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Lexus LS 600h/600h L

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  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I think pre-dominant electric witth support for charging by gas (essentially an 80-20 electric vs a 10-90 electric in current hybrids) is the future so I pretty much agree with you. Biggest issue enviromentally will be battery disposal. IMO hydrogen is 25+ years away and if the battery proves out as a great energy dynamic hydrogen may never get here. Lots and lots of issues with hydrogen.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    By the way all these LS boards are driving me crazy. Don't know where to post anymore. Do we really need a navigation system board?? It may take a year to rack up 100 posts on there if the discussion is just that. Any day now I'm expecting a trunk board, an ML board, a rear sheet shade board and a side mirror board - not necessarily in that order.

    I've pretty much given up on reading model specific boards, since there are way to many. This board for every aspect of a every vehicle is the most ridiculous thing I've seen Edmunds do since 1999. You take one board in which people talk about price, performance, styling, etc. etc. that reads like a good, intelligent conversation and break it up into a board about each in which you'll get 1 or 2 posts per day! Flat out doesn't make sense.

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Guys, I'm sorry you don't like what we're doing, but commenting about it here is not helping anything. Please read this post by the Director of Community Sylvia, "Forums Software! Your Questions Answered..." #3221, 26 Oct 2006 3:15 am. If you have further comments to make, please make them in that discussion.

    I'm sorry, but going forward I will be removing posts that contain comments about the new format without notice. We need to either let this drop or talk about it in the proper place.

    Please do not reply to this post. If you want to discuss this with me, I'll be glad to do it in email.

    Thanks for your cooperation.
  • An interesting article on hybrid clean exhaust vs diesel.
    link title

    Between, I did not realize that diesel exhaust has been classified as a probable human carcinogen :surprise:

    Hybrid powered buses are gaining footing in major NA cities.
    link title
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    We just got back from Aruba. My wife and I were planning to visit our daughter and son-in-law and also see the Auto Show in the Detroit area. However, a better offer came along ;-) and were were invited to stay a week in Aruba with friends. To make a long story short, my daughter and her husband went to the auto show a few days ago and inquired about the LS600HL trunk space as I had requested her to do so. In fact, both my the daughter and her husband asked two different representatives there about the trunk size. They both got the same answer. "The trunk space is the same size as in the LS460L (18 cf without the rear seat upgrade and 12 cf without)". My daughter was smart enough to ask about the battery taking up some of the trunk space and thus further reducing the trunk volume. However, she was told that it is ONLY the rear seat upgrade that reduces the trunk space and not the battery. This news obviously startled me. I still think that the representatives were full of you know what, but is it possible that they actually knew what they were talking about? Has anyone else heard any new news on this? If this is true, then where is the battery placed so as not to take up any trunk space? Man I hope this is true! By the way, my daughter who is 27 said the LS600HL is a very nice looking car. This sort of amazes me since in the past she has always told that me she thought the the previous LS models (including the 2004 LS430) had been too conservative and bland looking until now.

    I am posting this on this forum since the LS600HL forum has been totally dead.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I, too, think those reps were full of it. I don't think there is anywhere else to place the batteries. Can't go under the rear seat (gas tank). Can't go under the car (a la RX400h) unless you want to bottom out the car on its batteries.

