By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
My only concern about Chinese cars at this point is, how heavy are they going to be? I mean with all that lead paint they are so hell-bent on using.
My question is; I am wondering why BMW doesn't recommend an oil change after this initial break-in period. This is my first BMW, and perhaps I am just "Old School" here, but it just seems it would make a lot of sense to get the oil changed after the break-in period. I am one of these people who go to extremes with preventative maintenance, and the thought of keeping the initial oil in it for 15,000 miles or so is really eating at me. Anyone with more BMW experience care to comment here? :confuse:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Anyway, I think the reason of that is because modern day engines do not require oil change after the break-in period. I know Lexus doesn't require that either, however, Lexus does offer the complimentary 1,000-mile checkup though, I don't think any service is done for the checkup, it is more like a feel-good experience for the customers than anything else.
However, for me I don't care if they put the magical oil in there I still don't like the idea of changing oil every 15K miles. BMW's free service will be waaaay more appealing if they stick to the 5K miles interval.
There's quite a bit of data, actually. The NHTSA and the IIHS haven't tested Chinese cars yet, but EuroNCAP has, and the results are, shall we say, "not good". See for yourself.
EuroNCAP test #1
EuroNCAP test #2
As far as I know, they're all like this. It's almost funny how badly they do, until you think about the fact that there are actually real people, not dummies, driving these cars everyday. The Koreans have learned how to make their cars safe, but the Chinese still need quite a bit more time.
What's the technical reason for THAT?
I thinks it's more about modern marketing, than modern engines. The less "required" (as opposed to "recommended") maintenance a manufacturer indicates, the more appealing it is to typical buyers.
Most good mechanics still recommend more frequent oil changes than 15,000 miles, and many of them suggest synthetic oil.
Also, one of the most important oil changes is that very first one. Spend the few bucks and do it anyway, regardless of what the manufacturer says... and use a synthetic oil if you are willing to spend a little more.
TagMan
TagMan
Indeed. Its worth noting that cars from well established automakers built less than 10 years ago often fail current tests. A '99 Ford Escort is a 2 star car, while a 2004 Focus got 5 stars. The '98 Civic got 2.5 stars, while the '06 got 4, and I would say that current Chinese cars aren't anywhere close to the build quality of a '98 Honda Civic.
Frankly, I kind of hope they do well. I have no objection to more competition in the auto marketplace at all levels. I think it is ultimately a good thing. The Chinese could one day be a huge force to reckon with, especially if their cars are reasonably safe and reliable, because we already have good reason to believe that their price tags are going to send tremors throughout the industry.
TagMan
That's a good point. Audi improved the crash results of the A6 hugely from '98 to '04, which is the first year and last year of the same design. They didn't have to completely redesign the A6 to get it up to perfect score levels. If you look at Hyundai though, sure the first cars they sold in this market were cheap, but they were absolutely terrible cars. I'm sure the same is going to be true of the Chinese. Hyundai's latest models are comparable to Honda and Toyota for the most part, but it took them more than 20 years to get there.
The US market is the world's toughest. Renault, Alfa, Peugot, etc. couldn't hack it and packed up and left. I'm all for competition that spurs all automakers to make better cars that are better values, but I don't have a lot of faith in the Chinese cars, at least where they are right now, getting any real traction here. And that's assuming they don't all immediately get sued for blanket design infringement.
Judging from early reports from the industry, auto sales haven't been this flat across the board in quite some time, no doubt do in part to the crazy mortgage mess.
GM had the steepest slide, although it was relatively minor. Truck sales for every mass maker was horrible.
The luxury sector isn't excluded. Lexus posted 14,892 units sold, a 7.8% decline from a year ago. This is unchartered territory for the maker. Infiniti and Acura posted small gains, with Infiniti up 2.1%
Nissan and Honda both posted modest gains on the backs of fresh products and hot crossovers. The Toyota Prius meanwhile had a 45% jump in sales, as gas prices crept over 3 bucks again.
