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Lexus LS 600h/600h L

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    You might want to cancel that LS460L after you read this post.

    tricky73, "Lexus GS 450h: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #43, 18 Apr 2007 7:11 pm
  • hendjazhendjaz Posts: 155
    I don't think so. Read further and you will see this gentleman posts the same thing each time and is the lone ranger in terms of his experience, which is his experience and not that of others that have owned the 460L for a while now.

    I actually traded my 450h for the 460L and would not go back even though there is nothing bad to say about the 450h. The 460L is a considerable leap forward beyond the 450h imho. Nearing 6 months now and the 460L is trouble free, as expected.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    That doesn't in the least bit sway me. I know a half dozen folks that now have the 460 (all of whom came out of 430 leases) and they all say it's better than ever - by far. I'll combine that with my experience behind the wheel (seats were also excellent) anyday. Also when someone posts the same thing 100 times I dismiss it altogether. His post would have been much more effective if he posted it where it matters once or twice instead of continuously. If anything I'm going the other way and seriously giving the LS600HL second thoughts right now.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    For myself I would take the LS over the GS any day. Just seemed strange seeing someone unhappy with an LS460. Like you say not many are.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If you have the means, and want it all, potentially you could have:

    1. Virtually all LS460L optional equipment now becomes STD.

    2. A noticably Faster vehicle, that can break 5 seconds. "The New Fast"!

    3. A quieter vehicle than even the LS460, with less reliance on internal combustion.

    4. Exclusive features only available on the 600h.

    5. A better value than any comparable German, $10-30k less.

    6. The most efficient vehicle in the class, by as much as 50%. Much lower cost of ownership than any other $100k vehicle.

    7. Exclusivity. Simply the best Lexus you can buy. Period. You are no longer one of 30k others. :surprise:

    8. Virtually zero emissions, even better for the environment than your average family sedan, with similar economy.

    Just off the top of my head, the vehicle will be best in class in many respects. And not much of a price penalty vs. a loaded LS460L. A $10-15 difference.

    It's a much smarter purchase than a S600 over an S550, for example. The S600 just adds power, at the expense of efficiency. :(

    If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up. It is so choice! ;)

    DrFill
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Your reasons are "music to my ears" Doc! I totally agree.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    As Len has stated, the person that was degrading the LS460 was getting very annoying by repeating the same thing over and over again. The great majority of the owners have been extremely pleased with the LS460 and LS460L.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    My dealer just told me that each Lexus dealership will be getting 2 LS600HL's with the executive package in June or July. Evidently, that had already been decided along time ago. Don't ask me why Lexus made this type of decision. I imagine the dealer will have at least one of these as a demo for a while since I doubt, folks will be rushing to get it with this package but who knows.

    The good news for me is that I will likely be getting my premium package with advanced pre-collision vehicle with the color combo smoky granite mica and black interior around August or September. The other day the dealer was concerned that it may be the end of the year before it is shipped. Yes this is at least 4 months down the road, but I am told that at least I will be getting one since I am first on the list.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Edmunds just tested a LS600h and got no better acceleration than a LS460L.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    They've become far more consistent and reasonable than C&D, and others, in their reviews. :)

    I forgot about the AWD, which really should be optional on at least the 460, if not both.

    That's costing you around 300 lbs. right thur, plus at least 2 MPG! :sick:

    880+ lbs. is a load, and the hybrid's advantages are effectively cancelled out by this cross to bear.

    Expect around 20-21 MPG, which is still pretty good, but no better than a 460. :surprise: It may get 5 MPG more, but will lose at least a second to 60.

    As was mentioned, these level cars are not about being a "Smart Buy", it's about status, within the marque, and within cardom.

    At least the value of the Touring Pkg. brakes was realized, dramatically slowing a significantly heavier vehicle. Hopefully, this will become standard by the mid-gen refresh in 2010. :blush:

    DrFill
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Frankly, I am somewhat disappointed and surprised if this review is accurate. Could it be that some of the specs are disappointing because this is a pre-production model? For example, we all know how deceiving the C & D review was in the breaking distance and acceleration when they were testing a pre-production model of the LS460L. Be that as it may, I do now have some concern that I am making the right decision because of this review. Someone please help alleviate my concern by telling me that this review is not accurate.

