Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Do you currently own a 2019 or newer RAM pickup? A reporter would like to speak with you. Please reach out to [email protected] by 1/27 for more info.

Lexus LS 600h/600h L

12346

Comments

  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    Based on my experience with the GS450h I would expect to get 23-25 mpg
    after breakin with the LS600hL. The powerplants may have different ICE's and perhaps electric motors but the 2-stage reduction is the same giving better cruising mpg's. There have been too many posts by unknowledgable people who have no understanding of hybrids and base their posts on their prejudices and what journalists write. Just an observation, not a complaint. After all, for those of us who relish buying an LS600hL, reducing the number of buyers helps with availabilty and price.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    Thanks for the post larsb. Lexus is making a lot of headway in Europe and the opening of the new Lexus stores that I see there which detach Lexus from Toyota will help a lot. The high cost of fuel in Europe makes fuel efficiency more important there.
  • Should also point out the awesome braking performance of the LS600hL, 70-0 171ft, to those anti-Lexus guys, who usually cited C&D as their ultimate source to discredit Lexus. :)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Based on my experience with the GS450h I would expect to get 23-25 mpg
    after breakin with the LS600hL. The powerplants may have different ICE's and perhaps electric motors but the 2-stage reduction is the same giving better cruising mpg's. There have been too many posts by unknowledgable people who have no understanding of hybrids and base their posts on their prejudices and what journalists write


    How's that? It seems your description omits a very important detail... namely that the GS is not AWD and the LS is. The LS600hL carries an EPA rating of 20/22. Given the AWD, the mpg potential is altered considerably, as you should know. But like you posted, "there have been too many posts by unknowledgable people who have no understanding of hybrids..." I assume you wouldn't be talking about yourself, but you act like you know what the rest of the posters do or don't know, yet your post omitted the AWD component in the LS hybrid, comparing it to your GS experience which is entirely different and has no AWD. Looks like you kind of put your foot in your mouth.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Lexus is making a lot of headway in Europe

    In that case, here's some European feedback that you will appreciate.

    link title

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Yes, lj, the C&D review is different from the Edmunds review. Obviously, more reviews are needed to find a concensus, but to be fair, the C&D review is a little more encouraging. I wouldn't call it spectacular, but without any doubt, it is definately better. But, I do find it interesting that many folks were trashing C&D earlier for their Lexus criticism, but now C&D are the good guys again with a their encouraging review of the LS600hL. Seems a bit "selective"... accepting the positive remarks, but not the negative. In any event, for those that would like to read this encouraging review from C&D, I will provide the link here:

    Car & Driver - 2008 Lexus LS600hL - Short Take Road Tests

    :)

    TagMan
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    I took AWD into cosideration but also some improvement in the pwerplant given the superb Toyota/Lexus engineering. I am currently at 28mpg average over the life of my GS450h. I would expect to do at least 23 mpg average in an LS460hL. Also my prior car was the awd RX400h as were three preceding cars; I'm not ignorant of the effect of awd.
    Keep up the good work TagMan of keeping the number of clients for the LS600hL low. It will make it easier to negotiate with my Lexus dealer.
    It's regrettable TagMan that you're so language challenged that you have to resort to clich\'es like "foot in mouth"
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Well, idele, it wasn't me that got personal until you made the remark in that post inferring that others had no knowledge of hybrids. It was pretty obvious. My only contention with the LS600hL has been how it compared with the LS460L. I've posted respectful comments abut these cars previous to that for quite some time. It's the current similarity in performance between the two models that has been my issue with them. Nothing disprespectful to anyone. I never disrespected anyone's knowledge like you did. That's what you did, idele, so own it. I have a very boroad knowledge of hybrids and alternative fuels and powertrains, as well. But, what this is really about is the same old story.... Anybody who gets too critical of a Lexus, and wham... the personal insults start to show up.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Given the fact that I let my subscription expire due to their shotty work of late, I defend my "selectivity" of C&D reviews, as their standards of excellence have noticably slipped into, at best, inconsistency. :sick:

    Their comparison between the G35 and 328i was top-notch, a blast from their past. But many of their recent comparisons have too many glaring deficiencies to mention. It used to be the best, but now, just one of many opinions.

    Let's rebuild from "Short Take" on up, shall we? I trust they can rate one vehicle at a time with due process and justification. ;)

    I believe this link may work better:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/12881/2008-lexus-ls600hl.html

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thanks for the link, Tag

    You are most welcome, Doc. I wanted to make sure that the comments Len was referring to were there for all to see. It's a pretty good review overall, and in fairness, I thought I might be the one to post it, don't you think? ;)

    I have fixed the link to the "short-take" that I intended it to be all along. Thanks for the heads-up. :)

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    How, in at least C&D tests, the RX400h, after 40,000 miles, became significantly faster, improving 0-60 times by almost a full second, making it Porsche-fast!

    Maybe the LS could be S600 fast, after a lengthy break-in period? Food for thought. :blush:

    I will research other long-term hybrid tests, and see if this is an anomoly. ;)

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Well, the anomoly is two-fold.

    One, all cars do in-fact "break-in". Thankfully, my 911 Carrera S is now starting to feel even quicker and suddenly the gas mileage is getting better, too. but, it's typical from my experience.

    Two, every review and test is a unique situation. While two separate, but similar tests of the same car should yield similar results, and they usually do... but, sometimes they are VERY different, and then I have to question one or both of those reviews.

    That is why you usually see me post that there needs to be a consensus when there are huge differences in test results. As an example, when everyone was up in arms about the LS460's "grabby" brakes and poor stopping distances, I posted that there would have to be a consensus of numerous reviews before anyone could really know the measureable distance results. Now, as far as the "feel" of the brakes goes, well... ANYONE can test that himself, and make up his own mind.

    Anyway, let me know how your "research" goes. :)

    TagMan
  • hendjazhendjaz Posts: 155
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0706_2008_lexus_ls_600h_l/index.h- - tml

    Looks like another very positive review of the 600h, this time from Motor Trend. Awesome pictures too. Looks like taken near Palm Springs maybe.
  • Yet, another review makes the IL full-test read like garbage.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Like a hit, here it go:

    "Two out of three ain't bad..." :shades:

    These are pre-production cars, doh.

    Darned if I didn't write these reviews last week! And I didn't even drive the thing! Maybe I'm flamboyant? :confuse:

    DrFill
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    Here's what I wrote:
    "There have been too many posts by unknowledgable people who have no understanding of hybrids and base their posts on their prejudices and what journalists write. Just an observation, not a complaint. After all, for those of us who relish buying an LS600hL, reducing the number of buyers helps with availabilty and price."
    It was clearly a general remark. There have been negative Lexus posts by those who own or lease Lexuses now or did so in the past. I find those posts are informative and useful because they are based on actual extensive driving experience. Wasn't there a slogan years ago "Ask the man that owns one"? Let's update that to "Ask the man or women that owns one"
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It was a personal poke at other posters, no matter how you cut it. But I gather from your follow-up that your intentions were more honorable than the net result? Given so, all is forgiven and I apologize for calling you on it. :)

    TagMan
  • Considering all the magazine reviews got 19~20mpg during their short tests, 23-25mpg for ordinary owners would be more reasonable.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I question that, only because I pay more attention to the EPA ratings, and adjust from there. Granted the '08 system might be closer to reality, but the '07 system usually caused folks to adjust downward slightly. Assuming the '08 is more typical, then it makes sense that the average person who owns this kind of car will put their foot into it once in a while to squeeze some performance out of it, and also will achieve around the rated EPA, which is 20/22, for an average of 21.

    But, of course, we'll know more after owners start reporting.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    They have the 2007-2008 comparisons, and owner surveys.

    I notice the Camry Hybrid, for example, went down from a 39 MPG cobimed to 34, but the owners averaged 36-37MPG. :surprise:

    One thing about Hybrids. They are kind of like a video game, as some drivers will adjust and try to drive up their economy, and figure out where the car is most efficient, and take advantage of those situations.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    One thing about Hybrids. They are kind of like a video game, as some drivers will adjust and try to drive up their economy, and figure out where the car is most efficient, and take advantage of those situations.

    Yes, Doc... I think that is very true for some!! And I must admit that I HATE getting stuck behind those particular penny-pinching, fuel-economy-challenged, slow-pokes on the road. :mad:

    My experience so far has been that most hybrid drivers are pretty cool and they just go for it, but then there are those... "OTHERS". ;)

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I haven't run into ANY hybrid drivers clogging up traffic. I have seen them blitzing the left lane, flying so fast, I can't keep up!

