Lexus LS 600h/600h L
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Can't think of more to say, so I'll hand over the mic now...
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Those who fear the Hybrid (Arab Sheikhs and Big Oil-Men) will stick with Benz-S600 and BMW-IL760 since these 2 vehicles consume more fuel.
high-resolution pictures
I'm sorry, but I just can't picture such a big car, well long, saving fuel. But I'll give a point to lexus for thinking of combining battery power and regular engine to boost the performance
Anyone have the size on the LS600h yet? The LS460 is smaller than the LS430. Both are smaller than the competition MB "S" class. It shows in the sales figures.
Why??? Please explain your rationale.
Anyone have the size on the LS600h yet?
202" for the LS600HL - same as the LS460L. 198" for the LS600H and the LS460 and both nearly 2" bigger than the LS430.
It shows in the sales figures
What shows?
BTW - what ever happened to the flags?
The full size Lexus vehicles are off by at least 50% in sales and the "S" class Mercedes is selling 2 to 1 over the LS series.
Yes the new Lexus is longer. I was talking about passenger room and trunk space. Both are smaller for the new LS over the LS430. And the LS430 was already smaller than the S500 its main competition. Even the 7 series BMW is outselling the LS Lexus.
Lexus announced many months ago that it would stop producing the LS430 earlier than planned because demand for the new car was high and they needed to add capacity for it.
You couldn't pick a worse comparative - first year of a new model vs last year of an expiring model. It's a given and it'll be the same thing on the next go round of both cars.
For the year as a whole the LS will easily outsell the 7-series as the LS in the last 3 months of 2006 will blow away 7-series sales.
The prior LS sacrificed styling for interior space. Now they've gone bolder and sacraficed the interior roominess for styling cues. But I drove both LS models. Plenty of space in the SWB model and the LWB is cavernous.
The EPA has both the LS460 and LS460 L with the same interior space and the L with a very small trunk. 11 cubic feet is not suitable for any kind of travel. With just 103 cubic feet of interior space it is only one foot bigger than last years Camry. Not what I would consider cavernous. Unless they gave the wrong specifications to the EPA. If the LS460 L beats out the 760 BMW it will not be over trunk space or roomy interior. The BMW has 40% more trunk for luggage and golf clubs. Our LS400 is marginal for trunk space and it is 14 Cubic feet. To each his own.
If the EPA says both the 460 and 460 L have the same interior space, then it's an OBVIOUS MISTAKE! The 460 L has about 5 inches of additional rear legroom!
The trunk space is 18 cubic feet, unless you order rear coolbox or other trunk reducing options. I'm sorry, but I just can't seem to see what you have against this car, and you're fighting a losing battle.
By the way, the 460 gets 19/27 mpg, which is already better than 20 mpg in combined driving. The 600h L will get better city mileage than highway, so your estimate will be WAY OFF! See for yourself.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/08/31/lexus-ls600h-444bhp-and-29-7-mpg/
In the same class as the S for gas consumption... I don't think so. :P
The LS brochure indicates that the LS600HL will have all the LS460L standard features plus the following with their costs as options on the 460L shown where known or estimated where not known:
Adaptive variable air suspension $ 2,120
ML audio system 2,530
Electronic parking assist 1.200
LED headlamps (Estimated) 1,000
19" alloy wheels (Estimated based on Mercedes) 1,200
Smart access card key (Estimated based on Mercedes) 1,100
Total $ 9,150
Base price of LS460L 71,000
Price before Hybrid pkg and AWD pkg $ 80,150
Hybrid pkg Based on GS450H and RX400H 6,000
AWD pkg Based on GS450H and RX400H 2,000
Total Base price $ 88,150
Add all other available options except
Exec seating pkg and Touring pkg (redundant) 8,481
Total with all options except Exec seating pkg $ 96,631
It will be interesting to see how close this comes to the real thing. I could be totally off-base. It wouldn't be the first time.
I am sorry, but I live right here in San Diego, and there is NO dealership called El Cajon Lexus.... There are 3 Lex dealers in town - Carlsbad Lexus, Kearny Mesa Lexus, and Bob Baker Lexus...
And a 1990 LS versus a 2007 LS is like comparing a 1990 S-class versus a 2007 S550 ! Any difference in your opinion ? Even my 1999 LS is no where as smooth, refined and luxurious as the 430, not to even compare to a 460 ! I will say you are comparing apples to oranges, and simply basing your argument on paper stats... Go ahead and stop by any of these dealerships, and if they have an LS on the lot (doubtful) you may actually get to sit in and check out the dimensions. Maybe then you can update your views on this car...
.....
Total Base price $ 88,150
Add all other available options except
Exec seating pkg and Touring pkg (redundant) 8,481
Total with all options except Exec seating pkg $ 96,631
It will be interesting to see how close this comes to the real thing. I could be totally off-base. It wouldn't be the first time.
Good analysis !
But you need to add a few others not found on any 460 series
5L motor
LED hi/lo beams (exclusive to the 600 series)
leather-stitched dash (exclusive to the 600 series)
and a few other items Lexus is keeping close to its chest which may be exclusive to the 600 series as well...
