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Comments
Mazda implemented the S-plan
Mazda sent me the MAC rebate because I am coming off a lease
Mazda sent me the Private Launch because I provided an e-mail address
Mazda set the 3.9 financing
Mazda will dictate which of these offers I can apply and I will oblige
In the contrary, I am the ideal customer. I am walking into the dealer and presenting him with what I was giving from MAZDA and getting a final number with absolutely no negotiation. He will get reimbursed by Mazda. So what moral virtue am I breaking here? I would like to accept the offer(s) Mazda has given me. I am not expecting a nickel less.
The business model is directly attributed to the car manufacturers themselves and the consumers and salesmen/dealers pay the price. I think your focus is misdirected. There is an obvious reason why car dealers are often not trusted. Consumer behavioral studies repeatedly show this. It's human nature, not rocket science.
When stocks drop as much as they have, jobs loses usual follow as well. So even though their retirement savings should not be a consideration in purchasing a car (as long as the car does not prohibit them from adequately saving), the fear of possibly not being able to make that car payment due to job loss is easily understandable.
Many dealers in my area follow this approach, including Saturn dealers (of coruse) and an entire chain of dealerships which includes a Mazda dealer. They post their firm prices on the cars for all to see. And the sales reps focus on finding the right car for the buyer, not on negotiating the price. And I can attest it makes for a much less stressful buying experience.
So I agree... this is something that is totally under the dealers' control. They are the ones who set the prices at which they will sell their cars. No buyer can force a dealer to sell a Mazda6 at a certain price.
P.S. Many people out there need their 401K/IRA/529 money right now. While the market takes a few years to recover, they are definitely impacted. Not everyone has the luxury of waiting 10-20-30 years to draw that money out of the market. And just because someone is shopping for a car, doesn't make them rich. It means they need a car, period.
This is the only consumer industry where people haggle to the penny. It should not be that way.
Anyway, back to the Mazda6. If you are fortunate to buy now, you can get a great deal.
There is no doubt Acura's has better resale, however, the 09 Mazda6 offers more then a TL in almost every way. It's faster, handles better, has more technology. All it does not have is the funny looking "A" on the grille.
You should never buy a car based on what it's worth 5-6 years from now, because to be honest, no one knows! Look at the MDX's now. They are worth NOTHING. Who fell for the "Acura MDX's will always hold their value" line a few years ago sure got hosed.
I put a deposit down on a S-Silver Touring with Conv, Bose/Moon roof and Rear Spoiler ($29655 MSRP). Total out the door is $27,248 (includes NJ Tax - 7%). I got invoice - 400 (S-plan) and -1000 for Private Launch. I did argue for the additional MAC rebate but the Manager( in 2 different dealers) insisted that it could not be combined with the Private Launch showing me the fine print in the offer stating they are both private offers. This is exactly $3K less (GT w\Bose would have been $1.5K diff) than the best price I got for the TL.
6 has that TL does not
New Model
Signficantly more horse power and torque ('08 Accord has more than '08 TL)
Regular Gas
Push button start
Blind spot monitoring
Rear Spoiler
18 inch wheels
Larger interior and trunk
Much, Much nicer Xenon lights
Luxuries that 6 and TL both have
Blue tooth
Xenon
The TL has that 6 touring does not
Full leather seats
Home Link (GT offers)
Heated seats (GT offers)
Memory seats (GT offers)
auto dimming mirror(GT offers)
A note on the MDX mention. I bought an 05 Pilot over an outgoing '04 MDX and have no regrets.
Just curious, has anyone offered to pay sticker price and you've said, "No, that's too high. I think you should pay me less?" You try to make as much as you can, the consumer tries to pay as little as they can. It's that simple. Unless you are really differentiating yourself, what else is there but price?
Live by free markets; die by free markets. Long live capitalism...
Lastly, I and I'm sure many others are genuinely appreciative of the information you and the other Mazda salesman have shared on this site, but you both have "taken shots" at consumers for trying to make the best deal they can. As far as I can tell, Edmunds is set up for consumers, aka the general public, to make the best car buying decision they can. Isn't there a better place you could vent your frustration about customer behavior?
Back to Mazda6's, I just put a down payment on mine today.
