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Just one comment on the pricing. Under $500/month for the TL-S is certainly a good deal; however, I think the quotes you got for 328i and G35 were too high. I have been shopping and compare these same vehicles for about two months now. They can certainly be leased for under $500/month as well (with no cap cost reduction).
Enjoy your new ride!
:confuse:
As for the comparison of these two fine machines... I just looked on the net for performance numbers on the new G and the new TL-S. I found a comparison on Road & Track. The G is quicker in 0-60 and 1/4 mile (5.4 and 13.9 respectively compared to 5.7 and 14.3). The TL-S has better grip and was faster in the slalom (.91g vs. .88g and 66.0 vs. 65.5). Braking seemed about even (one was slightly better 60-0 and the other was slightly better 80-0). Just looking at these numbers it seems to me there is no statistically significant difference. I'd have to get the actual results of each test trial to know for sure. My point is that these measures of performance (the common ones used by car magazines and reviewers) show both cars to be great performers and there isn't much difference between them.
You should also realize that those numbers were obtained by professionals using special techniques to tweak the most out of these cars. Like brake torquing a car with an automatic or manipulating the revs before dropping the clutch. Most of the drivers out there gunning it from a stop light are just mashing the pedal. And most of the cars sold out there have an automatic transmission. Especially on ELLPS. So, these tests are not indicative of the real world. You performance enthuisiasts out there don't jump on me for that comment. I agree a manual tranny is much better for getting the most performance out of your ride. But you should concede that most drivers, even those in performance cars, use automatics. I don't own several cars. The one I've got has to accommodate several driving conditions and more than one driver.
The difference between RWD and FWD are just not going to be noticed by 99.99% of drivers unless they can push these cars to their limits on a race track. Who's going to do that? So, don't necessarily let that sway your choice. Test driver both vehicles and pick the one that suits you best.
And one final note...when speaking of the appearance of the car you do all realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? If it weren't then every car from every manufacturer would look the same as they would mold the cars after the standard image of good looking. There is no right or wrong answer here. It's one person's preference to another.
You know another thing that agitates me in car magazine comparison tests and something that is often talked about in these posts...comparing cars like the BMW 3 series vs. the TL or G35. How can they be in the same class? The Bimmer is a compact car and the TL is a mid size sedan. But we can't really compare the TL to a 5 series because it's much more expensive. In fact most TLs sold even are automatics. Only about 10% of TLs made between 2004 and 2006 had manual transmissions. Since the BMW 330i and now the 335i are so rare (about 15-20% of all 3 series sedans) why not compare it to the 325i and 328i instead? With an automatic. It's a more realistic comparison. I think some people like to compare apples to oranges to make themselves feel good about their purchase. Again, it's a personal choice. Some people like small cars, some like big ones, some like fast ones, some prefer comfort and so it goes...
So, even though both cars perform almost equally, some may have a preference one way or the other. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out as we move forward. Will AWD become more popular? Will FWD stay popular, especially in the snow belt? Will RWD become more popular? Who knows? Thank God for CHOICES!
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070228/auto_reliability.html?.v=3&.pf=insurance
After the test drive I went to the Acura dealership and put down my deposit for a 2007 TL w/nav.
Picking it up on Saturday.
One question I did have to anyone out there who owns a TL, what is the deal with the real time nav? Do you have to pay additional for that feature.
Thanks
I would be interested to see these magazine compare the different trims of the same model (e.g. 328i vs 335i, TL vs TL-S, G35 Journey vs Sports, etc.), and let the readers do their own comparison among different makes/models. Everyone agrees that the comparison should be "apple by apple", but the definition of "apple" is to each his own. Some may go by price, some by size, some by HP, and then there are people who compare SUVs with minivans.
As for your plight of getting 328i info I believe Car and Driver did a comparo of ELLPS in 2004/5 and they included the 325i in the test instead of the 330i. You should be able to find it on their website. I know you said you were looking for the 328i but maybe that will be more helpful to you.
Have an '04 TL w/ Nav and that "feature" wasn't introduced to Acura XM radio user's until the RL but from what I understand is yep, like everything else, real-time traffic is an additional pay-for-use feature. But do some research. I hear that feature is not all it's put out to be (i.e. not "real-time" at all!)
