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Luxury Lounge

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  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    On the other hand, maybe the people buying these smaller European luxury cars are the smart ones! Not poseurs at all. Just people who know the value of a buck or looney if they are from up North.

    I've thought for the last year or so that the traditional luxury barges (S Class, 7 Series, etc.) were very much overated, unreliable, overpriced and not much fun. Heck, in December I bought a Chevy Silverado Extended Cab with most tasteful bells and whistles and love it. Much more than the S Class I shopped it against. Some mornings I even drive it to work rather than the Cayenne.

    All in all the real bang for the buck seems to be in the 5 Series size vehicle. Here one can find good performance, AWD, fun, and save 30K. Can anyone deny that an XF is a much better way to go than an XJ? An E Class with the V8 is better than a S Class? A Bimmer 5 Series more fun/more reliable/etc. than a 7 Series?

    The real poseurs I think are the S Class type buyers who "have" to have that class vehicle to validate themselves.
  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    All in all the real bang for the buck seems to be in the 5 Series size vehicle

    Ahhhh... very well stated from someone who has also done their homework. The 5 Series is a lot more fun than the 7 Series. Not as lux, but more fun for sure. The 550i is probably the best positioned vehicle in BMW's lineup. My reason for saying is; it is refined enough to have as a daily driver in stop and go traffic, it gets really good gas mileage if driven conservatively, and yet it also can be a really nice sport sedan when you feel like driving it like a BMW.

    It is all personal preference here. I like all the Series as each are designed for different purposes and really cannot be compared to each other. However, after very close comparisons I found the 550i offers a little of everything (of what I was looking for anyway).
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    You are joking, right? All the brand ratings are based on the entire brand. You can't just conveniently drop one product from the mix. Even if you did, Infiniti has a long way to go to match Lexus in reliability.

    I'm not joking. The Armada has terrible quality, and because the QX is based on that and I believe comes from the same plant, its quality also hugely suffers. What other Infinitis (the "real" ones that aren't just Nissan rebadges) are unreliable? The G35 is more reliable than the ES and about the same as the IS, and the M is hugely more reliable than the GS. Pit the M35x against the GS350 AWD, and its not even a contest. Only the Infiniti has "Lexus reliability" in that case. If the QX wasn't destroying their overall average, I think Infiniti would either be at the top or very near it.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Chromed wheels and blacked out windows is not the fault of the MB S Class itself but the fault of the customers with pimping up tendecies.

    Regardless, that kind of thing still does damage to a brand. Cristal used to be a respectable champagne.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    OK, so anyone have any thoughts onthe XLR.Looks wise, its drop dead beautifull.

    I'm not a particular fan of the SL, but I think trading an SL for an XLR is quite a big step down. The Cadillac is simply a bad product. As C&D said: "what to buy if you simply must be seen driving an American car". There is no other reason than that to buy one. I would suggest considering a Porsche 911 or Jaguar XK. While neither has the trick folding metal roof, they are both far superior cars.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If you ask me the C class and 3 Series are "poser vehicles."

    I won't really argue with you on the C-class. It's just the cheapest way to get a 3-pointed star on the hood, not a particularly great car. Some people buy BMWs for the badge, and some for the genuine performance that they offer. I don't think the 335i with the sport package and 6-speed manual is a poser mobile, that's a drivers car. The same could be said of the Boxster.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    All in all the real bang for the buck seems to be in the 5 Series size vehicle. Here one can find good performance, AWD, fun, and save 30K. Can anyone deny that an XF is a much better way to go than an XJ? An E Class with the V8 is better than a S Class? A Bimmer 5 Series more fun/more reliable/etc. than a 7 Series?

    I would agree that the "mid-lux" segment represents the best overall compromise for most situations in the luxury market. While they are larger and heavier than the entry-lux cars they can still be very enjoyable to drive, while offering usable luggage space and decent rear legroom.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I really only see the uneven brightness on Mercs. Weird!

    I wonder if the drivers know they are uneven!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Oh, I don't know...I linked up my free Verizon parent's phone (no texting!) bluetooth capable cell phone to this 330xi for full philharmonic hands-free calling!