Taken out of context the above would be quite interesting to see.
I had test driven TL sometime last year, but wasn't impressed. When I decided to buy a car last month and after driving the Mazda 6 S GT, I didn't even consider driving the TL again. And recently when I sat in my friend's 08 TL and I could immediately see why they are being so heavily discounted. Don't get me wrong, the TL is a pretty decent car, but when compared to my 6 S GT, the base TL looked and felt seriously out-dated, especially the interior, and to an extent the exterior too. (and that monster of a key ;-) ) In fact I was surprised at subtle things like that the TL doesn't even have the trunk lift strut that the 6 has - I had a 3-series like 10 years ago which had this. Plus the 6 GT has features which aren't even available on the TL. And mainly the 6 was more fun to drive than the TL. I don't know what the resale value of my car will be when I try to sell it, but I wouldn't automatically assume it would be lower than the 08 TL. And I wouldn't buy a car that I don't prefer just because it's resale could be better in the future.
BTW, I have an iphone and bluetooth works fine, though I feel the volume is low (compared to my CX-9) I have to increase the volume to more 30 to be able to hear, which is a very high volume setting.
I resent the "taken shots" comment. If you notice, I have been more then fair in also claiming how bad dealers have been and how they have been the cause of what the business is today, and how some continue to be....besides, some of us dealers need to stand up when we get ripped here! Common, we are out numbered!!
Isn't there a better place you could vent your frustration about customer behavior?
I think you are misunderstanding me here. I am by no means frustrated. I'm simply calling a spade a spade. The car business is a rough, tough, business on both side of the salesman's desk. As I said, there is no need for it, but, it is what it is. So, guess what, you're stuck with me here :P
I just put a down payment on mine today
Now, that's what I'm talkin about! Keep us updated as to how you like it! :shades:
I bought an 05 Pilot over an outgoing '04 MDX
The Pilot is a great CUV. Back then, there was not much of a difference between the two.
Taken out of context the above would be quite interesting to see.
Sadly, that's reality too!
My question is would the S Plan price be the best lowest price one can get, or is it possible to negotiate with the dealer off the sticker price and possibly get a price that is below the invoice price? Also would it be easier to get the best negotiated price if I dealt directly with the Internet Sales Manager versus an in-house sales person? Please share your thoughts as this will be extremely helpful in my purchase.
I really don't think you will have much luck trying to negotiate a below invoice deal either with a salesman or the Internet Sales Manager. Sales staff tend not to like that, and you may get treated like crap.
If you do not have an S-Plan PIN, stating what you just did to me, I know the dealer needs to make some money and I can accept that, but I just want to also save myself as much money as I can and walk away with a good price. , most salesman will just quote you a few hundred over invoice. Some may try and say "we get sticker for these", which is crap. You also might here "these are real popular..." and you may get hit at $1,000 over invoice or something like that.
S-Plan is invoice, and the dealer is compensated by the manufacturer, which is not much. Usually, the salesman is not paid on that compensation.
If you are not S-Plan, you should be able to negotiate at least a $500 over invoice deal. IMO, $500 over on a popular car is fair. If you can get less, then take it. I actually prefer to deal with reasonable people like yourself.
I hope I gave you the answers you are looking for. Don't forget to take advantage of Mazda's 3.9% financing, unless you are paying cash or leasing. Keep us posted as to how you make out!
I thought you have been quite reasonable in your posts and have certainly provided great information to most of us here.
Leading to my question... you mentioned in your post that for one with no S-Plan and no $1,000 launch, $500.00 over invoice is a great offer. What would you advise for me if I want an i GT or i Touring with Conv Pkg and I have the $1,000 launch certificate. Would that change the equation? Thanks.
Perhaps that is because this site is for the general public looking to benefit themselves. I'd hate to see a site for car salesmen seeking to increase their income and a consumer coming online and say, "Salesmen are what is wrong w/ this industry...'calling a spade a spade'...blah, blah, blah." How do you think that would be received?
I think you are misunderstanding me here.
I don't think you need to point out the motivations of car buyers. Consumers desire to keep as much of their hard-earned money as they can. It's pretty much implied and why we are all here.
you're stuck with me here
Awesome! Edmunds.com and Mazda6 enthusiasts are better because of it. I know I've learned a lot from you and welcome any expertise you want to share.
You are really too much. First, you presume to speak for all Mazda dealers and salespeople. Do you think it might be possible that some dealer would entertain a below-invoice offer? Second, why should a prospective buyer be treated "like crap" just because they make a below-invoice offer? Why can't negotiations on a car be kept cordial and professional, e.g. "I'm sorry, but we do need to make a reasonable profit margin on our new cars, so we can't go that low." It's not like the salesperson has never dealt with a buyer looking for the best possible price. Would you think it's OK then for a buyer to treat a salesperson "like crap" because he/she says something like "we get sticker for these" or even, as some dealers do, mark up the car over MSRP?
You like dealing with reasonable buyers. I like dealing with reasonable, professional sales people and sales managers. Fortunately, there are a lot of them out there--salespeople who understand how their profession works and don't take it personally when a buyer makes a low offer.
You are incorrect. You could not be more far off. How many times have I said in my posts that I do generalize and that there are "acceptions" to everything. On the average, dealers do not like when you come in and start talking about getting a vehicle below invoice. That is a fact. Read all I have written about this conversation before you choose to rip apart ONE post of mine.
Do dealers entertain a below invoice deal, YES!!!! Is it the norm, NO!!!! There are always reasons why a deal would do it. Maybe he wants your trade really bad...maybe it's a unit that is not popular, and he wants to move it. You really don't know. Have I done it? Of course! Is it common practice? Hell no! That is how dealers go out of business.
Why can't negotiations on a car be kept cordial and professional,
There is no reason why that can't happen. In fact, I see it every day. However, I have also seen things get nasty, and some sales people take it personal when you take money out of their pocket. The average deal takes at least 2-4 hours of time spent with the customer. To make no money on a deal really sets a lot of them off. Also, CSI studies have shown those customers give the lowest satisfaction scores when they return their surveys. Am I generalizing again? YES!!!! How many times have I stated that I am generalizing, and I always follow it up with "there are always exceptions" Again, a little reading never hurt....
Would you think it's OK then for a buyer to treat a salesperson "like crap" because he/she says something like "we get sticker for these" or even, as some dealers do, mark up the car over MSRP?
I believe in treating every person with respect and courtesy. It's called being a professional. I have before stated, yesterday I believe, that "I never blame the customer for trying to get the car for as little as possible". I do not believe in charging over MSRP, because it leaves a nasty taste in the customers mouth, and a proper sales person / customer relationship is tough to establish after that. I do not think it's OK for a customer to treat a sales person like "crap"for "paying over MSRP", however, I can see why they do. I also believe it is not right for sales people to treat a customer "like crap" either for trying to get the car for a little as possible. But, the fact of the matter is, IT HAPPENS!!!! And it happens A LOT! Which is what I stated before, and you apparently did not understand.
You like dealing with reasonable buyers. I like dealing with reasonable, professional sales people and sales managers. Fortunately, there are a lot of them out there--salespeople who understand how their profession works and don't take it personally when a buyer makes a low offer.
Wow, we agree. Yes, there are a lot of good sales people / managers out there. I wish the industry as a whole was like that. But, it's not. Which is sad. How many times here do we hear horror stories about lousy dealerships? Too many. It's sad, and I can't stand it because it's unprofessional and gives my business and profession a bad name. Lets face it, the car business still has a bad name. All I can do is try and change it in my dealership.
I take it if you were ever to walk into my dealership and buy something, I think we would both be happy, and feel good about the transaction. I think we are the same in that sence.
They are here on Edmunds! It's called "stories from the sales front", and there are a few others. I tend to stay away from there, because it's all BS, IMO. You did neglect to leave out that I said "sales people are to blame too".....BECAUSE WE ARE!! :sick:
Consumers desire to keep as much of their hard-earned money as they can. It's pretty much implied and why we are all here
That, and to learn about the car's and owners opinions of them. You may find this hard to believe, but, I too am a consumer when I'm not at work, and I also try to keep my hard earned money in my pocket.
Believe me, I understand the mind of a consumer. I do like to think of myself as one of the "good guys" in an industry that has a bad name, again, because of our own wrong doing. It's a real challenge to gain peoples trust today.
What do you say we bury this and get back o the Mazda6? :shades:
Well, the $1,000 Private Launch Bonus is free money because it comes from Mazda. It has nothing to do with the dealer. My advise it to negotiate the best deal you can, if you can get better then $500 over, then get it!!! All dealers are different. I think $500 over is fair, but, again, if you can get less, then get it. If you want to offer less, then do so.
Remember, the $1,000 is a rebate, and does not come off the dealers bottom line. Also, you may be subject to sales tax on that rebate depending on your states law. In my state, it is taxed 6%.
I hope I've helped.
Now that is much more reasonable and helpful advice than what you were saying earlier. No one should be afraid to walk into a dealership and try for the lowest price that the dealer will accept--even if it's under invoice. That's up to the dealer to decide, if that is an acceptable price.
This is an example of an S-Plan deal using the $1,000 PLB :
S-Plan $24,000 (hypothetical) + tax + reg + doc fee (if applicable) - $1,000 PLB = OTD price
Make sense?
I'll try to word things a bit more carefully for ya next time
$500 over invoice can be a bit misleading. If the buyer agrees to $500 over invoice price and then is hit with a $499 doc. fee and a $299 advertising fee... then it becomes a not very good deal.
I would present an "out the door offer". Pay invoice, plus $500, plus $100 doc. fee (it's negotiable, I wouldn't pay over $100) then tax title and license. Or, if you all you want to pay is "true" $500 over invoice, pay invoice, plus $500, then tax, title, and lisence.
Also, anyone getting close or over 30 mpg on a straight highway trip with no city driving in the S. I know someone has had to drive over 300+ miles on the highway since owning this car. T
I have never owned a Mazda and last 3 cars have been BMW's and a current TL. Do Mazda' have good or bad resale? It concerns me that the Mazda can be had for under $20k but if you get the S GT with nav, bose and roof you have a $32k MSRP. Is it like buying the most expensive house in the neighborhood type thing to where the lower end Mazda 6's will bring down the resale of the upper end. This is one reason I have stayed with mfr that don't have some many price points on a single model. Thanks
Since a doc fee is not part of the car, or stated on the invoice, $500 over is really $500 over. With Mazda, there is an advertising fee, however, it is billed to the vehicle and the dealer has already paid it. It's not profit for the dealer.
States have different laws regards doc fee's. My state does not allow the doc fee to be negotiated, and it is printed on the purchase order, so everyone pays it. The only thing, legally, in my state one can do for compensation is to have the dealer lower the selling price.
It is very quite. In fact, the design on the Mazda6 was intended to aid in aerodynamics and has a .27 drag coefficient, lowest in class. This also translates into having the least amount of wind noise, and cross wind noise out of any in it's class. The Michelin tires were also specially selected to reduce road noise. However, those tires are not the best for road grip, but, still out handles the competition.
It concerns me that the Mazda can be had for under $20k but if you get the S GT with nav, bose and roof you have a $32k MSRP. Is it like buying the most expensive house in the neighborhood type thing to where the lower end Mazda 6's will bring down the resale of the upper end
Not all Mazda6's will have the same resale value. A s GT is not worth the same as an i Sport. The more you pay, the more it's worth. Mazda has made efforts to increase resale by building a better product, reducing rental fleet, and not allowing fleet vehicles to enter the auction until 12 calendar months from original date of service.
At some point, depending upon how high the doc. fee is, the price of the doc. fee would become "part of the car", or profit added on to the car/dealership. As you say, some states have caps on doc. fees. I've read $55 to $75 in some states. So, generally speaking, any doc. fee over $100 is just raising the price of the car... and the profit to the dealership. Some dealerships charge the outrageous doc. fees because they can get away with it. But, generally speaking, a $75-$100 doc. fee is plenty to cover dealership expenses/profit on a transaction.
Up front, yes, but not over time. In general, the higher priced the car, the faster it depreciates. So a $32k Mazda6 will depreciate more in dollars and maybe even percentage-wise than a low-end Mazda6 in the same timespan. This is especially true comparing four-cylinder cars to the 6's; the fours seem to hold their value a lot better these days with people being more fuel-economy conscious.
That is one reason I prefer to buy the lower-end trim of a car model. You get most of the goodness of the car's design at a much lower price. If I were to spend $32k on a car, it would be on a car designed to sell for $32k at the bottom end, not a car designed to sell for less than $20k, but when equipped with a bigger engine and add-ons priced over $30k.
I got exactly 25 MPG with my s Grand Touring. I hear it should get better?"
Was this stop and go traffic? how fast were you going when you were on the Highway? I'm on the fence right now and not sure if I should get the v6 S models or the 4 cyl i model and MPG is a huge factor in my decision.. i test drove the 4 cyl and it's lacking that push I'm looking for.
Thank you. You certainly have clarified how I could use the $1,000 Private Launch Bonus. I would understand if it would have to be taxed. Others who chimed in surely made a point in that one has to be aware that there could be other fees added in the price.
I've always dealt invoice price-wise (in SOCAL) in many times that I have bought new cars. Usually, the only fees added are TTL and nothing else. Doc fee of about $25.00 as I recall was the only other fee added. So, arriving at OTD would not be as complicated, I guess, as in other states.
Thanks again, everyone...
That is exactly what I was thinking.
I have test driven a 2009 Mazda 6 i GT this weekend and of course fell in love with it. My question is about the mileage. My i 2.5 4 cylinder test car after 100 miles is only showing a 17.5 mpg average. Is this typical for breaking it in? Will it get better? Please give me your mileage numbers on this i engine and the s engine with the 6 cylinder on 2009's only.
Easy driving vs hard driving should only make about a max of 30% difference. That is according to the Motorweek TV show.
I have my 07' Mazda 3 s touring and I HATE to part with it but I LOVE THIS new 6 CAR... except the mileage so far. THANKS!!!
Yes, a higher priced car may have a higher dollar amount in depreciation, but, I have never seen the higher priced model be worth less then the lower end ones, OR have their value effected by the entry level model.
The truth is we have no idea what these will be worth 5-6 years from now, and basing your decision only on that is a mistake. If the 09 Mazda6 i Sport ends up being worth more then a Mazda6 s GT, it would be an industry first. Do you really see that happening?? I don't.
It was extremely quiet. Very little wind noise at all cruising at 75 mph on the PA turnpike. Quieter than the BMW I just traded on the 6s GT.
It also had the guts to pass someone parked in the passing lane doing 60 mph.
I can't help you as far as resale values. I buy the car I like at the time.
2020 Ascent Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Why don't you lease if you know you are in it for 2-3 years?
Honestly, in 2-3 years there won't be that much of a difference in value between the Mazda6 and the other popular cars in this segment, unless Mazda comes out with $3,000 -$4,000 in rebates again. For now, I don't see that happening.
It's funny you say that.....According to Mazda, they specifically chose those tires because they felt they produced little road noise. Go figure? :confuse:
Yeah. I read that somewhere - don't remember if it was on the web site or in the manual.
One brand new bridge I crossed had a textured concrete deck. My wife referred to it as the singing bridge. Certain surfaces do make noise, some are perfectly quiet. On the quiet pavements, it's very quiet. It's the tires. I can live with that though.
2020 Ascent Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
One thing I did enjoy was paying for the regular, 87 octane, grade of gas. The BMW used premium so it's a wash as far as cost is concerned - it actually may be cheaper to run the Mazda.
This is my first Mazda too. I'm finding ways to drive it just to drive it. The more I drive it, the better I like it. I'm starting to not miss my BMW.
2020 Ascent Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
I'd get the V6.
I've owned 4-cyl vehicles in the past, as well as rentals, and I've found that I seem to be on the gas early and often, whether it's in the city or on the highway. As a result, I happen to get poorer mileage with a 4-cyl compared to EPA ratings, and sometimes worse than the V6 ratings! Yeah, I'm a leadfoot...
As for mileage with the V6, I've found to exceed the EPA ratings with my '04 V6, getting about 22-24 MPG in the city, and up to 30 MPG on the highway. IMO it makes a huge difference if you don't have to be heavy on the accelerator, which I tend to be more with the 4-cylinder than the V6.
Is the $400 s-plan rebate still available this month (in Texas)?
Thanks,
homerj31
Try calling a few dealers and see what they say?