All of this is to say that if you're going to buy, buy now.
Based on what I understand from the article is that it will be like a private internet system (intranet). This endeavor is done to simplify the networking system that connects all the embedded computers in a car. Having one single IP networking system will simply reduce the complexity of having different networking systems like Flexray, LIN, CAN and MOST.
A hacker geek may be able to to put a wireless interface into the car's network and use a wi-fi media player with his car's speakers and rear seat monitors.
Do the extra oil changes if you want to keep your car for longer period of time. A lot of metallic stuff gets in the fluids faster than what we think. I had a problem free BMW for 8 years and I believe that had a lot to do with my pedantic unschedule oil changes.
I managed to get a free unscheduled oil change from BMW for both my car and my wife's wagon. It may be worth a try at your dealership.
David Cole, chairman of the Center For Automotive Research, said competition is forcing automakers to consider options they might not have contemplated only 12 months ago.
"There is going to be another round of mergers in the auto industry and the one company that matches up well with Volkswagen is Chrysler," he noted.
Volkswagen already has a joint project with Chrysler to develop a new minivan, which will be assembled by Chrysler in the next couple of years and will be sold in the U.S.
"VW needs a strong presence in North America. In a complimentary and synergistic relationship, Chrysler has got a lot to offer. The scale that General Motors and Toyota have are absolute killers. The only thing you can do is match up to them. GM will have taken $5,000 out of the cost of a car soon," Cole noted.
link title
Riiight. And according to Automotive News, it won't be long before GM and Ford get hitched. This just isn't going to happen, at least, not in some "merger of equals" sort of way. VW might get pieces of Chrysler when Cerberus decides its time to stop fooling everyone and get on with the business of strip-and-flip, but thats about it.
I thought he did alright for himself.
But that's just a small example of one of the many even more incredible deals out there.
If only there was the vehicle I actually wanted to buy!
I'm waiting patiently for the diesels.
TagMan
VW and Chrysler will never merge... NEVER.
TagMan
I especially want to know about his new Lexus LS, after he buys it.
TagMan
Far from "mediocre," but yes, I agree. Perhaps most interesting of all will be the A4 3.0TDI, though--40MPG+ and 0-60mph in six seconds or less.
The S4 is going to use their new turbo 3.0L right? That weight reduction in the nose compared to the V8 might reduce some of the "Audi Understeer" that the S5 still sadly suffers from, despite the new platform.
I have read about this, and I am elated that they're bringing the turbo six back. Well, a turbo six.
I have read that Audi demanded that the S5 still understeer. It is apparently to save room for the RS5, which like the RS4 and R8 will be another world-beater. I think the S5's handling is significantly improved over my car's (granted, I'm taking this from what the magazines say), but it's still not very inspiring. Especially not when compared to the RS4 or R8.
What do you think of the Benz C63 AMG?
I'm not much of a Merc guy. Never have been, never will be. I love them but I can't buy one. I'm a BMW/Audi/Porsche kind of person.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
Interesting & very relevant point.
The cars are all heavier here in NA for a reason (well, a variety of reasons), and there are others (besides safety & emission requirements) as well.
Could be economy of scale too. Niche markets don't do well here, given the EPA qualification tests & requirements. BMW sells about 35 varities of 3's & 5's in Europe & a quarter of that here.
Maybe it's good. Maybe not.
I'm saying "not."
TagMan
I, on the other hand, am quite impatient. I'll be acquiring some kind of replacement for my present vehicle sometime in the next 6-12 months, and I'm not at all confident that there will be a diesel available in the proper time frame.
Short-term lease?
For me, a lease of any kind is not my style, but given the diesel situation, I may have to step outside the proverbial comfort zone.
I was trying to convey the notion that well-established (as opposed to Chinese) cars that are acceptable in many other places on earth can't make it here, for whatever reasons.
