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I'm aware of the survey results. What I'm saying is that the people who aren't buying the new S don't yet realize that quality has improved. There are plenty of folk not buying if I'm right in the presumption that sales in year 2 aren't much higher than sales in year 2 of the previous-generation S.
My recollection is that it went on sale in the Spring of 2006. Maybe merc1 will come back and enlighten us with the exact date.
By the way, has the M been outselling the 5 since both re-designs? Nobody was talking about Jags and SLs. We were comparing the M to the 5 Series. If I cared exclusively about prestige, I would have told the guy forget the Audi and BMW and wait for the Porsche Panamera.
The only way the M beats the 5 Series is in the braking department. Not in steering. Not in cornering. Not in weight balance. I know. I drove and compared both vehicles. You can't drive "electronics."
Now that I have deftly parried LG's deadly thrusts, I will turn on my fabulous Sony LCD HD TV to watch the Macy's fireworks show.....oh no! I missed it! :mad:
Amen to that!
Does it make sense to screw the tourists? Orlando wouldn't even be on the map without the tourists' millions. A bunch of real dopes, those speed trap cops in Orange County Florida.
I agree, except for the braking. The BMW is almost "perfect" except I can't modulate the brakes to a smooth stop. i drove the M35 and M45 Sport. The M's felt heavy, the steering, a bit too electronically artificial. And was the M's engine noisy!! Like a hot rod! I would get tired of that quite easily!
The only way the M beats the 5 is in braking and overall price.
But you are correct. The choice is obvious. The 5 Series is a superior vehicle to the Infiniti M and comes with class-leading mpg.
I'm quite happy with the 545i. The brakes have wonderful stopping power with no fade, but...I can't stop without a pinch of jerk at the end. The M's stopped smoothly.
Only in their dreams can MB quadruple sales volume and increase per-unit profit at the same time despite giving buyers more optional equipment for the same price like Toyota has done with Prius since its introduction. That's the sort of virtuous cycle that every carmakers strives: good solid product attracting more and more buyers, increased production volume reduce per unit production cost, so that you can sell the same product for less and still make more money per unit while attracting more and more buyers. Car making is fundamentally an economy of scales business.
Same here, except in unfortunate cases where the only available options are bad ones, and I have to begrudgingly "deal with the devil". Comcast, I'm looking at you.
We've been down this road before. The 5 series has been around for a very long time. The '03 M45 was a joke, barely managing to outsell the Q45. The M has only been a relevant player since '06, and despite that and the relatively small dealer network, the fact that it often manages 3rd place in the segment, beating the GS, A6, STS, and humiliating the RL, even though all of those models go back a decade or more, is VERY impressive.
You can't drive "electronics."
No, but you have to drive with the electronics, and BMW pretty much comes in last in that department.
I like the M's "rude and crude" persona, it's the muscle car of the mid-lux segment. It desperately needs a 6th gear, and it could stand to lose a few pounds, but it's a thoroughly enjoyable car to drive. Fortunately I don't have to make a compromise there. The XK is much more enjoyable to drive, and the LS is much more comfortable. As with my Nikon DSLR, I can choose the best tool for the occasion.
I'm not planning on getting too bogged down w/bargain hunting anyway. I'm guessing around 50K for the 335i optioned how my wife would like, around 60K for 535i & around 55K for the A6. I'll look closer at the numbers when purchase time gets closer.
I'll peruse the lease thread to try & make some sense of it, but we both drive 15K+ a year & am under the impression that jacks up cost quite a bit.
The only thing I was wondering re deals were, for example, we both decide on one make/diff models & are ready to take 2 off their hands same day..
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Not really meant for folks like me who don't remember to turn on the TV until after the Macy's fireworks TV show is over! :mad:
Yeah, sometimes you've gotta do what you've gotta do. About the only good news in my neck of the woods is that by going with Cox I'm able to get completely out of Quest (Mountain Bell) & AT&T, both of which have given me grief over the decades.
It was actually mid-February 2006 when the new S-Class first went on sale.
TagMan
Bastardizing a great original like Bullitt with a shlocky Ford product placement remake is proof that Hollywood is running out of new ideas.
The 1969 Italian Job movie with Michael Caine was a classic and now the name of this movie is tainted with a remake that looked more like a 2003 BMW Mini prodcuct placement movie.
Brad Bitt will star in a remake of 60s classic movie 'Bullitt'.
The 'Ocean's Thirteen' actor will take the role of Lt Frank Bullitt made famous by Hollywood legend Steve McQueen in the 1968 original film.
A source said: "Brad shares a lot of the same passions as Steve McQueen - including a love of motorbikes and fast cars - so it was a dream role for him."
The original film sees the tough detective hunting a hitman who has killed his fellow officers. The movie is renowned for featuring one of the best car chases in cinema history as McQueen's Mustang car speeds through the rollercoaster streets of San Francisco.
Brad, 43, has been linked with the role since 2003 but the project has only now been given the green light as film bosses desperately try to kick-start as many movies as possible before the Screen Actors Guild begin their anticipated strike action.