Dave
Consumer reports on the other hand is practical and ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. I personally would prefer they stuck with washers and toothbrushes... but when they do dive into higher level mechanics of cars and such. They take a scientific approach and everything has a defined measurement and grading criteria, and all individual grades roll up to a final score. If a car does 0-60 in 5.2 vs the other 5.3 CR doesn't really put much weight into that, it's considered close enough that it's a wash... and with good reason. The readers can SEE for themselves WHY the #1 car is #1 and why the #4 car is #4... And for 99.9% of the population, the CR method is better suited to needs and when your saving $7-11K between the 3-G and the 5-M there's little justification when all the numbers are added up to choose the BMW over the Infiniti in both models.
factfinder, first let me tell you that the two car comparisons you are referring to are from two different magazines. In 2004 and 2005 Car and Driver did the comparisons with ELLPS that put the G35 ahead of the TL but just barely. If you read the reviews they actually gave the nod to the TL over the G in several performance categories including acceleration, grip, and slalom with braking being very close. They even liked the interior of the TL best to nearly all the models and likened it to the limosine of the group in terms of available space. Then in the end they couldn't live with the torque steer or the FWD and decided that while the TL has no major weaknesses it just wasn't for them because of it. I'd hardly call that a thrashing.
The other comparison you referred to between the TL-S, IS350, and new G35 was from Road and Track. So, why would they be the same results. It's a different comparator. Just as Consumer Reports is a different comparator. For what it's worth CR did not rate the TL as a family sedan but rather as an Upscale Sedan. And for the first 3 years of the 3rd gen's existance it was # 1 in it's category. Now, it is #3 to the G35 and ES350. Their term for ELLPS. The rate the Accord number one in the family sedan category.
And finally, did you really drive a 3rd gen TL? Because I cannot comprehend how you can see anything about the Accord in it other than both are FWD.
Drive both vehicles and make your own decision, based on what's important to you, and not what a magazine thinks.
If you put your hand into a plastic baggie and glide it across the surface, it should feel like glass.
If there is any roughness at all, that's surface contamination.
Clay will remove this from your finish.
Basically, you can get a clay kit which will come with clay and a lubrication, although soapy water will also work.
Work the clay into a patty, cover a small surface with lube and lightly rub clay in circular motion to remove contaminants. Work in small areas until car is done.
Between sections, knead clay until it appears clean again.
Once completely dirty, throw away and replace.
Always clean the car before claying, and clean it again once completed.
Clay will also remove wax from the finish, so you will need to wax once the car has been cleaned and dried.
I'd like to clay twice a year, but usually only get to it once, in the Spring... to clean NE's harsh winter crap off of the car.
Here's a link for more info
Meguiar's FAQ
Here's a quick walkthrough:
Clay Magic Tutorial
TL will change soon- sometime next year.
I own an '06 TL and I love it. No problems at all. It's the 3rd Acura product I've owned and I haven't had any issues with any of them. I have seen the new G35 but I have not driven. They've improved the interior but I still find it to be lacking to others in the class. The Honda Accord is sort of a different type of car in my opinion. It's a great car for what it's meant for but if you like performance and a bit of luxury it'll probably fall a bit short of your wants.
Anyways, since I own both a TL and G35, maybe I can chime in here...
TL's interior may look nicer than the G35 on the inside, but I still think the G35's interior is made of better materials. The leather in our TL doesn't feel as soft as the leather in our G35, and the TL's leather doesn't wear as well. It has butt-prints where you sit, and the side bolsters are wrinkling. The dash also is not of uniform color. I have to constantly apply NXT to keep it looking nice, becuase otherwise, it looks like it's fading at different rates across the dash. I've never had that problem in any car...
As for the Nav... At first glance, I thought the TL's nav was better, but I actually like the Nav in our G35 better. Personally, I like the Bird's Eye view, because it lets you see ahead better, and better anticipate turns and such.
However, there are three main reasons I like the Nav in the G35 better.
1.) Points of interest... The Points of interest database in the TL is worthless. At least in the Pacific NW regeion. 99% of the time, when I go to enter something it can't find it, yet it IS in the G35's database. I've had the wife call me on the phone when we're meeting somewhere, and she'll have me punch in the place on my nav, and read out the address to her, so she can punch it in manually.
2.) The touch screen in the TL is nice, but it locks up too easily. Maybe ours is just tempermental, but half the time, when I use the touch screen, it locks up for several seconds at a time. I end up using the joystick, since it never seems to lockup that way.
3.) TL's nav screen looks cool, but I find the G35's nav to be more intuitive. If you want to cancel a destination, you hit the cancel button. Not so on the TL. You have to go into the menu, then cancel route. Likewise, on the G's Nav, it's much easier to add a new waypoint.
Anyways, I love both cars, (that's why we have both), I'm just pointing out that the G35's interior is not as bad as people say it is.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/top-picks-for-2007-4-07/overvie- w/0704_top-picks-2007.htm
It's funny but for the past 3 years when the TL was CRs top pick in the ELLPS category a lot of people dismissed it. Now, they rate the 2nd gen G35 the top pick and suddenly the CR ratings are deemed worthy of following.
Conversely, it's the TL crowd that bragged about this honor for the past 2-3 years and the G has now taken it.
I honestly don't care what any magazine says.
You know the ole saying about opinions...