I am looking for a 4wd truck with an extra cab and a v-8 engine. I like the looks of all the big trucks, but will suffice to get something dependable and comfortable. My concern is not to buy something I will have regretted purchasing. This is why I am here at Edmunds (and elsewhere) doing research and trying to make a sound decision. Thanks for your help.
Well the toyota people here will tell you you will regret buying a gm dodge or ford. Those people will tell you that you will regret buying a toyota. i think you will like whatever you buy.
Sugguestion: Listen in these topics go to all of em and ignore all the bad stuff like in earlier posts. Remember most people are vocal about the bad stuff and there are plenty of people out there that are very satisfied with all the brands. The bad outweigh the good in these posts mostly.
Second: Go test drive all of the trucks
Also what kinda options are you looking for in particular???
Well, I've test driven them all (twice) (once with the wifey). As far as options, I am looking for the standard power stuff, cloth seat, stereo/CD, towing hitch/wiring. I do not need aa lot of fancy stuff. I'm not a BIG into trucks, but I feel a truck would do better towing a trailer I recently bought (2,500lbs). What I am after is a truck that will pull the weight (all of the big 3 plus Toyota w/V-8s will do that) and something that will not start falling apart or break down when I'm 1,000 miles from home. I see all sorts of people on the side of the road fixing broken engines and I've avoided that thus far. The best info I can get is to find out: 1. what the available "flaws" are 2. what published reliability is 3. what resale is (even though I will keep until it dies) - measure of vehicle integrity and customer demand
Then merit a purchase based on these items (maybe others if you can offer them).
Do you need an extended cab??? Room in the back could be important, Kidds?
1. Flaws i can answer this from the chevy point of view because i own a silverado. 1500 4x4 ext cab Z71. Right now the biggest thing is vibrations on the 2wd trucks but this really doesnt apply to you since you want a 4wd so you should be in the clear there. Rear sliding window scratch that they quit putting them in for now due to cracking. people have been complaining about the ABS but all i know is mine saved me and my truck 2 wks ago when a guy pulled out in front of me and i had to slam on the brakes and swirve. The DNP (dynamic rear proportioning) really helped too.
My truck has nearly 4500 mls (got it last wk of april). Only complaint (flaw if you say) is a dlight dash rattle which i should take in but it only appears on bumpy roads. I have absolutly no regrets. I go everything i wanted and i am very happy with my purchase. I too plan to keep it till my next truck resale value meant nothing to me. All trucks have higher than average resale value especially ones with certain options 4X4 Z71 towing pkg yada yada yada.
Another question which one did you like out of all your test drives???
My test drives/sitting in vehicle
tundra - to small (interior wise) i was uncomfortable dodge - plain dash ford - plain dash also but this would be my second choice silverado- most room, like the interior, ext cab very roomy, styling i really liked kept it like the old c/k but with some curves powerful engine
For what it sounds like you will be expecting from the truck in way of tow capacity, etc, I think any of the trucks would be fine for you. Narrow down the one "you like" best. Drive them all, etc.
All the trucks on the market, even the Tundra are a crap shoot whether you will get one that has problems. None of them are any more reliable than the other. Tundras have plenty of reported problems to deal with too.
Now, that being said, if your likes point you to the Tundra, you need to realize that you will be paying more to get optional equipment. The Tundra has very little base equipment. By the time you add everything you want, which still is not as much available as the others, you will pay more for the truck unless you get a dealer that is really hurting on sales for the month.
Robbie, That was your best post yet! Tip my hat for style. Of course, G.M. is the reason for the news, since it was their VP (Pierce sp?) who made the headlines, complaining GM trucks model for model, get 4% better fuel mileage now, yet Ford is perceived as the greener manufacturer.
Valdez is ZEV certified. We know what a guzzler that is. ZEV means zero element value. Vortecs are more fuel efficient. That's what counts.
I would get into what I liked/disliked about all my test drives, but from what I've read above, it tends to incite a lot of criticism towards the writer - let's face it, these are subjective (as opposed to objective) decisions based on opinions (and we all know what opinions are like... . Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback I've received. I joined this topic to "expand" my viewpoint and I think those who have responded have helped me do that. Now I'm off to buy a truck!!!
I like my truck, Tundra, I like the F150 too. It was down to these 2 trucks when I was shopping.
Would be nice though if I can turn off the Daylight Running Lights when in idle. It's not an option on the Tundra. I heard in the Silverado you just engage the parking brakes and the lights shut off.
Ok. Now a ligitimate question for the Tundra owners. How many proportioning valves do the ABS brakes on a Tundra have? I am sincerely curious.
Also, I have heard many comments about the Tundra having a much more rigid frame than any of the other trucks. Can anyone give me factual information to support this, and I mean factual information that I can go to and find myself? I don't see this to be true, but would like to know where the information comes from. If I am not correct, I want to know where the facts are to see for myself.
Nothing wrong with that. I have never seen you slam the domestic trucks to justify your purchasing the Tundra. Buying the Tundra simply because you like it better than the others is very commendable (sp?) I don't have a problem with someone buying a Tundra because of preference. We all buy from preference. What I negate is this theory of higher quality just because it has a Toyota emblem on it. All I hear is Tundra owners saying the Chevy and Fords are junk, which only makes them look like they feel the need to justify their purchase on something other than preference.
In these statements of higher quality, Tundra owners have mentioned some things without facts. Not personal experiences mind you, those are always subjective. The two things I questioned about are examples. I have not been able to find any proof that the Tundra has better ABS or more rigid frames, so until I find the facts or until someone presents them to me, I see them as subjective opinions like a personal testimony. Personal testimonies are fine, and have some merit, but blanket statements about more rigid frames, etc. need to have facts to be backed up.
What type of info are you looking for? I've spent hours crawling in, under and around the f-150, silverado and my Tundra. The Tundra frame uses the same thickness of steel, traditional bracing and in addition triagulated bracing. My dad's 2500 chevy camper special (not running currently) has roughly 25% thicker steel than the standard 1500 for a comparison. I believe the Tundra frame's only design advantage is superior squaring integrity, inherent with it's triagulated braces. The rest of the frame is very standard, sans the weak/partial welds of the silverado.
In reply to post #170, my Tundra 4x4 has a dynamic proportioning valve on the rear brakes. The valve is mounted on the frame and has a lever that connects to the rear axle. It varies the braking applied to the rear wheels depending on load - more load in rear = more pressure applied to the rear brakes in a given situation.
For info on the Tundra frame, go to www.toyota.com, then click on Tundra, then Comparison, then Independent Reviews, then Frame Integrity. I'm not sure exactly how the test was performed or what to make of the comparison, it just shows that the body panels on the Tundra had much less deflection in a given situation than comparable Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.
He posted: "Actually we should be glad there are stupid people like you"
First: He is under the mistaken impression that he talks for this group. I call it delusions of grandeur.
Second: I just posted some facts about F150s and he got all angry and defensive. Is it just him or is it all F150 owners?
Can F150 just not handle the truth that Tundras have greatly outclassed the F150? That he paid way too much money for less truck?
He seems to be in his own dreamworld where he actually believes that the Ford (and Chevy!) is the same quality as a Toyota. He needs to get his head out of the sand (or elsewhere) and face facts: The Tundra is just a much better value. The fact that it is much higher quality and reliability is just icing on the cake.
My Tundra has ABS. It works great! I have tested it a couple of times going down wet hills and jamming the brakes on. When it activates, there is an almost imperceptible feel in the brake pedal. The pedal stays in the same relative position and the truck comes to an amazingly short, straight, uneventful stop.
I think that the ABS system is designed (and maybe built) by Bosch. It is a four channel system. I highly recommend it.
When I bought my truck in December, ABS was a little hard to find, but it is worth it.
It sounds like you value quality. I have had my truck 9 months and not had a single problem. It has been the most reliable vehicle I have owned. The Tundra comes with a 5 yr. , 60,000 mile drivetrain warranty - the best. Ford, GM and Dodge only have 3 yr. warranties.
The Lexus V8 is amazing. It is extremely smooth and powerful. The cab is very quiet - almost no wind or road noise. It is quieter on the highway than my Maxima sedan. It handles very nimbly for a full size pickup.
I drove a Ford F150 before I bought my Tundra and in my opinion there was no comparison. The Ford was noisier, slower, had weaker brakes, and did not handle nearly as well. Drive both and decide for yourself.
The Silverado is rated -90% in predicted reliability by Consumer Reports - off their charts. The 4WD is predicted to be even worse. If you value quality and reliability - you should stay far away.
"I'm not a BIG into trucks, but I feel a truck would do better towing a trailer I recently bought (2,500lbs). What I am after is a truck that will pull the weight (all of the big 3 plus Toyota w/V-8s will do that"
A Ford Ranger would easily pull 2500 pounds. Ditto for the S-10, Frontier, and the Tacoma. Unless you plan on buying a trailer with more weight, save your money.
I just have to comment on this; Tundras with V6's can pull twice that weight and some.
Also be sure that you can get the correct wiring harness for your trailer when you purchase the truck.
Perhaps many of the Toyota owners here call Ford, Chevy and Dodge junk because, like me, they've owned them and got sick of all the problems. Personal experience is sometimes the best teacher. By the way, why do you feel it's necessary to hang out in a topic labeled "Toyota Tundra and ABS Brakes" anyway? Why aren't you hanging out in the Ford topics?
Reliability??? How can you calculate this? The tundra has been in the "full size" game for what a little over a yr? At least chevy ford and dodge have proven themselves and have been building a full size truck for many many yrs.
Toyota was going to find cost savings somewhere. One press of the horn button and see where they found $1.75. Where else would they cut? Rear drum brakes aren't going to win any quality awards. Neither is chipping paint. Glass is expensive, and Tundra uses less than any full size truck. No locking axle. No tow haul mode. No Autotrac. Limited ABS. More quality through less? Must be!
Out brake any other 1/2 ton pickup. Sounds like quality to me.
Meanwhile the NHTSA has a recall out for defective antilock brakes on Silverados. That definitely is not quality. Case closed.
The horn is the biggest criticism you can find? Man, you are really digging.
The Tundra glass is thicker. That is one reason why the cab is so quiet.
I have a 4WD which works superbly without locking axle.
Who needs tow/haul mode or autotrac. It is more unreliable GM gimmicks.
Just keep telling yourself as your shakerado vibrates down the highway pinging away with its defective antilock brakes, defective rear windows, no sliding rear window, excessive bearing clearances on crankshaft that cause new engines to knock, that it is a "quality" vehicle. Hmm. They are selling brand new trucks with defective crankshafts requiring the replacement of the engine.
Quad - admit it - GM is trying out their new designs on unsuspecting truck buyers and they have major quality issues to work out. They got their -90% reliability prediction the easy way - they earned it.
Why do you keep referring to shakerado? My truck has shook yet. You take one thing and you dont quit on it. Another thing about the numbers it was midnight when i typed that post. I had just got home i wasnt about to go look for them. Also it is on a video i have which tests all 4 trucks.
Out breaking comment was good. Ryan fell right into that one.
Was this a test that Toyota paid for? Kind of like the tow test were they picked the smallest V8 and highest rear end gear VS Tundra V8? Were the big three braking on ice going down a 60% slope with worn out tires VS the Tundra on dry flat road and new tires?
I have seen other tests that show Tundra out braking when empty and the Silverado winning the test with a load in the bed. This test was 60 MPH-0.
You are a perfect spokesperson for the domestic diehards. You capture their point of view, perfectly and with such heart-felt eloquence. Keep on posting!!!
Bamatundra: Perfect Toyota brochure marketing responses. The Toyota salesman sure have you programmed. Do you know anything about mechanics that you can't find in a Toyota sales brochure? Oh, forget it. Nobody cares or reads what you have to say anyway.
Oh, you are a real piece of work. You are the one whom gets defensive and starts all the name calling, and other little boy tactics. I don't need all that. I know I bought way more truck than your Tundra could ever live up to on its best day of "work" and for thousands less, unless you are one of the recent buyers taking advantage of all the Tundra price slashes. Makes people wonder why they have to slash the price so much just to get 100k sales. 100k sales is about 2 months worth for Ford. Maybe all my comparisons should be the trips to the soccer fields to drop off the kids for practice. That is about the only real "work" a Tundra ever sees. Of course, don't try and put them in the back seat. Even the kids would be complaining of cramped space. Way to go Toyota. You just created a great alternative to the littler, but almost identicle brother, the Tacoma.
means "After Bashing Someone" hit the brakes even harder to get the rear drums to kick in.