    The "Slow-pokes" are ALWAYS Corolla drivers.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I haven't run into ANY hybrid drivers clogging up traffic. I have seen them blitzing the left lane, flying so fast, I can't keep up!

    The "Slow-pokes" are ALWAYS Corolla drivers.


    Well, Doc, here in California, there are a lot of Prius and Civic hybrids... we could very possibly be the "greenie" capitol, not sure. But when I say there are a lot of them, man, I mean a LOT of them.

    There isn't a day goes by that there isn't one of those Prius vehicles going to slow. But, you are right about many of the others... they go flying by! So the problem isn't the car... it's that video-game hybrid driver you were talking about, challenged to squeeze every nickel out of his tank of gas, and trying to see how far he can go between fillups... it's a new "sport" of some sort, isn't it?

    To be fair. there are plenty of other cars that do the same things, and the ones that jam up traffic should be removed. One self-centered individual can ruin a drive for many other folks.

    Now, with all that V-12 power the LS600hL is supposed to have, I'm expecting them to be flying by, but you and I both know that the same kind of video game hybrid driver could be at the wheel, and God-forbid, enter into the "sport" of squeezing 23+ mpg out of that thing instead of the rated 20/22. ;)

    Fortunately, there will be very few of them, so the impact will be minimal... and as I understand one of our posters... there should be a chauffeur in the driver's seat anyway! ;)

    TagMan
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    It is true that you have to learn how to drive a hybrid and having a kW meter instead of a tachmeter is of enormous help since one horsepower is a constant multiple of kW (1 hp = 1.34 kW). The penalty of accelerating up grades is substantial. That's true of all cars but it's right in front ofyou in the Lexus hybrids. I had an RX400h for 11 months before trading to the GS450h last year. The RX400h was better at stop and go mileage but distinctly inferior at speeds above 60, so my lifetime average is better with the GS450h.In fact I now choose a longer route to and from my home to utilize the interstate. I live in a moderate climate. There is a temperature sensitivity with hybrids. My tank average (average mileage reset automatically upon filling the tank) runs around 26.7mpg during cold weather. It's running at 29.1mpg tank average right now. I like my car cool so during the summer with the air conditioning going full blast I'll probably get down to 28.1mpg tank average.
    The LS600h will have a better battery pack. Toyota has its own chip plant (the only one among the major manufacturers) and I expect the absolutely vital electronic control system to be expertly adapted to the LX600h.
    In brief that's the background for my mpg estimate for my driving a LS600h. Insofar as car magazine articles, I don't trust most automotive journalists. Journalists are generally chosen for their ability to write; think of all those catchy phrases. Moreover their stories are usually centered about a single theme. In the case of hybrids, fuel efficiency seems to be the one usually chosen. Well one can take any car and drive it in such a way as to worsen any set fuel efficiency figure. It makes a better headline to do so.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    28-29MPG is impressive for a 330+HP car, that is as fast as the LS600h! ;)

    This also shows that the EPA numbers may be pessimistic when it comes to Hybrids, because the Hybrid "tells" the owner how to improve economy. This is a huge factor, adjusting driver habits.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    This also shows that the EPA numbers may be pessimistic when it comes to Hybrids,

    Not the case. If you go to the EPA website, and use the Prius as an example, you will see that the '07 rating sytem provided a 55 average MPG rating. The '08 will reduce that number to a 46 mpg average. That's only a reduction of 17%, far less than the 30% that I had been reading about in some of the articles, which is good news for the hybrids.

    To give you the correct answer, though, it seems that the reported real-life average mpg for Prius owners themselves is 45.1. That's VERY close to the '08 new rating, which is very interesting.

    So, it seems that the EPA numbers were not pessimistic with the '07 rating system, and are not pessimistic as we move towards the '08 rating system... it was the other way around. The EPA was overly optimistic and favorable.

    Now, that AVERAGE of 45.1 consists of a few wreckless drivers that only got 34, and a few that squeezed out 61. Those drivers demonstrate the potentials at both ends of the spectrum. The average is what matters mosts, and it is essentially gives the '08 ratings increased credibility.

    The RX400h is another example. It had an '07 rating of 29 average mpg. The'08 rating takes it down to 26... only an 11% drop. The average in real life is 24.2. Once again pretty close to the '08 estimate, which is still a little optimistc, not pessimistic.

