affordable automobile. That, my friends, is something that diesel can NEVER achieve.
Granted that today many diesel luxury cars are very attractive and seem like a better choice than their hybrid counterpart. Buy them by all means if they set your hearts on fire. However, it is just simply stupid in my opinion to knock on the hybrids just because in some cases that it doesn't measure up to the diesel. Does diesel have any Prius fighter? You don't have to answer this, just think about it...
Again, this is the debate of a highly matured technology vs. a novelty technology that has a lot of potential.
If I am trying to build a football team for the long run do I want Brett Favre or Tony Romo? Hmm...
Well, it had some problems but it is great for highway cruising, fun for twisty mountain roads, transmission is seamless, all 306 horses are peppy and ready to go on a command. The exterior and interior design, fit-'n-finish, material quality are one of the best in the class if not the best, dealership and service experience is just wonderful, so yeah, I guess I can put up with it.
Again, you may not see the beauty in a Lexus beside the reliability/quality factor but that's not the class for everyone else. I might not see what you see in your wife but hey, as long as you are happy, right?
It can seem like that at times... but the dilemma is that the diesels are still to come, and the comparisons will only increase over time, and so will the discussions that will accompany them. So, if you think it is old now... it's probably going to get a lot older... or newer, depending upon your point of view.
When it comes to the diesels... the best is yet to come.
In fact, all the alternative powertrains are relatively new, IMO, and I even include the modern diesels when I say that. And... BTW, yes, the diesels have a Prius fighter. Time for you to Google a bit more.
TagMan
What on earth can you teach me? The statistics proves exactly what I was saying in the first place.
Most those BMW recalls happened in the 90s while most those Lexus recalls happened far more recently. So for a new 08 auto buyer the BMW recalls are hardly relevant since they have declined substantially in number while the Lexus recall figures are far more relevant since they have recently increased in number.
Believe me when I bought my 07 BMW 335i and 06 BMW530xi the fact that there was a 1990 BMW 850i recall had no effect on my decision whatsoever.
This whole discussion about recalls and reliability is nonsensical. As Cdnpinhead had pointed out the reliability differences between most marques are so marginal that using reliability as an important criteria is kind of pointless.
It died because such a slogan would attract primarily philosophers, ivory tower types, Yoga insturctors, Bohemian Cafe conversationalists and various other types of idealists. And how many of those types actually drive BMWs :surprise:
It was quite the scene, man. :shades:
That "ideas" slogan was too "cerebral". BMW's slogan should elicit "visceral passion."
Glad they decided to return to the greatest car slogan ever created:
"The Ultimate Driving Machine"
Perfect!
Trust me, cdnpinhead is not the first one to say that.
Go back several posts then you'll see who's the one first suggested this today.
I'll give you a hint, the poster's name starts with a "L".
TagMan
Actually I was being a bit humorous... or trying to be anyway as it seems there are endless possibilities with these seats. I was referring to the seats in the '08 550i. BTW, I do get comfortable in a number of positions however! :shades:
Lexus owner: "Well, its had some problems, but..." how do you finish that sentence? How do you explain away an unreliable Lexus? What is the quality about the car that makes it worth it? And don't say dealer service.
It just happens that I've narrowed my choice of car down to LS vs S. So my personal take on this is:
First, as regards reliability, JDP IQS put both cars at 4 of 5 stars for 'overall quality - mechanical', so I guess that would be a tie. But that's IQS. I have greater confidence that LONG TERM reliability will be better with the LS, AND that Lexus has a greater commitment to customer satisfaction when there are quality issues, than does MB. I still remember that in the early 90s the old old S class (the tank-like one) had some issues that were ultimately traced to the tires not being able to handle the heavy weight of the car. MB was in denial for a very long time on this. Not sure what the outcome was but there were some court cases. You don't see Lexus owners going to court very often for a defect. For instance with the wind noise issue on the SWB LS, Lexus is replacing windows with laminated glass that would normally be found only on the LWB. Like I said, a commitment to customer satisfaction, and making "right" any quality problems.
Second, I'm not sure I like the "heavy" feel of the S as I drive it. Yes, maybe it does feel like driving around a bank vault!
