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Comments
Reminds of cars being able to park themselves.
AN enhancement we neither needed nor wanted....
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'm guessing you have been transplanted to Arizona from Canada? The land of the MDX "Elite": one of 2 SUV's I am looking forward to testing in early 2008.
I feel your pain... In Tampa we have 2 seasons: uncomfortable and excruciating!
Totally uninhabitable without AC... but, a great place for the 335i hardtop convertible and Tagman's 911!
When I saw that quintet of crazy psychedelic graffiti appearing at the bottom of each post, I attributed it to the extra strong rum cake my wife made. But, you guys are seeing it too? :confuse:
It would be nice if there was a rollover explaining what they actually do. You can't be too careful on the net these days.
I think we all trust Edmunds as a site and it is a little disconcerting to have some icons show up. A little bit of effort towards roll-out?
I bet all the Hosts are spending more time explaining than they would like...
It sounds like we have a lot of transplanted cool weather folks. I would be comfortable in 50f and cloudy, somehow I ended up in 95f and humid. It's pointless to have a convertible here, it's too hot from June through October to enjoy.
DIESELS SET TO OUT-STRIP HYBRIDS IN ACCELERATING US GROWTH
Release date: 24 May 2007
With US regulators looking to revise fuel economy standards amid concerns for energy security and greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, research published today by UBS and Ricardo points to combined annual diesel and hybrid gasoline vehicle sales in the US of 2.7 million by 2012. The Ricardo/UBS research report "Is Diesel set to boom in the US?" sets out the legislative and consumer drivers of engine technology for the North American automotive market over the coming decade, as well as the many candidate technologies available for future vehicle products.
At present, hybrid gasoline technology appears to be the preferred route in the US, not least due to its attraction as a visible badge of green awareness amongst higher income purchasers. Many OEMs plan to launch hybrid products in the next few years, but the report highlights that this technology faces substantial manufacturing cost penalties which are unlikely to be eroded even in mass production. Diesel has a clear cost advantage over hybrid, even when fitted with the type of complex exhaust after-treatment technologies necessary to meet future, more stringent emissions regulations.
Diesel already dominates in Europe. The conditions may now be right for a big acceleration in diesel sales in the North American market. Ricardo forecasts that combined diesel and hybrid gasoline will represent 15 per cent of the US light vehicle market by 2012, with sales of diesels outstripping gasoline hybrids by 1.5 million units versus 1.2 million. UBS highlights that European automakers and a number of global suppliers look set to benefit from the diesel trend.
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One of the reasons I love New England: we get four seasons. Something to look forward to (or dread?). Let's you know that life is moving along. If indeed that's a good thing...
Off to The Cape tomorrow. I wonder if it will be crowded?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Extra strong rum cake? Nice wife.
TagMan
I had some construction workers at the house today finishing up a little pet project of mine, and we were talking cars and trucks for a bit, and sure enough these guys know about diesels and are very interested in having more diesels to choose from. Believe me, this is the absolute tip of the iceberg. As time goes on over the next two years, all this baloney about the lack of marketing and awareness will totally disappear, and diesels will be in demand.
TagMan
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This pic is just a photo rendering... in other words, it's a fake! But maybe the real car could look close enough.
Classy-looking convertible... but probably no twin-turbo to compare to the 335i... It would compare more to a 1-Series. Well, I guess that rules it out.
In that case, maybe I should just delete this post. Nah... I'll leave it for you anyway.
TagMan
" . . . We expect substantial sales growth for both powertrain sales types. We forecast growth from the current level of 800,000 (545,000 diesel and 255 hybrid) to 2.7 million units in 2012 . . . We expect diese sales (1.5 million) to oustrip hybrids (1.2 million) due to . . . "
Okay, something is not right here: if diesels are currently outselling hybrids by over 2:1, and forecasted to have that lead cut down to 5:4, how is that diesel forecasted to outperform hybrids? Not to mention the round numbers of adding one million units to each type sound awefully like something pulled out of their own proverbial rear end :-) Methinks something really fishy is going on with that "research" . . . something along the lines of this:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_13/b4027044.htm
Perhaps UBS has some Euro carmaker bonds to unload?
http://www.worldcarfans.com/classics.cfm/classicid/5050328.001/country/gcf/BMW/50-years-of-the-bmw-isetta
The riding mower is a whole new revolutionary line of cross-overs, crossing over all lines of sanity . . . It's a sport turf vehicle, never call it a lawn mower :-)
Seems kind of unnecessary to me, the A4 Cab is not exactly a "big" car. Audi could easily match the 335i by using their own twin turbos like the on the old 2.7T, but based on the A5's powertrains, it doesn't look like that is in the pipeline.
I thought the same thing at the time. Yeah, what's with the idea of so many different models that aren't really so different?