My price forecast is $110K loaded...
Now bring on the L650 or whatever they're calling it. A V12 Hybrid, wow!!!
ARE YOU JOKING???
ARE YOU BLIND???
What is with you? This is a MAJOR styling jump from the last LS, inside and out.
It's possible. Also I should point out, LS 430 yearly sales in the past have exceeded even the new S-class sales, currently. I expect the LS 460 to do the same. But as for LS 600h L, I'm still uncertain what they want the car to be in terms of sales.
I have posted earlier the first 100 LS 600h L with special features, badging, etc.
I find both cas quite attractive with no copying at all.
In all honesty I do to. I find myself in a strange place. Somewhere between Bio-Willie and the Prius crowd. I have worked hard all my life and am retired. I can afford to drive anything I want. I cannot find anything I want. I would feel guilty with a car like the LS600h. It will in all likelihood get less mileage than the GS450h. GS450h owners are reporting 22 MPG average. If you can drive the LS600h and get the MPG from the article why bother having all that power. If I am driving a Porsche I am not into pulse and glide. I am into back roads with lots of curves and 80-120 MPH acceleration. I don't need to feel green. I have 3 farms with lots of trees. So I am producing more than my share of oxygen. So I guess I will leave all the LS600h cars for you guys that want a car that will go 0-60 in two seconds. I just cannot see how it has any socially redeeming value. Which was my original premise. Is the LS600h a gas saver or a gas guzzler?
I don't quite get this one. The LS430's sales aren't anywhere near the sales of the new S-Class this year.
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But marketing a sensible product that addresses the total picture is the motive. I’m not convinced bragging rights has much to do with it. That’s a marketing by-product in my opinion and there's a way to go before any bragging can be done. They have to produce hybrids profitably and with considerable volume first.
Having said that, I would love to drive around in a performance hybrid and I know the early adopters are enthused about them also. But there is an intrique with this group of buyers that doesn't reflect the main market which is the market that has to be conquered.
I still see Toyota's total hybrid effort as a beta project. We are so early in the game with these cars.
If the product benefits and profits increase to the point where they justify the price, then these cars can take off, but it is no where near this point yet. We can’t possibly look at the current pattern of hybrid sales and say they are a lock for overwhelming success. BTW, I buy my cars, but if I am to get any hybrid other than a Prius I would only lease. There is no way I would want to be holding on to today’s GS 450h or LS 460h in three or four years. Obsolete technology: THIS is the only comparison I would make with computers.
Actually, I can't wait for the 600h to come out. I finally got to drive the GS 460h at the Taste and was very impressed, but the trunk space is a VERY big problem for me. I’m wondering what improvements in this regard will be made with the 600h because the trunk space in the 460 is not great to begin with, an aspect that is hard to ignore.
As gas remains high and potentially higher due to geo-politics and demand from high growth economies (China and India), hybrid and clean-burning diesels will only become more popular, not less.
I see the hybrid getting better just like Maxhonda opined. Try to buy a Prius today.... It still commands MSRP, and remains hard to find. A our gas approaches $3/ gallon and higher, the American demand will once again undergo another fundamental shift to high mpg cars and trucks. This change is already in place and is catching on. I have an I-4 car which gets me 25mpg or thereabouts, yet I inherently feel this is not good enough and continue to wonder if I shouldn't buy something even more gas efficient... And that's coming from someone with 2 V-8 powered vehicles...
The sign of the times....
All that a hybrid gains you is recovering the energy lost due to braking, aside from running the engine at its optimum speed. All the energy required to overcome wheel friction and air resistance still has to come from the gasoline, so I doubt that you can ever get to anything like 75 mpg at typical driving speeds.
Of course in a semi-electric vehicle that gets plugged into the electric outlet in your garage you can get much better mpg's, because you are using energy from the electric utility in lieu if gasoline.
Anyway, that's what's in the future, but Hybrids are what's happening today. I like to think of hybrids as a midpoint on the way to abondoning gas for transportation.
Not sold on sky high oil prices OAC. I think we were in a bubble. Econmically I think the right price for oil is $45-48 a barrel. Throw in GEO-political stuff and add $5-10 a barrel. So I still think we are on the high side of a more normalized oil price.
I also noted Lexus LS shipments of a tad over 2K so they actually only counted a half month of shipments to match October retail sales. This tells me the plan is to defer the sales a perpetual month until they have a need for them by controlling title transfer to dealers. So another blockbuster earnings quarter for Toyota is coming up. CFO rule number 1 - always defer revenue when you don't need it and always accelerate it when you do and make sure you have the audit trail covered. Toyota and Lexus are in deferral mode right now.
By the way all these LS boards are driving me crazy. Don't know where to post anymore. Do we really need a navigation system board?? It may take a year to rack up 100 posts on there if the discussion is just that. Any day now I'm expecting a trunk board, an ML board, a rear sheet shade board and a side mirror board - not necessarily in that order.