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Comments
I've read such a wide disparity of car makes having great dealerships, so-so, & horrible.
Might some of this be attributed to ownership groups?
Here in Chaz (& Tony can correct or back me up), one group owns Porsche, MB, Infinifi & others that slip my mind.
Same group that owns local Chevy also has BMW & other imports.
Lexus dealer, AFAIK, is solo w/o nearby competition.
Acura owner, now also Audi owner has no nearby competition either.
Some, if not all of these ownership groups have more dealerships in the SE, but not convenient to Chaz.
Here, I thought Lexus had the best showroom experience. No experience w/service.
MB was a very close second, again no service experience, but wonder if their Porsche arm is as good. I didn't go there.
BMW was good, but also felt like it's where they graduate their Chevy salesmen to. I rank below Lexus & MB.
Acura come Audi owner...Acura was very subpar in buying experience in '01. Service also not to good.
Now they have Audi. I had a good sales experience w/them. No service as yet, but Tony said they were improving.
I liked my buy with Audi because I sent an e-mail about what I was interested in. They called when one was in so I could check it out. The same guy had me test drive almost every different model on the lot. That's who I bought from.
I guess I'm for the sales model of my experience as a future measure.
I will check out the Porsche crew in my area and report back...the previous posts regarding the Cayman tempt me to test that little baby out. I agree it's the nicest looking of the family. I'll insist on the S test drive.
Regards,
OW
Too bad I couldn't get those Porsche sales encounters on tape. Porsche corporate wouldn't have been too pleased. One would think with the economy down, when someone enters the showroom these guys would be extra eager to do whatever it takes to close a sale. Neither guy seemed sorry to see me leave. Perhaps I have to develop that "Porsche look." If the wife ever stops staring at herself in front of the mirror, I must practice it.
However it's good to know Porsche has a 100 best dealers program-its Premier Porsche dealers. I learned my lesson. If I ever decide to do Porsche again, it will be with a Premier dealership.
BMW recently published its list of 100 best dealerships in the USA. Not one Florida dealership made the list.
I didn't mean to imply M buyers are close to death! Sorry! LOL!!!
The BMW dealer has been good to my wife, really extra good....The Audi has been good, the Lexus very good, the Mercedes o.k according to my wife....A long time ago I went in to order a Porsche, and it was as though they were doing me a favor...I didn`t understand the German philosophy, and as time went on I learned they were all like that...In the less distant past it seems as though these dealerships have all really evolved.....Down in Miami the `Collection` is an interesting experience, and I found --as grubby as I was--the Ferrari , and Audi part were quick to exploit my presence, although I doubt they would have given a serious discount.. For me the visits to the dealerships are not an enjoyable experience....A good salesman needs to teach their produce and make it something that is a fair deal, not make the customer have to fight for a fair deal...Sickening Tony PS Howard if you decide to buy the Porsche make sure you spring for the pwerful engine---you won`t be happy unless you have it
Agree, though I would strongly suggest that anyone seriously considering the M wait for the next generation car due in another year or so. The 7-speed available on the M35 does correct one of the car's major faults, but it still falls down a bit on refinement when compared to something like the A6 3.0T.
The upcoming M37 is something I'm looking forward to testing.
The 2 Porsche sales guys I dealt with made me not want to go back. If either of those guys offered me a friendly test drive, things might be different. I don't beg. :shades:
I would have to imagine that automobile sales departments in general, inclusive of most marques, are currently injected with more-than-typical anxiety over the economy... IOW, many, if not most, of the sales folks are probably a little more desperate due to the slower sales, and are therefore more prone to being "aggressive and hungry", as you describe it.
Granted, some sales agents are always like that, but this current situation really puts many of the better sales agents under tremendous pressure. It's a shame.
I know it's hard to feel sorry for car salesmen... LOL... but I guess I do.
The 2 Porsche sales guys I dealt with made me not want to go back. If either of those guys offered me a friendly test drive, things might be different. I don't beg.
BTW, the Porsche sales guys at the dealership I have used are pretty laid back and generally nice guys. You would like them. They would have tossed you a set of keys and said "have fun... see you later!"
TM
My BMW salesman from 1996-2008 did just that! It was terrific. I'd show my face. He'd ask me what I want to drive and he simply tossed me the keys. No pressure.