TagMan
it is nice to see the Isetta again, I thank you for the opportunity. One of them was the first car I "owned". Rather, I should say I was a co-owner together with two more school mates. We bought that rusty 3rd-hand remain from a mechanic. A tiny bunch of Pesetas, no papers at all, and the triciyle was with us. We had not even driving licenses. One month later the car and two of us slowly de-railed out of a rural-road corner into a wheat field. We were lucky that the field belonged to my mate´s uncle. That Isetta never rode further. May be the skeleton is still there.
Laurasdada,
I am also a devoted skier. You should come to the Pirynees ski resorts. They are not as big as those in the Alpes, but they are nicer
TagMan,
agreed. That BMW Series 3 is truly horrible. Its ugliness is only second to that of the Renault Megane you can see by here too much frequently.
Regards,
Jose
I see your point but I think you're making too much out of it. In the end diesel will still outsell hybrids if goes according to forecast. They also said this in favor of hybrids:
"There are few obstacles that stand in the way of hybrid growth other than cost. Consumer awareness is high, product availability is increasing and hybrids meet all emissions regulations."
There is nothing out of line there. If you want to make a conspiracy theory out of the insider trading issue that's another story but applying it to this could be a stretch.
I find conspiracy theories entertaining. After all it's the stuff novels and movies are made from--creative, fertile imaginations. Throw some facts in there as a catalyst and it gets real tasty.
;-)
But, you know THAT old math trick, because you've used it yourself in the past. It's the one the politicians resort to the most.
When a new car model is introduced, it often shows a tremendous percentage growth, even though the number of units sold might be low. From a percentage basis, it is possible that is the best seller, or that it has been selling at twice, or even ten times, the rate of another model, depending upon the percentage of growth. That "rate" however, is a percentage rate, not number of units sold.
So, when it comes to data and statistics, you are definately one guy that knows just as well as anyone here how they can be manipulated.
TagMan
That's how I see it. It's a car I'd like to own, but next to the Carrera, I'd much prefer to park a diesel SUV that I can use when the Carrera is parked. Of course, that would then force me to clean out my garage.
TagMan
My 2-car garage consists of the 545i, 2 golf carts, bikes and a lot of golf clubs. I do wish I had a 3-car garage, or at least a 2-car with a mini-garage attachment just for the carts.
Gosh, I hate this feeling that it's '09, not 08, that's going to offer some of the models I'd like to own.
It's like a very s--l--o--w countdown...
Most of the diesel SUVs, for example, won't be available here in California until the '09 model year.
Maybe, some early '09 release dates? I can only hope.
TagMan
TagMan
The 545i has behaved itself flawlessly.
I brought it in for its 15k "oil" change a couple of months ago and that's it. I have it for 22 months now.
I established my relationship with BMW in 1993 and I am one very satisfied customer.
The fact that BMW has a comprehensive 4 year, 50,000 mile full maintenance program speaks volumes about their commitment to building quality vehicles.
If the horror stories were true, BMW would be liquidating their assets instead of healthfully thriving as one of the auto industry's great success stories.
I decided to lease the 545i when CR made a point of singling out the 5 Series V8 to get the dreaded "black circle" for being in the category of most unreliable vehicles.
I have discovered CR's reliability rankings to be a reliable contrary indicator. For me, CR has never been right.
BMW has deservedly earned my loyalty and I will drive next year's versions of the three 335i's, the 535i, the X3, X5 and the 535id if it is available by the summer of 2008.
I plan to also check out the MDX Sport because I want to experience Acura's SH-AWD system that all the reviewers are raving about and compare its handling to the X5.
In the next issue, CR will be revealing its test results of the MDX Tech. If the magazine projects excellent reliability for it, I will place myself on maximum alert mode for the drivers' door handle to fall off when I check it out.
Many of you have heard this before, but in case anyone here hasn't, I'll repeat it again. If you have questions, suggestions, complaints or whatever about the way things work here, changes that show up, bugs that appear, etc., the place to post about them is the Software discussion.
I know it's easier to just post your issue where you happen to be, but you can post here or in any other discussion about them all day long and your posts will not be seen by anyone who can make a difference. So you are wasting your time, unfortunately.
Lexusguy, I think you make a great suggestion about the rollover and hope you will post it where it's appropriate. Designman I do just happen to know about the links no longer opening in a separate window because I reported that myself. It is a bug and it will be fixed, but apparently it will take a month or so. I know nothing else, so if you want to ask or say more please go to that link.
'Scuse the interruption for the PSA.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?displayRecent@@.ef2229b
Designman I do just happen to know about the links no longer opening in a separate window because I reported that myself. It is a bug and it will be fixed, but apparently it will take a month or so.
You see, it all comes out in the wash!
;-)
You have picked one of the most intelligent and versed individuals on a Lexus I have come across...When I thought about the Lexus suv, he was posting in.. another league...I learned alot just reading what he said...There are many people on this board who imo are very astute, but not in his league, on that subject.....Tony
The ones we don't know
We don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld
Almost every single long term forecast created by finacial analysts, so-called technology or industry experts, revered mystics, economists, politicians, professional fortune tellers and last but not least Edmunds forum members are BUNK. And the reasons they're BUNK is because the future is always riddled with unknown unknowns.