Third, I'm more of a luxury-leaning guy, and a big part of that to me is QUIET as I drive. The LS has a certain "hushed" quality that I really like.
Fourth, MB still has styling going for it. I prefer both the interior and exterior of the S over the LS. The LS exterior is way too generic and not at all "special" to me.
Fifth, MB still has the prestige factor going for it. I used to think this didn't matter, but one's tastes change, and yes I do care and don't mind admitting it.
Sixth, the prestige comes at a price. Lexus still offers better value in sedans (not SUVs) as compared to MB, even if the LS is expensive compared to a XJ or subsidized-lease 7-series.
So overall, there are still reasons to take the LS, and other reasons to go for the S. It is certainly NOT a slam-dunk for the S, merely because reliability is better than it was a few years ago. I'll know more after another round of test drives.
The fact that you dont like the one highly praised attribute of a MB S Class (it's bank vault-like feel) and the fact that you're dwelling on historic court cases of a prior S Class model that you're not even interested in proves that you're going out of your way to pooh pooh any alternative to the LS.
Suggestion: Forget this so called open mindedness of yours because in all honesty you're not as open minded as you think and just get the car that your biases have pre-destined for you: The Lexus LS.
Good luck at your future Lexus dealership visit.
The fact that you dont like the one highly praised attribute of a MB S Class (it's bank vault-like feel) and the fact that you're dwelling on historic court cases of a prior S Class model that you're not even interested in proves that you're going out of your way to pooh pooh any alternative to the LS.
Suggestion: Forget this so called open mindedness of yours because in all honesty you're not as open minded as you think and just get the car that your biases have pre-destined for you: The Lexus LS.
Good luck at your future Lexus dealership visit.
Oh, I see! I went and test drove 5 cars, just so I could prove to you guys that I'm open-minded....you people that don't know me, won't ever meet me, and don't even know my real name. And now I'm going to go test drive the 2 I've narrowed it down to, just so I can prove again how open-minded I am.
Just because "vault like feel" is an attribute of the car doesn't mean I have to LIKE that attribute. Just as a softer than the German competition ride is an attribute of Lexus, doesn't mean that you have to LIKE that attribute of Lexus.
And in point of fact I never said I was openminded. If you go back to the post in question, I said to tagman "Likely you view me as being just as unbalanced and unfairminded as I view you."
You know, dewey, your lame post is the last straw for me. I'm gone from this forum. Consider that the final "proof" that I'm making my car test drive choices and purchase choices for myself, not to impress you. If you don't know what I'm up to in the future, then my actions in the future will not and indeed cannot have been undertaken to prove anything to you.
Bye. Forever.
Come on, this is a bit like the "pot calling the kettle black." Let's be honest here, on this board there is very little open mindedness by anyone. This board is really a series of posts where almost everyone is firmly in one camp or the other, primarily Euro vs. Japanese. Almost everyone supports their car or brand in every post with little or no support for anything outside of their preferred brand. Earlier, I saw a post about "fair and balanced". That was humorous, no fair and balanced on this board. It's very predictable reading,,,unyielding support, as almost everyone posts data or offers opinions that support their preferred automobile or brand. Let's not kid ourselves, this board is interesting, but the origin and content of the commentary is very predictable.
This so-called light-hearted and highly opinionated discussion about "metallic inanimates objects with wheels" has become quite heavy-hearted and intensely emotional.
That's unfortunate!
Adieu!
It was a hypothetical discussion between an S-class owner, and a GS350 AWD owner, who was having a bit more problems than just imagined wind noise. In the case of the GS, I can't answer the end of the sentence. There doesn't seem to be a single thing about the GS that would make it worth putting up with if it needed several trips to the dealer.
I have driven an LS for quite a long time. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with the new LS. It predictably takes the LS formula to the next level. What it is not, however, is 1989 all over again. Lexus is doing a lot of over-promising and under-delivering lately. The new LS is more of the same, and to keep me around, it needs to be more than that.
Now thats a reasonable answer. The IS (while definitely not perfect) has some interesting and worthwhile qualities about it. It is a good looking car, the interior (though not my favorite in the class) is well executed, and for a Lexus it drives very well. Lexus needs more cars like that.
Bye. Forever.