    I hope I'm wrong, thoug.
  • Does anyone know if the LS600hL will be at the Washington DC show?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I agree about the reps. However, I'm hoping they somehow made advances in the electrical/spatial design. It would be a real feather in their cap if they did and it could be the make or break aspect of hybrids if they can implement this advanced design into the lower end cars too.
  • We own a 400h and the batteries are not located under the car, but under the rear seat. I guess you could consider it under the car too, but it is plausible that the batteries in the 600h are under the rear seat.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    Looking through the press release for the LS600h, it mentions a newly designed battery pack. The salesmen could be correct.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    For cyclone and others - I was told that the car will be at or just over $100K and that with the exec chair option it can reach to $120K. But the exec chair option is a custom order even on the LS600HL. They plan on selling about 2500 cars a year and much of the first year supply is already sold or deposited. Smaller Lexus dealerships will not even see the car unless someone custom orders it. The car will come in specialty colors and have other features and options that further differentiate it from the base LS460L. My dealership will get an allottment of 50 a year and they have 40 of the cars already sold. They are expecting - based on past history that about 10 of those 40 orders will fall off. One guy actually bought two LS600HL's - one for a house in Florida and one for a house here plus he bought several other LS460L's for his family. I'd love to say who it is but I can't. The same guy also deposited $100K for the Aston Martin seen in the James Bond movie (it's due in 2008 sometime) and wants to deposit the LF-A.

    Believe it or not there are already other people that want to deposit the Lexus LF-A as well. But they can't take deposits on a car that is not even officially approved for production yet. But from what I was told the LF-A is as close to a sure thing as there is right now and will probably sell in the $150K range. I'm also hearing the Lexus L650 is gonna happen at 625HP. The reason why the LS00HL HP is still under wraps is because of the L650. If they make the latter than the LS600HL is 450HP. If they don't they will tweak it to 500HP. Looks like there's no end to high end cars at Lexus in the near future.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Is it possible that the delay of the launch date for the LS600HL from April to June (or whatever month) is because Lexus is doing some last minute tweaking to solve the small trunk problem? As Konocar said above, maybe they are finding a way to place the battery under the rear seat. I am probably dreaming but what else is there to do after this disappointing Super Bowl? I was so hyped that my Patriots would once again be in it but we all know what happened a couple weeks ago.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I got Lexus magazine in the mail over the weekend and they had the LS600HL featured. The options list includes the special captains chair (as I call it) but it also lists the 4zone AC as an option. So they did not standardize that but they may make it a standard option on the delivered cars. They are doing that with just about all the LS460L's I've seen so I'm sure they will do it with LS600HL. That 4 zone air is the option that takes an 18' trunk and makes it a 12' one. So bottom line - if the battery doesn't cut into the trunk and I doubt it does - then you can get an 18' trunk on the LS600HL but you may have to make sure it's custom orderred. So if I were you I'd call the dealer and make sure they don't put the 4 zone air and rear seat electronics on the car you want.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    As always Len, thank you so much for the information. I hope it is true that it is not the battery but the AC that takes up all the space. According the dealer that I spoke to a couple months ago however, the salesperson was saying the the trunk space was smaller than on the LS460L with 4 zone climate control due to the battery taking up more space. He further stated that someone that saw the pre-production LS600HL saw the trunk space first hand. Now, it could be that they (Lexus) have been making adjustments of some sort since then due to all my complaining about the trunk space ;-). I am calling the dealer right now.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    His impression is that the LS600HL will come in at between $95 and 100K without the executive back seat upgrade. He says not to believe the crazy rumors that the MSRP will up up to 125K. That simply will not be the case.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    My dealer said most will be configured at 100-105K but fully optioned wouid run to $120K.

    Here's the link t the magazine in case you didn't get the hard copy. Hopefully it works.

    http://www.lexus.com/magazine/q107/feature_600h/feature_600h_0.html
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    This is quite helpful. Thanks! The only question remains whether or not the trunk size will be 18cf without the rear seat upgrade. I am going to get the dealer to try and research this. That is, find out once and for all the trunk size without the back seat "bologna".

    If indeed, I can custom order this awesome vehicle so that I get 18cf of trunk space, they have a sale. By the way, the salesman told me yesterday that my dealer (quite large) will only get 2 LS600HL's through the end of the year. This leaves little doubt that it will be quite an exclusive car. Since I am first on the list, it looks like I have a great chance to get one as long as I can custom order it to my needs.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    My dealer is 90% sold out now of his first year supply. Tagman saw a financial risk in this car. No way.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Len,

    Did your dealer actually say that the trunk size of the LS600HL will be 18cf as long as one does not order the rear seat upgrade package (executive seating, AC, cooler, etc.)? If so, where is the battery going to be located?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    No - I said that if the battery is not in the trunk and you pass on the rear seat climate control than I'd assume you get the same 18' trunk as the LS460L (w/o that option). It's the rear seat climate control that kills the trunk size.

    Have you sent an e-mail to Lexus HQ about this. I'm sure they'd answer. The car comes to market in May.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Got it. I misunderstood you. So, it is obviously a matter of the exact location of the battery. I asked the salesman today to find out for me what the trunk size will be without the executive seating., etc. I didn't even think of emailing Lexus HQ. I'm assuming the email address is on the Lexus website.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Customer support or something. Syswei once posted a link where you can chat live with a rep at HQ. If he's reading maybe he can link it again for you.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I just sent Lexus an email (access through "contact us" on Website) about my concerns. They are suppose to reply within 24 hours. I also see on the Website that yes, one can chat with them during the day (closed at 6PM CST). I will try this tomorrow. I will let everyone know what sort of answers I get.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    In the past hour, I both called and chatted with Lexus about the LS600HL. Both approaches gave me the same answer. The trunk space of the LS600HL will be increased without the executive rear seat and cooler options, but they could not tell me by how much. They said the specs will be coming out this spring.

    I also asked the guy in the chat room about the pricing of the car without these crazy options in the rear. Of course he could not answer that question. He said that the pricing information will be released closer to launch date (late April/early May).
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    They are so damm secretive!
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I think that top tier executives at Lexus should be hired by the CIA ;-).
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I assume you mean "trunk space" rather than "truck space" :). That would be fantastic but too good to be true I think. I wish they would give us more details on this stuff a lot sooner. Will the battery used in the LS600HL be a later generation than that used in the GS450H? If so, you may be right about your prediction.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I was hoping the battery of the LS600HL would be the Lithium-Ion, new information posted on the CL forum says that it is a Nickel Metal Hydride battery. This is from the Geneva Auto Show LS600HL preliminary technical specifications. This means that trunk size will be obviously smaller than that of the LS460L, but we still do not know by how much. The big question is, how much will the trunk space increase on the LS600HL by not ordering it with all that rear seat upgrade "stuff".

    Also, if the GS450H is 190 inches long and the LS600HL is 202.8 (same as the LS460L) inches in length, it would appear to me that you can add at least 4-5 CF to the LS600HL trunk space over that of the GS450H. According to the specs, the GS450H has a trunk capacity of only 7.5CF. Thus, I think we can safely say that without any adjustments made if one does not order it with the rear seat upgrade, that the trunk size should be approaching 12CF or more, right? Obviously, something does not add up here does it? I had heard that the trunk is very small due to the battery. But if it is at least 12CF, that is not too bad. If it is more like 15 CF without the rear seat upgrade, that would be awesome.

    Trying to figure out the trunk size of the LS600HL is driving me up the wall. So, please help me out here with your thoughts or suggestions. I very much would love to own this incredible vehicle, but I will not order it with a tiny trunk. By the way, I am first on the list with my dealer, so I know I can get one if I want it.
  • I took some photos of the LS 600h @ the Milwaukee Auto Show.

    The car is really hot, love the headlights.

    Here are the photos:

    Lexus LS600hL photos!

    Dave

    ps, can't wait to get my IS-F!
  • twq83twq83 Posts: 19
    Gentlemen,

    I'm new to this post but not the product .. The LS600hL is a very nicely engineered vehicle ....... Taken after the Avalon in size . doing some research with Michael Becker of Calif. Toyota & Lexus Product planning department the following has arrisen :

    The Same problem was inherant in the Camry hybrid ... Placement of the Battery Pack. The area behind the seats before the trunk was decided upon. Loss of truck space was dicided as a necessary evil .. the same will be for the LS600h Also, the Upgrade back seat options will not be available on the H model .......... :cry: This is what I have been told . But, until I actually see one in person I'll go with this.........