But this diesel versus hybrid forecast done by UBS/Ricardo deals very well with how diesel or hybrid sales will be impacted by the known unknowns like legislation, fuel prices, consumer perceptions, diesel hybrids and technologies in general.
I agree their numbers are pie in the sky nonsense but certainly not with their following conclusions:
1) Diesels are likely to be more successful than hybrids in the USA because of costs.
2)Diesels are far more more cost effective in bigger vehicles than hybrids. Most vehicles in the USA are big and that fact in itself suggests the sales advantages diesels will have over hybrids in the USA.
Is it mere coincidence that Honda the most experienced car manufacturer worldwide of both hybrids and diesels will discontinue the hyrbid Honda Accord and focus instead on using hybrid drivetrains in small vehicles and diesel drivetrains in bigger vehicles? Is it mere coincidence that BMW plans to first introduce diesels for their bigger X5, 7 and 5 series models and introduce hybrids in their smaller 3 series and X3 models? l dont thinks so! Obviously there are cost advantages for bigger diesel vehicles and USA continues to favor bigger vehicles over smaller ones.
Man, that's a simple and powerful truth.
You are so right whereby you point out that in the final evolution of things here, the hybrids seem more effective in small cars, and the public's acceptance of them also seems to go along with that.
Diesels, on the other hand, can be ANY size, and have been successfully perceived in all sorts of applications. VW with their little diesels, and Ford, Chevy, and Dodge trucks with their big powerful diesels. Heck, diesels have no limits at either end of the spectrum. How about a diesel semi truck? Or perhaps a locomotive?
Yes, big SUVs can still exist because of diesels! Big trucks because of diesels! And small, mid-size, and full-size fuel-efficient diesel cars. Diesel... it's going to be the American way! Good for Canada, too! Europe already knows.
TagMan
I do not know about the future, bien sure, but the present situation looks like
http://www.quadis.es/NASApp/quadis/ListadoOfertaOnline.do?canal=british
(Jaguars offered by a nation-wide Spanish dealer for the next fortnight. As a way of example of what the current diesel/gas balance is over here. No competence is nonetheless intended with Edmunds
Regards,
Jose
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en2.html
I found it really cool.
Jose
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
cyclone4 - I understand your situation. Common sense won't work... better to just let it go.
I could give you some reasons, but if I did, the host would yank my post.
The very best thing you can do is to get some real information under your belt.
Here's a couple of great places to start... very up-to-date and FACTUAL... with a few added comments at the end of some.
Anyway, my friend, here you go:
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TagMan
Brightness, check this out. http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/12424/first-drive-2008-volkswagen-jetta-tdi.html
I will give you that it is not in a luxury car and so doesn't truly belong in this thread but given the verbal jousting we went through, this looks suspiciously like a 50-state legal, non-Urea added diesel engine.
Just ask a MB or VW dealer in Canada and you will find out what big fans Canadians are for diesels.
Recently the majority or VW sales in Canada were diesels. This changed when VW discontinued offering their diesel Passats and Golfs.
As far as I know there is no news about Jaguar diesels in North America
"For the most part, this next generation of educated American consumers either have no clue where the brands they use come from or simply assume everything comes from the United States, Japan or Germany," said Tom H. C. Anderson, Managing Partner, Anderson Analytics.
According to Anderson, while students’ ignorance for brand origin may a bliss in some cases –eg. most believe that Motorola is Japanese ( ), country of origin plays an important part in making luxury goods and automobiles more exclusive and exotic. And vice-versa, may we add as Hyundai proves. From the 246 people who said Hyundai’s was Korean, just 42% of them thought Korea makes good products while 85% of them said Japan makes good products. From the 589 students who wrongly believed Hyundai’s Japanese, 83% of them believe that Japan makes great products while only 38% think Korean products are good. Go figure Via:
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CEO Norbert Reithofer revealed to Germany’s Manager Magazin that BMW is looking at other sources of revenues for its long-term strategy, and selling engines was just one possibility.
But don’t hold your breath waiting for the latest M division V8 to be sold as a crate engine to anyone willing to scoff up the cash. BMW would most likely sell its less premium engines, such as the four-cylinder units it already shares with Peugeot, and the markets with the greatest potential are more likely to be India and China’s rapidly growing auto sectors.
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Do you mind if I post these links on the RX400H forum?
Hey cyclone4, you are very welcome. Do what you want with the info I provided, but again I caution you that the RX400h forum isn't a true "hybrid" forum, and general battery discussions can end up a dead end in the long run, especially when you start arguing in circles with some of those posters. I've been through it before with "hybrid" minded posters that have very polarized perspectives... for reasons I can not fathom.
Good luck, but no sense in frustrating yourself.
Let me know how it goes.
TagMan
TagMan
Good point. What CAN it really do is the yet unanswered question about HSD.
TagMan