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Comments
manual tranny turbodiesel BMW 535d... Ohhhhhh yeah.
TagMan
I suspect that when the diesel and hybrid are side-by-side with enough models to select from, you will get your chance to drive a performance diesel with a manual tranny and then you will be posting to me that you "get it", and that you understand what I've been posting for so long.
Yes, Doc... you are actually going to like the feeling of driving some of these new diesels.
TagMan
The Highlander is a disaster! What's with that horrible grinding noise at every stop at every red light or stop sign? How much of THAT can anyone stand! It's nasty.
The vehicle is ugly, too. And the new one even uglier.
TagMan
Neither does CR. Or the 30k customers a year. :confuse:
Regarding the New Diesels, bring 'em on! I am a fringe buyer, so I may end up with one.
When it comes to diesels, show me the money (I save).
DrFill
Now that IS vaporware. GM has even said they currently have no way to actually produce a VOLT. We won't see anything resembling a production car for at least 10 years. I wouldn't count on GM, currently the automaker with the worst, least efficient hybrids, to rocket to the head of the EV class.
Toyota has hit a new low with the new Highlander design.
A while back, I've looked up a study by the health dep of the city of Toronto on diesel exhaust in trying to decide whether they should buy diesel or hybrid (made by GM I believe) transit buses. To make the story short, they went with the fleet of hybrids, because of the carcinogen nature of diesel exhaust.
I don't know how different the clean diesel is, but one thing I've noticed is that these hybrid bus drivers can gun the buses trying to merge with traffic from stops without spilling the dark fume from the exhausts.
Toyota has hit a new low with the new Highlander design.
I can probably count the number of "attractive" Toyota designs on one hand. Based on their sales, most people don't seem to care that most Toyotas look like rolling lumps of oatmeal.
Yes GM is in the dumps in terms of producing fuel efficient cars. There is not a single GM i4 engine that is worthy of mention. Despite this there is such a thing as turnaround stories. A big part of GM's turnaround will be based on their ability to produce fuel efficient cars and they know it. Wagoner is focusing GM to produce a VOLT by 2010 and he himself feels the pressures in terms of making the VOLT a success. It is not an exageration to say that the fortunes of GM is dependent on the VOLT especially if it wants to continue manufacturing smaller vehicles.
1) Bob Lutz used the Geneva Motor Show as the backdrop for announcing that General Motors wants an all-electric vehicle in production by 2010. Presumably that vehicle would be a production version of the Chevy Volt concept that was very well received at the 2007 Detroit Auto Show in January.
2) WILMINGTON, Del. – General Motors has awarded two contracts for advanced development of lithium-ion batteries for its electric drive "E-Flex System," it was announced today at GM's annual shareholder meeting.
Different as night and day.
Remember how gassers used to blow oily smelly exhaust? And now they don't.
Same difference.
TagMan
You got it.
If it weren't for CR's reliability data, sales would be in the dumpster. That's why Toyota should be VERY careful about losing its top reliability ratings... and not be all too arrogant, and not deny that Hyundai is now lurking in some of those top spots.
TagMan
link title
Clean, modern diesel engines will be one of the best things to happen to cars sold in North America in a long time!
TagMan
Looking forward to seeing the new Accord sedan, although from spy photos of the tail lights, I probably won't like it.
A diesel Accord will be a huge improvement over the hybrid mistake.
A hpowders prayer: May an MDX Sport with those fabulous adjustable shocks and superb crash-test ratings arrive here by August, 2008 in diesel form and may the number of hybrid models continue to shrink. :shades:
Diesel hybrids well be even better.
And diesel hybrids with plugin capability better still.
Have you seen the diesel offerings?
There is a far wider selection of hybrid cars than diesel cars. Which brings me to my next question:
How many people here have bought hybrids :confuse:
Diesel hybrids well be even better.
And much more expensive.
And diesel hybrids with plugin capability better still.
And even more expensive than diesel hybrids.
Environmentally friendly behavior is one of the cheapest endeavors a human being can do. Planting trees, walking or taking a bike instead of a car, turning down the air conditioning or heater, eating local produce , buying a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla instead of a luxury performance car .....
I dont know why so many people are so eager to show their green credentials by flaunting their wallets :surprise:
How long has the LS600hL been discussed? Does anyone actually own one?
Don't put the cart before the horse.
In my particular situation, I live in California, and the ULSD fuel is now plentiful and easily obtained, but the vehicles are not compliant until next year sometime.
The word is that VW will offer its new 2.0L 50-state compliant engine in the Spring of '08. Later in the year, we expect and are hopeful that Mercedes will offer all of its SUVs with the 50-state diesel BlueTec engine.
Just so you know, and to answer your question... I will, in fact, purchase a clean modern diesel-powered SUV (or possibly even two) shortly after they are available... and that's the key... availability.
And, believe me, once they are readily available, they will sell better than hybrids ever hoped to sell. Refer to the AutoWeek article I linked in a previous post.
BTW, I've recently planted some more trees on my property. I sure hope palm trees help the environment!
TagMan
Good thing we don't have to buy that LS600hL to be environmentally aware! Yikes!
TagMan
Howard who knows maybe you will be driving a diesel MDX instead of a diesel BMW.
Tagman if you are happy with your current MDX I am sure you will be happier with a new MDX diesel.
During next year's Academy Awards Night there is going to be quite a few of those cars.
Nothing like driving a fine-handling SUV that managed to pass the crash test! I don't want ol' smokey getting hurt in case I decide to stop short! :shades:
To be honest, I think the '06 MDX is better-looking than the new '07. I do realize that the '07 has terrific handling (the '06 is pretty darned good, too), but the '07 styling doesn't work for me.
The luxury level isn't up to what my wife wants in the next SUV, and I can understand it, so that's why I'm just waiting for the Mercedes GL with the diesel BlueTec. It's a terrific SUV, and it's more like what she'll be happy with.
The new MDX is a GREAT choice if someone is willing to overlook some of the styling quirks (both interior and exterior.) I think if Howard gets one, he would not regret it, but he will know that he compromised on some style and plastic wood... which sometimes is a necessary trade-off.
No doubt, the diesel would improve an already well-respected vehicle!
For me, though, I'm most likely going to get either the GLK diesel (hopefully), or the VW Tiguan diesel, or the BMW X3 diesel.
TagMan
Yeah... quite a replacement for the Prius.
TagMan
Hyundai can lurk from whatever crypt they want.
Now Toyota is dependant on CR? Get real, Tag! I thought Toyota owners report the quality of their cars to CR?
What about Toyota making 4 of the Top 10 vehicles for value? CR recognizes a good thing when they see it. Maybe they don't have an agenda? :surprise:
Toyota needs customers. They don't need CR. They don't need Hyundai.
Hyundai needs Toyota to show them the way. Don't get your tea leaves mixed up.
Hyundai has a ways to go before they can start worrying about Toyota. A ways to go.
DrFill
Toyota thrives on those ratings... and don't ever think that they don't.
TagMan
And much more expensive.
And diesel hybrids with plugin capability better still.
And even more expensive than diesel hybrids.
You guys are making a big mistake if you think that hybrid technology costs aren't going to continue coming down dramatically.
I'll go so far as to predict that 10 years from now, the majority of the people presently posting on this board...Germancarfans and Lexicans alike...will own diesel hybrids.
Diesel hybrid is a great marriage of the two technologies, and is a logical conclusion. Like you, I also expect to see diesel hybrids... but I doubt that the majority of posters here will be driving one in ten years... but it is conceivable.
How about diesel hybrids running on bio-diesel? Hmmm.
For me... looking way ahead... I still see hydrogen down the longer road.
TagMan
...a 50-year long road, imho. Imho, diesel hybrid is going to be mainstream during most of the driving lives of my kids, now 7 and 10.
Yes, a long road, but not nearly THAT long.
TagMan
link title
Point made very well... IMHO.
TagMan
Yes that long...article
TagMan
I thought you and Brightness had agreed that there will be a LONG wait for powerful clean diesel vehicle for NA? Has there been any recent changes that I am not aware of?
4-cylinders diesel engines maybe good for small cars, but you are talking about regular SUV here right?
-FJ Cruiser
-4runner
-Corolla
-Camry
-Sienna
-IS
-LS
-RX
-GS (from a certain angle)
4-cylinders diesel engines maybe good for small cars, but you are talking about regular SUV here right?
There is NOTHING that brightness and I agree on regarding clean modern diesels that I am aware of.
Already, RIGHT NOW, in 45 states, the pre-BlueTec V6 diesel Mercedes is being offered in the SUVs. They represent a terrific opportunity to get a fabulous full-sized diesel SUV.
The 50-state compliant version, called the BlueTec, will add a urea injection at the exhaust to do the final emmissions clean-up, but the smaller diesels don't need that final exhaust step. That BlueTec engine should arrive later in '08.
VW will introduce its new 50-state compliant 4-cylinder 2.0L clean diesel engine most likely in the Spring of '08. Mercedes will follow with the BlueTec I mentioned, and most others will follow later in '08 and in '09 and going forward.
Eventually, within only two to three years, most manufacturers (except possibly Ford) will offer diesels in a number of passsenger cars and SUVs. Many of these vehicles have already been announced.
Another anticipated clean diesel from Mercedes may be a turbocharged 4-cylinder... I think we will see it at car shows next year! There is a possibility that it may actually end up in the S-Class, believe it or not!
TagMan
Here in the States, we have a saying: You can take the horse to the water, but you can't make'em drink it. Got it, eh?
link title
I was a little surprised to see that they were even ahead in dollar sales also. I appreciate that info. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Conversely, if MB moves 1 well optioned S-Class($105k) for every 1.5 Lexus LS, for the same money, give or take a hair, isn't the gross dollar the same? I wasn't the best in math, economics and marketing skills unapproachable.
The one blaring problem that I have with everything is that I can't believe that there are some posters here that all for hybrid, but attached only to a gas engine. Isn't the whole concept behind hybrid technology is to get better economy? And maybe add power to while you're at it?
Then what better way to do so than diesel? The latest in diesel technology, from a 2.0L VW to the awesome new pick-up truck diesels, have opened new doors on diesel engines that have been locked up for quite some time in the US.
A gas engine can't even scratch what a diesel offers in economy on it's own. But even with the best hybrids coupled to gas engines, there are still car and truck diesel getting better mileage, without hybrid. So it can only be all for the better when couple to a hybrid system, preferrably a plug-in type.
Let's face it. For the people that buy their vehicles, a diesel engine has roughly 2-3 times the life of it's gas counterpart. The latest diesels have relatively longish service intervals(altho gas engines now can go as long as 20k miles without an oil change- gee whiz), are a more simpler design(less moving parts), and with BMW's diesels, lighter than gas engines.
Are diesels the savior to put an end to all of our crisis? No, but to those of us who are "crusading against the diesel soot, noise, smell", newflash: The new ones are almost twice as clean as some supposed LEV gas engines.
It adds more HP to a car that is plenty fast, and doesn't need more HP.
The price goes up what? $50-60K? That makes more sense? :confuse:
What kind of economy/emissons does the S600 get vs the S550? Better?
It's about a second faster 0-60. $60k? Doesn't even add AWD! That's one expensive turbocharger! :surprise:
Is that "comprehensible"?
At least the LS600 starts where a loaded LS460 ends. You get everything standard, exclusive options, upgraded materials, AWD, more power, the same or better economy and emissions. Even get "Green" image points!
Many people would rather have the S63! More power. Why do I have to lose 2 gears going to the 600? The S600 may not even be the best S-Class! :surprise:
AND it still has "Saddlebags", which you can't delete for any price.
Give me an idea when the S600 is some great purchase.
DrFill
I think they have learned their lesson and will stay on their side of the pond and lick their wounds for a few years. Lowly Chrysler took them to the wood shed! Gotta love it!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Doc, this is even hilarious for you. You ran out of cars to pick on, so, oh lets badger the superior S600.
First off, you say the LS600 starts where a loaded LS460 ends. Has pricing been finalized as of yet? So for sure, it'll duck under $95k when it's available?
Secondly, you say it gets everything standard? At last check, the S600 does also. Check the exclusive options list too why don't ya.
Upgraded materials. The S600's got cha covered.
AWD. No it doesn't, but it leaves that to it's lesser brother, something that Lexus asks you pay $100k for.
More power? You really don't want to go there do ya?
The same or better economy or emissions? This is the breaking point. How does 16/24 sound better than 20/22. Ok, 4 miles better in the city, if you're feathering it. Whoopty freaggin do!! Maybe there some hidden agenda in their, but I don't see it. The car actually gets worse mileage and is , I don't know, 1000 POUNDS HEAVIER. So much for green points as they don't come to the HUMMER of automobiles. Oh, and your LS that's gets oh so much better fuel econ than the S550, is now rated the exact same(16/24 is a fall from 19/27). Darn those EPA bureacrats and 8 speed-tranny's.
Just face it Doc, there is not one single car in this class(upper sedan class) that offers what the MB does for the money. Heck, Lexus can't even produce a V12, at any price. It takes a hybrid to get "some" performance, where a base S550 AWD will make cake of it.
BTW, I'll take the "saddlebags" over looking like a bloated Camry any day.
Note to Mullally: GET ALL THE DOUGH YOU CAN GET!!!!!
TM
It's not too far different than a fuel-converted Hummer... perceived as a contradiction of terms.
TagMan