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Well, uhmmm... according to Motor Trend there will be... I guess you had better take your argument up with them.
Here's the link:
2009 Audi A2
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Realty2 is correct.
Tagman is correct.
Motortrend is incorrect.
MT showed a picture of a dated A2 with a caption about a future car. That is the source of the confusion here.
So I guess Motor Trend reminds you of your friend.
My BMW335i with a sport package is not at all soft and compliant relative to the competition. In fact it's the opposite. A Lotus driver's soft is a Lexus driver's bone shattering ride. Soft and compliant are relative terms.
But it is inexcusable for the new M3 to be anything but hardcore. Soft and compliant terminology should not describle a V8 M3. I have high hopes for the BMW M1.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Very good, Dewey! Motor Trend should have been clearer. But Reality2 clearly stated that there is no '09 A2, which turns out not to be true. So, in the end the one who is mostly right is... houdini!
(Couldn't resist)
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I live at 96 miles from Pamplona. Just a 1.5 hours trip. But I have not been there for the San Fermín fiesta since I was young (that is, before being married
I am not very active in the Forum these days, but I have to tell that the beach it's being very appealing at this time.
:shades:
Regards,
Jose
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I meant the 335i should have a soft, compliant ride relative to the M3. As I understand it there's going to be some kind of M-sport version of the 135i, but it won't be called the M1. That would be a bit of a disservice to the original.
LOL...
Your posting has gotten better with time... like a good red wine.
TagMan
Yes, and you can take it from me... in reality, there is no "soft" in a Lotus.
TagMan
And I'll take the pictures, so every one in the Forum will see the deed :sick: :shades:
Jose
Count me out for that. My wife has to drag me out of the house just to go for runs around the neighborhood. I would like to see more of Spain though, I've only been to Barcelona and was only there two days. As with any trip to Europe, I'll have to squeeze in a few days for Italy. I'm sure there's some good Spanish wine, but nothing beats a Barbaresco or Barolo dall'Italia.
I will not discuss that :mad: but only because I carefully avoid nationalistic controversies :P .
Regards,
Jose
We may be seeing a new definition of "luxury" emerging. (See Prius). I, for one, think that MB better hurry with their S Class diseals and SUVs and Lexus should expand their hybrid range. Since "luxury" is a statement, people will want to make the "correct"one.
It's already happening. Many of the Hollywood well-knowns have been on the "green" push for some time now... as they do indeed drive a Prius and show themselves to be environmentally aware.
The Hummer has already become the hated icon for the gas-guzzling SUV.
Several recessions ago, if you remember, it was not hip or cool to indulge in luxury, and then the economy heated up and suddenly it was OK again.
I doubt that luxury will be frowned upon as much as behaviors that are seen to be blatantly environmentally harmful or energy wasteful.
One of the next "big things", may very well be water conservation, as our country quite possibly enters into a widespread water shortage in many regions. Wasting water will be frowned upon, and the celebrities will then, of course, re-landscape their properties to use much less water.
Gosh, I wonder how many of them will be putting electricity-producing solar panels on their homes in the near future... which actually isn't a bad idea out here in sunny California. If they weren't so ugly, I'd put a bunch of them on my roof! I never look forward to my monthly gas & electric bill, and that would surely make a difference.
Personally, I think it is all part of a necessary shift in thinking... away from that older wasteful, disposable, and polluting mentality to an environmentally-aware mentality.
And finally the realization that being environmentally aware isn't bad for the economy, but actually good for the economy.
And yes... you know my position on diesels... bring 'em on!
TagMan
I am looking forward to the head-on comparo between these 2 cars.
PS. Before I get jumped, let me say that I know the C63 has auto tranny and M3 has a stick.
It shouldn't be too much longer before the IS500 is available to compete as well. The new CTS-V also has a much better chance of challenging the Germans than the last one. I'm not sure when the RS5 is supposed to show, but it seems like Audi is speeding up the development of RS cars.
This is very disappointing. I try not to think about it.