Last summer I came there to drive a 328i sedan and found "Vinny" was moved to the lease termination building way back behind the main building. He had his own desk but nobody else was there. I asked him what goes, and he told me "I prefer it here since it is much less hectic." I was disappointed in his answer because his location guaranteed him salesman suicide with absolutely no customer traffic and I couldn't believe he thought so little of me that I would accept his response as credible. This time he had to go along with me for the test drive and in the car when I pressed him further, he told me the place was under new management. After I left, I figured this guy must be on the way out, but he was too ashamed to tell me.
Sure enough, I called back a month later to bargain with him on price and was told "Vinny no longer works here." I don't know the whole story, but to place a long-term sales employee in a back building was humiliating and suicidal to his commission business; might as well require him to wear a dunce cap!
I severed my relationship with BMW of Sarasota after 12 years. I would never deal with them again.
Well said, Jim.
Like H said, no begging. If the salespeople mess it up, it's their loss, not ours. We can always buy something else, but they don't always get another customer that quickly :P
I don't feel sorry for the salespeople. True during these hard times the managers pressure them even more, but hey, they choose their jobs. If they can't handle the pressure, they should just leave. Besides, they should be mature enough to realize that such attitude will only make them lose even more sales (translation: the manager's gonna give you even harder times).
I do feel sorry for him, considering what they did to him. He was too nice a guy for BMW of Sarasota.
I hope all the car salesmen out there like Vinny survive through this economic mess, and I hope all those coyotes get what they deserve.
TM
I second that.
A few days after I found out about Vinny, a young brash new guy called me, and I asked him where Vinny went, that I wanted to say goodbye. He wouldn't tell me. I politely told him I was no longer interested in purchasing the 328i or any other BMW. (I left out the "from your dealership" part)
Several months later (October, 2008) I visited a different BMW store and bought my current 328i. This dealership is about 10 miles further away, but I needed a change that I could live with.
You will like the June Car & Driver... the BMW 328i is pitted against the Audi A4, the Infiniti G37 Sport, and the Acura TL.
And the winner is... 328i, of course.
:shades:
TM
Knowing how you enjoy the older cars, I wanted to pass on an experience I had yesterday.....While driving back to the house, I notice a collection of old Rolls Royces pulling into the parking lot of the theatre up here in N C...They were around twenty cars of the vintage 1925, and great lumbering beasts....The colors were as varied as those cars usuall are, very rich tans , yellows, greens etc, and what was surprising was how small the seating spaces were...I would guess not as large as an old MG...both fron and back seats... Also the rear seat was elevated just like todays Rolls .The canvas work was immaculate, and looking at the petals, they were worn but not excessively so.Extremely sturdy cars they are....The headlights were about a foot round, with opaic glass in them and the chrome , although shiny they had worn through the medallions, and you could see the copper or brass under the chrome....One owner told me all the bodies were the same, but a different coach builder did the bodies etc....The wheels were about a yard high with spokes, painted, and I frankly couldn`t imagine how they would hold up such a large body..Just amazing....The group came from all over North America, and trailored the cars to Winston Salem then drove uphere to tour the mountains for a week or so..Unfortunately yesterday the Heavens opened up, and today also,,,,This sort of reminded me of your weekend where you ran into the Ferrari club group....Believe me these were just as fascinating, as they were designed to go mostly on dirt roads, and appeared to have camping gear storage compartment, along with trunks etc.....All in all a fascinating and fun loving group of people.....Tony
The as tested MSRP of the 328i was $36,475. The G37 MSRP was $40,585. The MSRP of the A4 was $47,075. The MSRP of the TL was $43,995. So there was plenty of $$$$ room available to make the 328i amenable to C&D by adding the premium package as well as the cold weather package-a total of $4000 more.
C&D ends this sorry excuse of a comparo referring to the 328i: "the luxury component has weakened significantly..." Well, DUH!!!! Why didn't you test the 328i with the premium package????
A sour victory at best! Not one of C&D's better days. :shades:
See you in Roma in 3 weeks as come from behind Barcelona takes on Manchester United.
You know, Malcolm Glazer, the owner of MU also owns the Tampa Bay Bucs which is Tampa's version of a last place American football team. Sure wish some of the MU magic would rub off on the hapless Bucs!
But just loving to shout out: Go Barça, go!! YOU CAN!!!
Regards,
Jose
MU's ok, but I prefer Arsenal's more agressive style. Chelsea and Liverpool? Urgh....
Greatest icing on the cake: Barca crushing archrival real Madrid 6-2 in their last battle. :shades:
Is always nice to hear from you. I'd have enjoyed too an experience like yours with 20 RR siblings. You know there is a RR private collection exposed in a small castle near my place. The collection ranges from very early RR's to current models. It includes a huge old piece that the Belgian royal family used for parades in the beginning of the 20th Century.
One think that strikes me the most when I pay visits to that museum is the RR contrast between chassis/body vs. upholstery, specially in the oldest items. Chassis/body is well lacqued and showing lots of polished brass and steel — yet it looks like a solid robust tractor, no matter the car size. Interiors are as delicate as puppets, with not only leather and wood but silk fabrics, embroideries and all sort of delicacies like those being in a cabinet of the epoque. Lots of details to look at.
Regards,
Jose
Barça is playing nicely this season. It must be said Chelsea defense managed to stop Barça offensive very well. But a good player can score a goal in two seconds, if he has the opportunity; Iniesta is a player solid as a rock, even if he is of small size, with great intelligence and the best technique.
Look for the video on the low right edge of this page:
link title
Regards,
Jose
PS for those in this thread not familiarized with Spanish soccer: Barça (pronounced Barsah) is pet name for Barcelona Football Club
I watched that match with my daughter, her boyfriend and some of their friends on a big home TV screen in Barcelona last Saturday. Real Madrid was really crushed. That was too bad for a proud team that has won 9 times the European Club Champions trophy: the all-winner being humiliated at home by its archirival. Barça played like in a dream. Since Johann Cruyff times, this is the offensive and 'touching' style loved by Barça players and supporters.
Coming back to last Saturday, we were 12 young persons and one older pal (me) watching the match. Eight of them were Barça supporters, four Real Madrid fans, and one (me) pushing both teams (I am not native from Madrid nor Barcelona) but desiring the Barça winning just because they played like angels. All females (five) were Barça supporters. Insults were flying from side to side, and lasted for a long while after the match. In the end everything was OK :confuse: and everyone desired a Barça triumph this year at Champion final.
And we went back pedaling to my daughter's. I have my underside in pain after biking a full weekend. :sick: (This is dedicated to Howard in particular.)
All the best for Barça in Rome!
Regards,
Jose
Sorry for responding to this so late, but I have to disagree. As an owner of a 550i Sport w/ the 6-speed manual, I feel qualified to say that the shift feel/action of that transmission is just average at best.
Cry as BMW fans might, that transmission/shifter is a compromise. It hinders the shifting enthusiasts for the sake of making the poseurs feel good.
As many issues as I have with Honda/Acura products, I must give them their due for making some of the best MTs in the world. Audi not so much on that front.
In the just released June 2009 issue, C&D picked the 328i sedan as number one (again!!) in its latest sport sedan comparo.
Noted by two testers:
"Clutch and shifter are the same as always, perfect"
"Best shifter and clutch on the planet"
The 328i beat the others in all-important fuel economy at 25 mpg over 350 miles.
I'm averaging 25.5 mpg since I purchased my 328i last October. :shades:
Anyways, moving back on topic. I saw my first G convertible on the way to SF airport. Nicer than in the pictures, but I'm still not sure I like it, the roof seems like it's gonna swallow every luggage space it has.
I'm sure the shifter and clutch of the 6 speed manual Cayman S is pretty good too!
I have come to the conclusion that with very few exceptions, convertibles are chick cars and we men should not be seen driving them: I don't see guys driving Boxsters; they choose the macho Cayman.
I think TM's 135i convertible and the Mazda MX 5 Miata are exceptions. Both are driver's cars. I'm sure there are others.
Please folks: do not flood me with e-mails. That's the way I see it. Every convertible in my community is "inhabited" by a female, typically driving the G_D awful Chrysler Sebring with one or two Boxsters thrown in for welcome contrast.
At 6'2", I don't think I would be a happy camper in the S2000, but for those of you guys lucky enough to fit, then add the S2000 to the 135i and MX 5 Miata as another serious driver's convertible.
And it is worth mentioning that men here drive most of the different marques... although the VW Beetle convertible is a chick's car by over 80%. The Toyota Solara convertible is another chick's car out here. The Jaguar XK and the Miata are split about 50/50. The Boxster is mostly a man's vehicle out here, as are most of the Porsches.
Here in California, a convertible is not a novelty... nor is it a chick's vehicle. It is more just a way of life... a part of our culture. In a similar way, when I visit "the South", where my wife is originally from, I am shocked by how many men drive pickup trucks. Heck, if you don't drive one in some areas, your manhood could be in question... LOL. True.
It just goes to show that geographic cultures can influence the vehicles we drive... and, sadly, even which gender drives them.
I guess it's just another reason I love California so much... even though we sure do have our share of "fruits and nuts"!... LOL.
:shades:
TM
Now that being said, I also have 2 convertibles so I may fall into the chick category as well, although both are stick shifts. I have an '08 335 which is a blast to drive, very fast and the hard top is nice. My "Fla" car is an '01 330 which is great, has low miles, but yes you are correct, when I drive it, I do see many similar cars driven by women. Sometimes I want to upgrade it, but since the sun shines almost everyday I'm down there, the car is nice to have.
It seems as though you keep referring back to the Cayman, it must still be on your mind, have you driven one yet?
Florida too is convertible country. I passed a 3 Series convertible, top down, the other day on I 75, a young girl driving, 3 friends along, having a blast doing 85 mph. I decided not to compete with her. Five minutes or so later, she's off on the shoulder waiting for the top to go up! LOL! She never caught me after that!
I believe the novelty quickly wears off with those topless beasts. My wife hates it when I open the 328i sunroof... so I mostly drive the 328i by myself with sunroof and all windows open for local driving.
So many of these guys with pickup trucks take almost orgasmic pleasure in peeling away from me at a red light. Most of the time I simply let them go. So tired of the same game over and over again! Some of these crackers should get a life!
Smart move getting the 135i cab. Nobody would mistake that for a chick car.
The Cayman is simply the best thing Porsche has ever done, IMO-for it gave access to a true Porsche sports car that before the Cayman's existence, could only be fantasized about by upper middle class driving enthusiasts, who couldn't afford a 911. 2007 used Caymans can be had for as little as $35k-$37k.
A 335i convertible proudly takes its place on the gentleman's list alongside the Miata, 135i and S 2000.
The only BMW I would not place on the list would be the 328i convertible because whenever I see one, a beautiful young woman is driving it. They can be a distraction on the interstate!
You are quite perceptive. I have Cayman fever, but I will get totally soaked if I trade in the 328i now. I've decided to wait until car sales pick up a bit and I may get more for the 328i. The last thing dealers need right now is another 328i on their lot.
I'm not suffering with the 328i sedan, but it is a letdown. The first time I can say that about any of my 4 BMW's. It doesn't have that "driving on rails" feeling I got so used to. Could be the run-flats, but I'm not sure.
http://www.vulcanmotorclub.com/membership_pricing.php
Hey Howard... Now THAT's a girl's car!!
TM
Every Porsche is a man's car, and I won't see it any other way. The 328i convertible, OTOH, is absolutely perfect for framing a pretty face.
TM
3-series... about 50-50.
Audi seems to have experienced the major shift, A4 convertibles were mostly female driven, while the upcoming A5 convertible got more male customers waiting in line, at least in my area.
I kinda agree that the novelty of having a convertible sours up quickly when you're a driving enthusiast or a long distance commuter. That's where a hard convertible top comes in handy :shades:
HWASEONG, South Korea — With Hyundai having found unlikely success selling luxury cars in the U.S., now it's toying with the idea of moving up in price point again — to $75,000 sedans.
It's exploring whether Equus, an updated large sedan that just went on sale in South Korea, can take on the BMW 7 Series, Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Lexus LS 460L in America
link title
TM
Regards,
OW
Like I said, the open-air novelty of the Boxster would wear off quickly, not to mention the potential vandalism threat of having a canvas roof on a vehicle sure to draw attention to itself when parked in an area where folks may have skipped the college course on art appreciation and in addition, the possible damage to the seats due to the sun radiating down on them over time.
Cobalt blue, in a Cayman please, preferably with PASM.
I do admit the Genesis isn't so bad, though I much prefer the Gen coupe, the first Korean car ever to make my head turn. :shades: