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  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Apparently the symbols are some kind of enhancement.

    Reminds of cars being able to park themselves.

    AN enhancement we neither needed nor wanted....
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Have you have stopped and restarted the browser on your work computer since they showed up yesterday? If so, it sounds like that particular browser is not handling the display correctly. Please report that in the Software discussion so that TPTB can figure it out.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    They are tools which allow people to save interesting posts or discussions to various bookmarking services. If you are interested you can click on one to investigate. If you are not interested, please feel free to ignore them! :)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I had the same problem and had to reboot the computer to fix.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    "I wish I were some place else, like home."

    I'm guessing you have been transplanted to Arizona from Canada? The land of the MDX "Elite": one of 2 SUV's I am looking forward to testing in early 2008.

    I feel your pain... In Tampa we have 2 seasons: uncomfortable and excruciating!
    Totally uninhabitable without AC... but, a great place for the 335i hardtop convertible and Tagman's 911! :)

    When I saw that quintet of crazy psychedelic graffiti appearing at the bottom of each post, I attributed it to the extra strong rum cake my wife made. But, you guys are seeing it too? :confuse:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    They are tools which allow people to save interesting posts or discussions to various bookmarking services. If you are interested you can click on one to investigate. If you are not interested, please feel free to ignore them!

    It would be nice if there was a rollover explaining what they actually do. You can't be too careful on the net these days.
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Agreed.

    I think we all trust Edmunds as a site and it is a little disconcerting to have some icons show up. A little bit of effort towards roll-out?
    I bet all the Hosts are spending more time explaining than they would like...

    It sounds like we have a lot of transplanted cool weather folks. I would be comfortable in 50f and cloudy, somehow I ended up in 95f and humid. It's pointless to have a convertible here, it's too hot from June through October to enjoy.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Since the diesel versus hybrid topic has been neglected here for the past 15 hours I thought posting this article would add some novelty. :P

    DIESELS SET TO OUT-STRIP HYBRIDS IN ACCELERATING US GROWTH

    Release date: 24 May 2007

    With US regulators looking to revise fuel economy standards amid concerns for energy security and greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, research published today by UBS and Ricardo points to combined annual diesel and hybrid gasoline vehicle sales in the US of 2.7 million by 2012. The Ricardo/UBS research report "Is Diesel set to boom in the US?" sets out the legislative and consumer drivers of engine technology for the North American automotive market over the coming decade, as well as the many candidate technologies available for future vehicle products.

    At present, hybrid gasoline technology appears to be the preferred route in the US, not least due to its attraction as a visible badge of green awareness amongst higher income purchasers. Many OEMs plan to launch hybrid products in the next few years, but the report highlights that this technology faces substantial manufacturing cost penalties which are unlikely to be eroded even in mass production. Diesel has a clear cost advantage over hybrid, even when fitted with the type of complex exhaust after-treatment technologies necessary to meet future, more stringent emissions regulations.

    Diesel already dominates in Europe. The conditions may now be right for a big acceleration in diesel sales in the North American market. Ricardo forecasts that combined diesel and hybrid gasoline will represent 15 per cent of the US light vehicle market by 2012, with sales of diesels outstripping gasoline hybrids by 1.5 million units versus 1.2 million. UBS highlights that European automakers and a number of global suppliers look set to benefit from the diesel trend.

    link title
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,214
    If it makes you feel better, it was in the mid 90s here in Boston today. I spent 3+ hours after work washing/Zaino-ing the Abyss Blue TL. In the words of the late, great Freddie Prinze (not the extraordinarly less talented Jr., of course.), "Loooking guuud!"

    One of the reasons I love New England: we get four seasons. Something to look forward to (or dread?). Let's you know that life is moving along. If indeed that's a good thing...

    Off to The Cape tomorrow. I wonder if it will be crowded? :cry:

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    When I saw that quintet of crazy psychedelic graffiti appearing at the bottom of each post, I attributed it to the extra strong rum cake my wife made. But, you guys are seeing it too?

    Extra strong rum cake? Nice wife. :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Dewey - I read that earlier and thought that perhaps more time was needed before posting about the diesels again, but the more I think about it, it's only going to become more and more relevant as time gets closer and closer to the actual events. Thanks for keeping it alive.

    I had some construction workers at the house today finishing up a little pet project of mine, and we were talking cars and trucks for a bit, and sure enough these guys know about diesels and are very interested in having more diesels to choose from. Believe me, this is the absolute tip of the iceberg. As time goes on over the next two years, all this baloney about the lack of marketing and awareness will totally disappear, and diesels will be in demand.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    hpowders - When I saw this I thought of you... Sounds interesting, but it might be too small though. Here's the link...

    link title

    This pic is just a photo rendering... in other words, it's a fake! But maybe the real car could look close enough.

    image

    Classy-looking convertible... but probably no twin-turbo to compare to the 335i... It would compare more to a 1-Series. Well, I guess that rules it out.

    In that case, maybe I should just delete this post. Nah... I'll leave it for you anyway.

    TagMan
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Something is really messed up with that report. Go to page 53, where the key point is made with the chapter title "market forecasts: Diesel outperforms hybrid" The details however are not adding up to the chapter title, immediately below the chapter title we have this paragraph:

    " . . . We expect substantial sales growth for both powertrain sales types. We forecast growth from the current level of 800,000 (545,000 diesel and 255 hybrid) to 2.7 million units in 2012 . . . We expect diese sales (1.5 million) to oustrip hybrids (1.2 million) due to . . . "

    Okay, something is not right here: if diesels are currently outselling hybrids by over 2:1, and forecasted to have that lead cut down to 5:4, how is that diesel forecasted to outperform hybrids? Not to mention the round numbers of adding one million units to each type sound awefully like something pulled out of their own proverbial rear end :-) Methinks something really fishy is going on with that "research" . . . something along the lines of this:

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_13/b4027044.htm

    Perhaps UBS has some Euro carmaker bonds to unload?
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    The F3 is just going back to the BMW roots of these:

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/classics.cfm/classicid/5050328.001/country/gcf/BMW/50-years-of-the-bmw-isetta

    The riding mower is a whole new revolutionary line of cross-overs, crossing over all lines of sanity . . . It's a sport turf vehicle, never call it a lawn mower :-)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Classy-looking convertible... but probably no twin-turbo to compare to the 335i... It would compare more to a 1-Series. Well, I guess that rules it out.

    Seems kind of unnecessary to me, the A4 Cab is not exactly a "big" car. Audi could easily match the 335i by using their own twin turbos like the on the old 2.7T, but based on the A5's powertrains, it doesn't look like that is in the pipeline.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Seems kind of unnecessary to me, the A4 Cab is not exactly a "big" car.

    I thought the same thing at the time. Yeah, what's with the idea of so many different models that aren't really so different?

    TagMan
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Brightness04,
    it is nice to see the Isetta again, I thank you for the opportunity. One of them was the first car I "owned". Rather, I should say I was a co-owner together with two more school mates. We bought that rusty 3rd-hand remain from a mechanic. A tiny bunch of Pesetas, no papers at all, and the triciyle was with us. We had not even driving licenses. One month later the car and two of us slowly de-railed out of a rural-road corner into a wheat field. We were lucky that the field belonged to my mate´s uncle. That Isetta never rode further. May be the skeleton is still there.

    Laurasdada,
    I am also a devoted skier. You should come to the Pirynees ski resorts. They are not as big as those in the Alpes, but they are nicer :blush: Looking at all those things and toys any carmaker sell nowadays with the brand logo on them,I wonder if BMW will open a line of BMW skis :shades:

    TagMan,
    agreed. That BMW Series 3 is truly horrible. Its ugliness is only second to that of the Renault Megane you can see by here too much frequently.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    A special holiday recipe. Light on the cake! :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    Thanks for the photo. It does look a bit small, though stylish, I'm sure. I'll see how much I like the 335i convertible. It would have to really impress me, though.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Okay, something is not right here: if diesels are currently outselling hybrids by over 2:1, and forecasted to have that lead cut down to 5:4, how is that diesel forecasted to outperform hybrids?

    I see your point but I think you're making too much out of it. In the end diesel will still outsell hybrids if goes according to forecast. They also said this in favor of hybrids:

    "There are few obstacles that stand in the way of hybrid growth other than cost. Consumer awareness is high, product availability is increasing and hybrids meet all emissions regulations."

    There is nothing out of line there. If you want to make a conspiracy theory out of the insider trading issue that's another story but applying it to this could be a stretch.

    I find conspiracy theories entertaining. After all it's the stuff novels and movies are made from--creative, fertile imaginations. Throw some facts in there as a catalyst and it gets real tasty.

    ;-)
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I notice the links don't open to a separate window anymore. Yup, just like iDrive, adds more clicks to our lives. :sick:
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    The point being that there's hardly any prediction in there! The report spends most of its volume on why in the author's opinion, diesel has some advantages over hybrid. Then it made the implicit assumption that diesels and hybrids will increase in sales by roughly the same numerical amount, each adding about 1 million units in the next 5 years. So the current 545k diesels and 255k hybrids will translate to 1.5mil diesels and 1.2 hybrids in 2012. That's not research (outside the Wall Street shale game anyway). The conclusion was assumed before any derivation is done! Given how volatile new product introduction is, the exercise is a complete farce. If I had time to place bets, my guess is that there's some serious bump in the road coming up for diesels, and the banker is in a hurry to sell some paper products before the news is out . . . especially given how tame the real content of the "prediction" is (probably restrained by the people who actually have some clue on the engineering details) vs. the sensationalistic spin being put on it.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I don't know the reason that article throws those numbers around like that, but I do know that recently there was an article that used percentage growth to mathematically indicate that diesels were selling faster than hybrids. And it was true.

    But, you know THAT old math trick, because you've used it yourself in the past. It's the one the politicians resort to the most.

    When a new car model is introduced, it often shows a tremendous percentage growth, even though the number of units sold might be low. From a percentage basis, it is possible that is the best seller, or that it has been selling at twice, or even ten times, the rate of another model, depending upon the percentage of growth. That "rate" however, is a percentage rate, not number of units sold.

    So, when it comes to data and statistics, you are definately one guy that knows just as well as anyone here how they can be manipulated.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I'll see how much I like the 335i convertible. It would have to really impress me, though.

    That's how I see it. It's a car I'd like to own, but next to the Carrera, I'd much prefer to park a diesel SUV that I can use when the Carrera is parked. Of course, that would then force me to clean out my garage. :)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    When 2008 rolls around, I will head down to the dealer and check out all variants of the 335i. Too soon at this time.

    My 2-car garage consists of the 545i, 2 golf carts, bikes and a lot of golf clubs. I do wish I had a 3-car garage, or at least a 2-car with a mini-garage attachment just for the carts.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Yeah, the more garage the better... in most cases. Heck, if I went to my generous 5-car to a 10, I guarantee I'd still only sqeeze two cars in, and I'd be able to go into the junk business with the rest of the garage just chock full of "stuff".

    Gosh, I hate this feeling that it's '09, not 08, that's going to offer some of the models I'd like to own.

    It's like a very s--l--o--w countdown...

    Most of the diesel SUVs, for example, won't be available here in California until the '09 model year. :cry:

    Maybe, some early '09 release dates? I can only hope.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I was realizing lately that it's been a long time now that you've had that 5-Series, and if some of our posters were right, you'd have had to replace quite a bit of that car by now. Yet, we haven't heard a word from you about all the parts replacement and service issues that your Bimmer has been plagued with. Gosh, after all you must have endured with that 5-Series, I imagine you would NEVER consider getting another BMW for the rest of your life! You must be keeping all those problems a secret! C'mon tell the truth... it can't be that good a car... afterall, it's a BMW. Consumer Reports credibility is on the line here as well. ;)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,331
    LOL!! :)

    The 545i has behaved itself flawlessly.

    I brought it in for its 15k "oil" change a couple of months ago and that's it. I have it for 22 months now.

    I established my relationship with BMW in 1993 and I am one very satisfied customer.

    The fact that BMW has a comprehensive 4 year, 50,000 mile full maintenance program speaks volumes about their commitment to building quality vehicles.

    If the horror stories were true, BMW would be liquidating their assets instead of healthfully thriving as one of the auto industry's great success stories.

    I decided to lease the 545i when CR made a point of singling out the 5 Series V8 to get the dreaded "black circle" for being in the category of most unreliable vehicles.

    I have discovered CR's reliability rankings to be a reliable contrary indicator. For me, CR has never been right.

    BMW has deservedly earned my loyalty and I will drive next year's versions of the three 335i's, the 535i, the X3, X5 and the 535id if it is available by the summer of 2008.

    I plan to also check out the MDX Sport because I want to experience Acura's SH-AWD system that all the reviewers are raving about and compare its handling to the X5.

    In the next issue, CR will be revealing its test results of the MDX Tech. If the magazine projects excellent reliability for it, I will place myself on maximum alert mode for the drivers' door handle to fall off when I check it out. ;)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    or how they don't...

    Many of you have heard this before, but in case anyone here hasn't, I'll repeat it again. If you have questions, suggestions, complaints or whatever about the way things work here, changes that show up, bugs that appear, etc., the place to post about them is the Software discussion.

    I know it's easier to just post your issue where you happen to be, but you can post here or in any other discussion about them all day long and your posts will not be seen by anyone who can make a difference. So you are wasting your time, unfortunately.

    Lexusguy, I think you make a great suggestion about the rollover and hope you will post it where it's appropriate. Designman I do just happen to know about the links no longer opening in a separate window because I reported that myself. It is a bug and it will be fixed, but apparently it will take a month or so. I know nothing else, so if you want to ask or say more please go to that link.

    'Scuse the interruption for the PSA. :)
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I have an ongoing argument about the future hybrid batteries and hybrids in general with wwest on the RX400H forum. I am not very knowledgeable about hybrid batteries and electronics. I would appreciate it if some of you "great minds" in this field get on that forum and make your points. I am more or less trying to use common sense with him. Here is the link.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?displayRecent@@.ef2229b
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I know about that thread. I ain't going there though because it involves more clicks. I'll just roll with whatever comes and trust that someone will sort it out. After all, this is the worst thing in life!

    Designman I do just happen to know about the links no longer opening in a separate window because I reported that myself. It is a bug and it will be fixed, but apparently it will take a month or so.

    You see, it all comes out in the wash!

    ;-)
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Hello Cyclone4

    You have picked one of the most intelligent and versed individuals on a Lexus I have come across...When I thought about the Lexus suv, he was posting in.. another league...I learned alot just reading what he said...There are many people on this board who imo are very astute, but not in his league, on that subject.....Tony
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I went over and checked him out ---several years ago he was smart, and now he is smarter...There is alot to learn from him...Tony ps just keep asking as you have, and an answer will be forthcoming he is a nice person
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    But there are also unknown unknowns,
    The ones we don't know
    We don't know.


    Donald Rumsfeld


    Almost every single long term forecast created by finacial analysts, so-called technology or industry experts, revered mystics, economists, politicians, professional fortune tellers and last but not least Edmunds forum members are BUNK. And the reasons they're BUNK is because the future is always riddled with unknown unknowns.

    But this diesel versus hybrid forecast done by UBS/Ricardo deals very well with how diesel or hybrid sales will be impacted by the known unknowns like legislation, fuel prices, consumer perceptions, diesel hybrids and technologies in general.

    I agree their numbers are pie in the sky nonsense but certainly not with their following conclusions:

    1) Diesels are likely to be more successful than hybrids in the USA because of costs.

    2)Diesels are far more more cost effective in bigger vehicles than hybrids. Most vehicles in the USA are big and that fact in itself suggests the sales advantages diesels will have over hybrids in the USA.

    Is it mere coincidence that Honda the most experienced car manufacturer worldwide of both hybrids and diesels will discontinue the hyrbid Honda Accord and focus instead on using hybrid drivetrains in small vehicles and diesel drivetrains in bigger vehicles? Is it mere coincidence that BMW plans to first introduce diesels for their bigger X5, 7 and 5 series models and introduce hybrids in their smaller 3 series and X3 models? l dont thinks so! Obviously there are cost advantages for bigger diesel vehicles and USA continues to favor bigger vehicles over smaller ones.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Obviously there are cost advantages for bigger diesel vehicles and USA loves bigger vehicles.

    Man, that's a simple and powerful truth.

    You are so right whereby you point out that in the final evolution of things here, the hybrids seem more effective in small cars, and the public's acceptance of them also seems to go along with that.

    Diesels, on the other hand, can be ANY size, and have been successfully perceived in all sorts of applications. VW with their little diesels, and Ford, Chevy, and Dodge trucks with their big powerful diesels. Heck, diesels have no limits at either end of the spectrum. How about a diesel semi truck? Or perhaps a locomotive?

    Yes, big SUVs can still exist because of diesels! Big trucks because of diesels! And small, mid-size, and full-size fuel-efficient diesel cars. Diesel... it's going to be the American way! Good for Canada, too! Europe already knows. ;)

    TagMan
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    "…Europe already knows."

    I do not know about the future, bien sure, but the present situation looks like…

    http://www.quadis.es/NASApp/quadis/ListadoOfertaOnline.do?canal=british

    (Jaguars offered by a nation-wide Spanish dealer for the next fortnight. As a way of example of what the current diesel/gas balance is over here. No competence is nonetheless intended with Edmunds :blush:;) )

    Regards,
    Jose
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Audi R 8

    http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en2.html

    I found it really cool.

    Jose
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    My suggestion is to recruit Brightness for your team.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I am more or less trying to use common sense...

    cyclone4 - I understand your situation. Common sense won't work... better to just let it go.
    I could give you some reasons, but if I did, the host would yank my post. ;)

    The very best thing you can do is to get some real information under your belt.
    Here's a couple of great places to start... very up-to-date and FACTUAL... with a few added comments at the end of some.

    Anyway, my friend, here you go:

    link title

    link title

    link title

    link title

    TagMan
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Okay, probably shouldn't but can't resist...

    Brightness, check this out. http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/12424/first-drive-2008-volkswagen-jetta-tdi.html

    I will give you that it is not in a luxury car and so doesn't truly belong in this thread but given the verbal jousting we went through, this looks suspiciously like a 50-state legal, non-Urea added diesel engine.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Diesel... it's going to be the American way! Good for Canada, too! Europe already knows.

    Just ask a MB or VW dealer in Canada and you will find out what big fans Canadians are for diesels.
    Recently the majority or VW sales in Canada were diesels. This changed when VW discontinued offering their diesel Passats and Golfs.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    All those cats with a letter "D". What a pretty site.

    As far as I know there is no news about Jaguar diesels in North America
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Brand what? Listen to this; according to Anderson Analytics latest brand origin study that sampled 1,000 US College students at over 375 US universities during the fall 2006 semester, 33.7% of the participants believed that Lexus is an American firm while 55,7% said that Hyundai’s Japanese. Forty-nine percent thought Swedish carmaker Volvo to be German while 58.4% said Land Rover is an American company. Saab, Swedish? Yeah right. 40.4% mistakenly thought that it’s a German car manufacture!
    "For the most part, this next generation of educated American consumers either have no clue where the brands they use come from or simply assume everything comes from the United States, Japan or Germany," said Tom H. C. Anderson, Managing Partner, Anderson Analytics.

    According to Anderson, while students’ ignorance for brand origin may a bliss in some cases –eg. most believe that Motorola is Japanese (…), country of origin plays an important part in making luxury goods and automobiles more exclusive and exotic. And vice-versa, may we add as Hyundai proves. From the 246 people who said Hyundai’s was Korean, just 42% of them thought Korea makes good products while 85% of them said Japan makes good products. From the 589 students who wrongly believed Hyundai’s Japanese, 83% of them believe that Japan makes great products while only 38% think Korean products are good. Go figure… Via:

    link title
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    BMW is renowned for building some of the best engines in the world. You just have to look at its recent standings in the International Engine of the Year awards, to see that BMW is on top of things when it comes to designing world-beating powerplants. However, other carmakers may not have to feel entirely downbeat because a German magazine is reporting that BMW is considering selling its engines to other makes.

    CEO Norbert Reithofer revealed to Germany’s Manager Magazin that BMW is looking at other sources of revenues for its long-term strategy, and selling engines was just one possibility.

    But don’t hold your breath waiting for the latest M division V8 to be sold as a crate engine to anyone willing to scoff up the cash. BMW would most likely sell its less premium engines, such as the four-cylinder units it already shares with Peugeot, and the markets with the greatest potential are more likely to be India and China’s rapidly growing auto sectors.

    link title
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I knew someone would come through in the clutch :) . Thanks Tag! All of these articles sound very promising to me for the near future of hybrid technology. This is what I have been lead to believe the past year or so. Why is wwest so negative about new battery technology and its use for hybrid vehicles? Oops! Never mind. I'm a little slow on this gorgeous Sunday in much of the upper Midwest. I'll let it go. However, if you think it might do some good, I'll leave it up to you to post these links on the RX400H Forum.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I knew someone would come through in the clutch . Thanks Tag! All of these articles sound very promising to me for the near future of hybrid technology. This is what I have been lead to believe the past year or so. Why is wwest so negative about new battery technology and its use for hybrid vehicles? Am I missing something?

    Do you mind if I post these links on the RX400H forum?


    Hey cyclone4, you are very welcome. Do what you want with the info I provided, but again I caution you that the RX400h forum isn't a true "hybrid" forum, and general battery discussions can end up a dead end in the long run, especially when you start arguing in circles with some of those posters. I've been through it before with "hybrid" minded posters that have very polarized perspectives... for reasons I can not fathom.

    Good luck, but no sense in frustrating yourself.

    Let me know how it goes.

    TagMan
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I should have refreshed the browser before I edited my post above. I did not realize you had already responded to my post. Thanks again for your help.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It's all good. Again, it's up to you. I just hate to see you get in there and get frustrated like that... when you can have intelligent discussions right here (most of the time). ;)

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I just read an interesting article in Top Gear about Peugeot's new challenger to Audi's R10. It's 5.5L diesel V12 makes 690hp and 885ft.lbs of torque. Instead of wasting their time with F1 and Nascar, I think Toyota should develop a HSD powered successor to the GT1 Le Mans car. No worries about trunk space or battery longevity, just see what the technology can do. Thats where the breakthroughs are going to be made.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    No worries about trunk space or battery longevity, just see what the technology can do.

    Good point. What CAN it really do is the yet unanswered question about HSD.

    TagMan
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