    Yes, I sell Lexus and am The Hybrid expert here ........
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I don't know where you are coming from here. Where did you get this information that the rear seat upgrade is not available on the LS600HL? That is ludicrous. It has already been announced as an option. Personally, I don't want the rear seat upgrade if it will give me extra trunk space without it. However, to state that it is not available makes no sense at all.
  • Agreed. Everything I've seen says that the rear seat upgrade is part ofthis.

    Dave
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Yes - that seems to be out in left field. It's going to be a lot harder to get the car without it as it's almost certainly going to one of Lexus' standardized options on cars shipped here. Not getting it may require a custom order IMO. Plus why on earth would Lexus have that on almost all LS460L's delivered and not have it on their more luxurious car. It makes no sense.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I both chatted and talked to Lexus today and asked about the trunk size with or without the rear seat upgrade option. I thought they might give me a bit more insight now that we are closer to production. Unfortunately, they are still clueless.
  • rwerwe Posts: 4
    Here's a reality check on the LS600hl.
    The car is being built one way only, namely ALL OPTIONS.
    EXECUTIVE PACKAGE (OTTOMAN,REAR ENTERTAINMENT,REAR A/C PRE-COLLISION ETC. APPROXIMATELY 1500 WILL BE BUILT. THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED IN THE CAR BUSINESS A HALO CAR. LEXUS WANTS THEIR HYBRIDS TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH PERFORMANCE,AND SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY. THEY ALSO WANT THIS CAR TO ELEVATE THE IMAGE OF LEXUS TO A PREMIUM BRAND STATUS. INSTEAD OF THE UPPER CRUST OF OUR SOCIETY DRIVING UP TO THE ACADEMY AWARDS IN A PRIUS THE CAN NOW HAVE A LUXURY ALTERNATIVE.
    I'm a Master Certified Salesman at the 3rd largest Lexus dealer in the US and ranked 10th out of over 1300 in the Eastern Area. I know what I'm talking about. We may see between 2 or 3 of these cars per month if were lucky. Most dealers will get 1 or 2 per year so don't expect to special order this car.
    By the way Rear A/C drops trunk from 18 to 12 cu ft.Even less on Hybrid
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Since when has Lexus "NOT" been considered a "Premium Brand?"

    Who considers them as less than that?
  • rwerwe Posts: 4
    You've never heard Lexus referred to as a fancy Toyota by envious consumers or other auto manufactures??
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, sure I have.

    But who are the customers? Other auto manufacturers or the general car-buying public?

    I have considered Lexus a premium brand since the original LS400 came out and got rave review after rave review.

    Lexus finishes in the top of almost every car reliability/owner satisfaction/JD Power survey that comes out.

    Usually higher than MB and Jaguar and Cadillac.

    I'm thinking that not too many people outside the "circle jerk of jealous competitors" consider Lexus anything BUT a "Premium Brand."
  • rwerwe Posts: 4
    How a car scores vs. how it is perceived or what it represents are 2 different things. How do you explain Mercedes Benz sales increases when it ranks dead last in every survey in terms of reliability. People want to be seen
    or pull up to the valet car park in what they think says the've arrived. Lexus doesn't enjoy the same status in Europe and Japan that you think they do in the US. Thats part of the reason for a Lexus priced over $100k. They want to elevate the image of the brand.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I get the Non-USA thing for sure.

    IMHO though, anyone with any degree of social awareness in the USA will know that an expensive Lexus parked in Valet has the same cachet as an expensive MB.

    I can see why they want to improve overseas though.
  • sidgriggssidgriggs Posts: 122
    My Lexus dealer states he has two equip/price levels for the 600 = 115,000 & 125,000
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Lexus LS4XX are premium cars. LX470 is a premium SUV. The IS, GS, RX and ES are just fancy Toyota's. My wife switched from Mercedes to Lexus in 1990. Now she is going back because Lexus has diluted the brand with a lot of kiddy cars, street racers & quite frankly poor looking luxury cars. Though the latest LS460 and the LS600 are an improvement over the last models. The SC is a copy of an Audi TT and a poor looking one at that. What luxury Sports car buyer would buy an SC430 over an SL series? The early 1990s were the heyday for Lexus. They are losing the luxury car buyers to BMW and Mercedes, fast. If they are happy with those just wanting a blinged up Toyota that's fine.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I don't know who you are or what you do for sure, but from everything I have seen in recent weeks, you are wrong. The rear seat upgrade (ottoman, cool box, etc.) is an option. It has already been announced as such at the Geneva Auto Show and elsewhere. I do agree that they will build very few of these vehicles (at least the first year). But since I am first on the list at a large dealership, I know I can get one. I am just waiting to see the specs on the trunk size without the rear seat upgrade.

    BTW, you don't need to use all caps.
  • With no downmarket counterparts in the JDM or American markets, neither the GS or IS are 'fancy Toyotas'. They are, however, moderaterly successful attempts to cater to a more performance-seeking demographic. Besides, these sedans can't be any more 'kiddy' than that paragon of youth known as the BMW 3-series.

    Not every potential Lexus customer is in the market for an enormous, conventional luxury sedan such as the LS, or an antaean, globetrotting premium SUV, such as the aging LX. Many people are content with the daily practicality of the RX and ES, and these people will probably be the ones upgrading to the more luxurious vehicles of the Lexus lineup throughout the years.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Asked my dealer and they said the car has been pushed back to June/July for delivery. It's probably making the rounds now to dealers as a show car based on Gteach's post (though my guy didn't know this for sure) so you may want to ask when it will be at your dealerships. The only price data my guy has is that it will be over $100K. Awhile back he did say that he thought the fully loaded LS600HL would top out around 120-125K though. It does seem that the higher Lexus goes with price on this car the higher the interest is. I'm also wondering if the delay has something to do with next gen battery or is purely marketing related. There's a story in th Wall Street Journal today about Lexus and lavish parties for new models but I haven't read it yet.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    This is all very interesting. That would be great if they are holding it back to install a the Lithium Ion battery, but I doubt is the case. Did you read rwe's comments above concerning the lack of options? I think he is wrong.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    The options are aleady specified on the LS600HL website. So if that's the case and preference orders are allowed you can get what you want. The issue is how dealers will order them or how Lexus will build the bulk of them. This is a low volume, highest end Lexus car so my feeling is most will be loaded with every option except the captain's chair. Note how MB made the S600 with everything standard. I do think that's the way halo cars will go so I can see his points. But I disagree on the captain's chair (exec chair whatever we want to call it) as it is likely a "Preference Order", and IMO that's because it renders the car as a 4 passnger vehicle. If that thing still allowed a 5th passenger then I believe it would have become standard or a standardized option and I'd buy into the argument a lot more. If you notice Lexus states that option is a special order car in both the LS460L and LS600HL.

    There is also no way on earth Lexus will have fancy rear seat electronics available in the LS460 and LS460L and those things are not available in this car. I read that somewhere and that's crazy. I think it goes the other way and you will almost have to custom order the car to NOT get the rear electronics. My feeling is this car will ship at $110K with all options but the Captain's chair included on virtually every car they build. If you can build one from scratch and do a preference order then I'd guess they would start at $100K. But again I'd assume that every car shipped here has all but the captains chair included. This is just my gut feeling, I don't have hard data.

    BTW - my dealer is now oversold on his first year allotment which is about 40 LS600HL's.
  • First video review of LS600hL

    The reviewer sucks, but the car looks gorgeous, elegant...

    Like the LED head lights!

    As expected, the hybrid powertrain is smoother, quieter, and has strong(er) midrange power compared to other NA v12s... v6 fuel economy+SULEV II.
This discussion has been closed.