    Wasn't it AutoWeek that had a much more favorable review of the LS600HL a few weeks ago? BTW, the implication by Edmunds that only the filthy rich will be attracted to this car is pure gunk. I don't consider myself filthy rich by any means.
  • This just a review on a pre-production car. At least the interior is not the LS600hL one with leather wrapped dash, no driver monitor etc. I think IL too focused on picking things. And I don't believe Lexus is that stupid to make LS600hL run slower than LS460.

    Read the Audi A8 L W12 review on the same page may let you feel better. :) IL said the Audi W12 is well worth the money, but the LS600hL isn't? :confuse:
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I think maybe a better term would be, a multi millionaire would be the demographic for the LS600HL. The connotation of filthy rich is that it is bad to have money. I say it is bad to NOT have money. It is better to keep excess cash in circulation buying expensive items than hoarding it for your children to squander.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Please take that review in proper context.

    It was 2 years before the LS460 came out, which matches it's acceleration with a V8 for potentially half the price, with almost as much luxury.

    The Audi got 19 MPG (the 600h should beat that), took longer to stop, and was more expensive.

    A $90k Lexus LS460L is a much "better buy" than either, it would seem.

    Many customers won't need the AWD, and given the weight gain, the hybrid drive is nullified, as is the power increase.

    As impressed as IL was with the LS460L, they seem confounded by the 600h. I can't say i blame them. As good as the 600h is, it seems to fall short of greatness. :cry:

    DrFill
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I was shocked when I read it it. The good news for the moment is that the review and specs as they appeared yesterday curiously disappeared. I wonder what happened.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    For $100K+, the hybrid LS, is a bit too heavy. it's gained almost 1,000 lbs!!! For the $30K premium over a stock LS460L, Lexus should have taken some weight saving measures on this behemoth, like skin most of the exterior in light weight aluminum. A 1,000lb. gain in weight basically offsets the addition of the hybrid drive! Which renders the Ls600h basically pointless!
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Not that impressed were they?

    If you like the Lexus LS 460 L you'll like the Lexus LS 600h L. If you love the Lexus LS 460 L you'll love the Lexus LS 600h L. And it really is that simple.

    But if you're truly concerned with man's impact on the environment, you'll buy a Honda Fit. Get the Sport model with the optional leather.

    I know, ain't gonna happen. You're rich beyond belief and wouldn't be caught dead in a subcompact. But you also have five 10,000-square-foot homes that you're constantly heating and air-conditioning, plus a Gulfstream G550 so you can avoid the ticket counter, and you're feeling a little guilty about it.

    Don't. Leave the guilt for the middle class.

    Instead, do what Al Gore does, buy some of those Carbon Credits and fire up the jet for another ski weekend. Aspen is lovely this time of year. Oh, and buy yourself a Mercedes S600. Its 5.5-liter V12 cranks out 510 hp and a colossal 612 lb-ft of torque, enough to blow the Lexus LS 600h L into the weeds. It even qualifies for a ULEV II emissions rating. That's ULEV as in Ultra Low Emission Vehicle. In other words you can kiss the tailpipe for a week without any side effects, including guilt.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I'll never take any review of a pre-production car seriously for the rest of my life. I'll also bet a lot of money that Audi's V12 gets between 12-15 mpg in the real world.

    "Don't. Leave the guilt for the middle class."

    "Instead, do what Al Gore does, buy some of those Carbon Credits and fire up the jet for another ski weekend. Aspen is lovely this time of year. Oh, and buy yourself a Mercedes S600. Its 5.5-liter V12 cranks out 510 hp and a colossal 612 lb-ft of torque, enough to blow the Lexus LS 600h L into the weeds. It even qualifies for a ULEV II emissions rating. That's ULEV as in Ultra Low Emission Vehicle. In other words you can kiss the tailpipe for a week without any side effects, including guilt.

    Our crusader against global warming also has a house that cosumes 5-10X the energy of an upper middle class 4500 foot house. The guy has always struck me as one that practices the opposite of what he preaches. Worse yet is my scientific knowledge of weather can see right thru the garbage he tries to get headlines with.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Len,

    I am very much interested to get your opinion on this less than complimentary review by Edmunds. I'll tell you what. I have gone from near ecstasy to almost depression in just 24 hours after reading this review.

    There are a few things that really bother me. Even though, if a person is going to spend that much money on a car, gas mileage is not really a concern, it is a concern for me. It is the principal of the thing that affects me psychologically. It does defeat the idea of a hybrid. Come on! Getting 20 mpg on the highway stinks. I really expected an average (city and highway) gas mileage of at least 25-26. And even though it does not make much difference to me (I would not be racing with the car), why is it testing so slow from 0 to 60? I also see Edmunds concern about the Nickel hydride (?) battery disposal problem down the road. Maybe Lexus should have held off production until the Lithium Ion battery was ready.

    I obviously love all the high tech features of the car and of course I like the fact that it is AWD, but I am now having second thoughts about getting this car. I cannot believe how my mood has changed on this in less than a day after reading the Edmunds review. I have placed quite a lot of trust in Edmunds over the years. My only hope is that all these findings are bogus because it is a pre-production model. What do you think? If these results stand, I am now leaning toward cancelling my order.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I'd never let one review affect me - particularly since this is a pre-production car. I'd see what other reviews say of the real production car. The LS460L tested by C&D was way off in weight, which then skewed virtually every test they made, and I have feeling so is the weight of the car Edmunds tested.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Yes, that is good advice and you re-affirmed my thinking that I should wait until I see other reviews of a production model. If this review came from C & D, I would not be as concerned, but it really hit me coming from Edmunds. Do you have any idea of when we can expect some other reviews? I imagine there will be several reviews in the next few weeks, but an actual production model review might take a little longer.

    BTW, I did not realize you had already posted your opinion on the Edmunds review. I was working and occasionally typing my post and did know you already gave an answer.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    AWD, and enough Duracell to power a city block, they're probably right about the tonnage. And since the power gain was only 57HP, can't say I'm surprised by it's performance.

    Spending a week with it would help a lot, in a review.

    Kinda falls into the Honda Accord Hybrid catergory. :sick:

    Maybe if they targeted 30MPG, with 400HP, it would be an easier sell?

    DrFill
  • Does the hybrid Lexus have a plusher interior? At least the BMW, Audi, and Benz have full leather.

    I recently bought a Camry Hybrid and leave my Audi(S8) for the weekends. I wouldn't buy a hybrid that didn't offer excellent mileage. I would rather see a LS hybrid with 30% better mileage--that I would consider.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    IMHO, it's about perspectives and expectations. Lexus marketting dropped the proverbial ball on this one. 21mpg is actually not that bad at all for such a heavy car. Over 12k miles in a year, the difference between 21mpg vs. 25mpg is 571 gallons vs. 480 gallons, or rougly 90 gallon difference. A typical AWD V12 like the Audi A8 would have returned 12mpg in real life driving (those cars see a lot of city driving), the same 12k miles would have required 1000 gallons! That would be over 400 gallon difference! Lexus marketting needs to get a handle on this one. It's about time Americans use the gal/100miles number instead of the mpg number that we have. The gas an LS600HL saves over a comparable AWD V12 HELC in a year is far more than a Prius saves over a Corolla. The difference between 50mpg vs. 35mpg is only 100 gallons in 12k miles.

    Lithium Ion battery has a shelf-life problem. None of my cell phone, computer or camera lithium batteries have ever lasted more than a couple years, even with minimal usage. Lithium batteries start expiring the day they are produced. The charge capacity of LI batteries decrease as a function of time and ambient temperature. The half life is only a year or less at room temperature.

    Hope that helps :-) Think of the extra weight as safety device . . . you know, the old joke about Rolls-Royce owner's theory about car crashes: it's better if the other bloke's car bounces off and leaves me unscathed :-)
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Very good points. I still think you need to see real curb weight. Nothing interferes with acceleratrion or MPG more than curb weight. If that's overdone on the preproduction car than both mileage and 0-60 speed are underdone.

    Cyclone - I'd get the curb weight of the car from your sales guy and see how it compares to the weight in the Ednunds car. Regardless if the car goes 0-60 in the same timespan as the LS460L than they should have built a V12 hybrid or just a V12. For the extra money the performance has to be significantly more than the base car. What I'd be expecting to buy in that car is a faster 0-60 time, 450 horses and 23-25mpg. If they make good on that tham the hybrid is an awesome car.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Why not make it an LS450hL? Use the V6 Hybrid power train which is slightly lighter. It would be adequate acceleration and could offer closer to 30 MPG on the highway. If you can afford the LS600h you can also afford a Ferrari. When you need to show some speed pull the Ferrari out of the garage. I think that Lexus missed a good chance to make a fine luxury sedan that is truly eco friendly. Just another opinion.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    1. Decision to make all LS hybrids AWD, adds weight, hurts maximum performance.

    2. The smaller engine would be moving a bigger vehicle, another weight nullifying the Hybrid. It moves the lighter GS in 5.5, and won't move that quickly with another 600-1000 lbs.

    3. Hybrids get metter MPG in the city, not on the highway, as the gas engine shuts off when stopped, and electric power is used to get the vehicle moving again.

    It seems, based on this one review, that the 600h wanted to do two things, and did neither well. It didn't IMPROVE economy over the 460, which is necessary. V12 economy is not a real point of reference. And it isn't any faster, with all the weight penalties. :sick:

    Maybe they said the bigger gas engine will help with speed, and the hybrid will help with economy.

    It just doesn't sell against it's own 460, which can produce similar economy and thrust. :confuse:

    DrFill
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I'd get the curb weight of the car from your sales guy and see how it compares to the weight in the Ednunds car. Regardless if the car goes 0-60 in the same timespan as the LS460L than they should have built a V12 hybrid or just a V12. For the extra money the performance has to be significantly more than the base car. What I'd be expecting to buy in that car is a faster 0-60 time, 450 horses and 23-25mpg. If they make good on that tham the hybrid is an awesome car.

    I agree with you on all points lj. However, I now have my doubts that at least the gas mileage will be much improved. In fact, on the Edmunds review, the specs show an actual EPA gas mileage of 22 in town and 20 on the highway. Edmunds got less than this when they tested it (18.2). In my opinion, that is rather deflating (being a hybrid). The 0 to 60 time may get faster if indeed the curb weight is lighter than they claim. The bottom line for me however is that I am quite disappointed at this time. I will wait and see what other reviews have to say.
  • twq83twq83 Posts: 19
    Just chiming in with my $0.02 .......... cyclone4, if you ask me Mr. Hoffman has a bone to pick with any V-8 Hybrid ........ ( his last article on the Accord V-6 Hybrid reads like a copy of the Lexus opinion. But it is just that ..."HIS" opinion!!! We don't know how the vehicle was outfitted ..... according to the video it has the Executive Class Seating Package ( the 11.7 cf Trunk gives it away ) and that is the reason for the increase in weight. Even so I have driven Hybrids for the last 7 years ( 2000 Prius, 2005 Prius, 2007 Camry Hybrid, Rx 400h, GS 450h, and can't wait to get my hands on a LS 600hL to try out!!!) and in every case I have been able to exceed the EPA mileage estimates on a regular basis ( Best trip= Virginia to Vermont and back 71.4 mpg ...... 77% Highway driving ). I would not expect Edmunds to drive like me but I'm sure they put the "performance exercise" to the test there way. Remember Edmunds screaming about legal suits to prevent Toyota from posting 60/51 on the Prius since they couldn't arrive at that. How many stories have you heard since then of people not only obtaining it, but, surpassing it!!!! Let the "officials" do all the testing and suppositions!!! Then get in it yourself and see what you think. C&D, Motor Trend, Hybrid.com, Consumer Reports, all are going to have there opinions......... And that just what they are. Get in it and drive it yourself ...... then make your decission. If you can't get 25/30MPG Average ....... I'll come to you and show you how to do it.

    Thanks for letting me rant ;)

    Tom Quinn
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Even so I have driven Hybrids for the last 7 years ( 2000 Prius, 2005 Prius, 2007 Camry Hybrid, Rx 400h, GS 450h

    Out of curiousity what kind of mileage were you able to get from the GS450h? No one has posted on GH. I believe one poster here mentioned getting about 20MPG with his GS450h. It is hard to imagine the LS600h would get as good as the GS450h.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Is to spend a week with the car, under all driving situations, but that obviously can't be done on a test drive.

    Given the new EPA MPG tests, and the size and weight of the 600h, factoring in performance testing by Edmunds, 20-21 MPG sounds about right. Expecting more out of a 400HP car that weighs over 50000 lbs. seems desperate. Maybe if you live in NYC, you might get to 25 MPG.

    DrFill
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    If the guy who did the review has a negative bias like that then the review can be thrown in the garbage.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I would think if the car exudes the kind of performance and luxury that Lexus intends, that any bias would be overcome by ecstasy.
  • hendjazhendjaz Posts: 155
    "Out of curiousity what kind of mileage were you able to get from the GS450h?"

    As I recall in my prior 450h in mostly city/suburban driving I got about 22-24 mpg which I thought was very good given the significant gain in performance from the hybrid. Driving the same routes in a prior Acura RL I got more like 16 mpg and in current LS 460L get about 17 mpg (this will increase as the engine gets more broken in) over the same routes. I personally was very satisfied with the performance/mpg boost and balance in the 450h but the Edmunds report raises concerns about whether that same boost/balance will be achieved in the 600h.

    We'll have to wait until some tests come out on real production 600h cars to see if there is a more significant performance/mileage difference between the 460L and the 600h as this early review indicates not.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    is quite a performer, with 0-60 in 5.7, so a 5.5 in the 450h is not much to crow about. C&D has tested both.

    DrFill
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,860
    Doc,, I would think that a buyer of the Lexus super car, would primarily drive it in the city, and would appreciate the solid feel and flawless acceleration to a reasonable speed....Only on very rare occasions have I seen any high end car trying to race or anything....For a person who is not trying to impress anyone, there is a need for a quiet luxurious car in the city...I did hope the Lexus H would give higher milage, but it didn`t ..I does deliver on the other front though....Tony PS Today driving back from the mountains I was behind a Bentley---a little dated---and it was just all over the road and floating up and down terrably...A beautifly crafted car, but completely out of it`s element...A city car for sure..
  • Car&Driver in their "short take" on LS600hL got 0-60mph in 5.4 seconds, and more impressive,its midrange acceleration 50-70 in just 3.1 seconds and a quarter mile of 13.8 seconds.
    After a week hard driving, they got 20mpg, not bad.

    I predict the official specifics will be curb weight <5100lbs, 0-60 in 5.2s, combined FE 23mpg, midrange acceleration 50-70 in less than 3.5s.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    On their pre-production 460L, they got 6.2, the slowest test I've seen, so that is a large improvement.

    It would behoove Lexus to sell it's efficiency hard against 760iL and S600, which should be significant, to the tune of 30%.

    An S600 is about a second faster. With a larger trunk. But costs $30k more.

    Lexus has mentioned 0-60 in 4.9. Preliminary EPA is 22/20.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Cyclone4 -

    My friend, you do not need to be depressed. The way to cheer yourself up is to get an LS460L, fully loaded, and enjoy the money you will save. The truth of the LS600hL is out now.

    I have previously warned you and ljflx. I am glad that lj got the LS460L. He did the right thing, without a doubt.

    Eventually, everyone will will see that the LS600hL is as portrayed in the Edmunds article. Resale might be a factor, and the extra cost is obviously a total waste. Eventually, the car will be discontinued, only to be replaced by something that REALLY is a breakthrough, instead of the hype.

    To be honest with you, the LS600hL is even worse than I had anticipated in a number of areas.

    I thought the fuel economy would be a little better than it is likely to be rated. Only 1 city MPG better than the LS460 and only 2 city MPG better than the LS460L and 5 HWY MPG WORSE than the LS460 and LS460L. This means that the average fuel economy of the LS600hL hybrid sedan will be WORSE than its LS460 brothers.

    Add to that the fact that the acceleration of the LS600hL is one tenth of a second SLOWER than the LS460 and LS460L. It weighs in at an OBESE 887 lbs. more than the LS460L!

    The LS600hL V-8 delivers only 9 more HP than the LS460 and LS460L V-8!! With the added electric motors, the total HP is only 438, and with that extra 887 lbs. of FAT, the car is ultimately SLOWER and burns MORE gas, not less.

    Those 887 lbs of AWD and hybrid electronics FAT, come at a ridiculous price tag. The Edmunds test car priced in at $111,715.

    And there's more to getting less. It seems the trunk size of this LS600hL is 35% SMALLER than the trunk in its 460 brothers, at a mere 11.7 cubic feet.

    Exclusive you might think? Think again. Beyond the powertrain fat, there is essentially no option that can't be ordered on the LS460L.

    God bless Edmunds for telling the truth about this vehicle!

    I am once again very glad that ljflx got the LS460L instead of waiting in line to waste his money on an LS600hL. (Of course he could have gotten the Mercedes S600, but that's another discussion. ;) )

    Seriously, Cyclone4... do the smart thing here. I can't imagine ANYONE here or anywhere else that wouldn't understand the smart reasoning to get a fully loaded LS460L. Afterall, if you truly love this new LS, that's the smartest way to get it. It's now even more obvious than before... and frankly, I already thought it was darned obvious. Now it's common knowledge!

    Good luck!

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    in every case I have been able to exceed the EPA mileage estimates on a regular basis

    ANYONE can do that... but who would want to? Gosh, it's sure no fun when you can't put the pedal to the metal anymore.

    I've squeezed ridiculous fuel economy out of every car I've ever owned, just to see what was possible... but I would NEVER actually spend the majority of my time driving like I am pinching every penny of gas like some sort of scrooge who can't get out of his own way! God help us from THAT. Heck, you can squeeze high MPGs from an LS460L just as easily... in fact, EASIER on the highway.

    Any normal driver isn't going to get any significantly measureable advantage in terms of fuel economy from that LS600hL in comparison to an LS460L. The LS460L, fully loaded, is the car to get.

    The money saved will put gas in the LS460L for the life of the car! And you can still drive it with your foot hard on the gas once in a while, and actually enjoy some spirited driving! (instead of driving like a penny-pinching grandma) ;)

    TagMan
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Yes, I am very disappointed about the gas mileage factor. Obviously, I can afford the extra cost of fuel, but as I stated before, what is the purpose of getting a hybrid if it does not give you both real good gas mileage and performance? I think the performance will probably turn out to be just fine once they test a production model.

    BTW, the major reason, I have not ordered the LS460L to this point is because, I really want AWD for winter driving. However, I have heard some state, that the LS460L has been doing great in snow and ice with all season tires. The major reasons they give for this improvement is due to the better breaks and stability control with the LS460L as opposed to the LS430.

    I am about to pull the trigger and cancel my order for the LS600HL. I am just astounded how my mood has changed after the Edmunds review and the EPA gas estimate. I have gone from pure ecstasy to depression as I previously posted. However, I am now putting it behind me. What I will probably do is now wait for the 2008 LS460 and hope for AWD. But even if it does not I imagine there will be a few minor changes/improvements over the 2007 model year.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 8,189
    Cyclone4, I also applaud your decision. Hybrids have never made sense to me in any form. This one appears to be some sort of statement that Lexus is making...but at the expense of those buying the car. They are smart to only be building 2,000 of these things.

    Wait for 2008. All wheel drive probably...diesel maybe. But diesel would be a real stretch by 2008.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • hendjazhendjaz Posts: 155
    "It seems the trunk size of this LS600hL is 35% SMALLER than the trunk in its 460 brothers, at a mere 11.7 cubic feet."

    This is an incorrect statement. The trunk of a similarly equipped LS 460 is 12 cubic feet so the trunk of the 600h is only .3 cubic feet smaller. Not enough difference to even blink at. Remember, the Edmunds review is of a preproduction vehicle and it didn't even give consideration to the differnce in mileage data between 07 and 08 models since the rating system changes for all 08 models. As with the Car/Driver mag early review of a preproduction 460, there are some credibility issues in this first review of the 600h. Better to pass judgment when more information and reviews of the production vehicles become available.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    The best way to get over the depression is go pick up the LS460L in the color you like with the options you like. I am sure you will love the car. In a couple years if Lexus continues to build a luxury hybrid you will be able to get one just as you like it without the compromises you were being offered. By then they will be using batteries that do not weigh as much and give the car the performance they are not able to get with the current configuration. One more unfavorable review and they may not release the LS600h at all.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    The trunk size on the LS460L is dependent on options. If you want all the amenities inside you will lose a lot of trunk space. Without the executive package the trunk is 18 Cu feet. about right for a luxury car.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You are a very smart fellow, and I am honestly glad for you that you are seeing this for what it truly is. I suspect you could afford to do anything you really want here, so I still recommend that you go get a fully loaded LS460L in your favorite color. If you really believe that AWD is something you prefer to have, and that Lexus will offer it next year, then I suppose your patience could possibly be rewarded, by there is no guarantee at this point in time. Either way, you have time on your side.

    Your rational thinking has gained you much credibility here in these forums as far as I am concerned.

    :)

    TagMan
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    BTW, the official specs for the LS600HL are scheduled for release to the public today. Has anyone seen them yet?
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Len,

    Are you now more certain that you made the right choice by ordering an LS460L with the options you want? The reason I ask is because last week you were wavering that perhaps you should have ordered the LS600HL. You were actually thinking of cancelling your order and try for the LS600HL.
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