I'm laying it at the feet of the EPA & other government bodies, plus the fickle American consumer, but that's just me.
YMMV.
1) Cerberus Desperation
Cerberus recently couldn't sell 4 billion $ of Chrysler bonds and their getting jolted with GMAC's Finace Business and the bail out of North Rock in the UK. Cerberus is bleeding cash and they may be reconsidering their big ideas about Chrysler.
2) VW's Euro Cost Disadvantage
-What if that Chrysler VW minivan becomes a success? VW will have a much easier time sharing platforms with Chrysler than MB did.
-VW wants to establish manufacturing in USA to hedge it manufacturing costs from the declining dollar just like Japaneste transplants
The point was that I think the European market will be much easier for the Chinese to get a foothold than the US market. They already have a ton of cheapie brands like Proton and Perodua, which we don't get because the Malaysian cars either can't pass federal regs or would have no chance of getting dealers who want to actually sell the cars, or both. Look at how much trouble Smart had trying to get here, and thats with M-B behind it!
I was just curious because unlike the S5, the C63 is supposed to have fantastic handling, and costs quite a bit less than say the CLK Black Series.
Canadian regulations resembles strict American regulations and we had the SMART for years. I guess American regulations must be stricter (yet our car markets are almost identical)
I dont think it was regulation problems with the Smart cars, I think it had more to do with exchange rate. What I was trying to say though is that for one reason or another, its difficult for anybody to try and launch a new brand in this country. Just ask Malcolm Bricklin
A fellow Canadian! Having a hell of a time with Chery USA and his Bricklin sports car wasn't even a success here in Canada (forget the USA).
Well, if THAT's what you meant, then I agree. What Hyundai accomplished has been amazing. Scion could use the Toyota dealer network, so it doesn't count.
The price of those Chinese cars could be irresistable to lower-middle class America, however, and that's what I'm thinking might happen. I mean we're talking VERY inexpensive price tags, potentially... unlike anything ever seen (not historically, but relative to the current market).
TagMan
A closer bond? That's an ambiguous term. Sure, they'll conduct some business together, if you want to call that a closer bond, OK.
But a merger?... Forget it. IMO, It will NEVER happen, Dewey. VW already has large and expensive plans in place for the US market... all without any ideas about a merger with Chrysler.
TagMan
I put the link and commentary on the ADAC testing of the Brilliance BS6 on the "China auto Industry news" thread.
I guess the Chinese cars don't have a recognized place in this first class lounge yet.
My overall impression is that Chinese cars are much more advanced than I had thought, particularly with regards to the upcoming hybrids and electrics, due out towards the end of this decade.
I am amazed at the information about the huge production of Chinese cars, and that they are going to make huge production leaps within just a few years. I think they will be better vehicles than some give them credit for!
Anyway, I marked that site, so I'll be visiting there from time to time. Thanks again!
TagMan
But stupidity is a hallmark distinctintion for German auto mergers and acquisitions as recent history has shown (let us not forget BMW-Rover)
"If it quacks like a duck..."
IMO, the key words are always "required" or "recommended".
Mobil 1 is what I use... and it also helps that it is typically (although not always) available when you need it.
Even when it comes to the fuel octane... sometimes the manufacturer will say premium is required, and sometimes they say is it recommended. If it is recommended, depending upon the vehicle, the mid-grade is sometimes more than adequate. There are some vehicles that need premium, while others do just as well with mid-grade. I never use regular unless the vehicle is made to run on it... like certain SUVs, trucks, and econoboxes... and even then, some of those models need a higher octane.
But, back to the "earl-change", I'm glad to learn that you intend to change the oil more often than BMW indicates.
BTW, unless I am misunderstanding you here, you should consider DRAINING the oil out, instead of pumping it out, if you can, because there is sometimes, especially in a brand new engine, very fine metallic debris that is best removed by draining the oil. Pumping oil out might not get the debris that has settled. And it goes without saying that a new filter makes sense at the same time. I do not know if there are genuine differences between filters, as there is with the oil (synthetic vs. non-synthetic). If you know something about this, let me know.
It's good to know that your beautiful 550i will get the TLC it deserves! BTW, what exterior and interior color? I often ask this, as I can visualize your car better when we are posting! (Or, you can post a pic!)
TagMan
Speed Bump Video Clip
TagMan
You can say that again:
November 2007 Sales
Lexus LS460/600 -26.2 percent
MB S Class -24.2 percent
BMW 7 Series -12.7 percent
Audi A/S8 +5.8 percent
And here's the worst news of all. While the lux segment benefitted most with inflationary horsepower, humungous engines and blitzing performing the future may be very different since auto makers will focus their R & D dollars mainly on efficiency:
As manufacturers go about their product plans, the thinking will be "all mileage, all the time," says an official with one major auto maker. Emphasis on 0 to 60 performance, big engines and large horsepower numbers will decrease.
WALL STREET JOURNAL
I personally expect things to significantly improve by Spring, '08. Not too far off, if I'm right.
You are the financial man on this forum... what do you think?
(edit: glad you liked the video! "funny and insensitive?" LOL!)
TagMan
Chery is an amazing example of how fast the Chinese auto industry is developing:
Chery this year expects to export more than 110,000 cars, up from about 50,000 in 2006, mainly to emerging markets such as Russia, the Middle East and Latin America, where its low prices are helping to win it business. The company is building a car-shipping port on the Yangtze near its plant to send vehicles to China's coast and overseas.
Still, Chery remains far smaller than the world's big auto makers. Volkswagen AG, General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. have each outsold Chery in the China market so far this year. World-wide, GM and Toyota both sell nearly nine million vehicles a year.
At Chery's research and development center, engineers say they are now at work developing 40 to 50 new car models, at least 10 of which could be ready for production as soon as next year. The company is building new assembly lines that next year will boost its capacity to about 700,000.
WALL STREET JOURNAL
I wish I knew? This is not a typical kind of situation since for the first time there is a slight risk(not a probable risk but just slight) that quite a few big derivative contract counterparties may not be able to live up to their commitments.( there are dozens of trillions of dollars of those contracts out there whose value is based on a counterparties ability to deliver) . Vast and big Citicorp is a counterparty for a lot of derivatives contracts and its shares have been recently tumbling like an anchor because nobody really know what their liabilities are. If major financial instituions get squeezed to a serious point then this whole world will be fried.
Also what is very scary is the heighted blame as observed recently across the world towards foreign trade, foreign investments and at the same time immigrants/foreigners. Trade wars and harsh anti-immigration legistlations across the world will destroy a lot of the prosperity that globalization has earned for us so far.
But being an optimist I think we can still plan to buy luxury cars in the near future :shades:
TagMan
Hey Tagman... it is black with a natural brown interior. I have pics in my album in MyCarSpace. Appreciate your comments, always makes you feel better when people tend to agree.
I was a little worried that our sales (Porsche) would slump because of the economy. Strangely, we've actually started to pick up a lot of business from people overseas. Our dollar is weak, so they purchase a vehicle for much less than what they would pay. So, we may lose some sales from folks here in the States, but we're picking them up from overseas. Pretty sweet!
-moo
And is that the slow-selling and obscure Audi A8 posting, of all things, a gain?
103.1%
Looks like Lexus would have no problem of selling $35K units of LS this year.
What's interesting is the GS, both the V6 and V8 versions posted a gain from 11/06. The IS continues to sell well despite being the oldest model in its class, up 6.9% in November and 0.8% year to date.
Lol! What did the A8 do, increase from 10 in 06 to 11 in 07? :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
In fact... I think it's much more of a car than the Lexus LS and BMW 7er. Right up there with the S-Class.
I know you probably weren't bashing the big Audi, but I have to get defensive sometimes. It's the fanboy inside me.
'08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet