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Regards,
Jose
Also agree, but, if you have to consider the costs, one might not should be even shopping in this area. If one gets in over one's head, guess who's problem that is?
It's a luxury expense, much like a vacation. You lose money, but have a great time doing it.
dewey.
I remembered owning a Corolla for five not so exiciting years and 60K miles, guess what the depreciation was, about 1.5K a year. Yep, a 15K car was sold at just over 9K five years later, and the guy who bought it thought he got a good deal :surprise:
Anyways, did I miss anything big?
There's a difference between a car that can be expensive to maintain as it ages and a lemon. My S6 is likely to be considerably more expensive to keep running past 100K than say, a Lexus ES. I'm well aware of that, and have no intention of keeping it that long. That's not to say I would put up with an experience like your 335i just because I like driving it. If it was constantly in the shop it would be gone by now, I would be soured on Audi for quite some time, and I would probably be driving an M35x right now.
That was my experience with Mercedes in the early 90's, and I still have little interest in their products partially because of that, and it was long before Mercedes quality really dropped off a cliff around 2000 or so.
For someone looking for a 10 year, 150K mile luxury car, buy a Lexus. If you want to enjoy driving it, buy an Infiniti. This type of owner does not represent the majority of buyers though, not even close. The vast majority are going to own their cars for 6 years or less, and in that case, a German car is quite reasonable to consider. Both Lexus and Infiniti have nothing - nothing - on the S4 at $45K.
Based on the specs I saw, neither the BMW 335xi, nor the Acura TL SHL would match the S4 at 45K.
Lexus probably will do nothing, and Infiniti will borrow some GT-R technologies for the G40x to counter Audi.
I don't even know what MB has to match this beast in price and performance.
Although I have been thinking of the diesel Mercedes, I should clarify that the Audi has been the most reliable car I have owned ever....It has had only one minor thing that I can remember off hand, and I sure hope that continues to be true....My wife`s BMW has had several small things, and the major roof drain plugging up and flooding the electronics, so it doesn`t get the check mark....
I might very well get another Audi, or a lexus..Two names that I have had good results with, but it would be nice to have a bit of a change in the styling department..
Good luck on the new tires
Tony, I know we often rely on our individual ownership experiences, but no matter how we slice it, overall reliability statistics are impossible to ignore. Our limited exposure to a handful of vehicles is simply not a large enough sample to draw any statistically relevant conclusions.
Sure, if we liked a vehicle and/or its service experience, then we are more likely to stay with the same brand... but just as Dewey found out, you never know when one of 'em is going to betray you. In addition to that, sometimes a new model release can result in a greater number of problems within that first year or two.
It's partly a matter of luck... we might get a vehicle that was designed well, assembled well, with no defective parts. That's why even if we get a vehicle that Consumer Reports gives praise for its reliability, we can still end up with lots of problems... and/or we can get a vehicle that they warn against, yet it never gives us any trouble.
In a recent conversation, I was speaking with a gentleman who claimed that his former Range Rover never gave him any trouble, and he was thinking of getting another one. His fortunate experience is not a genuine measurement of the reliability of Range Rover vehicles, yet he is considering getting another one.
So... even though you've had good experiences with Audi and Lexus, I have a hard time thinking that those experiences represent any greater assurance that your next vehicle will be as reliable. But it does show that you were satisfied and enjoyed them... and that says plenty in my opinion. So... continue to enjoy your vehicles, but please be careful not to expect the new ones to always be as reliable as the last ones were... 'cause you can never really know for certain that one of 'em isn't going to bite you. Regardless, enjoyment is the key... IMHO.
TM
Doesn't seem too likely at this point. Infiniti is working on a significant model expansion, but they have made no noises as far as I'm aware about trying to make IS-F style performance variants. In any case, we won't see a new G anything before 2012.
With the S4 taking over the role of the A4 3.2, MB's 3.5L is now the weakest engine in the entry-lux class. The C350 is totally outmatched by the S4, and the C63 is $60K.
I may remember that one minor thing, the problem with the nav screen not popping out? The pop-up nav screen was one of the two things I didn't like about the inside of the A8. I think it looks better incorporated into the dash. The other was the rear visibility hindered by the rear seat head rests. I almost bought this car but realized I didn't need anything so large for my needs.
Variety is the spice of life.
Bingo!