Except when I wake up screaming....
DrFill
PS. I think Lexus has officially announced the M3/C63 fighter as the IS-F.
IMO, Audi has a LOT going on lately!! So, I can see the possibility for some misinformation... even by MT.
TagMan
At Lexus showrooms, sales consultants lean five to 10 degrees forward and assume a warrior's "waiting position" when a customer is looking at a car. When serving customers coffee or tea, employees must kneel on the floor with both feet together and both knees on the ground. The coffee cup must never make a noise when it is placed on the table.
Hiroshi Mase, 58, says he was initially impressed by the service he received during a recent visit to a dealership in Yokohama. The technology-company executive loved being served tea and cake as if he were a celebrity.
But he says it became overbearing when he went to pick up his new Lexus GS hybrid, and a sales associate gave him a bouquet and held a formal ceremony to hand over the key. A photo of Mr. Mase with his new car and the showroom's staff was framed and presented to him.
"It was just too much," says Mr. Mase.
If I ever walked into a Lexus dealership in Japan and was confronted with such subservience I would run like hell out of there and go to my nearest BMW dealership where at least the sales reps dont behave like cheerleading phonies.
In fact Lexus Japan's approach will work wonders in other countries that are traditionally very hierarchial.
Wall Street Journal
It is interesting to see the other side of Chevy's "this is our country" marketing. The way for them to counter the allure of imported luxury cars in a very materialistic society is by playing the "support Japan" card. Perhaps they should hire live musicians to play kotos and shakuhachis in showrooms.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Such solicitations would cost far more than an upgraded ML stereo system.
Well you saw the sales results. Better than Lexus sales in Europe, but not by a huge amount. Fortunately for them Toyota has boatloads of cash, so there's plenty of room for trial and error.
Is that for real? Lexus Europe had 60+% sales growth last year! At this rate, Lexus is going to take over the world in, hmm, half a decade :-) Just kidding.
Toyota Crown and Century (the latter more of a Rolls-Royce competitor in Japan) have been very successful at marketting themselves as "domestic luxury" in their home markets. I wonder if Lexus' domesticness is stepping on Toyota toes; then again, perhaps the company is thinking of moving all luxury marques to the Lexus division.
The problem is that the "new" Lexus models in Japan used to be called the Toyota Altezza, Aristo, Celsior, and Soarer. Trying to create a new luxury brand using cars that had Toyota badges on them a few years ago is a very awkward situation.
It's like if BMW decided to expand the Rolls-Royce brand by renaming the 5-series the RR Silver Ghost and the 7-series the RR Silver Seraph, but without actually changing the cars at all, just replacing the BMW logo with the Spirit of Ecstasy and selling them at RR dealerships.
If Lexus can have a rebadged Camry as their top sedan seller then they can probably get away with anything...
Sad, I know.
Also, any word on when their diesels will become 50 state legal?
Thanks
Nope. In fact the very opposite is true. In Japan Toyota has been very unsuccessful in terms of marketing themselves as domestic luxury.
SOURCE: WALL STREET JOURNAL
Lexus sales in Japan have gotten off to a slow start. Last year, Toyota sold about 31,000 Lexus vehicles -- just half of what analysts had projected. Toyota says it takes a long time to establish a new luxury brand and that it is gradually laying the foundation for long-term growth. Part of the problem is that Toyota has never been associated with luxury in Japan.
It's different from the Camry\ES thing. The Camry and ES share about 1\3 of their parts, but they are different cars. The ES has its own interior, and its own body work. They launched Lexus in Japan with the launch of the new IS, GS, and LS. Simply slapping an "L" badge on the old GS\Aristo or LS\Celsior mid-cycle and moving it to a different part of town would be pretty noticeable, even by the average person.
The really awkward problem is the Soarer, where they did essentially just that, because it isn't due for replacement until the end of the decade. They crossed out Toyota and wrote in Lexus, and moved it from the Toyota dealership to the Lexus dealership. This is the car as it started out in 2001.