Brad can next be seen playing legendary outlaw Jesse James in the western 'The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford', due out in October.
I know over a year ago in Toronto I could have gotten a Prius with a $2K discount. I learned this when I was about to place an order for a hybrid Camry.
Despite my above observation the overall success of the Prius is undeniable.
That is one of the many reasons why MB ditched Chrysler. They want to focus less on volume and more on the luxury side of the auto business. Humungous sales growth of MBs does nothing for their exclusive luxurious image. THe very dated MB C Class has seen double digit sales growth because of lower prices. Is that good? The obvious answer is it is not good if you are in the luxury business. Tiffany's sales and profits boomed with its fashion silver jewelery. What did Tiffany's do? THey cut back on their silver business despite the fact that they earned far higher margins than their other upscale jewelery businesses. In otherwords high volumes does not work in the luxury business where exclusivity is the lifeblood of their businesses.
To be a success today in the auto industry you either have to be a brutally efficeint high volume manufacuture like Toyota or a premium niche luxury performance auto firm like BMW. Any auto firm that does not fit these two categories of businesses are being squeezed out of existence.
Settle is looking at the company's German rivals' massive volume gains in recent years - specifically BMW and Audi - and predicting a time where the Lexus could become the only premium brand.
Below is more news about a new hybrid Lexus. Also note the info below about the types who are buying a LS600h. Thirty three percent of LS600Hs will be used for chauffeuring. In this case I do feel sorry for chauffeur who has to drive in snooze mode.
Lexus lines up bespoke hybrid
5 July, 2007
Rather than a hybrid spin-off of an existing car Lexus' next step into the hybrid world will be a bespoke model to sit alongside its upper medium IS.
“There will be a D-segment hybrid [planned for 2010] in the future but it won't be the IS,” Lexus director Steve Settle told BusinessCar. “We'll add a specific hybrid model and leave the IS as a sports petrol and diesel. There will be more focus on interior space than on sports styling and it will have more boot space.”
Settle was speaking at the launch of the new luxury LS600h petrol-electric hybrid, which is on sale from October. He predicted that due to demand orders will run into next year, and also claimed that the early order book is dominated by “captains of industry”.
“A CEO could drive a Prius but in reality isn't going to do so,” said Settle. “The LS600h isn't the best eco car around at the moment but it's significantly better than what's out there in terms of its rivals.
“It's the time to be selling a hybrid, everyone is trying to find their way with CO2 and carbon footprints.”
The LS600h should also follow on from its RX400h and GS450h siblings and get the 100% congestion charge discount. “There's no reason why the car won't get a congestion charge exemption,” said Settle.
According to Lexus, more than half of the early LS600h orders are conquest sales, with 29% of orders coming from Mercedes drivers and 10% trading in a Bentley. Around a third of LS600h models will be used for chauffeuring, compared with 8% of the petrol LS460.
Lexus is settled at its current 15,000 volume per year, and isn't looking for another jump until the new hybrid arrives in 2010.
Settle is looking at the company's German rivals' massive volume gains in recent years - specifically BMW and Audi - and predicting a time where the Lexus could become the only premium brand.
“With hybrid we think we could become the true premium brand in the UK,” he said. “Ten years ago there were clear premium manufacturers, but they're premium volume once you get above 100,000 units, especially if there's pressure to maintain volume.”
link title
This year is BMW's 90th birthday. The Benz half of Mercedes-Benz is 136 years old, and they invented the car. These companies are not going to be beaten Lexus, and certainly not because of a temporary band-aid solution like hybird-gas engines.
.... and the winner is...
my beloved Porsche 911 Carrera S. (sorry blkhemi
... as if there was any doubt. :shades:
TagMan
Jaguar XF: 500 hp and diesel in the works
Porsche Panamera will have some competition.
TagMan
And as with Gone In 60 Seconds and The Italian Job, I'm sure the car chase in this remake will badly pale in comparison to the original. The only guy capable of directing car chases that can hold a candle to those classics was John Frankenheimer. Everybody else is a hack.
How much longer before there's a crappy remake of The French Connection starring Tom Cruise?
.... and the winner is...
my beloved Porsche 911 Carrera S.
They are all very different cars. The 911 is a great sports car, while the XKR is a fantastic GT car. Neither is a bad choice. The V8 Vantage is much closer to the 911 than the Jag is. The BMW is hideous, its techno-obsessed overkill, and the transmission is crap. Not my favorite.
The XF isn't really targeted at the Panamera. That's where the Rapide and BMW CS come in. The XF should finally be the 5 and E fighter that the S-type aspired to be, but failed.
Maybe not, but I do believe that many of the same buyers will consider both vehicles.
TagMan
And who the heck was that guy? :surprise:
Was he some kind of automotive authority-figure living within the vicinity of Toronto (I thought that guy was me..ok, ok I am just kidding)
Comparing a Camry and a MB C Class is like comparing a VW Jetta with a Infiniti G35. There is no comparablility whatsoever. Regarding MB status the same thing can be said about buying a Lexus versus a Toyota. An Infiniti versus a Nissan. An Audi versus a VW. A Acura verus.................In all honesty why buy any luxury car?
link title
And who the heck was that guy?
Well he claimed to have MBs and a Porsche. We were both admiring an S63 on the show room floor.
NOPE!
Based on a survery Prius owners are more conscious about their appearances and making a statement than about such mundane tree-hugging matters as saving our planet earth or fuel efficiency.
More than half of the Prius buyers surveyed this spring by CNW Marketing Research of Bandon, Ore., said the main reason they purchased their car was that "it makes a statement about me."
The Prius has become, in a sense, the four-wheel equivalent of those popular rubber "issue bracelets" in yellow and other colors -- it shows the world that its owner cares.
"I really want people to know that I care about the environment," said Joy Feasley of Philadelphia, owner of a green 2006 Prius. Mary Gatch of Charleston, S.C., chose the car over a hybrid version of the Toyota Camry after trading in a Lexus sedan. "I felt like the Camry Hybrid was too subtle for the message I wanted to put out there,"
link title
Let me confirm to you that fellow was not me. I hate agressive lane changers and yearn for the more disciplined driving of Europeans who strongly believe that the left lane is for fast cars and the right lane is for slow cars.
At least one forum member Jbil is confronted with such orderly traffic flows.
Even a re-make of his non-auto chase movies are pathetic. For instance The Manchurian Candidate.
IMHO the very best Frankenheimer movie ever made was "Seconds". "Seconds" is not as popular as his other movies because it is most disturbing in a Twilight Zone way.
God-forbid if there is a re-make of "Seconds" with Leonardo di Caprio and Cameron Diaz. :sick:
Yeah, you are right. Let me tell that I become really angry when I catch slow traffic sleeping siestas on the middle lane when no car is on the right one. But my angriness is nothing compared to that of German and in particular Dutch drivers under a similar circumstance. They can organize the best honk & light concerts in the world. It is not true that northern people are more cool blooded than southern, at least in Europe
Jose
That sounds more like you... a disciplined financial professional... who believes in disciplined driving... but PLEASE tell me you let that 335i dance at least once in a while!
TagMan
TagMan
Not nowadays
While the diesel’s efficiency peaked in 1989
Strange news to me.
I am open to any new development, but this article looks strongly like a lobbyist counter-attack.
Jose
If you read all the comments, you further realize that the article is biased. The article should not be called the "truth" about diesels... it should be called an "opinion" about diesels, as it is nothing more than that.
TagMan
DrFill
Demand for Bluetec diesels in the United States has been running ahead of Mercedes-Benz’ expectations. According to a DaimlerChrysler spokesman, Bluetec diesels have been accounting for about 11 percent of monthly sales of the E class, about 15 percent of for the R class and GL class and between 17 and 19 percent for the M class.
Mercedes-Benz plans to offer an advanced version of the Bluetec diesels in the United States in 2008, which will meet the stringent emissions limits of California and five other states that follow its regulations.
If you compare Bluetec diesel models that are offered in the US to those that will be offered in Europe, European Bluetec diesels have slightly less horsepower than the US models for better CO2 emissions.
Mercedes-Benz will be launching clean-burning Bluetec diesel engines six months earlier than it had originally planned in Europe. The first car available will be the V6 diesel E-class sedan early this December, said Thomas Weber, head of research and development for DaimlerChrysler.
The earlier launch for the Bluetec diesel in Europe is made possible by the increase of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and the Netherlands, said a DaimlerChrysler spokesman.
Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)
TagMan
The A2 has never been attractive, and neither has the A-class. Those are two cars that the Europeans can keep to themselves.
It drives me nuts when I am behind indisciplined drivers who travel on the left lane within legal speed limits (I've notice quite a few of them are hybrids). Those types of drivers prevent the rest of mankind from breaking the law :mad:
I'd be willing to look past the risk of M-B service issues if the car was good enough (GLK, for example), but not for a last gen C280. Lot of money for a car that isn't particularly amazing.
Is that all?
In Canada almost every new MB E Class seems to be a diesel. A few years ago diesels accounted for over half of VW sold in Canada when there were TDI versions of Passats, Jettas and Golfs.
Anything with the word "truth" in it that comes from autospies should be taken with about a gallon of salt.
Car Magazine's V8 BMW M3 review is not so impressive. This same magazine raved about the BMW 335i. BMW M3 not hardcore enough? We will have to wait for the CSL to improve things? That's not a good review when you consider that every M series should be hardcore with or without CSL.
A simple and less refined BMW M1 that handles like a E30 but also accelerates far faster than one would cater to many hardcore tastes. Even for the same money I'd pick a M1 over a more refined and luxurious V8 M3 anyday.
CAR MAGAZINE
Edmunds' first drive of the M3 seems to indicate the same thing, that they decided to tone it down a bit this time. Why? Despite 4.0L, 8-cylinders and 420hp, the car is exactly zero tenths quicker to 60 than the 335i. If it's not any faster it should at least be a lot more aggressive. If you want a soft, compliant ride, buy the 335i. Otherwise what's the point?