    TagMan
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    I should have pointed out that a tachometer doesn't make sense for hybrids. For a conventional ICE powerplant the rpm is related to power output although looking at the graph it's not strictly linear. Since the Toyota/Lexus hybrid powerplant utilizes the ICE, electric motor and batteries, the rpm of the ICE is largely irrelevant. The superb midrange acceleration of my GS450h stems from the electric motor kicking in at full torque instantaneously. One can think of it as a kind of electric supercharger. It has no lag in contrast to mechanical superchargers or turbochargers. It makes quickly zooming in traffic a joy because of the instantaneous and reliable [it's a Lexus] response. I consider it an important safety factor, not just fun.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Obviously the '07 system is outdated and close to useless.

    Most Camry Hybrid owners in their forum are in the high 30's.

    I think every Hybrid will make small advancements, and become slightly better, until the '09 Prius gets here. ;)

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    One can think of it as a kind of electric supercharger. It has no lag in contrast to mechanical superchargers or turbochargers.

    That has usually been the problem with turbos... the lag. Well, BMW claims to have no lag with their latest twin turbos. Now that electric of yours... it's instantaneous, provided the mechanicals allow its power to be utilized immediately, and from the sound of it, it does so very well.

    TagMan
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    I had a 2003 Audi Allroad 2.7T. A single turbo. The lag was certainly there. BMW has fine engineering and I would imagine they have reduced lag but I don't believe it could match the Toyota/Lexus series-parallel
    hybrid. At the cited website below you can find a press release for the BMW Alpina B3 Bi-Turbo Showcar and the graph of kW output and torque versus rpm
    http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/en/index.php
    then press the logo for the car.
    This is an interesting car but the BMW Alpinas are generally not sold in the USA. One would have to import one privately. It can be done but it's very costly.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I just got back this afternoon from a brief visit in New York. I got to see my Red Sox beat the Evil Empire ;) Friday night. I know this is really early in the season, but I think the Yankees are in trouble (what a shame ;)). Their pitching staff is about as bad as there is in the the Major Leagues. While in New York, I also had some great food.

    As far as the LS600HL is concerned, trust me when I tell you that it has been agonizing. I have actually gone back and forth several times this past week on what to do. I have carefully read all of your thoughtful responses (pro and con). My conclusion is that I will go ahead and inform the dealer this week, to officially cancel my order. When it comes down to it, I just cannot fathom the fact that it will get fuel mileage only in the low 20s. I was under the impression for the past year that it would average at least up in the upper 20s. A secondary reason is the relatively small trunk (not a deal killer). I realize that 20/22 is decent for such a heavy vehicle, but this is just me. If I were to own this car and drive with friends, I would have a difficult time boasting about the gas mileage even though it is a HYBRID. I really think that Lexus should have waited another year or two to release the LS600HL so that they could have made further refinements in hybrid technology to really have impressive gas mileage on the LS600HL.

    As it stands now, I will follow on ljflx's footsteps and purchase a 2008 LS460L. I hope the good things I hear about its handling in snow and ice (without snow tires) this past winter are true. If not, there are always snow tires.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Good job! :)

    New York has great food, and the Yankees have bad pitching! Red Sox fans, or Mets fans, like me, are lovin' Springtime in the Big Apple! ;)

    Regarding the 600h, the 460L is definitely a better value, but if you were expecting over 25+ MPG, you give even Lexus too much credit. The problem is over-the-top expectations. Lexus told us what to expect.

    430+ HP and 20+ MPG is great. I haven't seen that done before.

    As long as you keep it in the family, Lexus' job is done. Enjoy your LS, whichever one it might be. :blush:

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Welcome back.

    The Doc's reply was upbeat and sincere. And yes, it is true that you will still have a brand new latest generation Lexus LS that you can enjoy and admire. And for a Lexus fan, I'd say that ain't half bad!!! :)

    Now, the long wait begins... tick, tock, tick, tock... ;)

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I'm an "upbeat and sincere" kinda guy! :D

    DrFill
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Charlie

    Based on my experience give yourself 100 or so days on a custom order and remember to pass up the rear seat electronics if you want that 18' trunk. BTW - you still get rear seat heat/cool seats. The rear seat upgrade is mainly for the cool box and the power rear seats and rear seat entertainment. They should have worked in the cool box without that package. The 2001 and 2004 ultras had the cool box with no trunk space sacrifice.

    Despite what Doc says I too remember once reading about a 29mpg spec on the LS600HL. It may however have been a UK thing and perhaps they were talking different metrics. My expectation is the car will get 22-24mpg in the real world and if it does that it would be a heck of an
    accomplishment. The real key words here were V12 power with V6 economy and given I see an 18-19mpg return with my G one could easily argue they do indeed surpass V6 performance cars with the 600.

    BTW - nothing wrong with giving an S550 serious consideration. I did and even had one in my possession for the better part of a day. It's a great car whose looks I've become quite fond of. I still worry about MB reliability though and IMO I found the LWB LS460 and the S about equal with each offering something sightly better or slightly worse (the worse is relative to greatness though) than the other. You can't go wrong with either car unless reliability pops up as a future issue.
  • dc661dc661 Posts: 71
    LOS ANGELES -- Customers waiting for Lexus' $100,000-plus flagship hybrid sedan will have to wait a little longer.

    The LS 600h L was supposed to launch in June but has been delayed at least one month, a Toyota source said. That pushes the U.S. arrival of the cars into late July or early August. The source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Toyota officials in Japan did not give a reason for the delay.

    Lexus spokesman Greg Thome said the company was merely "firming up the scheduling."

    "It was to be late spring or early summer," Thome said. "Now they've said that it's going to be summer."

    Mike Michels, a Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. spokesman, said the June time frame given to journalists in March was an estimate.

    "This is the most sophisticated vehicle the company has ever produced and, of course, very limited volume," Michels said. "For this reason, our routine final production quality checks are even more rigorous than usual."

    Lexus expects to sell about 2,000 units of the LS 600h L annually. Already, 1,650 orders are in hand.

    Lexus proceeded with a limited-edition LS 600h L sale in Neiman Marcus InCircle catalogs beginning April 20. A Neiman Marcus representative said those cars would be delivered to customers by late July or early August.

    Although Lexus dealers will sell the LS 600h L with a base price of $104,750 including shipping, the Neiman Marcus edition has a $121,000 price.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Lexus expects to sell about 2,000 units of the LS 600h L annually. Already, 1,650 orders are in hand.

    Some of them will go the wayside, as with any new car's early orders. Perhaps the demand won't be as large as expected.

    "This is the most sophisticated vehicle the company has ever produced and, of course, very limited volume," Michels said. "For this reason, our routine final production quality checks are even more rigorous than usual."

    Could be a glitch? ... being kept confidential, but needs to be ironed out.

    TagMan
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Len,

    I think that the main reason for the reduced trunk space with the LS460L is due to the reclining back seats but I could be wrong here.

    When the LS600HL was first announced about 2 years ago, I distinctly remember everybody talking about gas mileage somewhere in the 30s in the city and upper 20s on the highway. One reason for this talk was due to the fact that the RX400H was rated at 31/27. The thinking was that the technology would be even more advanced by the time the LS600HL would be ready for production and that if anything it would get better mileage than the RX400H. I think this is the major reason for my disappointment.

    I have actually given the S550 some thought. However, I don't want to deal with the reliability issue. I friend of mine got one about 4 months ago, and it has already had an unscheduled service call. Also, I do not hear good things about that "all everything control" (whatever you call it).
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Command system - yes a total turnoff. My wife hated it and I couldn't find one reason why it was needed on the car. I know two folks that have the S550. One is problem free the other has had electronic issues.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Command system - yes a total turnoff. My wife hated it and I couldn't find one reason why it was needed on the car. I know two folks that have the S550. One is problem free the other has had electronic issues.

    That's interesting - When I tested the S550, I could realize the initial intimidation factor of the COMAND system, however, after spending a little more time with it, it revealed itself to have a fairly logical and user-friendly G.U.I. (unlike i-Drive's reputation). I believe that it just takes a reasonable learning curve to get over the initial hump, which seems fairly typical nowadays with most electronic devices... such as cell phones, PDAs, and the like.

    I have not heard of reliability issues with the latest S-Class at this time. I am, of course, disappointed to learn that you have heard of some. But, frankly, it comes as no shock.

    The ergonomics of the LS are quite logical from my point of view, but they are more traditional, where there are the expected buttons and knobs and most buttons/knobs have their usual place. Instead of a central control system like the S550, the general interaction of the driver in the LS is to reach for the appropriate knob or switch, which certainly works fine, but isn't as modern, IMO. Some controls have centralized to the navigation screen, however, which is good, IMO.

    With regards to reliability... I wonder if the typical S550 would really spend enough time in the shop to actually dent the owner experience, but if only the best in reliability will do... well... you know who is tops in THAT department! And credit goes where credit is deserved.

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    1 of 2 is not much of a sample. The problem around my area is the 2000 S class and the 2003 update and there relibility woes turned off folks that had S-class cars previously and Lexus was in the right spot at the right time with the LWB offering. One guy I know well said if Lexus had stayed SWB he'd have stayed MB or tried Audi. Like me he sees little diff in the S550 and LS460L and like me he's looking high lux in this class and the sportier offerings from Audi and BMW don't interest him. Not in this class at least though the A8 styling and interior was something that attracted him there. The 5 series or lower is a different story with that guy as there he's shopping sport though his other car is the Acura MDX at the moment.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I think that the main reason for the reduced trunk space with the LS460L is due to the reclining back seats but I could be wrong here.

    Charlie - I think you are right about this. The bottom line is adding that gizmo might be good for the limo crowd but it doesn't serve the family crowd well.

    I was at the dealership today to return my 2004 car. They finally had an LS460L on display and the rear seat room is certainly very impressive on the car. I did notice that someone who had posted that the memory seating is missing from the passenger side is dead on. The specs at Lexus.com say it's there but the car only has it on the driver side. I'll ask my sales guy about that tomorrow. It's hardly an important feature for me but it should be there. The car on display was white and it looked very nice in that color. But flint mica and black are the colors I love the car in.

    I did ask about the smaller trunk because of the rear seat stuff and to my surprise no one cares about the trunk being smaller. That was according to my salesman and the dealership GM and there's still a shortage of LWB cars here. So I started talking to a guy at my sales guy's desk (while he was away with my papers on the the 2004 return). He had just taken an L with the rear seat options and he couldn't care less about the smaller trunk! Maybe it's us that are crazy??
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Maybe the criteria for most buyers is room for golf clubs. It seems like a vehicle that would look best at a country club. I know I would never drive and park it at the mall.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    We could very well be "nut cases" concerning the trunk. But I want to be a happy "nut case" :) .
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Actually, I see concern for room for some number of golf bags across the spectrum of vehicles. Personally, I don't get it. :P
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    And for that kind of money you absolutely should be a happy "nut case"! ;)
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Charlie,

    Other than Edmunds I am reading excellent reviews of the LS600HL at every turn and the car seems to be a techical marvel and techno tour de force at the same time. I'm convinced the Edmunds deal is a review by a person with bias against hybrids. So I'm not sure I'd take it seriously anymore.

    My car came into port today and will be ready between May 10-15. It takes a few days longer now for the cars to clear because of post 9/11 security. Honestly - that hybrid has me very interested and if my car had been delayed a month or two longer I might have called Ray Catena directly to see if he could swap me into it. I'm more and more impressed with the car and am long past the Edmunds review at this point.

    BTW - no question that Toyota plays games with deferring shipments. I asked the dealer when the car transfers to him and it is not until it clears customs. I think they have deferred shipments so that they can count the sale in the next month for awhile now because their earnings are so strong. Bottom line is that though my car shipped in April it will count as a May sale. I am sure they could have sped up the process if they wanted April revenue. If I was TM's CFO I'd be deferring revenue in every pocket I could find given their earnings reports.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Keeps Lexus humble. ;)

    The Passionate Pursuit continues.....

    DrFill
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Yes indeed, the Edmunds review by that dude was very much biased against the LS600HL. There is NO question this is a technological marvel. However, I have made up my mind to forego it at this time. Call me stubborn, stupid or whatever, but the fact that it is a hybrid and it only gets gas mileage in the low 20s, forces me to cancel. As I stated on an earlier post, I would be a little embarrassed to tell my friends that I am driving a hybrid, but that it only gets somewhere between 20 and 24 mpg. I'm thinking that it could be as high as 24 but it's hard to say for sure. This type of mileage for a hybrid just eats away at me. IMO, they should have waited another year or two to release this car until they made more advancements in hybrid technology.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 8,189
    Based on the available info I would have done the same thing that you did and gone for just the "L".

    I've got a feeling that once an actual production LH is tested it will look a little better...but you would still have to drive a lot of miles to recoup your investment.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

This discussion has been closed.