:confuse: Wow... I was under the impression the value of these forums are to share (1) experiences, (2) findings, and yes (3) opinions. I think if someone's opinion about a certain vehicle was different from mine I would try and learn why, as all their deciding factors may be more inclusive than mine. Shouldn't we all learn from each other? And if we don't "learn" then we should be able to appreciate what factors others are considering to make their decisions... right? Unbelievable anyone would take an opinion so personal. :surprise:
I'm quite certain that you do get comfortable... I was just playing along with your funny post.
NICE CAR you've got there. I knew it when I checked on your posting activity and realized that you've posted on the BMW forum.
BTW, I hope you reconsider your reaction to leave this forum over that little misunderstanding you had with another poster. Those things can happen, I was interested in some of your comments.
So... that being said... consider another attempt.
TagMan
-moo
Therefore, the "bank vault" feeling is about the way the S-Class feels so solid. I understand that feeling. When I drove them both, I experienced the same solid feeling with the S-Class, but at the same time recognized that it's driving and performance dynamics were clearly superior to the LS. The LS, on the other hand was overall the quieter of the two, but not by so much as to make a world of difference. In fact, at certain higher freeway speeds, the LS absolutely presented a bit more wind noise than the S, while otherwise it was nice and quiet.
Both, IMO, were excellent shifters... smooth as silk, but the first two gears in the LS seemed very close to one another. Did you notice that at all? I read something to the effect that Lexus deliberately placed those first two gear ratios very close to give the LS some extra "off-the-line" sprint capability, due to the lack of low end torque.
When looking at the engine specs, indeed, the torque of the Mercedes engine is wonderful, by comparision, and it does explain the close gearing of the first two gear ratios that Lexus needed, and that MB did not need. Also, we know that Lexus admitted in an interview to deliberately one-upping Mercedes on the 8-speed as opposed to the 7-speed.
In real life... one tranny doesn't serve all that much better or worse than the other, as they are both smooth. I was informed on this forum by atlas7 that the gear-searching problem that the earlier LS builds suffered from has been fixed. To prove this, on your next test drive you need to evoke a passing gear kick-down situation for the tranny, and let it prove itself to find the lower passing gear quickly without any undue pause, which previously was unacceptable. Make sure it is to your satisfaction.
Good luck with your decision. I hope you are as objective as you are trying to be. I tried to be objective on my test drives of both vehicles, but ultimately I could not help myself from being attracted to the German bank vault and its wonderful driving dynamics. I also liked its interior better, as it didn't seem like a clone of everything else at any price bracket in terms of layout. Certainly the interior finish on the LS is high-end, but the layout is too common for me, and I have expressed my distaste for the over use of plastic in the LS, but I admittedly used some harsh words ("explosion at a plastics factory") which were a bit over the top, perhaps... at least according to some of the Lexus fans.
Anyway, keep us posted on round two.
TagMan
Anyways here's what BMW meant over a year ago when they talked about the new 7 Series being the first car for the internet age.
BMW brings Internet Protocol under the hood
By Christoph Hammerschmidt
Courtesy of EE Times Europe
(11/28/2007 10:03 AM EST)
MUNICH, Germany — A BMW research group has tested the Internet Protocol to network automotive controllers. The engineers found that IP could well suit the real-time requirements even of safety-critical applications. But the most prominent benefits are in another area: With IP networking, costs for automotive electronics probably could be lowered.
The research group, working at BMW Research and Technology GmbH, an R&D think tank for the Bavarian luxury car maker, had the enviable task to develop a vision of tomorrow's car networking technology. Their experiments included the usage of standard Ethernet for certain aspects of in-car networking.
The most recent concept addressed the fact that in today's cars up to 70 embedded computers are networked by a host of different networking systems including CAN, LIN, MOST and Flexray. While these different types of networking are optimized each for specific purposes, the variety creates complexity and costs.
In order to enable a radical simplification of the network jungle, the BMW engineers tested the aptitude of the Internet Protocol for applications in engine compartment and dashboard. For their experimental in-car network, they used standard PC and embedded electronic parts and included, among other ECUs, engine control (DME), Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) and dashboard head unit. In addition, a multimedia server and a camera were part of the network; gateways connected conventional non-standard automotive applications.