BTW, you helped talk me into Citigroup. Bought in at 4.20 though. Still enjoying so far.! :shades:
That's awesome! I hope you keep Citi for the long haul, and don't let it go... even though some rough road might be ahead. In three years you will be smiling from ear to ear.
As far as AIG goes... those of you that took my recommendation enjoyed the monstrous rewards in just one week!!! It was all over the television this week. But, if you did buy it, I do think that you might want to sell it and enjoy those huge profits, as the fundamentals aren't there to support that kind of massive move. I sold it today and made a freakin TON of green in only one week. Unbelievable!!
Hate to say it, but I think the market may have gotten a little ahead of itself and a reasonable market pullback could be in the cards soon.(Maybe October or earlier, or even both times... I find October to be a tricky month for stocks). If so... wait until the pullback is over and then take the opportunity to buy more stocks. Check out Hartford (HIG) if there is a dip.
Oh... in case you are interested... my next recommendation (again)... GE !! I know some of the guys here don't like it, but take a good look at its long-term historical chart, and you might see why I am very focused on it. If it dips enough with a market pullback that includes the financials, then I'm going to buy the heck out if it.
And, if Citi dips, do the obvious... buy more!
TM
It's a luxury expense, much like a vacation. You lose money, but have a great time doing it. [rockshocka1]
Regardless, enjoyment is the key. [Tagman]
Bingo! [rockshocka1]
I cannot agree more to the above said; having great time while losing money is human nature at its best . :sick:
Still, others have it at casinos.
Problem is not losing more money than that calculated. And balancing time for earning with time for losing (both in superficial and more serious pits).
Regards,
Jose
Well, styling is not the current M's forte, and it has plenty of other flaws as well, but out of the three Japanese entries in the mid-lux field, it's the only one with a driving experience that doesn't make you want to kill yourself. The GS and RL really are that bad.
I've only seen concept renderings of the new M since nothing has actually been built yet, but it looks like the direction they are going with it is more of a big G. It's much better than the current blocky version which hasn't aged well at all, but I'll have to see a real one before I can make up my mind about it.
The G and the FX aren't great on the inside, but Infiniti proved they could make a world class interior in the EX35, and the new M blows that out of the water. It's better than the E, better than the 2011 5 series, and Audi is going to have to work hard to do better than this.
Here's a link to an HD res picture. You really need to see the details up close rather than trying to squeeze it into the forum frame.
http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/2011-infiniti-m/2011-infiniti-m-04.jpg
Hope the real thing matches the virtual rendering.
Regards,
OW
If I were to nit-pick, I'd prefer to see an electronic parking brake. Jaguar has spoiled me on that one.
Thanks for the terrific pic. Now, if we could just put that interior inside a (fill in the blank)
TM
Regarding the Genesis... Isn't it about time I get to say "I told ya so?" Not you personally... because IIRC, you agreed with me from the beginning... but to those well-intentioned folks here that just couldn't see that the Genesis was going to be a slam dunk.
The overstated reasons, such as "it's only a Hyundai", and "who's gonna buy it when there are other choices?" just didn't hold water. The formula for Genesis is all too obvious and previously proven... the Genesis is a clear value unlike anything since the first Lexus LS. And, not just a value, but it is a value with plenty enough appeal and substantial vehicle behind it to propel it to its sales success. A very notable achievement indeed.
TM
I appreciate you well penned imput , and agree with al your logic...All right on, therefore this is why I am asking for imput, as I sure hate making mistakes.......The time for this imput is now, before I have really gotten my act in forward motion.......I`m going to find a filling station and research the trouble it might be to just fill up, and do the smell test again.....Think through my thought process and hopefully with more imput from people on this board, get the idea in forward motion....Thanks Tony
One of my reservation about the Mercedes is the dealership, and Infinity is owned by the same person....My wife didn`t complain about them, but long long ago, they were a bad act to deal with..In time I`m going to re check all of them out, and at that time I`l walk next door (with prejudice) and see how I feel..Things change, and I can also..
The large rear headrests are very poor , but I have gotten use to them...and the screen that pops up is fine as I don`t use it and therefore I don`t have to look at the tv screen all the time
Indeed. They've done a masterful job at containing the button explosion common to this class, and the buttons and switchgear that are there at least look German quality, unlike the el cheap-o buttons in the EX and FX which were pulled directly from the G.
The foot brake is pretty lame at this class and price level, but it's forgivable if they can deliver this car with 330 and 400+hp for thousands less than a 5.
On the other hand, if a gorgeous car has a compromised interior, I'd be disappointed, but I'd still be a player.
Now, beyond the interior/exterior, the vehicle must still live up to the level of driveability I'd expect for the particular category of vehicle being considered.
I suppose there are some that would put the priority on the interior... but I guess I must be too "vehicle-superficial" for that... LOL. I prefer the vehicle to look great... assuming I had to choose between the two, of course. Best would be to get gorgeous interior and exterior.
TM
I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of. As much as people like to rationalize "I want practicality, good fuel economy, etc." most of us actually buy our cars based on whether we like the way they look or not. Except for the people who bought Azteks.
I don't care if the Acura ZDX had a better interior than the A8 or the V12 CL, it's SO UGLY that there's just no way I could ever buy one.
Is it an "Asian"factor or is it a "stupid" factor? Or... is it a "stupid Asian" factor? Seriously, how is this even possible? How does a major global company give the green light for a car (or ANY product for that matter) that is essentially disliked by most consumers? And, this isn't the first time this has happened. It is not a particularly rare event. It is a VERY costly mistake that continues to occur within the auto industry (and elsewhere).
TM
Regards,
OW
The RL is down 62.4% year/year...which is no real surprise since the Accord is an arguably better design for half the price.
Regards,
OW
Unaware EGO! Assuming anything will sell regardless of the design.
Regards,
OW
That might be true in warmer climes, but the absence of an AWD option is just killing Genesis sales in the snow belt.
Even here in the NY metro area, where we get no more than 1 or 2 significant winter storms every couple of years, most buyers won't even look at an RWD car. I almost never see a non-x Infiniti G or M, a Mercedes not equipped with 4-matic or a BMW that isn't an xi. While I happen to believe that the benefits of AWD are oversold - particularly here, in the mid-Atlantic region, where the winters tend to be mild - I can't argue with the marketplace. The same consumer preferences that have sharply boosted Audi sales over the past 5 years have confined the Genesis to niche status.
In the year that's passed since Hyundai introduced the Genesis, I've seen few than 10. I've spotted more Bentleys than Gens during the same time span. (What is the plural of "Genesis", anyway?) It may not be an out-and-out failure, but it's not even remotely close to being a "slam dunk". (A veteran Hyundai salesman even told me that he almost never sells a Genesis to customers who are also interested in the Infiniti M.)
If Hyundai wants to sell premium cars in meaningful numbers north of the Mason-Dixon line, it simply must offer an AWD option.
But, seriously, no matter where they build their studio, I have a very strong hunch that the same idiot(s) would ultimately still be masterminding the madness.
So... where's the market research? Too expensive? Would they rather risk the investment in all the tooling and production of an ugly loser than to spend the bucks up front and dial in a winner for themselves?
Idiots.
TM
It certainly makes the Bangle Bustle look awfully tame by comparison, and there was a huge amount of uproar about that. I think the only reason the entire automotive press hasn't collectively ripped them to shreds is that ultimately nobody really cares about Acura.
Yes, for those that haven't seen the car yet, here are the exterior shots (renderings) of the new M Infiniti has released so far.
http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/2011-infiniti-m/2011-infiniti-m-01.jpg
http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/2011-infiniti-m/2011-infiniti-m-02.jpg
http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/2011-infiniti-m/2011-infiniti-m-03.jpg
Because in the final analysis, sadly and tragically... Acura itself doesn't care enough about Acura.
TM
Ford: Mustang, T-Bird, GT
GM: Camaro, CTS (1st gen, yeah I like that one better), Escalade, Tahoe
Chrysler: 300
Plus a few Chris Bangle designs (he is American right?)
The rest are bleak, including the California designed Matrix and Acura TL. What the heck.........
What I see is American designs are focusing way too much to be "distinctive" and totally forget to improve on the "aesthetically appealing" and "long lasting" part. :P
As far as "California" designed?... Haha... No way. Placing the same idiots inside a California facility and leaving control in Tokyo doesn't make it a "California" design.
If you need a genuine example of true "California" design, look no further than Silicon Valley's Apple Computer in Cupertino, California... whether or not you use their products, they are a real example.
It's one thing for a car to have boring or non-inspiring styling, but quite another to be repulsive and downright ugly.
TM
Well said.
I live in an import-friendly NYC suburb where the Genesis should sell like hot cakes. It's a stylish (even better looking in the metal than in photos) & luxurious sedan, well put together from 1st-rate materials, with plenty of power & a great price tag. Why, then, do I go a month or more without seeing one? It's telling that most of the few cars that I have seen were wearing Florida plates, suggesting that they belong to snowbirds, who typically drive south before Thanksgiving & stay until after Easter.
Unfortunately, most premium car buyers around here think that AWD is a vital necessity - right up there with the steering wheel, brakes, cup holders & Bluetooth. Hyundai has to decide if it wants to fight that perception or give into it by offering AWD.
Second, Honda also has zero experience in making a v8, and this is much harder than creating a RWD platform, so this one, if Honda ever plans to bring one to their lineup, will take quite a while.
Overall I think Honda's choosing to take it one step at a time after their pointless Ridgeline. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's pretty much a failure so far isn't it?
I wish that was the case, but the chief designer responsible for the "gladiator" or "beak" look is an Asian fellow. He was featured in an article when the new MDX came out.
I do think that we should be careful not to place an improper meaning behind pointing out that the designs are Asian, European, or American (incl. Californian). While valid points from a factual standpoint, ultimately all the designs are from people with their own design perspectives.
There is no doubt that cars from various countries of origin have a distinct flavor. Asian cars are generally recognized as such... just like Italian supercars are recongnized for what they are. Same goes for American and German cars.
That said, it is obvious that the Acura designs have an Asian look. Acura has more problems than their appearance. They still use cheap interior materials for the category of car they are attempting to be. Nissan, particularly with their Infiniti models, is spanking the competition in this department.
As far as the budget goes... it doesn't cost a whole lot more (or less) to create a "look" that is attractive or ugly. The design steps are pretty much the same. It's about doing the homework. Honda/Acura has the same opportunities as Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infiniti to design attractive vehicles with quality interiors. Heck, I'd venture to say that Honda's budget has historically been better than Nissan's, so I'm not about to give any excuse to Honda/Acura... and I'm surely not going to blame the State of California for Acura's Asian employee who designed that darned look to begin with.
Bottom line... The responsibility rests with corporate.
TM
Good point. The fact that they still think they can play in the big leagues as a "tier 1 brand" would be laughable if they weren't actually so deluded that they really think they can do it. Tier 1? With what? An Accord with some silver painted plastic in it? Sorry Acura, but even the S80 V8 AWD couldn't get Volvo out of tier 2 status.
European design centers can screw things up just as badly. The SC400 was designed by Toyota's Calty studio. The SC430 was designed in France.
I think the location of a design is almost irrelevant. It comes down to the people in charge. Walter de'Silva is doing fantastic work for the VWAG. The guy at Mercedes who's on his '80s kick, not so much.
I agree... They aren't even close to tier 1. Beyond the horrible appearance and terrible interior materials, their powertrains and handling have great potential, yet there isn't an Acura in existence that approaches a buttery smooth or quiet ride.
TM
It's not for a lack of resources. You don't get into F1 if you don't have plenty of cash. It's the management and the Honda philosophy that's gotten in the way. Honda considers itself to be a company focused on efficiency, and they just don't want to do a V8. There will never be a Honda competitor for the Tundra, even if they had unlimited funds to make it. It's just not in their DNA. Honda's best work is in small cars like the Civic and Fit. The bigger you go, the more mediocre they get.
Yeah they hired a new design guy recently, who stuck smiley faces on all of their cars. Not a positive direction. Supposedly he's already gone.
Just buy one from Yamaha. That's what Volvo did. Honda engineers are some of the best in the world, and I think if "make a V8 and a large Nissan FM style RWD platform" came down from the top, they could do it without issue. The problem is that management will not issue those orders.
With a beak like that, it's inexcusable to allow it to be replicated across the line. There should be no surprises, therefore, that sales continue to slump.
As LG explained, the RL is the best worst example.
Regards,
OW
I do not intend to incite a debate again regarding RWD/AWD. The market speaks for itself as you have duly noted. The Genesis would do well to add AWD as Infiniti is planning to add AWD to the G37 coupe as well.
Regards,
OW