    If that makes me a poseur wanna-be, so-be-it!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Louis, try the 1-er and let me know what you think...I sat in it but I felt a little tight. I will test drive it soon as my 3-er lease expires this year.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    The C-Class is not the cheapest way to get the 3-pointed star, at least in Canada. I believe the Smart for 2 or the B-Class hatchback is the real candidate.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I remember seeing the original Smart car and thinking...if you hit a squirrel in that, you'll wind up in intensive care!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    What about the FX vs the RX in quality?
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Yep, me too. I remembered that there were some discussions here about that :)
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Although my wife does not like to drive very much, but she always likes the Miata once she saw it at an auto show. Maybe I should get one just to get her to drive more often.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    If you are using the CR reliability statistics then you are really cherry picking by citing isolated examples where one Infiniti is rated above a certain Lexus. There are many more examples where Lexus is rated above Infiniti. For example:

    You stated that the G35 was rated above the GS. However, the GS hybrid is the #1 rated vehicle in this class and, of course, is rated above the G35. The G35 is also rated below the IS in this category.

    Infinitis are fine cars but they have hardly surpassed Lexus in reliability.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I don't think the 335i with the sport package and 6-speed manual is a poser mobile

    I couldn't agree more! ;)

    Oh yes my manual sport packaged 335i has leatherette seats too (a true poseur would rather be dead than be seen sitting on those seats of mine). Unlike my 98 BMW 323i cloth seats were not available on my 335i otherwise I would have chose cloth seats instead.

    My wife has leather in her 530xi touring. It's nice but for me it means nothing. My butt is equally comfortable on a slaughtered cow's hide, a Dupont synthetically made leatherette seat or a 3M chemically treated cloth seat.

    In all honesty my unpretensious tush cant tell the difference between these alternatives.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Louis, try the 1-er and let me know what you think

    I really like the 1-series but too bad it doesn't come with 2 extra doors. Although my backseat is rarely occupied but I still like the utility of a 4-door when that rare occasion arrived.

    Also, given that a 135i built to my liking will be around $43k I am thinking that's a little bit pricey for such a tiny car. Personally I think a low mileage, pre-owned M3 would be a better buy and drive. After I went to the track last Friday I got this urge to check out some E46 M3s. On Saturday I went to check out a few and found this 2005 blue one with 33k miles on it and Carmax wants $34.5k. I think that's a really good deal but the only down side (for me) is that it's a manual, I refuse to buy a manual as my daily driver in LA. If that car has the SMG I'll probably be driving it right now...

    Okay, maybe not. :P
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    OK, sounds good...those E46 M3's are really nice....the new one isn't bad either!

    Regards,
    OW
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    There is a cayenne and cayenne S which looks the same except the engine.

    The new GTS ,Turbo looks the same

    Another 1 The TURBO S with even more power price euro 111.400 !!!!! :surprise:
  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    If you ask me the C class and 3 Series are "poser vehicles."


    I cannot believe you said that! Each one of the BMW Series is what all other manufacturers strive to accomplish in their perspective class. How would a 3 Series be a poser... compared to what? :confuse:
  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    The Houston-BMW CCA Chapter held a Car Control School where we were able to get out on the track and experience the limitations and capabilities of our cars. That was FUN!

    link title

    link title
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Ignore him. He's a troll. Either that, or he's an 11-year-old using Dad's computer. Note the spelling: "by" when he obviously means "buy".
  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    Hahaha... probably some high school geek that hacked his way into Edmunds just to see if anyone would respond to his uneducated post. And I responded... :sick:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I also think he just registered that same day!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hi 2001

    The Miata is definitely for a younger person imo, and women always look happy in one....Look at them when every the chance comes, :) I think they were built to take the place of the old MG, and Austin Healey...Very small, and light .Great fun to drive---just a test drive is fun--- Tony
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    For me the cloth seat use to feel cooler, and I didn`t slide around too much....Been a while since I had one with cloth, and I sort of think women like the slippery leather-or leatherette for sliding in and out more easily....Frankly leatherette is just as good as a poorer grade of leather, and it feels a little better than the rigid leather imo...I like the higher grades of leather better than leatherette, and in my present car I made the mistake of not getting the suade type of headliner....If you are going to get the upgraded package--which is epensive-- at least have the sense to go all the way and not try and skimp anywhere Tony
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    … to go in good company and riding or not your best car.

    link title

    But the biggest prize of the night - the Best Restaurant in the World went - for the third year running, to El Bulli.

    Enjoy :blush:

    Jose
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Ha, a bogus list!! McDonald's has to be the best. They are the sales champ! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    A bit too Euro-USA centric in my opinion.

    I am amazed at the lack of restaurants in Asia. Some of the most extravagant meals I ate so far was in Asia.

    Also in Toronto one of the most renowned Chefs in the world runs a restaurant called Susur. I've been there many times and this IMO is the best among the best. Unfortunately Susur is closing on May 31st because the Chef Susur Lee is moving to Manhattan. :(

    His definitely going to make bigger bucks in NYC than Toronto even though he will be paid with those deflating American Pesos, ooops sorry I meant US dollars. :P
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Cloth seats for me are numero uno. I am not crazy about leatherette and leather but the advantage with leatherette in a BMW is that I dont have to pay an extra few thousands for the priviledge of cow hide.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    A bit too Euro-USA centric in my opinion

    What else is new?

    :sick: ...
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Thanks Jose

    You`d better ask about the price before going....Some of those really expensive resturants--although very creative---really cost a bunch for one meal, and I like several a day :) How has the new car been preforming? Tony PS I think that food tastes best if eaten outside, and prepared by someone else :)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,620
    "Please tell me why should I get anything that's larger than a 3er/C/IS/G?"

    Excellent question. The smaller (lighter) the car, the more nimble it is -- significantly more fun to dirve.

    However, one can't do the status (waving what-have-you in the air) thing driving such vehicles.

    Hence the discussion.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    While it may be the case that "Infinitis are fine cars..." IMHO the brand lacks the acceptance that Lexus has achieved. Nothing stands out: certainly not the reliability, customer service, cache, etc. I've never,ever seen even a post comparing it to MB.

    What pyschological "space" does Infiniti occupy in the mind of the car buying public? Presitge? No, thats MB. Feline good looks? No, thats Jag. Reliability/customer service? Nope, thats Lexus. Lux performance? No, thats BMW. Winter AWD performance/great interior/some flair? Thats Audi.

    I hope for their sake that they are 20% less money than a Lexus because there is no other reason to buy one.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Very well put and I could not agree more.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I don't know why I haven't checked in in so long.

    That V8 engine would be a gas guzzler though and Jag has been plagued by reliability problems for years.

    Wow. When are people going to realize this? It's not just you--EVERYONE! Jaguar is consistently one of the top ten most reliable brands in the industry, with some of the best customer service, frequently topping satisfaction surveys. There. Done. :D

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Yes, that's absolutely correct, but just like any Lexus product that's based off a Toyota platform, it doesn't in any way hinder the car's performance or luster IMO. The A3 is a super fun, quick, efficient, comfortable, stylish little hatch that I think everyone should have--the world would be a better place! :)

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I know I'm late, but...

    Nobody comes even close???

    You want to retract that statement?

    Audi sold over 251,000 cars in the first quarter of 2008 (worldwide)... putting them on track, for the first time, to sell a million cars this year. If that's not close to M-B then what is?

    Also I keep seeing A5/S5s... OMG :surprise: Sex on wheels!

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Infiniti is its own brand. It doesn't necessarily have a "category" that we can pack it into, all folded up nicely, but they are very appealing cars all their own. Personally, the G is the best of the bunch. A friend has a red '08 G35X which I have driven on several occasions; it's really a great car to drive. Probably not on 3 Series level, although I have yet to drive a 335i; the G has a sweet exhaust note, linear acceleration, some shove whenever you need it, a comfortable driving position, confident handling and generally simple controls.

    I don't think I'll end up with one, but I certainly wouldn't mind.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I think a line should be drawn. What is a poser car and who is a poser?

    There should be some sort of equation. We shouldn't judge--just because a young person drives a 3 Series, doesn't mean they bought it for the badge. He could just enjoy driving. It is, in fact, possible!

    Am I a poser because I bought a car with an automatic transmission? Because it has AWD instead of RWD? Because it's just a bit overweight?

    :confuse:

    Also. TagMan is still nowhere to be found. :cry::( :mad: :sick:

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    A bit too Euro-USA centric in my opinion. I am amazed at the lack of restaurants in Asia. Some of the most extravagant meals I ate so far was in Asia.

    Agreed. El Bulli's chef, Ferrán Adrià recognizes that the best food—not only on the average but also in its peaks—is the oriental food. Still, many excellent restaurants apparently are not well known outside its Countries, and in addition they do not receive criticism from Western experts. For instance, many restaurants in Japan refuse to enter in the quests; an occidental could not appreciate the many subtleties of their cuisine, they say.

    To have diner in El Bulli is reported as an experience unforgettable. It is only opened four months per year, to serve an Adrà-planned menu to only fifty clients a night, with fifty chefs working all day for them. Ferrán Adríà spends the rest of the year visiting other chiefs around the world and making inventions for the next season. Adrià makes most of his money from other cuisine-related business, such as other restaurants (Madrid, Sevilla) in which menus previously served in El Bulli are offered, or high quality fast food restaurants and catering facilities.

    I never had diner at El Bulli. I asked once to, but the queue was as long as two years. I refused to wait so long :P . But I have had at Mugaritz (4th place in the S. Pellegrino List) and Arzak (8th place). Both are not farther than 50 miles from my home. They are excellent (what can I say :) ) and not so expensive, in particular as compared to other restaurants of less quality but much more pretentious. One may go without tie and jacket—not in bermudas or t-shirts however.

    link title

    link title

    link title

    Regards,
    Jose
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    The only one I can speak to with authority is the French Laundry in Napa and it is fantastic.

    Personally I am also interested that the English have a restuarant in there at #2! I guess he's not just serving pies and boiled meat...
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Hi, Tony,

    You`d better ask about the price before going....

    :D:D:D Arzak and Mugaratz (link title) are "affordable" though not for everyday (about 135 € plus wine and taxes) :blush: .

    I think that food tastes best if eaten outside, and prepared by someone else

    :shades: Me too!!!

    How has the new car been preforming?

    Very well. However, there are things I miss from the 530d. Firstly, the manual gearing; the auto tranny will make me a lazy driver. Secondly, the trunk roominess. Thirdly, getting in and out was a lot easier in the 5-. On the contrary, this 335d is glued to the road. I can brake late to head to the turn apex quicker than in the 530d. I am really enjoying the car on winding roads.

    Regards,
    Jose
    PS: Those Miata are nice toys! ;)
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Personally I am also interested that the English have a restaurant in there at #2! I guess he's not just serving pies and boiled meat...

    How can it be possible, this #2? :P You may forgive me, first time I ate fish and chips I was on the verge of throwing out! Yet I had very nice meals at "Elisabeth's" in Oxford, for instance. (But the chef was born and educated in Valencia, Spain. ;) )

    Seriously speaking, I find English roasts (with or without salt crust) delicious.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    For instance, many restaurants in Japan refuse to enter in the guests; an occidental could not appreciate the many subtleties of their cuisine, they say.

    Racial discrimination against western customers in a country that is considered western friendly?

    What a contrast to the fact that the most customer friendly firms within the western world are Japanese (just ask Lexus customers).

    I guess Occidentals being a minority in Japan is the reason for that difference. Makes me wonder how Lexus would treat a non-Japanese customer in Japan ?
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    I believe the Japanese are more sensitive when it comes to food because there are many more nuances that are respected by the Japanese diner.

    The form of the food on the plate, the rarity of the food itself, the subtle touches of color and texture are all important in western cuisine but do not reach the significance that they do in the East.

    Also the relationship between the diner and the preparer of the food is different. Where we see customer (generally somewhat obnoxious if the food is expensive) and server, the Japanese see artist and admirer. We (Westerners) do not tend to do a very good job observing the rituals around food that have value in the East.

    I think Lou would be the expert here?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I think Lou would be the expert here?

    Ehh... I am not an expert in Japanese cusine, all I know is that raw Tuna tastes good with sticky rice and wasabi sauce... :P

    However, I do know that in the Eastern cultures, many of the rituals (whether it's on the dining table, the tea ceremony or many other places) maybe seem just for the show but in reality the meaning behind those are usually very deep. So whether you understand it or not, having respect is always the best way to approach it.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    refuse to enter in the guests

    Dewey, I wrote quests. My bad. I think I did not choose the correct word. I was trying to say that many good restaurants in Japan refuse to enter in the surveys done by occidental experts for the restaurants to be included/qualified, for instance, in the Michelin Guide or other Restaurant-quality listing.

    Speaking on exotics, today is St. George's day, the traditional patron saint of many provinces/cities in Spain; and the anniversary of Cervantes' and Shakespeare's deaths (the same day of the same year—April 23, 1616). So, it is customary to buy today a present for family members and close friends. The present being a book and a rose. I am in a hurry to go out and and buy my offering before wife come home. :blush:

    Regards,
    Jose
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    today is St. George's day, the traditional patron saint of many provinces/cities in Spain; and the anniversary of Cervantes' and Shakespeare's deaths

    And the patron saint of England, so a rousing Happy St.George's Day to you all! :)
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