The results were very positive towards potential future IP in-car networks. "One of our research goals was to verify the real-time capabilities of IP for safety-critical applications," said project manager Richard Bogenberger. "In order to guarantee the short response times required, we used features such as QoS and traffic shaping. Our experiments with prototypes demonstrated, that the real-time behavior far exceeded the requirements — even when we ran multimedia applications across the same network."
Bogenberger and his team used the current IP version 4. They even evaluated the future version IPv6. "We found great potentials for IPv6 applications," Bogenberger said. "But the research goals could all be met by just using IPv4."
The motivation to test IP in car networking was twofold, Bogenberger said. "We expect rising requirements as to automotive electronics with respect to consumer electronics integration and the interconnectivity of cars with other vehicles and with the infrastructure. Also, we were interested in exploring the chances and possibilities created by making a vehicle an integral part of the global internet."
By using IP components and software routines, automotive OEMs could use standard components. "This would facilitate coordinating and matching processes with external partner since they would have access to hardware and software building blocks," Bogenberger said.
Since the study was not part of the serial car development, there is no schedule in place as to when the first "internet cars" could hit the roads. But, Bogenberger pointed out, talks with other automotive OEMs and tier ones will follow soon.
link title
The trio above are singing praises over the Nissan GT-R. This car is going to become a worldwide hit.
Just for the shake of playfully contributing to the debate: You know here in this continent the German luxury sedans weight more than the Lexus ones. The novelty being that this is like that now even in the always-being chauvinist France. The quota of top Renaults and Citroen C5 and C6 has greatly decreased in favor of the Germans. Only big Peugeots heroically resist for the moment. Where are the good old days? I miss those Citroens 2CV as much as the Renault 4L. :shades:
Last week I went to Bologna. I can tell you, there the situation is akin to that of France: Top Lancias, Fiats and Alphas have currently give way to Teutonic sedans. Yet in Italy there is much more minicar than in the rest of the European continent. Italians are very agile within street traffic, they know what they want. Oh, where they went, the mannish manners? :surprise: A man could not go out without wearing a hat, a can and ? Have a look at this:
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2005/3/28/5050328.001/5050328.001.Mini2L- - - - .jpg
Coming back home now. Too many beautiful French woman over here. I am getting out of my mind, I am afraid.
Regards,
Jose
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Very interesting, the German influence that you describe.
TagMan
It is a pity to see someone with such intelligence and smarts as SYSWEI leave the forum. It just brings the quality down somewhat, IMO. Dewey, I don't care if you meant it light-hearted or not, your post was insensitive and un-called for. It was a personal attack not meant in car-speak. It is disappointing. This forum needs balance, and we should embrace each others differing views not try to belittle them.
For some strange reason, the wife has now determined the TCH is mine as a b'day gift. Not what I wanted. I suppose its the wifey's way of creating another protracted delay in my pursuit of that perfectly balanced sport coupe. Looking for suggestions/ideas on how to turn the table around to let the wife "own" the TCH so that I can make a pitch for mine too?
Be cool guys...
However, and this is to everyone, the personal comments have to stop. If anyone feels the need to tell anyone else how to post, how to behave, anything on a personal level, please do it off-line.
Everyone has a carspace email account. You can use that if the person whom you wish to address does not have public email addy.
Further posts containing personal comments will be removed without notice.
Thank you everyone for your cooperation.
I bought my car because I love it, regardless of what other people say. I don't care if Jeremy Clarkson says otherwise--my car feels faster than the BMW 335i, dammit! And furthermore...
I don't buy cars based on size or feature content, either. Well, maybe feature content, to an extent. But I pay for them based on excellence. i.e., I would pay $75K for a 335xi coupe, because I just think that's what it's truly worth. Think about it: performance on par with the E39 M5, lovely styling, relative practicality, fuel efficiency. Similarly, I would pay any price for an Audi R8, assuming my pockets were deep enough. It seems like everyone else would, too, because that thing is flying off the lots for $50K over sticker. It's only because it's amazing. Who cares about the acceleration figures? It's better to drive than a Lamborghini Gallardo. It's more comfortable and easier to live with than a Maserati Gran Turismo. It's sexier than a Porsche 997. The engine, manual transmission, handling... all perfection. So it's worth a plenty more than $110K, IMO.
Catch my drift?
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
I wouldn't attempt to advise you in an area where few men have emerged successfully! Heh! Heh!
Let us know how the mpg is.
I'm getting tired of reading about how roomy certain cars are, and then I sit in them and find the exact opposite.
One must get out there and do the legwork.
I did the Accord EX-L V6. Next on my agenda is the Acura MDX. Hopefully this week.
I drive the 545i, but the Accord V6 felt reasonably quick. Very smooth and nice.
I recommend the Honda Accord for those looking for a Christmas gift for their gardener or favorite plastic surgeon.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Best way to avoid the trolls. :lemon:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Jose
Safely at home
And I don't care if the Accord EX-L V6 is as fast as a 545i, it ain't my style and I won't be caught dead in one. And rather than try to copy the 5-series style, Honda may want to look at Audi styling which remains classic and beautiful regardless of age. Audi's and not Bimmers should be the style leaders, IMHO
Not bad, the GS V8 wheels seem to fit the Camry rather nicely. The UHP summer tires may be a bit overkill though. This is a front wheel drive family sedan after all, so I don't think tires like Eagle F1s are really necessary. If it were me, I would've gone for something a bit more sensible, and with longer tread life, like Potenza AS Pole Position, or Pilot Sport A/S.
Have you done anything with the suspension yet? Do they even make sway bars and coilover kits for the Camry?
Good luck with it.
I'm still hoping one day to see a pic of your next Porsche Boxster that you posted about.
TagMan
The car's got everything Toyota puts on their loaded Camry - Navigation, heated seats and mirrors, leather, power driver and passenger seats, 7 airbags (knee, side, curtain, front), 1-touch open/close moonroof, ASL-enabled 4-CD changer with 440W JBL sound system, etc... etc...
The most pleasant (and welcome) surprise is that the DVD Nav 7.1 version no longer has that legalese "I Agree" button. This time it gives some fair warning to keep your eyes on the road and then silently brings up the map view. Cool. My '99 and '03 Lexus(es) still have the "I agree" button which is aggravating. I was real surprised by the features in a Camry approaching those in the Lexus. The leather is not quite up to Lexus quality, but then most of the features are pretty darn good, for a car in the $30K price range.
LG: I am still thinking about upgrading the suspension with the TRD springs. There are sway bars and braces that fits the 6th-gen Camry but I am not planning to add these yet. I have to stop spending money on a car sometime....
Impressive. It really is. And I agree with you that there is not a major reason to go overboard with the handling kits.
BTW, wait 'till the Chinese cars arrive. "Value" may get redefined.
TagMan
That Chinese car won't seem like such a great value when a 25mph crash kills you.
I get 20-21 mpg in the 545i with about 60% highway, 40% supermarket, post office and the bank. The best I get on the highway alone is 27 mpg, which is good for a V8.
I surely agree on the styling point you raised re: the HA. However it was a nice smooth drive with powerful low-end torque with absolutely no torque steer for those who are consonant with its style and disappointing lack of driver's seat legroom.... from one of my last reviews here on "analog".
From now on my worthless impressions will be available through Edmunds version of "digital cable": my car space outgoing e-mail (free of charge, of course!).... next the MDX, then the 328i vs 335i sedans, the X3 vs X5 3.0, Cayman vs Boxster. etc; Should keep me busy.
You don't have to buy 'em to drive 'em. What's nice is the 545i provides me with a convenient "ticket" into any upscale dealers' drivers' seats. The Porsche guys should be all over me!
Glad you are liking the TCH even though I realize it wasn't your first choice.
Life is full of compromises. If I was single, I'm sure a car like the Cayman would be in my garage right now.... but I'm not.... and it isn't.
We'll both try to muddle through somehow, Oac! Heh! Heh!
Just to let you know how serious I am with this stuff, when shopping for my wife, I drove:
• Audi A8 SWB
• BMW 535xi
• BMW X5 3.0si
• BMW X5 4.8i
• Jaguar XJ8
• Land Rover Range Rover Sport HSE
• Mercedes-Benz E350 4Matic
• Mercedes-Benz S550 4Matic
• Porsche Cayenne S ('06)
• Porsche Cayenne S ('08)
And I was impressed with all of them, but it came down to the A8, 535xi and X5 4.8i in my mind. The S550 was a bit too big. The RR Sport, too heavy. The E350, too pedestrian. Cayenne S? Didn't offer the same excitement as the X5. XJ8 was RWD. X5 3.0si was too slow. So that leaves the top three!
Alas, my wife still wanted an SUV, so X5 it was.
For me, it will be significantly more complicated. I'm looking at test drives of the Audi S5, S6 and S8, Audi RS4, BMW 335xi coupe,
BMW 535xi, BMW M3, BMW M5,Lexus IS-F, Mercedes-Benz CL550 andPorsche Carrera 4.That is a very long list. As you can see I've "crossed out" the 535xi, only because if I had to have a 5er, it would be the M5. The IS-F is because, well, the M3 and RS4 are already there. And the C4? Well, I'm not sure if I'm crossing out that one. We'll just have to see. But I'd probably rather have a 997 as my "summer" car.
I am so confused... :confuse:
At least it's an excellent dilemma.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
They kind of are. BMWs are trend-setting, but Audi is the brand that consistently wins awards for design, whether it be on the outside or inside. The Audi TT has also been widely copied.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
It seems like the new S4 might actually be more interesting than the S5, which has gotten pretty mediocre reviews across the board. The S4 is going to use their new turbo 3.0L right? That weight reduction in the nose compared to the V8 might reduce some of the "Audi Understeer" that the S5 still sadly suffers from, despite the new platform. What do you think of the Benz C63 AMG?
That's quite a statement to make, and you have made several posts regarding Chinese cars that infer that they will perform extremely poorly when it comes to crash safety. Is this just your subjective impression of the cars because they look so flimsy? Or is there some data that you know about?
From a personal perspective, I do indeed think they look flimsy, and I can't imagine the Chinese having the safety engineering necessary to conform to our standards, but I am not aware of any tests yet.
Are you speaking fact or opinion with those numerous posts?
TagMan
The idea to have a car connected to a central database to keep its software and firmware to the latest level is not bad. Any issue could be also recorded and available to the BMW network without the use of expensive diagnostic tools. this could improve the maintenace of the vehicule and keep its history clear of any tampering attempt.
The question remains how the safety and privacy are going to be guaranteed. I would hate to have my car stranded because a virus would have erased the ignition programme. What would happen if the software goes into Debug mode and that I need to use the i-drive every time I want to change a gear or lower a window?
I wouldn't either appreciate a teenage hacker to login with supervisor rights into my car and blow the airbags for the fun of it.
I was stranded a few times with a Peugeot and it needed me to press a button under the hood. It was like rebooting the car after a system halt and it did not give a great feeling to be at the mercy of software bugs.
Concept is quite close to that of a black box I have been advocating on another (regretfully frozen) thread. this needs very strong safety watchdogs.
Now real luxury is at the hands of German, then British and Italian brands.
Lexus are present, but modestly.
Citroen, Renault and Peugeot have high-end models which don't sell as well in France as the competiting BMW 5 Audi A6 and MB E. But there simply isn't any single french model that exist against 7/A8/S/LS
but I am afraid my German is much more cramped than my English
I will try to post other articles.
Around 6 months before lease turn-in is always exciting for me. Driving and re-driving. Eliminating and wishing I could live with the impractical (Cayman).
That was quite an impressive list. Most folks would be ecstatic with any of those.
What turns me off about the X5 is it is impractical, that is, it has so little cargo room. The MDX has much more, but of course, is a drop down in status.
We're talking 84 cubic feet vs only 62. The Land Rover, by the way has 87.
I will be driving my first MDX this week. Curious about how the Base suspension measures up to the Comfort and Sport modes of the MDX Sport. Hopefully I will be able to drive the Base and the Sport.
Thanks TagMan, I appreciate your comment and the feeling is mutual as I find your comments of interest as well. However about me leaving the forum... That was in response to a post from someone else who was leaving due to a post that attacked him personally. I am not leaving, nor could anyone say something that would cause me to want to leave. I can appreciate anyone's opinion... whether I agree with it or not. :shades: