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2009 Mazda6



  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    What on Earth are you looking for in an affordable mid-sized car? Do you think Mazda was going to pull some revolutionary technology out of it's rear end to make the Mazda6 handle leaps and bounds over the Altima, or any other mid-sizer for that matter? I think your expectations are a bit high....

    The 1st gen Mazda6 was only a little better then what is on the market now. Lets not make the 1st gen Mazda6 our to be a race car, because it surely was NOT. I own one, and it does handle nice, but thats partly due to the fact it's tiny. It's not much bigger then a Mazda3.

    Leading up to the release of the 09 Mazda6, there had been several spy pics that show the Mazda6 undergoing testing with a Nissan Altima. I'm pretty sure that Mazda, in their mind, made sure it out performed the current performance champ in the segment. They have spent more time on the new Mazda6 then any other car they have ever launched.

    If the Mazda6 does not do it for you, then obviously neither does any other affordable mid-sizer. Perhaps you should spend $50K on a BMW 5-Series, or perhaps $40K on a VW Passat V6 4-motion because obviously a $22K Mazda6 does not fit the bill. If you don't like the 09 Mazda6, that's fine. Let's just keep things in perspective and be realistic.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    a sad sad testimony to Mazda's unfortunate association with the blue oval. Always too little too late - need a 170hp reasonably smooth 4 banger? Got it, 5 years late, how about a high hp V6? also about 5 years after everybody else. And Mazda used to lead the pack when it came down to things like innovation and imagination - not so anymore just a 'Johnny-come-lately' - and a real shame IMO
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I think you are a little over the top there....It was only 2007/2008 when Honda and Toyota broke the 250hp mark on their mid sizers....or better yet, Honda the only player in the party to not offer a 6-speed auto or 6-speed manual with the Accord they need to be reminded what year it is??
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    True. All buying decisions are based on opinion. Mazda's focus is seemingly no longer zoom-zoom. They should stop using that slogan if it's no longer representative of the company's goals.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the 03 Accord was over 240hp and about the same as the 02 240hp Altima if I recall correctly. That's actually 6 model years ago. The Camry, true, did stick with their 3 liter engine and did 'suffer' for it. The 2 GR made it into production in 05 but not into the Camry until 07. The Ford sourced Duratech, while it does finally produce competitive HP, still lacks the sophistication and refinement of even Honda's now aging SOHC V6, not to mention those class leaders the Toyota 2GR and the Nissan VQ. And the 4s which make up most of what is sold in this class - you know - that same class where the Honda 4 banger defines what that kind of engine should be? Ford/Mazda also years behind - don't believe this to be 'over the top' at all - only history, and more a consequence of limited resources I'm afraid.
    Until recently had always been a fan of Mazda - and owned several dating all the way back into things like RX2s and Cosmos. Regret to this day the demise of what I thought to be a refreshing and somewhat innovative approach to the sedan - the Millenia. Think that the beginning of Mazda's ultimate demise came when the company hitched too close to the Ford wagon back in the late 80s with the Probe/MX6. Mazda would be better served doing what it did so well 20 and 30 years ago - leading NOT following.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Well, zoom-zoom is about 10% go and about 90% show in the first place. It's a marketing theme not a mantra to live by. It is also somewhat in the eyes of the beholder.
    Consider the 1st gen Mazda6. It was somewhat underpowered and undersized compared to the rest of the midsized field. What it had going for it was some decent looks, sharp handling(respective to it's direct competitors) and a Zoom-Zoom marketing campaign.

    Now comes the 2nd gen Mazda6. They fixed the power issue, fixed the size issue(some people are having size issues but that is a personal problem---no pun intended). It has better looks(subjective but I haven't heard anyone say different) and still still handles better than the rest of the midsized field (but not by as much) and still has a Zoom-Zoom marketing campaign.

    I think everyone's expectations, mine included, were pretty high for this car and any flaw is magnified. There is no perfect midsizer out there because we all consider one thing or another a little more important to us. Could it have been a lot better than it is? Of course, they all could be a lot better, but at what price?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    All this negativity, this car must be a real POS! I'm going to have to check it out myself now, as I can't believe it's anywhere near this bad.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Go see it for yourself. It's really a great car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I will - my curiosity is now piqued beyond belief.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Now there's a novel idea! Thank you!
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    A 3 series BMW most often does not beat any other Mazda / Nissan / Honda if you compare the numbers.
    But it is still the car people desire because it handles and feels so good.
    Look beyond the numbers. Not the numbers.
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    And the 4s which make up most of what is sold in this class - you know - that same class where the Honda 4 banger defines what that kind of engine should be? Ford/Mazda also years behind - don't believe this to be 'over the top' at all - only history, and more a consequence of limited resources I'm afraid.

    well, according to Wards' the Mazda 4 cylinder DISI is class leading, not following.

    btw, maybe your millenia engine might also come back

    Some reports from Japan suggest Mazda is planning a resurrection of its Miller-cycle design for smaller-displacement engines.

    The Miller-cycle — which delays closing of the intake valves to reduce the engine pumping losses that hinder efficiency — was last used by Mazda in North America in a supercharged 2.3L DOHC V-6 for the low-volume Millenia S sedan, which was discontinued in 2002.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Shouldn't a car that cost at least $10-$20,000 more handle better and feel better? Ya think rear wheel drive, near 50-50 weight ratio, build quality and Euro mystique might have something to do why they like BMW.

    Funny question. Why does it seem that BMW always comes up when talking about the 6? They really are marketed to different market segments and are very different cars besides one being German and one being Japanese. I guess just the fact that it does come up so often means Mazda is doing something right. I don't ever see BMW compared to Sonatas, Camrys, Fusions, Accords, etc.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Depends on how you shop. If you're a segment-only, new only shopper, then no, the options outside of the Mazda6, Camry, Altima and Accord rarely come up.

    I tend to shop based on size, performance, usability and price. Segment is meaningless to me; as is new or used. For 20-30k I see a variety that many 6 buyers will never entertain. If one is willing to blow 28k on a Mazda6, maybe they're willing to spend the same amount on a 2006 Lexus GS00 - get Lexus quality, etc. A 2007 Infiniti G35 has a sensational Infiniti warranty and just as much room as the Mazda but the benefit of far better performance and build quality.

    Maybe it's not segment-fair but it is wallet fair to compare a 2007 G35 to a 2009 Mazda6 V6. You may find that for the trade-off of new v. used you get a better car for less money.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    You're right but that thought process could get infinitely confusing in discussion. How about a 2006 5 series for similar pricing and so on and so on. I have an Infiniti SUV and usually get a G35 as a loner during service. I actually don't like quite a bit about the G35 but I do like the way the steering wheel/dash move together when adjusting. That is way cool. Anyway I understand your point.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    You're right but that thought process could get infinitely confusing in discussion

    Yes it can. And does!
  • trobsontrobson Posts: 9
    Used up-market, less warranty, higher repair costs, higher insurance, higher TCO. Significant issues, ones that 'define' class as much as anything.

    Segment is not just about car dynamics.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
  • madpistolmadpistol Posts: 126
    Not to fan any flames, but don't forget that the Altima gets better fuel economy on both its 4-cyl and V6. I know that Mazda wants to have the sportiest car in the segment, but if it's at the expense of fuel economy, that really hurts the cars image to the masses.

    If you want to sell a car, make it sporty AND fuel efficient... what a novel concept. :P
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    I mentioned it earlier and I give Mazda no kudos for that.

    Actually, I'm only considering the I4 for myself and that mpg is fairly efficient. It's only one less mpg than most of the rest. The V6 on the other hand is pretty pathetic.

    Like I've said before....there is not one of these cars that is perfect for all of us. They all have their little faults or ommissions most of which may not be deal killers but are still annoying.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Used up-market, less warranty, higher repair costs, higher insurance, higher TCO. Significant issues, ones that 'define' class as much as anything.

    A 2007 Certified Infiniti G35 with 25k miles comes with a better warranty than a new Mazda6. :)

    Mazda warranty:
    Mazda warrants that new 2007 and 2008 Mazda cars and trucks will be free of defects with normal use and prescribed maintenance for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Ordinary maintenance items, adjustments, parts subject to normal wear and certain other items are excluded. This transferable "limited warranty" is included on all new Mazda vehicles sold and serviced in the United States.

    General Infiniti warranty
    # 4-year/60,000-mile Basic coverage
    # 5-year/50,000-mile Emission Control coverage
    # 6-year/70,000-mile Powertrain coverage
    # 7-year/unlimited-mileage Corrosion coverage

    Warranty Coverage: The Infiniti Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle Limited Warranty extends the basic coverage of the Infiniti new vehicle limited warranty (inclusive of powertrain coverage) to 72 months from the in-service date of the vehicle or 100,000 total miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first.