It would be interesting to know what the Japanese price premiums are between Lexus and Toyota versions of a LS, GS, IS and SC. If the price premiums are hefty between two identical rebadged models then what you are saying above definitely makes sense.
The upcoming International Auto Shows will be a good signal, and there is already strong rumor of a diesel S-Class... but not necessarily the one that most would expect, which is the V6 BlueTec. There is also the strong possibility of a turbocharged 4-cylinder, which might sound crazy, but has been reported already. It should be interesting, but IMO, I wouldn't expect to see either one until '09 or '10 model year... and if I were to bet on this, I'd lean on the side of betting you will see a diesel (or even a hybrid) S-Class within three years.
TagMan
That was not my point.
My question was how Toyota LS, GS and IS prices of the past (before the Lexus debut) compares to current Lexus prices .
You say scarcity of resources and as a Canadian I say abundance of resources.
Oil-- Abundance of Canadian Oil Tar Sands
Water-- Canada is number one in terms of fresh water supplies
Natural Resources--An overwhelming abundance of many precious and non-precious resources
Human Resources--Some of the best Hollywood comedians are Canadian.
In terms of global warming Canada is ideally located (especially in the Arctic areas).
Not bad, eh
I liked your post.
But... I don't want to be misunderstood, as I did not say there is a scarcity. If we were to truly discuss this, I would always end up suggesting that there is a management problem... fresh water management is horrible, particularly in California, energy management is insane... and on and on.
So... we agree about abundance... to a point. The scarcity is in the proper (or rather improper) use of what we do have available, IMHO.
TagMan
Three years? You may be right but I find that far too long. By that time the S Class will be far beyond the second half of its product cycle.
The sooner the better.
The upcoming Porsche Panamera is essentially going to be a stretched out Carerra or Cayman coupe... likely with Cayenne headlights and front end treatment.
Is that a good combination? Well, the Cayenne does NOTHING for me, and never has. I suspect this new Panamera will quicken my pulse a little, but not like it should if I were to ever plunk down the actual green for it. To be honest, I'm already bored with the pics of the Panamera... not a good sign from a Porsche fan.
TagMan
Yes... I should have been clearer and said WITHIN three MODEL years, as I did suggest the '09 and '10 models years, and we are already approaching the '08 model year... which all translates closer to 2 calendar years.
The sooner the better.
Amen.
TagMan
German customers like their Honda.
link title
TagMan
So my brother calls and says- "Dude, I was having the Z8 serviced and to my surprise, sat a Magestic Blue 2008 M3." And of course my immediate response was- "No freggin way!"
Well thankfully the dealership isn't far and off I went to meet him there. And sure enough, there it sat.
My initial response was that BMW did an extremely tasteful job on the styling of this car, and the race-like carbon fibre roof is definitely the icing on the cake. The bodywork flows great with the car, without the nasty tacked-on look. The pictures and videos don't do it justice.
On with the story, thankfully my brother is super-cool with the BMW dealership management and he talked to the head guy and asked if he was letting the M3 be driven. His reply was- "just for you". Just like a kid locked in a room with a PS3 or XBOX 360, we were grins from ear to ear.
He handed over the keys and let us spin around the block a couple of times.
Fellas, all I can say is this V8, while not as snorty or punchy as the RS4, is all about business. It sounds as if the Germans took a soundbite from Cadillac and the previous gen CTS-v's smallblock V8. The throttle response is nothing short of amazing. The steering, while not as sharp as the BMW norm, is very fluid, linear, and direct.
And while it looks like this car will beat you up as a daily driver, shockingly, it's better than the previous M3 in this regard. But it still reminds you that this one is the hot one.
But as I remember mentioning a while back, with all of this fun will come along a price increase, and it has. $66.4k for our super-loaded example, or about 13k over an previous M3.
But tons of fun, nevertheless.
Curious... what did you mean that the steering is "not as sharp as the BMW norm"?
TagMan