F150, you're wasting your time cause these sissy's don't understand that they've been had. it's obvious that they'll buy the newest whatever without even checking into what they're getting only to find it marked down 3-6 months later cause the rest of the consumer world was smart enough to see right through a gimmick from the get go.
Hey, F150, you've igonored my posts about my towing experience with the Tundra and T100. They're bulletproof. Which is more than I can say about the Big 3 I see sitting in the middle of the desert on the shoulder. At least the Tundra will GET the kids to soccer practice without calling a tow truck.
I have a long Ford truck history. In the last 20 years, I have not had one major repair. Major repair = engine, transmission, major suspension parts, major electrical breakdown. I have had trucks that I bought used that were actually worked that went over 150k miles without major repair. None of my trucks have been in need of repair when either sold or traded in. The worst repair I ever needed was a service engine soon light that kept coming on with a truck that I bought used. At over 100k miles, I replaced the O2 sensors myself. Problem resolved. You have no advantage over my Fords based on my service records. My trucks have spent time working in the Arizona deserts as well so the heat theory doesn't work either.
I would almost lay money down that if I worked a Tundra with all it's Tacoma spare parts the way I have worked my Fords over the years, I would shell that differential and transmission in less than 3 months. Good luck with the soccer kids.
I hear ya. These guys are something else. I work my 1/2 tons like they were superduty's and they still won't break. When a Tundra works as hard as my 1/2 tons and still has as good of a maintenance record as my Fords, then lets talk.
You post no-stop about the Tundra's drumbrakes, then get defensive if someone points out one of the many silverado flaws more than once. If you still fail to understand your hypocrisy....well, "God loveth the fool".
When did i post about the drum brakes? I never said anything about toyotas drum brakes. Seriously go back and reread the posts or you better get some glasses and take remedial reading classes.
Watch what you say ("God loveth the fool". ) it probably will come back to haunt you.
The GM 3500 Sonama we use here utilizes rear drum brakes. Why would chevy use rear drum brakes on it's heaviest duty pickup if they are so inferior to rear disc? BTW, you still haven't responded to the independant AMCI testing which clearly demonstrated the tundra's superior stopping distance unloaded as well as loaded. Oh yeah, there's been no mention of your Navy service either!
now here's entertainment you just can't put a price on. i've been all wrong along here. you guys are truly the most defensive bunch i've ever seen or heard. let's hear some real facts about your ABS brakes if that's what this topic is truly about. who was in the navy is totally irrelevant here. so why not quit whinin and get on with the program.
Comments
Little advice get out while you can.
What kinda truck are you looking for? 2wd 4wd?
Ryan
Sugguestion: Listen in these topics go to all of em and ignore all the bad stuff like in earlier posts. Remember most people are vocal about the bad stuff and there are plenty of people out there that are very satisfied with all the brands. The bad outweigh the good in these posts mostly.
Second: Go test drive all of the trucks
Also what kinda options are you looking for in particular???
Ryan
1. what the available "flaws" are
2. what published reliability is
3. what resale is (even though I will keep until it dies) - measure of vehicle integrity and customer demand
Then merit a purchase based on these items (maybe others if you can offer them).
1. Flaws i can answer this from the chevy point of view because i own a silverado. 1500 4x4 ext cab Z71. Right now the biggest thing is vibrations on the 2wd trucks but this really doesnt apply to you since you want a 4wd so you should be in the clear there. Rear sliding window scratch that they quit putting them in for now due to cracking. people have been complaining about the ABS but all i know is mine saved me and my truck 2 wks ago when a guy pulled out in front of me and i had to slam on the brakes and swirve. The DNP (dynamic rear proportioning) really helped too.
My truck has nearly 4500 mls (got it last wk of april). Only complaint (flaw if you say) is a dlight dash rattle which i should take in but it only appears on bumpy roads. I have absolutly no regrets. I go everything i wanted and i am very happy with my purchase. I too plan to keep it till my next truck resale value meant nothing to me. All trucks have higher than average resale value especially ones with certain options 4X4 Z71 towing pkg yada yada yada.
Another question which one did you like out of all your test drives???
My test drives/sitting in vehicle
tundra - to small (interior wise) i was uncomfortable
dodge - plain dash
ford - plain dash also but this would be my second choice
silverado- most room, like the interior, ext cab very roomy, styling i really liked kept it like the old c/k but with some curves powerful engine
Ryan
All the trucks on the market, even the Tundra are a crap shoot whether you will get one that has problems. None of them are any more reliable than the other. Tundras have plenty of reported problems to deal with too.
Now, that being said, if your likes point you to the Tundra, you need to realize that you will be paying more to get optional equipment. The Tundra has very little base equipment. By the time you add everything you want, which still is not as much available as the others, you will pay more for the truck unless you get a dealer that is really hurting on sales for the month.
That was your best post yet! Tip my hat for style.
Of course, G.M. is the reason for the news, since
it was their VP (Pierce sp?) who made the
headlines, complaining GM trucks model for model,
get 4% better fuel mileage now, yet Ford is
perceived as the greener manufacturer.
Valdez is ZEV certified. We know what a guzzler
that is. ZEV means zero element value. Vortecs are
more fuel efficient. That's what counts.
Best,
M_in_Seattle
Ryan
Would be nice though if I can turn off the Daylight Running Lights when in idle. It's not an option on the Tundra. I heard in the Silverado you just engage the parking brakes and the lights shut off.
And get spray on bedliner.
To turn off the auto headlights and DRLS we just push the dome override buttom 4 times then you hear a chime and they are off
Ryan
Also, I have heard many comments about the Tundra having a much more rigid frame than any of the other trucks. Can anyone give me factual information to support this, and I mean factual information that I can go to and find myself?
I don't see this to be true, but would like to know where the information comes from. If I am not correct, I want to know where the facts are to see for myself.
Thank you very much.
My buddy's F150 now has tint, running boards and brush guard (bull guard?? the grill up front) It looks sweet.
My other buddy is still waiting for his F250.
In these statements of higher quality, Tundra owners have mentioned some things without facts. Not personal experiences mind you, those are always subjective. The two things I questioned about are examples. I have not been able to find any proof that the Tundra has better ABS or more rigid frames, so until I find the facts or until someone presents them to me, I see them as subjective opinions like a personal testimony. Personal testimonies are fine, and have some merit, but blanket statements about more rigid frames, etc. need to have facts to be backed up.
That's called buyer's remorse!
For info on the Tundra frame, go to www.toyota.com, then click on Tundra, then Comparison, then Independent Reviews, then Frame Integrity. I'm not sure exactly how the test was performed or what to make of the comparison, it just shows that the body panels on the Tundra had much less deflection in a given situation than comparable Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.
should be glad there are stupid people like you"
First: He is under the mistaken impression that he talks for this group. I call it delusions of grandeur.
Second: I just posted some facts about F150s and he got all angry and defensive. Is it just him or is it all F150 owners?
Can F150 just not handle the truth that Tundras have greatly outclassed the F150? That he paid way too much money for less truck?
He seems to be in his own dreamworld where he actually believes that the Ford (and Chevy!) is the same quality as a Toyota. He needs to get his head out of the sand (or elsewhere) and face facts: The Tundra is just a much better value. The fact that it is much higher quality and reliability is just icing on the cake.
I think that the ABS system is designed (and maybe built) by Bosch. It is a four channel system. I highly recommend it.
When I bought my truck in December, ABS was a little hard to find, but it is worth it.
It sounds like you value quality. I have had my truck 9 months and not had a single problem. It has been the most reliable vehicle I have owned. The Tundra comes with a 5 yr. , 60,000 mile drivetrain warranty - the best. Ford, GM and Dodge only have 3 yr. warranties.
The Lexus V8 is amazing. It is extremely smooth and powerful. The cab is very quiet - almost no wind or road noise. It is quieter on the highway than my Maxima sedan. It handles very nimbly for a full size pickup.
I drove a Ford F150 before I bought my Tundra and in my opinion there was no comparison. The Ford was noisier, slower, had weaker brakes, and did not handle nearly as well. Drive both and decide for yourself.
The Silverado is rated -90% in predicted reliability by Consumer Reports - off their charts. The 4WD is predicted to be even worse. If you value quality and reliability - you should stay far away.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
truck would do better towing a trailer I recently
bought (2,500lbs). What I am after is a truck that
will pull the weight (all of the big 3 plus Toyota
w/V-8s will do that"
A Ford Ranger would easily pull 2500 pounds. Ditto for the S-10, Frontier, and the Tacoma. Unless you plan on buying a trailer with more weight, save your money.
I just have to comment on this; Tundras with V6's can pull twice that weight and some.
Also be sure that you can get the correct wiring harness for your trailer when you purchase the truck.
Ryan
Meanwhile the NHTSA has a recall out for defective antilock brakes on Silverados. That definitely is not quality. Case closed.
The horn is the biggest criticism you can find? Man, you are really digging.
The Tundra glass is thicker. That is one reason why the cab is so quiet.
I have a 4WD which works superbly without locking axle.
Who needs tow/haul mode or autotrac. It is more unreliable GM gimmicks.
Just keep telling yourself as your shakerado vibrates down the highway pinging away with its defective antilock brakes, defective rear windows, no sliding rear window, excessive bearing clearances on crankshaft that cause new engines to knock, that it is a "quality" vehicle. Hmm. They are selling brand new trucks with defective crankshafts requiring the replacement of the engine.
Quad - admit it - GM is trying out their new designs on unsuspecting truck buyers and they have major quality issues to work out. They got their -90% reliability prediction the easy way - they earned it.
RWELL- locking differential $245 option I think $245 200 something. Good explaination
The locking rear what it does if you on a slick surface and your rear wheels start to spin it locks the rear axle and give you better traction.
WHy did i just type this post im talking to a brick wall anyways
Ryan
Seems when it comes to the facts and figures, chevy owners get amnesia real quick. Helps them avoid the embarrassing truth about their Shakerados.
Why do you keep referring to shakerado? My truck has shook yet. You take one thing and you dont quit on it. Another thing about the numbers it was midnight when i typed that post. I had just got home i wasnt about to go look for them. Also it is on a video i have which tests all 4 trucks.
Was this a test that Toyota paid for? Kind of like the tow test were they picked the smallest V8 and highest rear end gear VS Tundra V8? Were the big three braking on ice going down a 60% slope with worn out tires VS the Tundra on dry flat road and new tires?
I have seen other tests that show Tundra out braking when empty and the Silverado winning the test with a load in the bed. This test was 60 MPH-0.
Oh, you are a real piece of work. You are the one whom gets defensive and starts all the name calling, and other little boy tactics. I don't need all that. I know I bought way more truck than your Tundra could ever live up to on its best day of "work" and for thousands less, unless you are one of the recent buyers taking advantage of all the Tundra price slashes. Makes people wonder why they have to slash the price so much just to get 100k sales. 100k sales is about 2 months worth for Ford. Maybe all my comparisons should be the trips to the soccer fields to drop off the kids for practice. That is about the only real "work" a Tundra ever sees. Of course, don't try and put them in the back seat. Even the kids would be complaining of cramped space. Way to go Toyota. You just created a great alternative to the littler, but almost identicle brother, the Tacoma.
harder to get the rear drums to kick in.
F150, you're wasting your time cause these
sissy's don't understand that they've been had.
it's obvious that they'll buy the newest whatever
without even checking into what they're getting
only to find it marked down 3-6 months later
cause the rest of the consumer world was smart
enough to see right through a gimmick from the
get go.
better luck on this one now.
...red
I would almost lay money down that if I worked a Tundra with all it's Tacoma spare parts the way I have worked my Fords over the years, I would shell that differential and transmission in less than 3 months. Good luck with the soccer kids.
"You take one thing and you don't quit on it."
Hmmm....sounds like someone's having a hard time
choking down their own brand of medicine!
Mean????? It made absolutely no sense to me maybe im missing something.
Ryan
If you still fail to understand your hypocrisy....well, "God loveth the fool".
Watch what you say ("God loveth the fool". ) it probably will come back to haunt you.
Ryan
Rwell....pssst...pull those rear wheels and drums off. A good shoe cobbler can re-sole them for you.
Cheeeep!!!!!
Oh yeah, there's been no mention of your Navy service either!
price on. i've been all wrong along here. you
guys are truly the most defensive bunch i've ever
seen or heard. let's hear some real facts about
your ABS brakes if that's what this topic is
truly about. who was in the navy is totally
irrelevant here. so why not quit whinin and get
on with the program.
...red