    Thus a 2 year old G35 comes with a 2 years 35k mile bumper to bumper and then another 2 years 40k miles with a $50 deductible.

    Also, the used car has seen its greatest depreciation already, while the new car is about to endure a harsh bath.

    Like I said, if you're a new-only, segment only buyer, then your choices are limited to Accord, Camry, Altima, Sonata, Mazda6. If you're looking for price and sedan form then 2-4 year old entry and lux sedans like the G, IS, ES, CTS, C, 3, GS, MKZ, TL, RL, Saab are available in the same range and sometimes with a better warranty. Judging by JD Power, all cars are built far better today than they were 10 years ago. But today ~35% of the cars on the road are over 11 years old. ( .html ).

    And yes, one can go nuts comparing all the options at that point.
  • qddaveqddave Posts: 164
    Funny, the last time I test drove a CX-9, the smoothness of the engine was one thing that really caught my eye....and ear. Great sounds and strong pull. I'd say the only thing lacking in sophistication in the 3.7L V6 is the fact that it doesn't have Honda's VCM. You know, the feature many people are complaining about. The one thing the EPA probably considered when "calculating" the "estimated" mileage for the Accord equating to the difference in "predicted" mileage.

    So I finally went to look at a 6 yesterday to see if the constant negative banter known as the Edmunds 2009 Mazda6 forum was for real or an unwarranted case of carpal-tunnel syndrome.

    Dealer had an i Sport and 2 s GTs. One thing I looked for immediately was the flimsy interior door handle mentioned a few pages back. It was there, and yes I would expect better from Mazda, if it were made in Japan. More on that later. Sitting in the car, no doubt its worlds ahead of the previous gen 6. The layout was very nice for a base model. I didn't really think to evaluate the so called "mouse fur" someone noted but I did notice how wide the seats were. I drive an 06 3 hatch and the seats were absolutely huge compared to mine. I also made a note to check out the "noxious" new car smell. Wow, was that ever a petty reason to not like the car. Smelled like any other new car I've sat in. The styling didn't wow me, but was a lot better than in the pictures. No test drive yet as the dealer was closing.

    Regarding the domestic comment, I noticed on the window sticker that the 5 spd and 6 spd transmissions are both sourced from Japan, along with the V6. The 4 cyl comes from Mexico. Coupled with the high fuel prices and shipping costs, I'm assuming that Mazda needed to cut costs in other areas to offset these freight costs. I'm almost positive that Honda and Toyota builds their engines and trannies in the US. That's the Japanese way. Obviously Mazda is not going to build an engine plant in the US to support one model so they're behind the 8 ball right off the get go. I'm not making excuses for them, but I believe this is one of the reasons why they need to cut costs in other areas. Unfortunately, it seems to be in the touchy-feely areas that took the hit.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Yes yes yes...the Altima gets an Earth shattering 1mpg highway and 2 mpg more the the 4 cyl Mazda6, and a whopping 1mpg highway and 2mpg city with the V6. Not to mention the numerous reports on the Altima board about sub par FE with both engines in real world situations. It's not like we are comparing the Altima Hybrid to the Mazda6 here...

    For me, the extra smiles per gallon out weigh the super slim miles per gallon.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    For me, the extra smiles per gallon out weigh the super slim miles per gallon.

    Just exactly what will you be smiling about?

    The superior resale value of the Mazda6?

    The superior handling of the Mazda6?

    The lower purchase cost of the Mazda6?

    The higher level of reliability demonstrated by Mazda?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The fact that I'm in a car that I actually like possibly? That should be the case for everyone. How about the way it looks? I would not be caught dead in a Camry or Accord. The Altima is a possibility, but just looks cheap. How about the high grade interior that seems to be forgotten about in this segment?

    Resale means nothing to me since I drive my cars past 100K and I don't care what car it is, they are all worthless past 100K, regardless what KBB and Edmunds say because they are wrong. Right now, if you go to the auctions, Mazda6's are going for $2,000-$3,000 over book value. I can't buy any for my store because they just cost too much. Who would have thought that?

    Let's just compare reliability, in this case to the Altima since that it what I was comparing it too to begin with. The Altima has had more then its fair share of problems. Just look at the Altima threads, they are littered with issue after issue.

    You know what ever I buy I do so because I like it. I don't care what any body says about it. If I wanted to join the norm and live a dull and boring life, I would buy a Camry/Accord work at a dead end job where I hate my boss and watch my wife cheat on me with my neighbor. Well, I'm not like that.

    As I said before, the only other car in this segment I would even consider is a Altima. I like the new Mazda6 more then the one I have had now which has 45,000 problem free miles on it. It's also bigger and in my opinion has more style and better fuel economy. For me, that's enough. All I ever talk about here is my opinion and I never push my opinions on anyone else. If you disagree, that's fine. For me, 1 or 2 mpg's will never sway my decision on what car to purchase. I will always go for what feels better to me, and what puts smiles on my face! How's that for an answer??
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Not a big deal on the whole scheme of life, but the Altima does use premium in the V6 which is usually about 5% more than regular. It's mpg is only about 3% better so I would say that the cost per mpg would be about the same or close enough for goverment work.
  • madpistolmadpistol Posts: 126
    The Altima V6 "recommends" premium. There are numerous people that have reported using regular 87 octane unleaded, and it works fine.

    As for the "numerous issues" that the car has in terms of reliability, may I kindly ask what you're talking about? I've seen the few issues that people have experienced, but about 95% of consumers experience no issues if they are properly maintained.

    I haven't had a chance to go see the new 6 myself, but I will when I get a chance. I seriously hope its as good as some people say it is. Nearly everyone said avoid the Altima and get an Accord instead.... funny how I didn't listen to them, and I've loved my Altima ever since I got it 5 months ago. It's very sporty to drive (yes I have the 2.5L too) it's practical, and it's very easy to live with. If the new Mazda6 is seriously so much better, I'll gladly trade my car in and take the loss financially. However, I bet when I go test drive their 4-cyl model, I will come away unimpressed.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    As for the "numerous issues" that the car has in terms of reliability, may I kindly ask what you're talking about? I've seen the few issues that people have experienced, but about 95% of consumers experience no issues if they are properly maintained.

    I know of at least one, and I'm sure it affects more than just 5% of owners.

    There's an outstanding issue with power-operated driver seats in that they "shift" or "squirm" in place when taking tight curves. It's happened to at least one-third of ALL '07-'08 Altima owners polled on a different forum, and it's for real, since I'm on my second set of seat rails, and the problem has reared it's ugly head yet again to my '07 2.5S.

    Nissan apparently knows about the issue, and is currently working on a TSB fix.

    Other than that, my '07 has been reliable, with 21K miles and counting.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Go over to the "Altima problems and solutions thread". There is over a thousand posts there. Those are for all Altimas, not just 07+.

    If you are so happy with your Altima, why would you trade it? Who here is saying that the "Mazda6 is so much better then the Altima"? It is surely not me. Reviews have been positive, and the first owners are happy. It is going to be compared to everything in its segment. Don't get so sensitive if people like it better then the Altima. I, for one, could care less what anyone drives. As I have said over and over, everyone should be happy with what they own. Also, did you happen to see where I stated that the only other car in this segment that I would consider besides a Mazda6 is the Altima????

    This is also a "2009 Mazda6" thread, so be prepared to see some Mazda bias here....
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    As for the "numerous issues" that the car has in terms of reliability, may I kindly ask what you're talking about?

    Think ya got me mixed up with someone else on the above. I remember the posting but it wasn't me.

    I can tell you right now that there is no car in this segment that is enough "better" than any other one to entice anyone to trade a perfectly good 5 month old car for it. I'm not saying the new Mazda6 is better than the Altima because I haven't even driven the new 6 yet and it's been over a year since I drove the Altima. I was just posting the raw numbers from the MT test which showed the new 6 to surpass the Altima in a number of comparables.

    People were making statements based on a half-[non-permissible content removed](IMHO) review that Edmunds did and parroting what it said as fact without the benefit of even seeing the car in person or driving it.

    Oh, and about the premium recommended gas. I realize you don't have to but if you don't you are losing a small portion of your performance and it kind of defeats the pupose to a degree. I have an Infiniti SUV with basically the same engine and we put in midgrade as a comprimise mainly because I'm not really concerned with the power as I am cost right now.
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